Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well everyone... I need your support... again... why does my husband (no transitioning yet) constantly pick fights with me??? I stopped asking questions about what he feels or how he sees me at his request to allow fir his mind to settle down. Then he will start to talk about some things but then when I respond with questions or concerns I have... he shuts down and begins to pick a fight with me. To turn the subject off of the subject of his not fully accepting that he is Transgender. He tells me that he wants HRT but that he won't go on them... but he will make comments about wishing he could... The thought is always there (I told him I support him going on them) so why won't he take that step?? It's driving me crazy with all the back and forth...

Hello Miss i am in the same situation as you husband and it took me 49 years to suceed in accepting myself and though on hrt i stil didn't make my mind about transitioning. What i can tell you is that begining HRT brought me a huge relief and the marvel of discovering that i love my wife more than ever, even though i do not desire her and She is not accepting the idea of my transition.
I know it is a very difficult situation for you and a awful lot of pain, and i wish that both of you can sort it out in the future

While you most certianly do not deserve to be on the receiving end of their confussion and internalized transphobia, it is important to understand that they have burried these feelings forever so it is possible their own mind is convincing them to not go through with this. Still, they shouldnt be doing this to you i am sorry to hear :(

We've been conditioned since we were young to see being feminine as weak, and transgendered people as freaks (even though many of them just look like women). He's working through his own demons, he emotionally needs to transition, and rationally wants to shut that emotion off, it's an internal struggle that went on for decades for me (and probably him too). No one is to blame for this, it's just the way it is. He needs to talk about it, but wants to avoid the subject, it's internal conflict at the core.

Quote from: Daniellekai on March 17, 2017, 10:42:26 AM
We've been conditioned since we were young to see being feminine as weak, and transgendered people as freaks (even though many of them just look like women). He's working through his own demons, he emotionally needs to transition, and rationally wants to shut that emotion off, it's an internal struggle that went on for decades for me (and probably him too). No one is to blame for this, it's just the way it is. He needs to talk about it, but wants to avoid the subject, it's internal conflict at the core.

I am decades younger but this rings true to me aswell. Its a sub-conious thing as I have been told by many shrink people lol

Sofhie89, can I ask why you say you love your wife but don't desire her? That confuses me.

I'm not really sure how I would've reacted to "I've been talking to trans people on the internet who all say they're just like you!" either btw...

I never tell him things like that. I ask him questions more about how he feels towards me as I wonder if our relationship and marriage has all been a lie. Especially when I hear of others talk about realizing they don't  desire their SO or have realized the are attracted to the other sex. That really scares me. And the fact that he, even though is struggling in his own way, forgets that he had known about this his whole 42 years where I just found out and am questioning everything. I'm trying to be there for him and accept him and allow him (or give him the "its ok" words) take HRT to help him come into balance. But he won't let me... It's not fair for him to lay all of this on me, have me go through emotional pain (he tells me this but doesn't like me to cry or ask questions), to acting out in dressing and acceptance, to now telling me he doesn't want to transition or even talk about it... but it's ok when he wants to talk or search FB or the internet for the perfect boobs (which he says he will never do). It's like all of a sudden he has to look at everyone's boobs. That bothers me greatly. It's like he's cheating on me. And that devastates me deeply. When I tell him this he says I'm being insecure and gets angry with me. YES IM INSECURE ABOUT ALL OF THIS!!! Why can't he comfort me and be there for me like I do for him???

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 17, 2017, 11:26:27 AM
... Especially when I hear of others talk about realizing they don't  desire their SO or have realized the are attracted to the other sex. That really scares me.

...It's like all of a sudden he has to look at everyone's boobs. That bothers me greatly. It's like he's cheating on me. And that devastates me deeply.

...Why can't he comfort me and be there for me like I do for him???

Just a few thoughts on your very real and valid concerns. I don't know if what I say reflects your husband's thoughts.

For myself (MtF) I have absolutely no desire for men (sorry guys). Switching my sexual attraction is unrelated to my gender identity. Yes I do see people talking about it here, but it's not really connected as far as I know.

I don't know about looking at boobs (moi?). But I do find myself looking at women in a new way, as examples rather than as objects of desire. I am not judging or attracted, just seeing how they dress, walk, talk, and yes body shapes. It's trying to internalize what I see, but not changing how I view my wife (except maybe listening to her speech patterns).

You are deserving of his support. You shouldn't even have to ask, although I myself have been oblivious many times to my wife's needs, and sometimes indeed she has had to ask. It's a guy thing, sad to say. A long learning experience for both of us, which while not complete (never will be), hopefully is far along. I hope you will be able to get some communication flowing, and some comfort and support. You deserve it, and nothing less.
Love
Randy

The obsession he says is that he has none... and would like to have a nice set of perfect DDs... I told him that if he wanted to continue presenting as male to the world but go on HRT to gain some feminine attributes then DDs are not possible especially without augmentation ( and if anyone is getting perfect breasts... it will be me...). So I asked him if having smaller A or B cups would be satisfying and his response was that he would always be wishing for large breasts... I told him that sounds like a guy comment for sexual pleasure rather than to feel feminine... that's what bothers me about the hood obsession. It's like he wants them for sexual pleasure instead of the feeling of being a woman... yes I know that even cis women want larger breasts but on HRT, that's probably not going to happen especially if he wants to be able to conceal them.... But then in his next breath he says that breasts and becoming a woman is a fantasy of his that he will never let happen....

