Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: CosmicJoke on March 31, 2017, 05:45:22 PM Return to Full Version
Title: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: CosmicJoke on March 31, 2017, 05:45:22 PM
Post by: CosmicJoke on March 31, 2017, 05:45:22 PM
I thought this was a good question, so I decided to ask. I think that most of us as transgender people really do want to fit into the mold for masculinity or femininity the best we possibly can in order to be taken for the gender we transitioned to or want to seen as.
There's certain things I used to do constantly like shaving my legs and underarms, or only ever going out of the house with some makeup on. As time went on, I found alot of it to be very tiresome and just not necessary, so I let some of that stuff go now.
I was wondering how many other transgender people here are going through or went through the same kind of thing?
There's certain things I used to do constantly like shaving my legs and underarms, or only ever going out of the house with some makeup on. As time went on, I found alot of it to be very tiresome and just not necessary, so I let some of that stuff go now.
I was wondering how many other transgender people here are going through or went through the same kind of thing?
Title: Re: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: Denise on March 31, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Post by: Denise on March 31, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Interesting question. What I have noticed is I don't need to "dress up". Jeans and a sweatshirt is fine without jewelry to walk around town during the day.
Title: Re: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: LizK on March 31, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
Post by: LizK on March 31, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
I learnt a hard but very useful lesson the other day. My avatar Picture is with makeup and just having had my hair styled a few hour prior...so not looking too bad. maybe just passing in the right light....
I had an intense Electrolysis session on Tuesday after getting my name change letter from my Psych. The following day when I looked in the mirror I had bruises and scabs galore as normal after Electrolysis. There is no way I was going to put makeup on that mess but I really wanted to get my name change sorted out...it was only a Medicare office after all. Pair of Jeans, nice top, nice long cardigan...very casual normal wear for any woman going out to do chores on a coldish day. I looked in the mirror...no makeup...I can't go out looking like that....why not...because you look like a man....noooo you think you look like a man....I was not convinced. Off I went though and what started out to be a one stop 5 minute show some ID and out again turned into full day of talking to people, including animated discussions.
Whilst navigating the difficulties I was having I forgot all about my appearance, no makeup etc. I was treated nicely and with politeness. No one openly yelled or abused me. I did catch some stares...but I couldn't even tell you now what the people looked like who stared at me I don't remember. Why all this angst? I wasn't wearing makeup...now to me I would never have considered it possible to go anywhere without it...but women do every day of their lives. Our Expectations and standards seem to way harder on ourselves than they need to be.
I am not immune but I have learnt that my own expectations are far more critical of me than the rest of society. I will go out without makeup, appropriately dressed for my activity and no one is going to tell me I am not a woman...that is just plain stupid...when you look at my overall appearance, the hair, the nail polish, the jewellery, the clothes, the shoes the handbag it screams woman and the public pick up on that and they may stare but my experience tells me most people are decent human beings and treat me the same.
Liz
I had an intense Electrolysis session on Tuesday after getting my name change letter from my Psych. The following day when I looked in the mirror I had bruises and scabs galore as normal after Electrolysis. There is no way I was going to put makeup on that mess but I really wanted to get my name change sorted out...it was only a Medicare office after all. Pair of Jeans, nice top, nice long cardigan...very casual normal wear for any woman going out to do chores on a coldish day. I looked in the mirror...no makeup...I can't go out looking like that....why not...because you look like a man....noooo you think you look like a man....I was not convinced. Off I went though and what started out to be a one stop 5 minute show some ID and out again turned into full day of talking to people, including animated discussions.
Whilst navigating the difficulties I was having I forgot all about my appearance, no makeup etc. I was treated nicely and with politeness. No one openly yelled or abused me. I did catch some stares...but I couldn't even tell you now what the people looked like who stared at me I don't remember. Why all this angst? I wasn't wearing makeup...now to me I would never have considered it possible to go anywhere without it...but women do every day of their lives. Our Expectations and standards seem to way harder on ourselves than they need to be.
I am not immune but I have learnt that my own expectations are far more critical of me than the rest of society. I will go out without makeup, appropriately dressed for my activity and no one is going to tell me I am not a woman...that is just plain stupid...when you look at my overall appearance, the hair, the nail polish, the jewellery, the clothes, the shoes the handbag it screams woman and the public pick up on that and they may stare but my experience tells me most people are decent human beings and treat me the same.
Liz
Title: Re: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: KathyLauren on March 31, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
Post by: KathyLauren on March 31, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
It's not about conforming to anything. It's about being myself.
