Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I always tend to read the opinions of people who hold ideals opposite of mine, be it political, religious, and especially now gender.  It always ruins my mood, and consumes precious hours out of the day.  It is like I am a glutton for punishment.  I do it, because I have anxiety issues and want to know what people are thinking behind the veil of civil behavior.  I've always thought it important to know these things, but now they just get in the way.

And oh my, how it leaves nasty marks on my psyche.  There are times, I would just like to abandon all of humanity, live out in a cabin in the woods and never see another face again!  It leaves me depressed, and even more anxious, yet like a moth to the flame I always end up flying face first into a lot of hurt.

To that end, I've finally decided to start to get a few addons for chrome to block sites, and youtube channels.  I feel I am betraying myself doing so, shutting off a lot of the world out there, feeding a delusion of sorts - but the alternative is to live a life of depression and fear. 

People genuinely frighten me, they always have.  The Internet is a place where the monsters come crawling from under your bed, to snatch you by the leg and draw you into the abyss!  And being transsexual, there is a lot of hate that I read online.  I would grow a thicker skin, but truth be told I am quite the sensitive person who has always had a hard time with hateful people.

I swear, there have been many nights where I lay staring at the ceiling, living in a state of anxiety, sweating, breathing horribly and remaining inbetween being awake and in a nightmare. 

I love this forum, but it is not like I have a lot to contribute here, outside of posting a question now and then, advice is not my strong suit and I often feel like more of a burden than anything.  What I do have is my heart though, and with that said I would like to give all of you a virtual hug :)

(((((hug)))))

If any of you feel the same way I do, have that same anxiety I do, let it be known to you that you are not alone. 

There are people out there on the internet with an axe to grind. Dont put your head on the chopping block.

I have been there too, and all it did was sometimes make me feel so bad i would feel ill and be bed ridden for a bit. Especailly reading W.H... I am not going to use their full name as i dont want you to look up things you shouldnt ;). Yes there is hate, but these peopl have issues and dont make their issues your issues!

Hugs-Ashley!

Don't get caught up in the comment sections of life today.
Make. Do. Create. Go for a walk. Make a to do list.  Let other folks tussle it out.

Also, you don't have to give advice.  Just welcome new members. It really means a lot to them.  I know it really meant a lot to me when I first got here.

Nothing good comes of immersing yourself in it. Be aware of the general public feeling for your own safety, but taking a bath in vitriol was never good for anyone.

I don't read comments to LGBT articles anymore. It'll drive you nuts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe in insulating oneself from the world but watching too much can be self torturous. Don't forget there are some truly wonderful people out there.
Moni

The funny thing about the people posting the hateful things on the web is were I to meet them one on one, they would be the one  backing down. It's easy to shoot off your mouth when you are hiding behind a monitor but in real life they tend to be pretty cowardly. It takes a good deal of courage to transition and I think almost anybody who has come out has far more courage that the people making the hateful comments.

The interesting thing is that some of those very "passionate" a$$hole$ spouting hatred are the ones on the street smiling as you walk by.  People love to use the internet as a shield and to stir up emotions for no good reason.

I'm also guilty of getting sucked-in and it ruining my day....I'm learning to turn a blind eye.  Those people can't be "educated", it's a waste of time and energy.

Edit:  looks like Dena beat me to it....similar thought.

I found an article from Jane Brody in the New York Times today, for which I posted a link in the news section:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,221957.0.html
Turning Negative Thinkers Into Positive Ones (Jane Brody, NY Times)

It contains some tips that may be helpful in breaking out of negative thinking.
Love, Randy

You could post a comment on saving a kitten and certain people would hate on it.
Trolling is something that effects the whole of the internet, not just transgendered people. The worst thing any of us can do is think of ourselves as victims because that's exactly what these people feed off. To make someone feel bad so they can feel better about themselves and the problems they are unable to face up to in life.
I suspect many of the trans haters are trans themselves but are unable to accept it.

History lesson here for younger people out there.