That's a pickle. Although I myself used to find the sexual ''fun'' in seeing me as a female back when I was like 15, I couldn't even get even a little sexual arousal now. Its just too real, and being a woman is something I actually want. He could be a fetishist, or he could just be beating around the bush a bit to not show his heart on his shoulders. Weather it be for kinks or he genuinely wants to be female but is very lost, do not allow yourself to be a target over his lostness. He needs counselling in anycase imo

Twoman,

I can hazard some guesses and I'm going to refer to your partner as she since that feels more natural to me for someone who desires HRT etc, no matter how conflicted.

First I think it's important to remember that she's looking at losing a lot of things she knows in exchange for unknowns. No matter how uncomfortable, the things we know and have learned to live with aren't easy to let go of. Consider people with PTSD or significant violence in their childhood - I'm one of those and the reality is that people adapt to what they have to right down in the areas of the brain that aren't accessible to the rational mind.

Also consider that if change is even a topic then those coping mechanisms must be under heavy strain. The things you describe sound like fairly normal inability to process emotions in a time of stress and certainly aggressive behavior is a normal, if dysfunctional masculine coping mechanism.

He may not know this - I didn't but I certainly considered - if hrt makes him feel better then there may be no going back. I'm 14 months into feminine estrogen levels and it was pretty damned clear at the first month that I would never want to stop that. At about 4 months (well after the point of some permanent physical changes) I tried going off for a month to verify this was the right path and see if maybe I could stop short of reassignment surgery by cycling hormones between estrogen and testosterone.

I have no certainty of what my sexuality will be post-op, I will spend the rest of my life with a non-binary appearance and while I'd give up both testicles to be a passable female, what im actually going to get for that will be a passable vagina.

Before I could get to that point I had to accept that my emotional life would be forever plagued by trying to play the masculine roles that I'd needed to survive that long. Even when you've realized a role doesn't work it can be hard to let go after so many years.

At 4 months on HRT, what were some of your permanent changes?

The main one would be breast development, I don't know if anything else ever becomes permanent.

Quote from: SadieBlake on March 17, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
Twoman,

I can hazard some guesses and I'm going to refer to your partner as she since that feels more natural to me for someone who desires HRT etc, no matter how conflicted.

First I think it's important to remember that she's looking at losing a lot of things she knows in exchange for unknowns. No matter how uncomfortable, the things we know and have learned to live with aren't easy to let go of. Consider people with PTSD or significant violence in their childhood - I'm one of those and the reality is that people adapt to what they have to right down in the areas of the brain that aren't accessible to the rational mind.

Also consider that if change is even a topic then those coping mechanisms must be under heavy strain. The things you describe sound like fairly normal inability to process emotions in a time of stress and certainly aggressive behavior is a normal, if dysfunctional masculine coping mechanism.

He may not know this - I didn't but I certainly considered - if hrt makes him feel better then there may be no going back. I'm 14 months into feminine estrogen levels and it was pretty damned clear at the first month that I would never want to stop that. At about 4 months (well after the point of some permanent physical changes) I tried going off for a month to verify this was the right path and see if maybe I could stop short of reassignment surgery by cycling hormones between estrogen and testosterone.

I have no certainty of what my sexuality will be post-op, I will spend the rest of my life with a non-binary appearance and while I'd give up both testicles to be a passable female, what im actually going to get for that will be a passable vagina.

Before I could get to that point I had to accept that my emotional life would be forever plagued by trying to play the masculine roles that I'd needed to survive that long. Even when you've realized a role doesn't work it can be hard to let go after so many years.

If you have deep deep persoanl questions I must admit SadieBlake is one of the best people to talk to. Her knowledge has helped me, and I am a hard nut to crack.. Ok, im done with brown noseing !

I would like to add my $0.02 in on this, since I have similar self doubts, just recently opened up to my wife about this, have now done anything other than research and dress subtly to how I feel, and I'm only 7 years younger than your husband.

I am for lack of  better words, "A man's man." I am tuff, aggressive when/where I need to be, have always had "a man's" job. I'm former infantry, and I love getting dirty working on cars. That being said, I have longed to be a woman for as long as I can remember. I love the feeling of wearing women's clothing, and I love the feeling I get inside (it feels natural) when I do. I am a hot mess of "WTF is going on, I thought I had suppressed these feelings decades ago", all the way to, "That's it, it's time I stop lying to myself, and embrace what is in me!" Women have complex emotions, men have unique emotions, and those of us in the middle? Well, we're our own group of not knowing how/why we have these emotions, and it is 100% terrifying (for me at least, and from what I've read all around the internet). Your husband sounds exactly like he is in this group. For 42 years he's been "a man", and has only known his success as "a man", and switching that into an unknown factor; it is a fear unlike any I have ever thought of. As a man we know what we want (sexually, and non), but as a woman? I couldn't even assure you that he'd still like mustard (if he even does now) after doing any kind of hrt. But this is a time when he needs you as much, or if not more than you need him; however he is closing the door in your face, and that is not right. I honestly feel that he needs to talk to a professional, and if he is reluctant on that, he can talk to me (I'm faceless, easy going, and I enjoy helping others). I'm still masculine in my nature and appearance. I'm a biker, and a trucker. But I too am on thin ice with my own feelings and wants/desires. I will be talking with someone soon, and I would also like to extend out an invitation to everyone here on my journey, as I make it (I do everything in 5 year plans, and that's my goal).