I would guess that 90% of who I see myself to be does conform to society's expectation of women. But that's not why I do it. I enjoy getting dressed up, wearing a bit of bling, and looking good. I may be a 'weird old lady', to use Michelle_P's expression, but I'll have a good time doing it.
And if I've got a three-day growth of beard because I have electrolysis coming up, well that's part of being a trans woman, and that's part of who I am, too. A couple of weeks ago, I was in that situation, and I went to a restaurant for lunch like that without giving it a second thought.
I recently spent almost a full day in the city as myself, with only one appointment and a bunch of time to kill. It felt wonderful to be myself, to not have to carry around the suit of armour that I have worn all my life. I noticed people 'clocking' me a couple of times, and I didn't care. Their expectations are their business (unless they inflict them on me, which none did). I just felt good that I got to be me and to be free.
Why do I mostly conform? Meh. Who cares? I don't. I've spent at least two thirds of my life as someone else. I am just happy to be me.
I would guess that 90% of who I see myself to be does conform to society's expectation of women. But that's not why I do it. I enjoy getting dressed up, wearing a bit of bling, and looking good. I may be a 'weird old lady', to use Michelle_P's expression, but I'll have a good time doing it.
And if I've got a three-day growth of beard because I have electrolysis coming up, well that's part of being a trans woman, and that's part of who I am, too. A couple of weeks ago, I was in that situation, and I went to a restaurant for lunch like that without giving it a second thought.
I recently spent almost a full day in the city as myself, with only one appointment and a bunch of time to kill. It felt wonderful to be myself, to not have to carry around the suit of armour that I have worn all my life. I noticed people 'clocking' me a couple of times, and I didn't care. Their expectations are their business (unless they inflict them on me, which none did). I just felt good that I got to be me and to be free.
Why do I mostly conform? Meh. Who cares? I don't. I've spent at least two thirds of my life as someone else. I am just happy to be me.
Title: Re: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: Kylo on March 31, 2017, 07:57:51 PM
Post by: Kylo on March 31, 2017, 07:57:51 PM
I work out, but more out of a curiosity toward what my body can/will do, I have no intention of showing it off. Other than that other people's ideas about what masculinity is just kind of amuses me. So many contradictory ideas about what it is. There's a general sense of the masculine I do tend to stick with, I gravitate to it anyway without much effort - it would be difficult if I felt the need to be male but had an aversion to things male and thankfully I don't.
The rest is just some natural personal preference I always seem to have had. Always had a preference for plainer, darker colored clothes and and aversion to things frilly. Always had a desire to be physically strong rather than weak. Always had messy hair. Honestly these things and others just always were, I barely thought about them until these sorts of questions come up and then I realize why it's easy to sit and grow body hair and not care, or why I never bothered putting make-up on in my life. So in that sense I guess I could be 'conforming' to society's concepts, but not because I think I have to. I shaved my face long before I even knew I had gender issues to resolve. I worked out with my father's weights, too. Didn't even think about it, or that I was not conforming back then. If anyone ever did point it out, it made no impression. And now it's not much different. Of course I want to see how masculine I can appear in the mirror out of great curiosity, as I might finally get along with my reflection. But I don't sweat it.
Frankly whatever society thinks or wants isn't top of my list of priorities...
The rest is just some natural personal preference I always seem to have had. Always had a preference for plainer, darker colored clothes and and aversion to things frilly. Always had a desire to be physically strong rather than weak. Always had messy hair. Honestly these things and others just always were, I barely thought about them until these sorts of questions come up and then I realize why it's easy to sit and grow body hair and not care, or why I never bothered putting make-up on in my life. So in that sense I guess I could be 'conforming' to society's concepts, but not because I think I have to. I shaved my face long before I even knew I had gender issues to resolve. I worked out with my father's weights, too. Didn't even think about it, or that I was not conforming back then. If anyone ever did point it out, it made no impression. And now it's not much different. Of course I want to see how masculine I can appear in the mirror out of great curiosity, as I might finally get along with my reflection. But I don't sweat it.
Frankly whatever society thinks or wants isn't top of my list of priorities...
Title: Re: How much of society's concept for your gender are you conforming to?
Post by: Michelle_P on March 31, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
Post by: Michelle_P on March 31, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
This is a pretty good question.
In my case, I identify very strongly as feminine. It's a bit of a surprise to me, but that is what I find when I dropped the armor of the male persona. I also identify as a professional, albeit retired. Orientation-wise, I am sexually and romantically attracted to women, and not at all towards men.