There used to be a thing called usenet in the 90's that was incredibly popular and consisted of nothing but unmoderated message boards in an email like format. People got tired of the trolling on that and built moderated web based message boards like this one.

Younger generation, not knowing of this problem, flocks to relatively unmoderated message boards like places on tumblr and ->-bleeped-<-, and reads the unmoderated comments on various news sites...

The internet is a bubble that you create and live inside your head. There are a certain type of people who get kicks out of trolling Trans sites and Meme's looking for someone to have a go at....or so they try and say.

Forget the internet it is not reality. To sit and write something is simple do and press send...to say the same thing to someone's face is way, way, harder and they don't do it for fear of ridicule from the rest of the public in public spaces. I do not usually pass very well and I really don't care that much at the moment. People are still polite to me and I don't get publicly ridiculed. I am still treated as a woman by most despite my fears.

Liz

It's really sad that some people have nothing better to do than be internet trolls.

Reflecting on what I posted last night, it upsets me a bit that I did seek out a place like this when I first got online in the late 90's on usenet and on the web and listened to the trolls on the newsgroups and message boards I had found. Between that and finding out how much SRS costed, it caused me to bury my feelings and stop looking for somewhere like this for 15 years or so.

It does also remind me though, how much I did think about this as a young adult...

I always wonder how many keyboard commandos secretly wish they were wearing high heels & stockings.

Quote from: big kim on April 05, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
I always wonder how many keyboard commandos secretly wish they were wearing high heels & stockings.

A lot.

I think it is more than people in the closet lashing out at others, I think there is just a lot of hate out there and people are attracted in participating in it.  For whatever reason, they want to be angry at the world, and join in at every opportunity there is to put their hate out there.

With that said, I've completely black listed yahoo now.  As far as I am concerned, it is the site of bigotry. It is the heart of hatred on the web - sure there are worst sites out there, but yahoo was once my favorite search engine in a time far far away.  The site that shall remain nameless is gone now too.  Youtube channels that dwell within the realm of conspiracy, the alt right, anti SJW all gone now.  I don't want to know what these people think anymore, or why they think it, they are clearly attracted to that mindset if for no other reason than it appeals to them on a primal level.

I agree with StaciM, I've tried talking to these people - but no, they just want to hurt others.  They think everyone is out to get them, there is some sort of agenda, they are even more paranoid of others than I am it seems. 

I remember the usenet back in the 90s, but back then I only used it for technology related things.  The internet today is a different beast, we now have social media where people can join together in their hatred of all things.. it is not just ts issues, it is a lot of things and I'm tired of seeing it everywhere.  It is like humanity is turning into this gigantic monster.  Back in the 90s I remember IRC, even a TS channel I would frequent.. I don't remember all of the hate though.

Even facebook, people I used to know and like have turned into complete jerks.  I will see a post here or there, making fun of refugees, TS, the poor.. of course they will later post things that are completely opposite. 

So, I've decided to black list most of them.  My life has been getting better since then, today I sat outside, closed my eyes, listened to the birds chirp and the felt the warm air blow across my skin and felt at peace.  They want that hatred, they can have it, and I hope it consume them all to hell.

I'd rather love rule my life, than bare witness to any of that.  (Okay, the irony from the previous paragraph does not escape me)

Thank you all for replying.

Completely agree with most of the things written here. The Internet allows those who hate the most to express it behind a veil of anonymity, but I don't think we need to be affected by it as long as it is a minor group of people (at least in Spain) and it's not our responsibility to educate strangers.
I've always thought that (not in all cases) the best way to fight haters is just by ignoring them, they'll get tired some day.

EDIT: relating hate in the web, I found this interesting (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en)).