Sorry I rambled, but again, he sounds like me, and I feel like I'm 5 years old again, and I've lost my mom in the mall, and I don't know what to do.

Sweetie,

That's a tricky one indeed, as you want to know, you want to plan and have some understanding of short -mid term what's going on.

She's asking herself all sorts of questions, and those questions just won't stop. They are there 24/7, and probably as much as she can cope with, and she is trying to help to keep you in the loop when she has an answer in her mind to one small fragment.

She probably doesn't have enough fragments yet, to form a piece of the jigsaw, let alone start to piece them together, and is also probably struggling to clarify the extra questions that are arising from the fragments - being unable to do that can be very frustrating, especially if there is a related stream of questions coming in at the same time. It helps me to think of it like a head of brocolli with each stalk branching to smaller and smaller stalks until you start to see the florets, and ultimately the whole head.

Your relationship is founded on her personality, her behaviour, her values, and a part on her body.  If as an adult, you discovered that you enjoyed painting, and never realised it before, it would be a new facet of your personality - and a new story in your journey together. Gender can be a bit like that - but unlike taking up art, there are cultural weights attached within a relationship, of defined areas that were assumed to be beyond question, but that is an assumption based on the standard hetero-normative model that is held to be ideal, the standard narrative from childhood stories. What is happening now is that those assumptions are being challenged, and together you can chose to define those areas however you choose to.

Male culture can have quite toxic patterns.. I feel like this, so I must man my way out of it - not being able to man it out, and having to accept medication can feel like failure - the first of many male fails, and when someone is uncertain of gender, they want to seek comfort in being able to do things in the way their practised gender would do, and for that not to work is a catastrophe!

Maybe she also feels that if she starts doing anything to help address these feelings, she will not be able to stop at all. Like that feeling of standing at the top of a ski slope in the fog, looking down and it's straight into the mist, so there is no indication of where it goes, or where it stops, it is terrifying.

At the moment, everything is dependant on your partner, and cannot be quickly resolved, and there are lots of areas of unknown and uncertain, and that is frustrating.

There is quite often talk of a need to transition, and that need is a personally expressed desire, it's what starts the whole process off. (Cue terrible allegory)..Whimsical I enjoy cake, to cake could be nice, to cake would be nice, to I'm hungry, I'd like some cake, to I need some cake, and finally, I need some cake now. If we look at your partners journey so far, she knows she enjoys cake, and is unsure if it is possible, espcially as she's though she never enjoyed cake until now.

We are at the start of the journey and we're here for you at every step.

I've rambled on quite a lot, hopefully there is a pearl in here somewhere ;)

Rowan

Thank you everyone. I cried all the way home from work today (I'm hardly ever alone to full out cry). What if he never comes to terms with this? Will our life be like this forever? For someone who feels female inside, he sure doesn't have any female feelings... so it's really hard to wrap my mind around seeing him as female....he's kind of a hard ass... not an emotional bone in him (except maybe anger). Are there any of you that want HRT but say you won't go on it or transition? That's what my husband says. Is it possible that he is bi gender? Or just denying he is a woman? I'm hoping that he will want to stick with the therapist but he really doesn't want to go... I'm pretty sure going to one, to him, is the first step to transitioning. He's afraid (IMO) that if he goes to therapy he will be offered HRT and how it could lead help his thoughts (he won't let me call it dysphoria). And then I he hormones will feel good and want more (this is where my biggest fear comes into play..). I'm afraid he will change his sexual orientation and not desire me anymore). I love the support and that you are all willing to hear me out and h LL answer my questions!

One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT? Could he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 18, 2017, 01:49:06 AM

One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT?

Maybe.  It depends on individual genetics, lifestyle, and body fat, but it is possible.

QuoteCould he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

Yes, although after a while tight shirts don't work so well anymore if one wants to be completely hidden.  Mostly, people will see what they expect.



Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

I'm non-op, and non-transitioning. I have a very lovely partner that I am making my sacrifice for. -she is my world. She knows that, and my children have had it explained to them 'and that's why I think like a girl', walk like one and socially mainly behave like one.

In terms of labelling, I identify here as a neutrois, Demi-girl. I'm more girl than not, but there is a part where I see both sides. In old times, I would have been called two-spirit. In the world outside of these walls, I am viewed with my birth designation. But that often fails, spectacularly. ;) I am glad, because I'm gifted a life of few surprises.