Personality-wise, I find that I am more extrovert than the old male persona was by quite a bit. I'm also pretty much 'out', and do not deny my being a transgender person. Oh, I don't wear blue, pink, and white bunting everywhere, but if the subject comes up in friendly conversation, "Why, yes, I am transgender. Now, which show time works better for you? ..." I try to put my best appropriate presentation out when in public. I feel that as a transgender person who may be read as such, I am in some ways reflecting on and representing our community. If I'm going to be clocked, I'd rather be clocked as a classy broad than someone wildly mis-dressed for the occasion.
All these things inform my social gender presentation.
Once I stopped suppressing that core identity, some things about basic movement and posture came very easily and quickly. I don't know if these are intrinsic or stuff I absorbed early in childhood, but it is there and I certainly express it. I have decades of catching up to do regarding the social behaviors and presentation we would normally learn growing up in a gender role matching our true selves, but I do intend to learn these so I can have the best apropriate presentation.
This means that when I am going out walking through our shopping district, I wear what most better-presenting women wear. I do my makeup, and I try to look my appropriate best. when I had to go into the hospital today as a patient, I followed the guidelines. No fragrances, makeup or jewelry, simple loose-fitting clothing I could change quickly, and so on. I made my appearance as neat, clean, and crisp as I could under the guidelines. When I'm going out to do lectures, I'm generally wearing a blazer and either a light turtleneck or coordinating light scarf on my neck, flared slacks, and reasonable shoes for spending a couple hours standing and talking.
I am working hard on my voice, discreetly checking pitch (phone app and/or a little vocal trick, "Ummm/UhHuh" before speaking to set pitch), and always trying to talk at pitch and with good prosody. Everyone gets 'the voice', even folks who knew me before I came out or strictly within the trans community. I do not want to form a bad habit of 'slipping' when I think I can get away with it.
I try to stay fit, and watch my weight and figure. I'll live longer and/or better this way.
I feel that I am doing much of this for myself, since matching society's concept of gender presentation matches my goal of getting my presentation fully in line with my identity. This is certainly related to my age and old concepts I was raised with, but that is common among many folks near my age.
Who knows, someday I might get past Weird Old Lady and become the classy older woman other ladies of my age and orientation seek out. A gal's gotta have dreams, right? 😼
In my case, I identify very strongly as feminine. It's a bit of a surprise to me, but that is what I find when I dropped the armor of the male persona. I also identify as a professional, albeit retired. Orientation-wise, I am sexually and romantically attracted to women, and not at all towards men.
Personality-wise, I find that I am more extrovert than the old male persona was by quite a bit. I'm also pretty much 'out', and do not deny my being a transgender person. Oh, I don't wear blue, pink, and white bunting everywhere, but if the subject comes up in friendly conversation, "Why, yes, I am transgender. Now, which show time works better for you? ..." I try to put my best appropriate presentation out when in public. I feel that as a transgender person who may be read as such, I am in some ways reflecting on and representing our community. If I'm going to be clocked, I'd rather be clocked as a classy broad than someone wildly mis-dressed for the occasion.
All these things inform my social gender presentation.
Once I stopped suppressing that core identity, some things about basic movement and posture came very easily and quickly. I don't know if these are intrinsic or stuff I absorbed early in childhood, but it is there and I certainly express it. I have decades of catching up to do regarding the social behaviors and presentation we would normally learn growing up in a gender role matching our true selves, but I do intend to learn these so I can have the best apropriate presentation.
This means that when I am going out walking through our shopping district, I wear what most better-presenting women wear. I do my makeup, and I try to look my appropriate best. when I had to go into the hospital today as a patient, I followed the guidelines. No fragrances, makeup or jewelry, simple loose-fitting clothing I could change quickly, and so on. I made my appearance as neat, clean, and crisp as I could under the guidelines. When I'm going out to do lectures, I'm generally wearing a blazer and either a light turtleneck or coordinating light scarf on my neck, flared slacks, and reasonable shoes for spending a couple hours standing and talking.
I am working hard on my voice, discreetly checking pitch (phone app and/or a little vocal trick, "Ummm/UhHuh" before speaking to set pitch), and always trying to talk at pitch and with good prosody. Everyone gets 'the voice', even folks who knew me before I came out or strictly within the trans community. I do not want to form a bad habit of 'slipping' when I think I can get away with it.
I try to stay fit, and watch my weight and figure. I'll live longer and/or better this way.
I feel that I am doing much of this for myself, since matching society's concept of gender presentation matches my goal of getting my presentation fully in line with my identity. This is certainly related to my age and old concepts I was raised with, but that is common among many folks near my age.
Who knows, someday I might get past Weird Old Lady and become the classy older woman other ladies of my age and orientation seek out. A gal's gotta have dreams, right? 😼