The hate i think is transphobia from either the really stupid or the entrenched n the closet crowd (no offence to those in the closet who are good people/not jerks). Case in point, Charles Kane lived as a woman from 1997-2004, detransitioned and became a transphobic piece of work. In 2017? Charles became Samantha again... classic case of deflecting their feelings and putting their self hatred on others in the process. I have noticed that those who de-transition dont last too long in their brith gender/ect.. Maybe a few weeks, a few months or even a few years. However, at some point they either go back to a full transition or go non-binary. Plus, many of those ''ex-trans''  people are like those ''ex-gay'' people. They cliam to live a life for their god and preach about how awful we are and then in time break and live as they did before their conversion. Makes me wonder when Walt Heyer will come back out as Laura again lol...

I don't insulate myself but i also don't read comments and such that often. When i do though, i usually see that the most popular comments (Facebook likes for example) are the ones that are supportive of us. That is a positive thing in general.

Trolls hide behind the net and for some reason feel a rush of brain chemicals for making people feel bad. Usually they are not very brave one one one. Even those that are not trolls per se but want to throw their version of religion at us and tell us we are bad, I believe you would find contradict their own faith system constantly. So can and should we really let these things bother us? Sometimes its hard not to i admit.

Well the good thing is you can not visit sites filled with hate, not read the comments, and turn off the internet.

I'm wary of this idea we need to control what is being said in every place and every space to preserve our feelings, when you can just switch it off and go outside. I see people on Facebook unfriending each other over differences in politics or ideology, getting worked up and trying to block out everything they don't like. I'm not sure that's healthy either. The more "safe" some people make themselves it seems, the more they increasingly appear unable to accept different points of view, and begin to think of opinions as oppressing them and become more and more in favor of censorship.

Putting things into perspective is always good.

I make a point to march out and counter hateful statements like that publicly with information and better arguments. It makes me feel safer knowing that someone is out there debunking that garbage, when that person is me.

Recently, I posted (on Facebook) a different view on something very innocent and not at all controversial and my comment was just deleted by the user without explanation.  It completely shocked me that they would completely disregard a differing view about something so petty. 

Fwiw, it was another Trans girl and she  wrote a blurb in reference to a relationship meme.  She explained that being single was a gift, especially if you're trans.  She went on to say that relationship demands sacrifice who you are and being single is healthy and having a life partner shouldn't be a priority.   My comment was purely companionate and I wrote that perhaps she just hasn't met the right person, and that having a loving and caring partner can be incredibly helpful and a powerful aide during transition.  It went on to explain about how my wife has been my rock and I couldn't have done this without her.  Perhaps she thought of this as hate because I disagreed with her opinion?  Don't know, but walking through life with blinders on can also be a mistake.  Completely disregarding others views, especially if they're not ignorant or hurtful stops us from growing and maturing.

When I came here about a year ago now. Almost every sentence started with, I.  I this, I that and thankfully no matter how many I's I racked up everyone let me vent. I now feel I have something to contribute and the I's are dwindling. You too after the research as reassurances you are not somehow a perv but a functioning human being that through no input of your own have questioned your sexuality. I was predestined for this and perhaps you were too. The more you learn the more you want to pass it on.

Quote from: theqnoumenon on April 05, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
Completely agree with most of the things written here. The Internet allows those who hate the most to express it behind a veil of anonymity, but I don't think we need to be affected by it as long as it is a minor group of people (at least in Spain) and it's not our responsibility to educate strangers.
I've always thought that (not in all cases) the best way to fight haters is just by ignoring them, they'll get tired some day.

EDIT: relating hate in the web, I found this interesting (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en (https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en)).

The link about Westboro Baptist Church former member is well worth the time. I found the insights shared by one of its former members incredibly powerful. This talk is about 5 or more minutes and the points she makes about communicating and engaging the "other side" are great. For those who want to try and change some minds, try using this strategy, it could not only change how you view another person and how they view you, but save you some real heartache.

Thanks theqnoumenon

Liz

Quote from: ElizabethK on April 05, 2017, 07:08:01 PM
The link about Westboro Baptist Church former member is well worth the time. I found the insights shared by one of its former members incredibly powerful. This talk is about 5 or more minutes and the points she makes about communicating and engaging the "other side" are great. For those who want to try and change some minds, try using this strategy, it could not only change how you view another person and how they view you, but save you some real heartache.