In normal life, I am an alien, I do not fit the male mould, and whilst the female mould would work much better than my current designation,  I would still be denying a part of me that sees both sides. Yet it makes my heart sing when I am misgendered (not often, excepting male fail), as its endorsement that despite the odds, my gender reality is visible whether I try to hide it, or not and I accept that.
Of course there is a fundamental predilection for shoes, and handbags, nail polish and lipstick that I can, in the main satisfy vicariously, or at home in some me time. And yes, I love how my overly short nails look, for that brief time.

Yes, I get dysphoria. Being an alien is very lonesome socially - General folk find me too weird (gender flips around too much for them to handle), and there are physical parts of me that would change in a heartbeat, if I was not in my current situation. Yes I still pray for the grand struggle, to remove the options of not having hrt, or some procedures, yes I have days when I desire to cease to be present, and now I have many days when I know, to the depths of my soul that I am not my birth assigned gender, but I'm not the other either., well not entirely. And dysphoria is worse when I'm with a true alpha-female, somehow I try to be more femme, and end up biting my tongue to keep myself quiet, because nice girls don't do that, do they. Keeping busy helps, and keeping technically challenged helps too.

It is not an easy path, although I am one of the few who is able (at the moment), to keep some kind of truce in place, and it is a truce.

It's through the good folk here that Rowan (my femme name), is given the good air to breathe, to be herself. Yes I'm intrigued to how I came to be - I have a grandmother who was likely given DES, and possibly my mother too (not sure that will ever see the light of day), and as a result have eunuchoid habitus, but I am pleased that I have life here, even if that's limited.

The outcome from suppressing all of this, is sadly that I get really, horribly frightened about specific sorts of acknowledgement, change and control. It does manifest as self harm, although I'm smart(dumb!) enough to have chosen a tool the leaves little if any marks. I get panic attacks for *anything* involving needles and loss of control, and that has landed me in hospital. I get depressed, because I feel "wrong" in myself, and yet what lifts me is love. I love folk and their potential, I want to help them understand that I care and love them for daring to be themselves. I innately desperately need to care, nurture and feed my idiosyncratic family, even if the food that is needed is encouragement, so that in my heart I can have some hope that they do not feel null and void. The unspoken blank page.

In my career, I'm good at being the hard ass, as I see both sides and the social machinations, the underlying agendas, and the compromise needed to bring agreements and progress. I also pump 130% of me into my roles, because the outcome, the success is my gift of love. It is what I can give birth to, inspite of not actually being able to birth a child - and yes I would love to feel the stirring of infinite potential within me, and that makes me sad, every time I see another woman on that great journey that I would love to be able to do myself.

I'd suggest that I'm lesbian - no interest in the males what so ever really, and I doubt that would change even if I do get to crack transition.

Will this change? I don't know.
Maybe. I am certain that I am trans - my life only makes sense if incorrect gender based behaviours are applied. Susan's place and the lovely ladies and gents are my group therapy, I'm sure I would be in a very dark place without them.

(hugs)


Rowan

This sounds like an incredibly hard situation for you.  It seems very likely that he is dealing with incredible amounts of fear.  This includes fear of change, fear of society's reaction, fear of your reaction coupled with insecurity of self, fear of his own desires, and internalized transphobia. 

The fact that he doesn't seem to posses an emotional bone in his body is likely a coping mechanism developed to protect the self from harm.  I am a rational sort of person by nature and rarely showed any emotions beyond anger and depression.  It was terrible, but I knew what to expect from myself and how to cope with these states (though the mechanisms of coping are quite maladaptive).  At the very beginning of my journey I realized that long ago I had locked away and repressed almost all feelings of happiness, joy, and love (possibly anything positive in general) away with anything remotely feminine.  It wasn't an active process that did this, but a constant retreat into rationality as a way to avoid dealing with complex issues.  Emotions are not necessarily rational and it takes a while to accept them rather than go on a cycle of self invalidation.

I discussed HRT with my wife very early on as something I wanted to do.  I was very hopeful that it would allow me to experience all the vibrant emotions I read others experiencing.  I was also incredibly attracted to the idea of feminization.  I was scared to admit that to myself for a while.  I was also scared to be forced to deal with the societal repercussions of said feminization.

The truth of things is that I changed a lot yet I changed less than I imagined.  After 8 months on HRT I do experience a wider range of emotions.  They are not entirely new, but I am not repressing everything so strongly.  I was amazed to realize that most times I feel happy rather than neutral.  I allow myself to feel giddy and playful and all the positive things I had shut off.  I still get angry and I still get depressed, but I bounce back far quicker.  The anger doesn't seem to initiate the cycle of self loathing as much or as intensely.  I am not an emotion trainwreck.  I was a moody SOB at the start, but now not as much.  I have only cried twice (both within the last month). It's kind of nice to be able to actually do it.  I still have plenty of emotional blocks against it and it's not something that happens willy nilly.  I am becoming a better person overall.  Though it is a challenge some days and I do revert to my old behaviors sometimes.

As to the feminization aspect that has been interesting.  I did not have strong male features to begin with.  I was definitively male looking, though.  The changes were subtle.  More rapid than my rational brain wanted.  Deep down they couldn't be rapid enough.  There was a conflict between my rational brain and my hidden desires.  Over the last month I get gendered female by most strangers.  My biggest tell is my voice, which I have not worked on at all.  Even then it only occasionally leads to confused looks.  I am starting to get hips.  My body hair is finally slowing down and getting thinner.  I have developed to a B cup.  They are still growing and it is unclear where they will stop at.  I have good genetics for breast growth apparently.

Before starting all of this there was a strong sexual component to feminization.  That faded a lot.  There are still remnants of it, but for the most part I am just pleased with how my body is developing generally.  I am attracted to women still and it is odd to realize that I look at attractive women with both envy and desire.  I cannot speak for your husband but there may be a bit of that going on.

Socially almost no one has cared about my transition.  This is in central pennsyltucky.  A very red and conservative area.  The only one who seems to have issues with it is one friend.  We have been friends for 20 years.  I do not know why it bothers him so much and he vehemently denies that it does, but he can barely even look at me.  He avoids me a lot and mostly talks to me via phone or text these days.  I realize that he must have some issues he is dealing with, or rather not dealing with.  It is a shame, but nothing can be done since he won't talk to me about it.  Otherwise, everyone is too busy living life to care much about whatever​ I do, even if it is against their beliefs, etc.  That being said I don't force my being trans on anyone.  I care less about pronouns than most and have the blessing to pass.

Another thing to mention so that when thinking of/about myself I do not think of gender at all.  I don't inherently think of myself as man or woman.  I am just me.  Occasionally, societally patterned thoughts about gender pop in there but mostly it's just me.  I do think about some of my actions or mannerisms as being girly or manly sometimes.  It's mostly a thing because then I usually follow it up with, "oh yeah, I am allowed to act "girly" now".

I don't know how much of this spiel will be relevant or useful to you.  I hope some of it will be.  I hope your spouse can find their way to happiness without taking it out on you.  Without knowing him I am at a disadvantage in providing advice.   Mostly, this was just to illustrate one way he might be and to show that things aren't all bad.  He needs to address his issues and having someone to talk through them with can be incredibly helpful.  Stay strong.

Hugs,
Amber

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 17, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
Well everyone... I need your support... again... why does my husband (no transitioning yet) constantly pick fights with me???

Before I dealt with this I was doing the same thing every day.  I had incredible anger and self loathing built up and simply took it out on her at every opportunity.  My anger all revolved around knowing exactly what I was, knowing for years exactly what I wanted, and being too afraid to do anything about it.  So I was constantly in some form of inner turmoil and varying degrees of depression for many years.  Finally, the self generated despair overcame the fear and I began treatment.  Since then, a little over two years ago, the fights between me and my wife have disappeared.  From a daily occurrence to never.

For many years I thought it was her because of this or that reason.  Because the simple step of facing this directly and stopping all the coping and avoidance mechanisms also stopped all our conflicts it's pretty obvious in hindsight exactly what was going on.

Your husband also needs to face this head on and admit to himself what it is he needs to do, whatever that ends up being.  You cannot do that for him.  You have been incredibly supportive thus far and have gone above and beyond what many would have given already.  Your husband will have to resolve the next step.

Two things would be useful without committing him to any specific action.  The first would be some professional counseling.  The second would be coming here and talking to some of us.  There are people here that come from every possible circumstance imaginable.  He would soon find that there is absolutely nothing about his life experience in dealing with this that is in any way unique.  Someone, or more likely, many, have experienced the exact same emotions, have had very similar life experiences, and have been in the exact same place he is right now.  I think that would help.  It did help me anyway; a lot.

But you can only offer these to him as options.  He has to take the action himself.

In the meantime know that you are doing nothing wrong and by what you have written I think you are doing everything right.  The root of all this turmoil is his inner demons.  He can only exorcise them himself.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

QuoteOne quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT? Could he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

FWIW, I nicely fill a 38A bra (no HRT) and it's really not that noticeable, compared to when I don't wear one.  I just wear shirts that don't make my bra obvious.  Incidentally, there are many men with large breasts.  Some have them naturally and some due to medication or other medical issue.  So, compared to many men out there, an "A" wouldn't be all that noticeable.

You have received a good deal of information in this thread but something hasn't been touched on so far. There will be a time not far in the future that both of you will have to face for your own well being. The decision will be a gender therapist, couples consoling or a divorce. Your husbands refusal to face the issues could be tolerated but taking the discomfort out on you is abuse and should not be tolerated. I understand wanting to preserve the marriage but don't wait to long before making the decision because this about both of you.

Quote from: Dena on March 18, 2017, 12:02:25 PM
You have received a good deal of information in this thread but something hasn't been touched on so far. There will be a time not far in the future that both of you will have to face for your own well being. The decision will be a gender therapist, couples consoling or a divorce. Your husbands refusal to face the issues could be tolerated but taking the discomfort out on you is abuse and should not be tolerated. I understand wanting to preserve the marriage but don't wait to long before making the decision because this about both of you.

Ditto

I'm glad you can see it as a form of emotional abuse. It's really hard to be supportive when his way of dealing with it is to constantly pick fights with me. I'm hoping that once we start counseling on the 28th that he will begin to settle down and learn to deal with things in a better way. But at the same time he keeps saying that he may go to one or two sessions because he doesn't like counseling. Which is funny because he's never done counseling before so how would he know? We have tried over the 17 years that we've been together to go to counseling and he makes it through one session. Of course the counseling sessions were just marriage counseling because there's always been something going on that I just couldn't put my finger on.

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 17, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
Well everyone... I need your support... again... why does my husband (no transitioning yet) constantly pick fights with me??? I stopped asking questions about what he feels or how he sees me at his request to allow fir his mind to settle down. Then he will start to talk about some things but then when I respond with questions or concerns I have... he shuts down and begins to pick a fight with me. To turn the subject off of the subject of his not fully accepting that he is Transgender. He tells me that he wants HRT but that he won't go on them... but he will make comments about wishing he could... The thought is always there (I told him I support him going on them) so why won't he take that step?? It's driving me crazy with all the back and forth...

Hi Twoman44,
There probably isn't slot I can say here that hasn't already been said so I will give you my experience incase that is helpful.

I am 44 mtf. I say mtf but I still consider myself a guy. I have been in therapy for around 18 months and have experienced pretty much everything others have described here, the denial, self loathing, unimaginable confusion, and the list goes on.

I haven't been picking fights with my wife, but I have been causing her much pain in other ways. I would have frequent meltdowns where I would get angry at myself for not being able to contain these feelings, this anger and frustration ends up in emails I send to my therapist where I accuse her of not doing her job properly and insisting that she diagnose me with something, any diagnosis would do as long as it's not transgender. I know my wife reads these emails and it hurts her deeply to know I am in such torment. I get stuck in this vicious cycle of accepting myself one minute to hating myself the next. During these cycles I would try and purge all things trans from my life. I have deleted my account here at Susan's 3 times so far. My therapist told me I am in the middle of an emotional breakdown. For me, these trans feelings hit me as a bit of a surprise a couple of years ago. After all the therapy I have had, I now know that there were clues as to my being trans right back to my childhood, but these memories were locked and buried away in the deepest, darkest corners of my mind. Even until very recently, I still had trouble acknowledging that these memories ever existed and I would try and convince myself that I am not trans.

Many people on this forum have suggested to me to just try HRT to see how it goes. I was told that the psychological effects come long before any physical changes, so it is a good way to answer many questions and know if it is the right path for me. Well being as stubborn as I am, I have resisted taking that advice, I have not yet started HRT and still find myself in this terrible cycle. My wife cannot stand seeing me hurt this way, and I have been to blinded by my own stubbornness to see that my actions are hurting her.

It got to the point where my therapist suggested (very strongly!) that I should consider trying HRT. My wife and I had a joint couples session and both my wife and therapist think I should be trying HRT. I have an appointment in May with an endocrinologist. I can certainly understand your husband saying he wants HRT but us hesitant to start. I am terrified about going on hormones. Part of me hopes they won't work on me to prove I was right all along that I am not trans. Nobody wants to be trans, especially when it is discovered later in life. I am also looking forward to finding an answer one way or another. Living the way I have is pure hell.

I can understand his anger and frustration but taking it out on you is never a good idea, especially after all the support you are providing.

I don't know what advice I can offer other than sharing part of my story. The people on this forum are amazing. Everybody wants to help because we all, in our own individual ways, have experienced/are experiencing similar hurdles. If he hasn't already, coming onto this forum could be very helpful for him. Also, a good therapist can be a lifesaver.

I hope you can both find some peace without damaging your marriage.

Feel free to message me if you like, or your husband can message me too.

Jessie

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 18, 2017, 12:56:35 PM
We have tried over the 17 years that we've been together to go to counseling and he makes it through one session.

Counseling is inherently uncomfortable for most males. My wife "dragged" me to couples counseling a couple times over the years, once with a female, and once with a male. It was always good, and we got some useful changes in direction out of both. No major issues, more of a fine tuning thing.

But I almost always wound up crying, which may not happen with everyone, but it takes some getting used to as a man. I suppose I've always been more prone to crying than most men (I cry in movies) but always tried to deny/hide it. Just so you know, that will be uncomfortable for him. I wouldn't comment. Merely hand over the tissue box, or preposition it near him.

When we saw the male therapist, my wife felt like he took "my" side and she didn't feel very supported. Maybe I felt the same way with the female, but being new to it, it didn't really occur to me.

Quote from: Dena on March 18, 2017, 12:02:25 PM
You have received a good deal of information in this thread but something hasn't been touched on so far. There will be a time not far in the future that both of you will have to face for your own well being. The decision will be a gender therapist, couples consoling or a divorce. Your husbands refusal to face the issues could be tolerated but taking the discomfort out on you is abuse and should not be tolerated. I understand wanting to preserve the marriage but don't wait to long before making the decision because this about both of you.

It's agree here and IF he is not willing to go, you should at least. I would encourage you to find one anyway as it could help you help your husband.

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 18, 2017, 01:49:06 AM
Thank you everyone. I cried all the way home from work today (I'm hardly ever alone to full out cry). What if he never comes to terms with this? Will our life be like this forever? For someone who feels female inside, he sure doesn't have any female feelings... so it's really hard to wrap my mind around seeing him as female....he's kind of a hard ass... not an emotional bone in him (except maybe anger). Are there any of you that want HRT but say you won't go on it or transition? That's what my husband says. Is it possible that he is bi gender? Or just denying he is a woman? I'm hoping that he will want to stick with the therapist but he really doesn't want to go... I'm pretty sure going to one, to him, is the first step to transitioning. He's afraid (IMO) that if he goes to therapy he will be offered HRT and how it could lead help his thoughts (he won't let me call it dysphoria). And then I he hormones will feel good and want more (this is where my biggest fear comes into play..). I'm afraid he will change his sexual orientation and not desire me anymore). I love the support and that you are all willing to hear me out and h LL answer my questions!

One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT? Could he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

I myself haven't cried in 17 years. The hardass demeanour is to hide the underlying desires and self. I'd just let him do his thing to be honest. If he doesn't want to go to therapy, so be it, same if he does. I'd say support him either way while making clear that starting fights to take it out on the family, isn't gonna work. That ain't how we do it. 

Gains made on the body from MTF HRT from what I've seen online, doesn't look like much in all honesty.

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 18, 2017, 01:49:06 AM
One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT? Could he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

I went from zero to full B cups in 6 months.  Hiding them would not really be an option for me.  Not that I would ever want to. Quite the opposite in fact.

TwoWoman; I am a bit late coming in to this thread. A lot has been said here to smoke your head even more then your husband's dropping of the T-Bomb.

The apparent reality on the ground, from my wife's perspective, is that I became an "Angry" person in the years prior to me finally doing something about being trans. She knew of my gender issues from about day 1, even began staying around the house during my monthly or so escapes from maleness spending the day cross-dressed. But as life marched on and the guilt of me stealing what little time she had with John, and especially me relying on distractions and diversions to "Quiet the noise", like burying myself more and more into work and finding a thousand things around the house that needed doing. I see now how during all that time I slowly changed into some lifeless, soulless Thing that only existed to do what was expected. No hopes, no wishes, no dreams, bar one given up on long long ago.

Eight years ago my world crashed around me. After much reflection I reasoned that the root cause was how I was NOT handling being TG.  By the time I was returning home from my third ever TG Support group meeting I knew I needed to be there, and that it was almost too late to tell my wife what was up. The big problem is "talking", especially about such deep emotional things like this, was not something I could do. But I knew I needed to come up to speed fast if I wanted to do all I can to keep us together in spite of the total betrayal of some 30 plus years I was going to drop on her. BTW-Betrayal is a BIG hot button issue for her and for all these years we both had believed I was "Just a CD".

During our many difficult, deeply emotional talks in the ensuing months to years there might be "some" anger. During such times one has to expect that the reptilian brain will let loose, bypassing the normal filters. But we both also knew to listen to the message, not the words. I don't get this sort of vibe from your postings. It seems more of a "I don't to talk about it", shutting you down response. Even when you try the playing 20 questions route to find out what is going on inside his head.

If anything like most of us, a lot of what is going on is Shame & Guilt. We spent a lifetime living up to an image, perhaps even a Hollywood big screen version of that image. And now, you failed yourself big time by just giving in to entertaining the thought you might be trans. You feel even worse admitting to a loved one. So fight back even harder. I suppressed these emotions before, I can do it again. Or, the opposite response, full speed ahead, but.... don't admit it to anyone, even yourself. Or any number of other responses. All fueled by my two oldest friends, Shame & Guilt.

Will HRT change him? It depends. May not do a damn thing, totally depress him, or..... I relied on my on/off low dose HRT several times throughout the decades for the very badly needed brain-reset. Always stopping when the hormones eventually came into conflict with "The Prime Directive" of being a normal guy. Nothing says abnormal guy better then knowing things are starting to take a hit below the belt.

What physical affects HRT will have varies greatly and age is also a major factor. After about 3-4 years this old dinosaur has an almost for real B cup. Between my age, emotional state, and HRT, I suspect typical male penetrative sex is impossible. But the chances of that happening with my somewhat supportive wife is slim to none between "I cannot think of you as a husband with breasts nicer then mine" as well as her physical limitations.

While the physical aspects of HRT does freak out my wife, the amount of personal growth I have been able to achieve, how much of a.... not really different, a grown up younger version of me of some 40 years ago, the sort of person she can love even more then back when both of our hormones were in sync and raging.

All of the above only happens when BOTH parties to this partnership called marriage cooperate and compromise for your shared future dreams as well as what is needed today. Even then, how the other feels or does we have no control over. My wife and I have idea what the real future for us will look like. Her greatest fear is as learn more and more who I am, a male love interest may arise. I sort of fear it too as it is all too real of a possibility. A highly unlikely one today since I need to live and present primarily as male. (see compromises above). I may want to live full or part time as female, luckily I mostly do not need to. It's one day at a time for us both

Quote from: JoanneB on March 19, 2017, 07:40:18 AM
TwoWoman; I am a bit late coming in to this thread. A lot has been said here to smoke your head even more then your husband's dropping of the T-Bomb.

The apparent reality on the ground, from my wife's perspective, is that I became an "Angry" person in the years prior to me finally doing something about being trans. She knew of my gender issues from about day 1, even began staying around the house during my monthly or so escapes from maleness spending the day cross-dressed. But as life marched on and the guilt of me stealing what little time she had with John, and especially me relying on distractions and diversions to "Quiet the noise", like burying myself more and more into work and finding a thousand things around the house that needed doing. I see now how during all that time I slowly changed into some lifeless, soulless Thing that only existed to do what was expected. No hopes, no wishes, no dreams, bar one given up on long long ago.

Eight years ago my world crashed around me. After much reflection I reasoned that the root cause was how I was NOT handling being TG.  By the time I was returning home from my third ever TG Support group meeting I knew I needed to be there, and that it was almost too late to tell my wife what was up. The big problem is "talking", especially about such deep emotional things like this, was not something I could do. But I knew I needed to come up to speed fast if I wanted to do all I can to keep us together in spite of the total betrayal of some 30 plus years I was going to drop on her. BTW-Betrayal is a BIG hot button issue for her and for all these years we both had believed I was "Just a CD".

During our many difficult, deeply emotional talks in the ensuing months to years there might be "some" anger. During such times one has to expect that the reptilian brain will let loose, bypassing the normal filters. But we both also knew to listen to the message, not the words. I don't get this sort of vibe from your postings. It seems more of a "I don't to talk about it", shutting you down response. Even when you try the playing 20 questions route to find out what is going on inside his head.

If anything like most of us, a lot of what is going on is Shame & Guilt. We spent a lifetime living up to an image, perhaps even a Hollywood big screen version of that image. And now, you failed yourself big time by just giving in to entertaining the thought you might be trans. You feel even worse admitting to a loved one. So fight back even harder. I suppressed these emotions before, I can do it again. Or, the opposite response, full speed ahead, but.... don't admit it to anyone, even yourself. Or any number of other responses. All fueled by my two oldest friends, Shame & Guilt.

Will HRT change him? It depends. May not do a damn thing, totally depress him, or..... I relied on my on/off low dose HRT several times throughout the decades for the very badly needed brain-reset. Always stopping when the hormones eventually came into conflict with "The Prime Directive" of being a normal guy. Nothing says abnormal guy better then knowing things are starting to take a hit below the belt.

What physical affects HRT will have varies greatly and age is also a major factor. After about 3-4 years this old dinosaur has an almost for real B cup. Between my age, emotional state, and HRT, I suspect typical male penetrative sex is impossible. But the chances of that happening with my somewhat supportive wife is slim to none between "I cannot think of you as a husband with breasts nicer then mine" as well as her physical limitations.

While the physical aspects of HRT does freak out my wife, the amount of personal growth I have been able to achieve, how much of a.... not really different, a grown up younger version of me of some 40 years ago, the sort of person she can love even more then back when both of our hormones were in sync and raging.

All of the above only happens when BOTH parties to this partnership called marriage cooperate and compromise for your shared future dreams as well as what is needed today. Even then, how the other feels or does we have no control over. My wife and I have idea what the real future for us will look like. Her greatest fear is as learn more and more who I am, a male love interest may arise. I sort of fear it too as it is all too real of a possibility. A highly unlikely one today since I need to live and present primarily as male. (see compromises above). I may want to live full or part time as female, luckily I mostly do not need to. It's one day at a time for us both

I have similar experience without the hrt. The thing is, we think we can beat this when young, so back then, we even think we're just crossdressers or hoping that. Jennifer Finney Boylan says she thought love would cure her and I thought so too. Telling my wife to be now wife of 23 years from nearly the beginning was part of that and a big step in that I never admitted that to anyone. To me that's a high level of trust and love. Sometimes it's not enough. I'm still working through it, have a new gender therapist and we'll see. What I call say is that I can't do the lie anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 17, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Sofhie89, can I ask why you say you love your wife but don't desire her? That confuses me.

Well, the hrt reduces the desire of having sex with my wife to almost zero.
But i stil want the best, for her, i still want to care for her, i still want to be the father of our kids, i still want to attend her needs, this why i say i love her.
Furthermore i daresay that not desiring her enables me to see her with untroubled eyes how precious she is to me! isn't that tragic, as the path i am folowing will almost certainly end with a separation.
Never think that he tries transitioning because of problems he has with you, the only problem he has is with himself. Unfortunately nothing you did or didn't cause that problem, eventhough it is somtimes tempting to reject the fault on your partner, as i stupidly did more than once.

Twoman it took some time for my sex drive to come back and it's not the same as before but we both like it better. Most of my rl trans friends are sexually interested and active