Thanks theqnoumenon

Liz

How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

Quote from: Kylo on April 05, 2017, 05:03:49 PM
Well the good thing is you can not visit sites filled with hate, not read the comments, and turn off the internet.

I'm wary of this idea we need to control what is being said in every place and every space to preserve our feelings, when you can just switch it off and go outside. I see people on Facebook unfriending each other over differences in politics or ideology, getting worked up and trying to block out everything they don't like. I'm not sure that's healthy either. The more "safe" some people make themselves it seems, the more they increasingly appear unable to accept different points of view, and begin to think of opinions as oppressing them and become more and more in favor of censorship.

Putting things into perspective is always good.

I see your point, when I say hate though - think along the lines of the comments in a yahoo TG bathroom article. 

Really, just think about comments in yahoo news articles in general, it is a fine display of the outright hatred people have.  There is no real discussion going on, just an echo chamber of hate, accusations, conspiracy theories and everyone feeding off one another.  The web is filled with places like these. 

Same goes for comments in youtube videos in some channels, there is no real dialogue going on, just the mindless beating of chests, and typical accusations.  The conspiracy theories can be fun, because of just how far out of whack some of these people get, but it is just not worth it.

For me, the real meat of any news article or youtube video are the comments.  It gives me a glimpse into the way people think, why they think the way they do, and I've been through it enough times to know I am not learning anything anymore, I know hate now, I am done with it, and the pain it causes me.

I would say it is far, far, far less healthy to spend hours a day reading this sort of stuff.  It is better just to blacklist it, for me anyway.  I've spent far too much of my life, trying to figure out why people think the way they do, behave the way they do, and for me, trying to argue against them is usually pointless. 

Oops that wasnt the Westboro bapist church.. That turned out to be Peter LaBarbera and his friend Bill Whatcott. Bacially this video has the two closet cases get arrested at Regina University in Regina Saskatchewan.  When Lebarabra is walked away in hang cuffs the crowd cheers for his departure away from the good people :) https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZrr_NyI7TAhUk1oMKHbL2DUcQFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fsaskatchewan%2Fu-s-anti-gay-activist-peter-labarbera-arrested-in-regina-1.2610123&usg=AFQjCNH8qBWXMcyKMg3mzBrpfRlcBTjxnw

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on April 05, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

The church is not the story...the link goes to one of its former members addressing the issue of how to engage people who have apposing views to yours and how a dialogue can lead to change over social media.

Liz

You're welcome, Elizabeth.
That's the point, as I said, my belief is that the best way to destroy hate is ignoring it (at least in the Internet), but if anybody has the strength to face it, it's also a nice path to do so, not by creating more hate against the haters (this will end making the things even worse, with them justifying their own behaviors in the others), but following an strategy like the one defended in the talk, trying to make them understand logically and not reflecting the hate they were expressing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on April 05, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
How big is the westboro bapitist church down there? they seem hateful and horrid but are they that big? I know some member of that church tried to come up to Canada, not sure if it was Alberta, Saskatchewan or Ontario but they got ran out or something lol

I really don't think they are all that big, they are just very vocal and mobile. 

Quote from: staciM on April 05, 2017, 05:30:20 PM
  My comment was purely companionate and I wrote that perhaps she just hasn't met the right person, and that having a loving and caring partner can be incredibly helpful and a powerful aide during transition.  It went on to explain about how my wife has been my rock and I couldn't have done this without her.  Perhaps she thought of this as hate because I disagreed with her opinion? 

I can see why she may have deleted that your desire to help notwithstanding. People are not meant to be alone, we are meant to be in community together and we have a romantic/sex drive for a reason. Sometimes single people who indeed are content with that need to pep talk themselves into being ok with the bad parts of that status and focus on the good parts. Non-single people do this too. How many posts do you see about the keys to a happy relationship etc. people want to focus on the good parts and make them better. She may have just felt that your point was off setting hers. I wouldn't be too concerned.

I need to be honest, I strongly disagree that there is a lot of hate out there. There is some, to be sure, but I do not believe there is a lot.

It is important to keep in mind that people who write hateful comments are a self selecting sample. It is only the people with very strong feelings that feel compelled to spew their hatred on the internet. The vast majority of people just go about their business.

It is very easy to watch the news and think the world is falling apart, but the thing about stories on the news is that they are, by definition, unusual events. If they were common, they would not be newsworthy. Just imagine a new segment that reported on the events that mattered most in peoples lives:

"Earlier today, 4,000 people met their soulmate."
"Reports say that 14,000 people hooked up with the cutie the met at the bar last night and had amazing but slightly awkward sex."
"This just in, 350,000 people had their hearts warmed tonight when their cat did something adorable."

It is easy to get lost in the news of the world and loose sight of the things that matter most to us in our own daily lives. The numbers I listed above where just made up, but this one is real.

353,000 babies are born every day.

That is a whole lot of love right there. The world is full of love, it's why we are all still here.

Quote from: Edina on April 09, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
I need to be honest, I strongly disagree that there is a lot of hate out there. There is some, to be sure, but I do not believe there is a lot.

I agree that haters are in the minority.  However, their influence is out of proportion to their numbers.  Two or three haters can undo the work of a thousand good people.

Quote from: KathyLauren on April 09, 2017, 06:39:29 AM
I agree that haters are in the minority.  However, their influence is out of proportion to their numbers.  Two or three haters can undo the work of a thousand good people.

Hate breeds hate to be sure, but I think love and kindness are move powerful.

The world we live in is the best it has ever been and it continues to get better. Hate can't do that.
https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts/?linkId=35102093 (https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts/?linkId=35102093)

Quote from: NikkiB51 on April 06, 2017, 08:47:33 AM
I really don't think they are all that big, they are just very vocal and mobile.

Yes, that Church is very small.  It's really not much more than an extended family.  However, their views are shared by many on the Christian right. 

I used to teach adult bible classes at a conservative Anglican Church; not exactly a hotbed of fundamentalism.  One day I was  discussing Romans 1.  That's the verse that says that Homosexuality is God's judgement against idolatrous and reprobate people.  One of the men in the class told me that all homosexuals, even ones trying to be not homosexual, should be summarily executed with no exceptions.

So the views of Westboro Baptist Church are not that isolated. 

In a way though that experience was good for me.  It helped free me from the notion that a God and American Christianity had anything in common and eventually liberated me from the constant mental gymnastics of trying to reconcile myself with their book.  In hindsight it was demoralizing me over many decades with its primitive crudity and was extremely harmful to my mental well being.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Dena on April 04, 2017, 10:17:10 PM
The funny thing about the people posting the hateful things on the web is were I to meet them one on one, they would be the one  backing down. It's easy to shoot off your mouth when you are hiding behind a monitor but in real life they tend to be pretty cowardly. It takes a good deal of courage to transition and I think almost anybody who has come out has far more courage that the people making the hateful comments.

That's true Dena in person the bullies CAN be more cowardly, but not always are they less cowardly in person. For example in 2015 in some lower-middle-class suburbs west of Birmingham, England, I was visiting a trans friend for a few days, and hateful bully bigots cis (non-trans) people in the neighborhood threw rocks at our windows several times and broke many windows over a couple of day period -- solely because we are trans. And chanted verbals insults repeatedly for hours at a time at various times in the afternoons and evenings until about 10 pm. Finally, on a Thursday night we had to be escorted out of the neighborhood in police cars under police protection for our safety to a local hotel. A lesbian cis woman about 30 years old physically assaulted me, Jennifer, twice within about 10 minutes in front of 2 cops who arrived to the situation and the two male cops did nothing. Deplorable !  A truly emotional traumatic experience for me that sent me into severe depression for a week afterwards. The male and female cops who gave us a safety ride a local hotel a few hours later were much more helpful and sympathetic than the first 2 male cops who were rather condescending to us and tolerated the lesbian girl's physically assaulting me twice within about 10 minutes solely for my words condemning the rock throwing and taunting against us.

In person I've also had a few different TRANS hateful anti-trans bigots tell me (earlier in my transition -- not now) tell me repeatedly in person that "you looTk like a man" and "I feel embarassed to be out in public with me" -- verbal Hate Crimes against me by anti-trans bully bigot trans ladies. In person. This happened to me multiple times earlier in my transition -- even after I had appeared in a beauty pageant if you can believe it ! I mean, how much more female can I appear than to be in a televised female beauty pageant and STILL have some cis and trans people commit a Hate Crime against me by intentionally and repeatedly calling me a "man." How evil !

There is plenty of anti-trans hatred solely for being trans, in-person and online, that has been directed against ME, Jennifer, over the years of my medical transition, by both hateful bigot cis (non-trans) people as well as hateful bigot trans-people -- and it is especially deplorable IMO coming from other trans ladies -- who sure the heck ought to know better. Sorry for being blunt here -- but I am honestly reporting here on my extensive real-life hate victim experience that was regularly heaped on me earlier in my transition -- and regularly put me in suicidal depression. As a result I associate less frequently with trans people in general, online and in person, than earlier in my transition -- because my life is a lot happier that way -- and I know many other genuine full-time trans lades who have had similar experiences in various countries. Jennifer xx

Quote from: JenniferLopezgomez on April 11, 2017, 12:27:06 AM
That's true Dena in person the bullies CAN be more cowardly, but not always are they less cowardly in person. For example in 2015 in some lower-middle-class suburbs west of Birmingham, England, I was visiting a trans friend for a few days, and hateful bully bigots cis (non-trans) people in the neighborhood threw rocks at our windows several times and broke many windows over a couple of day period -- solely because we are trans. And chanted verbals insults repeatedly for hours at a time at various times in the afternoons and evenings until about 10 pm. Finally, on a Thursday night we had to be escorted out of the neighborhood in police cars under police protection for our safety to a local hotel. A lesbian cis woman about 30 years old physically assaulted me, Jennifer, twice within about 10 minutes in front of 2 cops who arrived to the situation and the two male cops did nothing. Deplorable !  A truly emotional traumatic experience for me that sent me into severe depression for a week afterwards. The male and female cops who gave us a safety ride a local hotel a few hours later were much more helpful and sympathetic than the first 2 male cops who were rather condescending to us and tolerated the lesbian girl's physically assaulting me twice within about 10 minutes solely for my words condemning the rock throwing and taunting against us.

In person I've also had a few different TRANS hateful anti-trans bigots tell me (earlier in my transition -- not now) tell me repeatedly in person that "you looTk like a man" and "I feel embarassed to be out in public with me" -- verbal Hate Crimes against me by anti-trans bully bigot trans ladies. In person. This happened to me multiple times earlier in my transition -- even after I had appeared in a beauty pageant if you can believe it ! I mean, how much more female can I appear than to be in a televised female beauty pageant and STILL have some cis and trans people commit a Hate Crime against me by intentionally and repeatedly calling me a "man." How evil !

There is plenty of anti-trans hatred solely for being trans, in-person and online, that has been directed against ME, Jennifer, over the years of my medical transition, by both hateful bigot cis (non-trans) people as well as hateful bigot trans-people -- and it is especially deplorable IMO coming from other trans ladies -- who sure the heck ought to know better. Sorry for being blunt here -- but I am honestly reporting here on my extensive real-life hate victim experience that was regularly heaped on me earlier in my transition -- and regularly put me in suicidal depression. As a result I associate less frequently with trans people in general, online and in person, than earlier in my transition -- because my life is a lot happier that way -- and I know many other genuine full-time trans lades who have had similar experiences in various countries. Jennifer xx

Sounds like your police suck. Throwing rocks can be deadly physical force and they do it because they know they can get away with it. It's too bad you're not allowed to defend yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk