Susan's Place Transgender Resources

**Warning - This post contains the following:  Extreme Wall of Text, Transphobic thoughts and VERY raw emotional talk.  That being said, I am drowning, I need advice, help, guidance, anything.**

This is a story about my journey, my life and where I am mentally now.  If someone reads this, it will mean a lot, if no one does, it won't surprise me.  I am at the end of my rope. 

I want to be honest with myself, and with you since I am coming to you for advice and help.  I used to be, at least partially transphobic.  My mindset has changed quite a bit since I found out that I am most likely trans myself though.  I am in my mid 30's and I was born with a penis.

This paragraph will describe my former mindset towards the trans community.  If you don't want to read it, I understand, you may skip to the next paragraph if you've decided to read this at all after my warning.  Somewhere around 14 or so years ago was the very first time I was exposed to even the idea of transexuality.  I was working in a call center and when I went down to smoke in my early days I met a man I'll call John.  We struck up a conversation and soon found out we both loved Dungeons and Dragons.  So for a couple weeks or so we worked on getting people together and schedules set up to get a group to play.  The day came and we were to meet at the only one of the group who owned a home and John showed up fully dressed as a female.  Immediately, this raised some questions.  So, of course, I asked the question.  John responded "Oh, I'm transgender, my real name is Sophia (also not chosen name for safety.)  I am not out at work and I would appreciate if it was kept that way."  So, I just said "Ok."  I didn't make a big deal of it because I had no basis that this *WAS* a big deal.  Most of the group already knew about this, so it didn't end up being a big deal at all.  We continued playing for months after with the same group and the subject was never talked about again, no one was uneasy and the game was undoubtedly the most fun I have ever had playing D&D.  About 3 months after we started playing, another member of the group came to me in confidence and told me that he was in fact a fully transitioned FtM and was not sure he could trust the group.  I told him to speak to Sophia about this, that she was incredibly understanding.  I did not want to "out" Sophia.  Things went well, he came out to the group, things went on completely as normal.  Then things started to get weird around 6 or 7 months into our gaming group.  Sophia had just come out at work and started HRT and things started to go downhill in our friendship as well as with (I will call him) Shawn.  They had gotten extremely close and started dating and suddenly they became EXTREMELY EXTREMLY **EXTREMELY** selfish and self centered.  Long story shortened from here, both of these friendships became extremly toxic and we went our seperate ways.  This is where I began my loathing of trans people, blindly assuming extreme selfishness.  This was reinforced by many articles I have read over the years about the same kinds of thoughts, words and activities that these two were exhibiting.  For a while I detested trans people as a whole, thinking it was wrong, immoral, and even that people who accepted trans people were "fostering a mental disorder."  I'm sure it is many things you have heard before, that was me, I was one of "those people."  Eventually my "hatred" settled down after I found out my aunt, who I love dearly and has never been absolutely anything but selfless, wanted to transition early in life and since it was not an option then, she chose to live her life as a gay woman.  This threw me for a loop challenging everything I had come to believe.  My thoughts came to rest for the majority of the rest of this time to the following:  "If you want to mutilate your body and live with it, fine, it's your body and your life, but don't make your problems my and my families problems."  This pertained mostly to bathroom issues.  I won't spend time on that, just know that I used to be an anti bathroom person.

With that out of the way, this is where the story REALLY begins.

I have never been successful at anything.  I have never been good at anything.  About 8 years ago I started gaining weight at record rate, I went from 280 to 600 in just under 6 years, I have since gotten back to around 450. I never fit in with anyone except the social outcast group.  I've been through more jobs than the number of my age.  All of my relationships have been toxic and I have been unable to leave them.  Every time it comes down to the girl getting so fed up with my failures that they leave me.  I never liked typical "boy/guy things."  I always hated sports other than Xgames, I played a year of football to appease my family, but I hated every minute of it, especially showering with the other guys.  I used to think it was just because I'm not well endowed and I was embarassed, but now it may have deeper implications.  The toys I tended to play with were GI Joes and transformers, things that resembled dolls, just the boy version of them.  I never liked anything else boyish.  All the clothes my parents bought for me, i hated.  I tended to glomb onto two or three outfits and wear them exclusively unless I was forced to otherwise.  As soon as I discovered video games, they became my life, and I always flocked to the games that had female leads and in games when I could create either gender character, I 99% of the time created female characters.  When questioned about this by friends, I always responded with "I don't want to stare at a dude's ass for 100 hours." 

The next part I am extremly shameful, disturbed and hurt by.  I eventually started becoming an unknowing woman hater.  Though I loved women, I started at a very young age exhibiting behaviors that I am still to this day completely ashamed by. I remember when i was around 10 years old, for no reason at all, while on the bus, I punched my female cousin in the stomach multiple times.  While no permanent damage was done, of course she told on me, I got in trouble and even more trouble because I didn't have a reason why I did it. This kind of stuff repeated through the next few years, other things like it.  I started getting older and my actions turned to thoughts and fantasies since I didn't want to get in trouble.  I started fantasizing about hurting and even killing women.  It got pretty bad but I was not abusive to any of my girlfriends later in life save for one.  This is no excuse at all, but I only became abusive toward her after she would start hitting me and pushing me and throwing things at me.  I never HIT her, I would push her away, or catch her hand and instinctively twist it or throw caught objects back at her.  I feel horrible about it, I took away so many years from her and left her with some bruises because I couldn't figure myself out.  I regret every action with every bit of my soul.

About 3 years ago I started a very deep instrospective of myself.  I started after I gave my girlfriend the worst bruise and I was just so tired of everything.  So drained.  I went through every bit of my life I could remember, trying to put pieces together, trying to figure out who I really was, why I acted this way.  Tons of things and situations flooded in, I questioned everything I could, then I came to....maybe I'm trans....As soon as I had that thought, I felt immediately sickened and my interest piqued at the same time.  So, not knowing how to self diagnose this, I went to the mirror with no one home, I looked at myself for a long time, studying every aspect, just staring.  I tried it, "I'm a girl." I said.  I felt ridiculous and went on with my day.  A couple hours later, I found myself back at the mirror for some reason.  "I'm a girl."  I stood there a little bit longer afterward this time.  I dismissed it and kept going.  I did this a few mroe times that day and each time it felt less and less dismissable.  I slept on it.  In the morning, after the girlfriend was out for the day and my child was off to school, I went back to the mirror.  I thought to myself This is crazy.  "I'm a man."  Something broke in me.  I felt sick to my stomach.  I actually vomited.  This is of some import to me since I don't vomit.  Ever. I didn't even make it to the toilet.  I fell to my knees and started crying, which I also don't do.  Ever.  I sat there in my own sick for about 10 minutes with just thousands of things flooding through me that I've never felt before.  This is where things got complicated for me.

My whole family is transphobic like I was (Just don't make it my problem).  My girlfriends whole family are closer to trans exterminists (round em up and kill em all before they poison our children).  I have no friends because I have essentially eaten myself into isolation.  I have zero support if I ever decide to come out, if I ever decide to transition.

I have come to accept that I was born in the wrong body.  I bought panties (difficultly due to my size) I bought a few girly things/womens products and it just felt right using them.  I started realizing how much I have always hated my genitals.  I always put different reasons behind it (i'ts too small, it's weird, etc) but maybe it's just because I wasn't meant to have it.  I felt incredibly strongly about this decision.  I felt that I was 100% sure that I was trans at this point.  At this point, all those violent thoughts and dreams completely melted away.  I had a ritual where I would lay down in bed and start imagining those things to kind of put me to sleep.  This time, I couldn't think of anything but myself as a girl, and I was happy.

The problems get deeper now.  The more positive I became about my true identity, the worse I started to feel at the same time the better I started to feel.  At first I thought i would just live with it and never transition because of my family.  Then I started just reading about transitioning and I got those warm fuzzies inside, it felt like something I wanted.  Next comes one of the most pivotal moments for me.  I had been lurking on another trans forum, where they were helpful but could be pretty snarky as well.  I made a couple posts seeking information and such and for the first time, one lovely person, one time only, said "go get it girl!"  That moment...the first and **only** time anyone has referred to me as a female, sent me into a fit.  I started bawling my eyes out, It hit me like a wave of warmness.  Like I was so cold, for so long, then got wrapped up in a giant heated and very fuzzy comforter.  I felt blissful.  That week alone, I lost 16 pounds because I completely forgot about my stress eating.  Like it never existed.

Then I had an argument with my girlfriend, it got heated verbally and I ended up screaming, she ended up screaming, it was a mess, over stupid unrelated stuff.  That was the day I started questioning the whole thing.  "I'm not really trans, this is stupid."  "No way I am trans, I feel very masculine right now."  Thoughts like that.  I got so confused for the first time since I had become so positive.  I have spent every day since trying to keep positive, trying to keep reminding myself that I am a girl.  That has been so hard, I keep thinking how crazy I am for thinking this, I'll never pass (I'm 6'4" and currently 460 pounds with a VERY large frame, normal/healthy weight for me is around 250), no one will ever see me as anything other than (Insert expletive here) and I would lose literally everyone I love except MAYBE one person, I'll never see my kid again, I could endanger my job and so on.  I still imagine that **IF** my girlfriend and I break up for any reason (which is very possible at this point,) when I got my own home, I would live as a female in my home.  It feels like I would be living a lie though.  And because of my recent thoughts, I don't know if I would be living the lie of being male or being female.  Someone posed me the question "If you had ZERO consequences, ZERO surgical issues and EVERYONE would accept you wholly after transitioning, in that perfect scenario, would you go through with it?"  And I answered yes without hesitation.  And by the way...my stress eating is back =(

I am lost beyond all comprehension.  I feel like even if I do find some clarity, even if people do see me as a female even on the internet that I am permanently stuck.  I have tried to justify this every way possible, but I always come out on the side of "I'll hurt too many people to justify this change.  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."  I live in a small town with literally 2 gender therapists within 100 miles and neither of them have taken my calls or returned messages or emails, i don't know why.  I really am down to my last straw.  I have been desperately trying to figure myself out for so long and this is literally the only thing that feels RIGHT...but that doubt kills me.  I have always erred on the side of caution.  I have always been very emotional and analytical. 

I don't know where I go from here, I am 100% positive that the only reason I haven't taken my own life is because it would absolutely wreck my child.  Me and her mother tried a two month seperation and she is still suffering side effects from that 5 months later.  I am not sure I love the woman I am with, it's complicated so I won't go into why, but it mostly boils down to me being so unhappy in my own life that I have caused lots of problems.  At this point I am not sure that the long term effects of surviving me won't be worse on my kid than me just being gone forever.  I don't even know if I am trans!  I don't know WHAT I am!  I don't know where to go, who to lean on.  I no longer feel joy, happiness, sadness...none of it.  I am completely empty inside.  I don't even know why I am writing this!  I have written way too much at this point, I am sure no one has gotten this far.  I feel like crawling back into myself and just trying to tough it out until my overeating inevitably kills me.

Hi Ilyria,

First of all, my heart goes out to you.  You have suffered greatly, and I am so sorry baby.  Many transgenders only come to the realization they are transgender after every other explanation as to who they are and why they feel so bad has been examined and found useless. We do everything we know how to do within the constructs of our socialization. Being transgender does not usually fit in that box, so it is often a very shattering and destabilizing realization, as it seems to add even more problems to our already full plate.

Regarding your guilt over transphobic and misogynistic thoughts, it's okay.  You will be okay.  You were able to realize those thoughts were misguided and self-destructive.  Just let them go. We all struggle. We all have our paths. Many of us have engaged in terrible, self-destructive behaviors and elaborate self-denials to avoid facing who we are.  I went through years of drug addiction.  Your drug of choice seems to be food. My rehab was state prison.  Hopefully yours will be something less traumatic.

You are accepted here.  No one will judge you.  Please know you are of value.  Your life is of value.  You have a woman that loves you and a child!  You must value them as well.  Transition is about change, and it begins with oneself.  You must stop hating yourself or there will be nothing left to save.  You path will be very difficult, sweetie, but if you have lurked on this forum, you have read many stories of pain, sacrifice, and courage.

In the meanwhile, please accept my welcome to Susan's Place. 

With  kindness,

Terri

Ditto, have you tried therapy

I read your entire post, and I have some advice.  First, I think it's obvious that you are trans, so you can stop worrying about that.  There are several battles you're fighting against, and you need to let go of some of it in order to focus on the biggest issue.  You're seeking a gender therapist, but we already know your diagnosis and the proper treatment.  You're experiencing gender dysphoria, and the only treatment that works for it is transitioning.  I suggest you take the next few steps:

-Try finding an endocrinologist or primary care provider who will prescribe HRT (Estradiol, Spironolactone, and possibly Finasteride).  Familiarize yourself with what each medicine does, so it's clear to you why you're asking for them and can easily face counter arguements the doctor may have.  Getting on HRT first is the best way to feel hope and rest assured that you're making progress even when you're not actively doing anything.

-If you feel you need therapy to deal with all of the hurt you described in your post, find a therapist to talk it out.  Make it clear to them that transition is higher priority for you than looping conversations about your past.  Be aware that the therapist is not going to write you prescriptions for HRT and may not even know who to refer you to, so consider this optional.  Don't get side-tracked by anyone who says you need to deal with "depression" first or lose weight first.

-Make a transition plan so you know your goals and challenges.  This probably includes electrolysis for facial hair, and figuring out who your support system is.  You may lose some family members but gain them back later.  You yourself need to be ok before worrying too much about who is accepting you.

-Once your life is on track, you can probably peacefully start managing your health.  This includes things like going for daily walks outdoors.  If you start getting used to walking long enough distances, you will be able to lose weight in a very safe way.  I also suggest avoiding any fad dieting, and my personal recommendation is going vegan.  (I have many reasons why)

Please call the Trans-Lifeline at (877) 565-8860 if you are feeling in crisis, and they will be able to offer support and advice from real life experience.  I hope this helps.

Hi Ilyria,

I feel your pain. So sorry for that! I would advice you to seek therapy first and talk things through. If the gender therapists haven't replied, have you considered dropping by their office and trying to get an appointment that way? If that doesn't work, just try booking a regular therapist. It seems like you have a lot of self destructive behavior and they could also help you.

The positive thing is that you have realized what made you so angry and upset all these years. It also seems like your current relationship is a bit toxic? If that's the case, make sure you are surrounded by people who will help you instead of bringing you down. If you feel like you don't have any friends that will support you, we can give you support through this forum. We are a community and, as a cheesy as it sounds, we are all in this together.

Welcome to Susan's Place. Like many of us, life has piled a bunch of problems on you and digging out isn't going to be easy. You need to get used to the fact that solving one problem will take you another step to where you want to be. First accept the fact that you can transition if you want to. I am 6'2" and I am not the tallest member on the site. I think that title goes to a member who is about 6'7". Finding therapy can be difficult as it took me a bit over 4 years and traveling 400 miles from home. If there isn't anything available locally, there are therapist who work online. Another thing to work on is your weight because it will take time to safely reduce your weight to a healthy level. After that, decide what you are comfortable addressing next. I normally suggest facial hair removal but that isn't a priority for everybody.

On this forum, we have active moderation. if somebody gets aggressive against you, hit the report button to the right of the post. This will generate a report and when a moderator can look at it, we will determine if the post is appropriate. We want everybody to be comfortable here as this site exist to help you discover yourself.

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I agree with the replies you've received.

You can google the nearest LGBTQ centers in your area to get links to counselors, trans-friendly doctors, support groups, etc.

Welcome to the club ma'am.  There's nothing wrong with you.  It's 100% natural despite what you may have been led to believe.  I would start with a gender therapist first.  Skype is an option as many therapists use Skype now.  And congratulations on starting to come to terms with your unique gender identity in the face of living in a trans phobic setting.  It's not unusual to hate transgender people if you are in the closet and in denial.  What you were hating was your inability to accept yourself and projecting it on others.  I did the same thing when I was a teenager towards gay people even tho I was struggling with same sex attraction feelings in myself.  I believe what matters in life is not how high we rise, but how far we've been able to come.  It's all a journey.

Also,  as Kirk came to realize, sometimes the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.  And if he didn't put the needs of his friend Spock above the needs of the many, as he said, "The cost would have been my soul."   Or to put it another way. If I am not for me, then who will be for me?  Or even,  she who saves a single life, saves the world.  Even if that life is her own.

Ilyria - I'm brand new here, I started my account a few hours ago.  But know that you are not alone.  For years I lived with the thought of suicide constantly in my mind.  For most of my life, it was a daily question: "What if I just ended it?" I've thought it through, again and again and again.  I've sat beside a girlfriend through three of her suicide attempts, and witnessed police talking down a friend as he threatened to shoot himself.  And I've come to one conclusion:

Death is never the answer.  Both of the people I mentioned above were forced to cut ties with their families, their friends, and find a new home.  Both suffered abuse, neglect, and depression.  One of them was a drug slave, a heroine addict, and a survivor of multiple sexual assaults and mutilations.  But, they are both alive today.  They're happy, after a fashion, and are building lives for themselves.  Three months ago I was languishing, hopeless, living off my parents' charity and cursing myself as a weight around their necks.  Now I have a job, I have a great therapist, and I smile when I look in the mirror and imagine the amazing woman I'm going to become.  No matter how bad things get, they can get better...as long as you're still breathing. 

Maybe your baby girl would be hurt if you had to leave.  But she'd still hurt if you died.  Either way, she's lost her parent - but in one scenario, there's the possibility of reconnecting someday.  In the other, there isn't. 

The girlfriend I mentioned above cut all contact with her family, because their religion decided she was tainted, broken.  They cast her out.  But, years later, her parents contacted her.  They wanted her back in their lives, and had distanced themselves from their church because of it.  People can surprise you just as easily as disappoint.  While it seems like it might be healthy to get some distance from your family, don't give up all hope that they could change their minds.

I can't tell you the best course of action.  Only you can decide what's best for you.  Just please don't give up.  I don't know you but us girls are in this together.  You were brave to share your pain with us, and that courage can keep you going.

Things will get better, as long as you keep breathing.

Thank you all for your kind words.  I can't begin to explain how much it means to me that something as simple as referring to me as female impacts my mood, but I am sure you all know very well.  I sit here typing this from inside a parasitic male shell still just wishing that things could be so much more different for me.

In truth, I am probably too chicken to take my own life.  I say that but part of it is that I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings most times.  I wish I could say that I was sure this time though. 

I still don't know where to go from here.  My heart says one thing, my brain says another thing and my body says yet a third thing.  I can't stand that I am completely ruled by my emotions.  I am far too empathetic/sympathetic for my own good.  I find myself sometimes just wishing everyone would die off so I can start fresh and be happy as selfish and horrible as that is. 

I am starting to feel like, with everything else in my life previously, the barrier to entry is too high and I will likely eventually give up and resign myself to the fact I can never be a real girl.

Thank you for your support, I will now fade into obscurity.

I wish you the best, but you don't have to go.  Just having someone to talk to helps so much.  I know exactly how you feel when you talk about wishing the people you care about would just die to make it easier on you, and how awful and sick and selfish that feels.  My parents are both very sick, and getting older.  Sometimes I think that maybe if I just waited till they passed before I came out everything would be easier.  And that thought makes my stomach churn. 

And I know how you feel when you talk about a male shell.  I've always felt like a malfunctioning brain stumbling around in a smelly, sweaty, hairy, horny meat-suit - only recently have I found hope that I might be able to change that suit to one that feels more right.

I've only been here a few hours, and already I can tell that there are plenty of people, men and women alike, who know what you're feeling and have survived.  Do what you feel is right for you, but I for one am here if you ever just need an ear (figuratively speaking), and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Ilyria,

I feel the unbelievable pain in your words.

What you're have experienced and are now experiencing must be unbearably hard. I feel great respect at how you've reasoned your way through to where you are now despite even those realizations that offered some relief also bringing additional torment. It is a feat I think not many are able to undertake, let alone complete. I also believe laying your soul bare here has taken more effort and courage than most people can imagine.

I can see what a shock and realization vomiting and then crying after you tried to tell the mirror you were a man was to you. I would also imagine that then accepting—or at least admitting—that you are a woman must probably have been the hardest thing you've done. The fact that this realization also revealed connections to actions that you feel ashamed of must have also brought additional pain.

From what you've told I also understand how impossible it must now seem to you to go forward. It probably seems everything is stacked against you, and that you are walled in. Any assurances to the contrary would probably sound hollow to you right now—so do allow me to just say that there are people here who understand and are willing to listen.

I rarely write, but your words moved me, and I feel for you. Please do feel free to stay—and do please write out your thoughts and feelings, if you at all feel you want to. I trust and hope that it may at least help in ultimately unraveling the spider's web you must now feel caught in.

I'll be your friend, you and I have a lot in common haha, kinda the same reason I joined here.

Quote from: Ilyria on April 24, 2017, 10:37:47 PM
Thank you for your support, I will now fade into obscurity.

Is that what you really want? Obscurity? After coming this far?  Whatever motivated you to join us not going to go away.   Ever.  IMO, the best way out of your dilemma is not retreat, nor going around it, but just steering right into the middle of the sucker.

Also, that's an interesting word. Obscurity.  From Latin obscurare "to make dark,  to darken."  Do you really want to retreat into the darkness now that you've seen the light?

Besides:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhNS0mUw.gif&hash=1eec875340ad2d2d3d3b653039be68cc6328fb81)

My mind has been going a million miles a second for weeks, months now.  I've always been a thinker, but this is complete overload. 

It's funny you mention going into the darkness, I have been listening to a song titled "Into the Darkness" over and over for months now.  It's heavy metal, definitely an acquired taste, but it fits, and the words pertain to the hypothetical "two me's."  The me I was born into, and the me I feel like inside.  Particularly my lack of ability to take any sort of action or control over my own life with the lyric "Until this all crashes down, I'll hold on. Into the darkness...Not knowing at all"  So....yes...obscurity.  Also, I wish I felt like part of something, even though your GIF made me cry again.  It brings me to the lyrics of another song from the same band I haven't been able to let go of either.

Everytime I speak
Wipe away all these tears
Living every day in fear
Finding nothing but empty

Wide awake and dreaming
Is this what it seems?
Close my eyes forever
I'll wake up

Desperation strips me
These last days have not been free
Stealing every breath from me
Whispering defeat

And I see it in your eyes
Long gone
And i feel it in your heart
Long gone
And I see it in your eyes
Long gone, long gone

In a perfect world, if there were no consequences, yes, I would live as a female.  Alas, there are many for me.  Many more than i can deal with.  I have too much scar tissue around my heart to bear any more.  No matter how hard I try, I can not justify hurting so many people I love so much to satisfy myself, because in doing so, I am not satisfying myself.  For me satisfaction has always come from keeping those around me as happy as I can, even though I fail at doing that, I must still try, if not for my sake, then for the sake of my amazing 5 year old daughter.  Above all else, I have to bring her up to be a strong and independant young woman.  I never want her to have to live like me, so dependant on everyone others and their approval just to live.

I guess what I am trying to get at is...even if I transition and forego everyone and everything I know...I will NEVER be the picture in my head of how I feel.  My weight, I can lose and have been losing.  My height...I know there are tall women, but I don't see myself as a 6'4" extremly large framed woman.  I have very hard features, strong jaw, heavy brow, massive forehead, god awfully enormous hands (seriously, they are a full knuclkle and a half bigger than my dad's and hes the next tallest/largest framed person I have met.  I wear a 14 Wide shoe....All things that can't physically change.  They don't do height reduction surgery.  What good would it do if I still see someone far different from how I feel inside after I transition?  I feel like it would just be as bad.

You're being too critical of yourself, you could view it as potential instead of a setback. A lot less potential for change for an already fem mtf pre hrt

The mental effects alone of HRT is profound by all accounts. Even crossdressing, and even just the potential to dress up has been a big benefit. One goes as far as they need to. Setting up a false binary of reaching your ideal  vs not trying at all and going into obscurity, does not make logical sense. There's alot in between those two that can potentially improve your mind to varying degrees. 

Quote from: JMJW on April 25, 2017, 01:47:01 PM
The mental effects alone of HRT is profound by all accounts. Even crossdressing, and even just the potential to dress up has been a big benefit. One goes as far as they need to. Setting up a false binary of reaching your ideal  vs not trying at all and going into obscurity, does not make logical sense. There's alot in between those two that can potentially improve your mind to varying degrees.

This

You will never know how you will turn out before you try.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106815.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144104.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,168444.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,210798.0.html

Quote from: Dena on April 25, 2017, 04:23:03 PM
You will never know how you will turn out before you try.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106815.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144104.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,168444.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,210798.0.html

I completely agree!

I'm going to third Dena's post.  Do a google image search for 'mtf before and after'.  Those images are what finally gave me hope that what I'd always secretly wished for didn't have to be impossible.  Hardened marines can become slender and graceful.  Bearded bodybuilders can become the girl next door.  I know that most of us never quite achieve these phenomenal levels of success, but you never know until you try!  Sure, you'll always be tall and broad-shouldered, but there are a lot of tall, broad-shouldered cis-women out there; it's just not the ideal we're usually fed.  Women come in all shapes and sizes, regardless of the genitals they were born with.

I am desperately trying to hold onto hope.  It seems further away every day though.  Another thing is....you ever heard Lurch from the original Addams family?  Yeah, my voice is deeper.  I have tried so hard to feminize my voice and I either sound manly or cartoonish, its maddening!

Right now, I don't feel as low as I have been in all of my other posts, I think I'm bi polar.  That depression over not knowing what's wrong with me has turned into a depression knowing I'll never be who I am inside.  It's a conundrum I am altogether too familiar with in life.  I'm also scared to death of sterility right now.  I have no clue right now if things will work out with my girlfriend and I know we wanted at least one more child, but on the other side of that coin is if we have another kid and then I come out to her at any point, I feel like I will have pretty much...screwed her.  Days like this I just feel like a weak person, I am a weak person.  I don't even feel like I have the right to call myself a girl since I have zero bravery in me when I am speaking to so many extremely confident and beautiful women who have been so kind to me.  I feel like I am so far below that.

You can deal with voice. Like you, I was unable to reach the feminine range and I had to live with that voice for many years. Almost 2 years ago I had voice surgery and now I am able to comfortably hit the feminine range. Normally a surgical voice requires therapy to develop a proper voice but it's doable.

As for children, freezing sperm is common in cases like this. The only decision is do you want to delay HRT and have a child or preserve some sperm and have the child latter.

I don't think is a matter of bravery. More likely the problem looks so large it appears to be unsolvable. The trick is the transition is many small problems that you can solve. The more you solve the easer it becomes.

Quote from: Dena on April 25, 2017, 11:34:36 PM
I don't think is a matter of bravery. More likely the problem looks so large it appears to be unsolvable. The trick is the transition is many small problems that you can solve. The more you solve the easier it becomes.

That's right.
Q. How do you eat a whole elephant?
A. One bite at a time.

You don't have to do everything all at once.  It's quite common when in the closet to let one's mind go 100 MPH in a 10 MPH zone.  Fears get magnified.  Many of them have no basis in reality.   That's why it's so important to find a therapist to talk to. Especially in the beginning. You shouldn't have to carry this by yourself.  And, you don't have to go all out and live full time and get all the surgeries (I call it the works) and pass 100% as female or even do HRT (although it really does wonders to reduce one's gender dysphoria, even on a lo-dose).  Think of it more as a journey of discovery.  Just ask yourself, 'What can I reasonably do today?'  Last summer in a support group a young post op trans woman was saying something that was hard for me to forget. She reminded us that, "Transition is about becoming more comfortable with one's gender presentation." It's a balancing act of how much we want to be out and how much we can handle, but it's possible to get to a place of balance much better than full denial and suppressing one's feelings, which isn't healthy at all.  Many of the people on this site and trans women I have met in my support groups have been on HRT for 2 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years even while still presenting as male.  You do what makes you feel comfortable.  Figure out what you want and need to do today.  As much or as little as you wish.  That's the whole point of this. To feel better.  Also, I've seen large trans women that actually pass better than small, thin, wiry types.  All those ample curves really help.

My heart goes out to you Ilyria.  It is incredibly painful to deal with life being so radically different than we desire.  While reading your posts I can find distinct threads of similarity with my experience.  You seem to be in a situation where things have become untenable.  I truly hope things improve.

For what it's worth my situation seemed particularly poor near the beginning as well.  I did not believe that I knew how to be a woman and I'm still figuring some of it out.  I cannot speak for your gf and relationship, but it is likely that your child will appreciate having a parent who is happier and stable rather than one who is a wreck.  For the first two years of my eldest daughters life I was completely miserable.  I grew up in a very broken home and I would not let my child be exposed to me and my foul moods.  I figured being an absentee was preferable to screwing her up like I was.  I was wrong.  I was hurting all of us by acting that way.  Things did improve over time and I lament acting the way I did, but it wasn't too late.

More than anything else, you deserve to be happy.  It doesn't come all at once and our brains fool us sometimes with incredibly erratic and irrational fears.  You know that you are tg.  The question really is what to do about it.  You are not responsible for other people's reactions.  Passing is nice, but being content with yourself is really the key.  It's hard and takes time.  Some days feel like a total backwards slide.  That's okay.  Find a small point of light in your life and use it as a beacon.  Even small things can help.  Something as innocuous as wearing panties, or even just shaving can help.  You don't have to jump all in.  As we change life adjusts around us.  It's not all sunshine and roses, but even a cloudy day is better than a tornado.  Stay strong.
Big Hugs,
Amber

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Quote from: Jane Emily on April 26, 2017, 09:53:07 AM
Also, I've seen large trans women that actually pass better than small, thin, wiry types.  All those ample curves really help.

I agree.

Well, you all have given me a little confidence to start taking steps... even if slowly.  I just tried to take one of my first baby steps....I had been shaving my incredibly fast growing bear/stache for a couple weeks (because I hate facial hair) now and just got tired of doing it literally every day, So i got some Nair facial hair remover cream because at least that was supposed to give me about a week shave free...

Yeah...my face is on fire and I have a blood red beardstache now...I literally feel like my face is inside of a fire.  Yet another sign I guess that it wasn't meant to be.

Edit:  It did not remove ANY hair either.

Oh don't use Nair.  It's terribly strong stuff that can irritate your skin (as you learned).  I had incredibly fast growing hair as well (mostly the body hair).  For the body I started epilating.  Had to do it far more frequently than I liked, but it eventually got better.  For the face I still shave.  I don't have money to do electrolysis and laser didn't work.  It's annoying but I would hardly consider it game over for you.  You were brave enough to try and that counts for something.  Now you know one method that certainly does not work for you. Just tell everyone that you were testing to go as Redbeard the pirate for Halloween. (Bonus points if you wear an eye patch.)

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Oh, I already have been having super flaky skin since shaving (was always itchy under there anyways, so I just said I had a reaction to some really old lotion I found under the sink, so I am covered there.  I am just feeling downtrodden.  It seems like every step I take, I realize one more thing to add to the very long list of consequences and less and less to add to the benefit column.

It's not about how many things you have in each category, it's about the quality of the items.  Unfortunately, it is hard to judge how much benefit you will feel from things due to a lack of experience.  That's why it helps to take small steps. It's not a race.

As far as the flaky skin I recommend you wash your face before shaving, use a quality shaving cream or similar product.  A hot towel over the area to be shaved helps.  Use a quality razor and mind the blade sharpness(I was horrible about replacing blades).  Some cold water after the shave to remove residue and close the pores.  Follow up with moisturizer (I use an inexpensive one with no scent).

One thing I forgot to mention before was that you certainly don't have to have things figured out before starting things.  Not all of us fit nicely into binary gender boxes.  I am still genderfluid and nonbinary.  I lean girl most days, but there are definitely days where it's all guy.  You don't even have to end up where you initially planned.  Many have said they don't want to be a full-time woman and later decide (or realize) they do.  Some are very sure they want to be all woman and discover that is just not who they want to be.  It's all good.  I hope you continue to feel better sweetie.

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Quote from: Ilyria on April 26, 2017, 01:27:28 PM
Oh, I already have been having super flaky skin since shaving (was always itchy under there anyways, so I just said I had a reaction to some really old lotion I found under the sink, so I am covered there.  I am just feeling downtrodden.  It seems like every step I take, I realize one more thing to add to the very long list of consequences and less and less to add to the benefit column.

I know depression makes you see everything as negative and difficult but be patient :) it's trial and error for most of us and as others said, it's not a race. Take your time.

Quote from: amberwaves on April 26, 2017, 02:01:28 PM
One thing I forgot to mention before was that you certainly don't have to have things figured out before starting things.  Not all of us fit nicely into binary gender boxes.  I am still genderfluid and nonbinary.  I lean girl most days, but there are definitely days where it's all guy.  You don't even have to end up where you initially planned.  Many have said they don't want to be a full-time woman and later decide (or realize) they do.  Some are very sure they want to be all woman and discover that is just not who they want to be.  It's all good.  I hope you continue to feel better sweetie.

Literally the ONLY thing I am 100% sure of in all of this is that if I had NO consequences...Like, guaranteed no surgical side effects/errors, and GUARANTEED acceptance by all my loved ones, and I knew I would completely pass, I would go through with it and transition completely, all the way down to FFS and vocal surgeries, all of it.  Alas, as you all know, this is not the case.  My fears are just so great I'm not sure how I am going to get past them. 

All of you lovely ladies have helped me feel better and accept myself and trans people in general wholeheartedly.  In fact, My girlfriend has a transgender boss (who personally is NOT a good person) and she was telling me about how she didn't get invited to the companies "Girls night out" and immediately I asked "is it because shes rude or because shes trans?"  My g/f looked at me like I was nuts.  Because the last time the issue came up I had been pretty offputting and now I am ashamed of that.  She reassured me it was because she was rude as far as she was told and it kind of opened a conversation up where I explained I don't feel the same as I used to about trans people as a whole anymore.  She took it better than I thought.  Overall I have been trying to...I hate to use the word but...manipulating more and more conversations into how I am opening up to all kinds of things and ideas...maybe subconsciously I hope she picks up on it on her own or just to test the waters.  She is, and always has been, far more accepting of people than her anti trans family and I am already putting that in the positive column.  She's pretty liberal actually, she just has a couple conservative views, and as i'm writing this I am thinking I'm totally not sure if that hasn't always been a chameleon effect of being with me...  We both are VERY against abortion and my mind will never change on that, but....wow, im just thinking how shes always been very accepting of her boss until her boss started being rude.  I was always the one who said "HE" and used her deadname and she always always said "she" and the new name...oh my head is swimming thinking about how horrible I used to be....and wow...you ladies have a powerful effect...I have opened my eyes so much...I still think i'm going to proceed with the slow shaping approach for now but...wow...sorry I just rambled and put all my thoughts this time instead of a carefully thought out post.

*I should address the fact that the deadnaming was only in private conversation, never to her face, but I feel terrible just the same*

It's okay, rambling can sometimes be the only way to get to what you're really thinking, without second-guessing yourself!

Also, I was thinking about you earlier, and about my own concerns with my body shape (I have decent hips for a bio-male, but my shoulders are really broad and I'm of course relatively tall for a woman).  And in a weird way it helps me to remember that cis-women hate their bodies too.  It's terrible and tragic that specific forms of beauty have been codified as 'correct' in Western society, when so few people match those forms; but it's a problem that all women share, and in a roundabout sort of way it helps me feel more connected to the wider sphere of womanhood.

So after clearing the two biggest physical hurdles (facial hair and hormones) - three if you have problems with your genitals and want bottom surgery - I feel like we end up in the same boat as any other woman.  'I'm too tall', 'I'm too fat', 'My voice is wierd', 'I wish my lips were fuller', 'My boobs are too small'.  To a greater or lesser degree depending on the individual, body image problems just seem to come packaged with being a girl.

Speaking of boobs, I already have them lol!  They are far too far apart though and are now burning like the sun along with my face because of the dang Nair >.<  I suspect though they will go away as I lose weight.  I'm down 93 pounds since May of last year.  I have been in a slump though because of the whole worrying about not being able to do anything about what I have found about myself, but, que sera I guess.

My rambling today did help, taking into account all of the things you lovely ladies have said to me.  I am suspecting I am becoming more in touch with dysphoria possibly?  I really have no bearing as to what exactly it feels like that I know of, maybe I have felt it forever and had no basis for comparison to identify it.  I am going to be seeking out therapy soon though.  I have a lot of crap to go through to get a really amazing job including a VERY VERY thorough physical and medical history check.  I have already passed their test where they basically put me to work for a day on the hardest jobs they have to see if I can hack it, and i have my doctor vouching for me in note form, so I am incredibly hopeful.  Though the company I will be working for has been INCREDIBLY supportive and proactive in LGBT issues in the community, the temp service I will be going through to get into that company is....not.  So...after I am in, then I can start therapy.  I'm really kind of excited and super nervous...again I am rambling...sorry.


I am on a high right now because I just found out today, that despite our states idiot governor trying to tear them down, our city has chosen to put in place protections for trans kids in the cities schools and I'm excited for my daughter to be raised into a more inclusive world!  Maybe ill come to terms with my shape and stuff...who knows, but im just kinda getting giddy over this whole big thing right now.  (Totally bi polar im pretty sure)

Well, if you *are* bipolar (and the sheer intensity of the moods you describe makes it sound like a possibility), that's one more reason to start seeing a therapist, even if it's online or one who doesn't specialize in gender therapy.  From what I know of bipolar disorder (I was engaged to a girl with bipolar 2, I think it was), you should also look into a psychiatrist.  There are medications that can really help give your world some structure and stability, and therapists can't write prescriptions unless they are also psychiatrists (such is my understanding at least). 

I started with my therapist about a month ago - she's still doing supervised work, and isn't gender specialized, but just having her to talk to with no judgment and no worries has been enormously helpful to me.  If you find someone more experienced, or a specialized gender therapist, I'm sure the benefits would change your life.

I'm glad you are feeling better Ilyria, and also happy that your girlfriend is open minded. By your post I got the impression that she was not a good influence but I think I was wrong.

Just out of curiosity girl, did you choose Ilyria because of the character in the Angel tv show?

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 27, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
I'm glad you are feeling better Ilyria, and also happy that your girlfriend is open minded. By your post I got the impression that she was not a good influence but I think I was wrong.

I have my moments, yes.  Doing better for now, not sure how long that will last, but I am enjoying it to its fullest!  She is pretty open minded, but I really don't think she would react well to....this.  But alas, only time will tell.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 27, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
Just out of curiosity girl, did you choose Ilyria because of the character in the Angel tv show?

OMG, no one EVER gets that!  Yes!  Guilty as charged!  I always loved and identified with Fred on a very unknown level, not only because she's gorgeous, but because I saw her as "the female version of me."  (If I only knew at the time lol!)  She was literally everything I thought myself to be.  Quiet, shy, nerdy, smart, deeply hurt, extremely emotionally driven, sensitive, caring, in touch yet aloof, clumsy, intuitive and by far the single most underestimated character in the entire Buffyverse.  And then (to be spoiler free) after she made her transformation she became this powerful creature with all of these burdens of a past full of power and pride and freedom now constrained inside a body that just doesn't work for her.  If not for her friends she would have surely died.

I am not sure that this is the name that I will choose, I am torn, but for now, it works because I identify so much with that character that it seems only fitting.

Ilyria was definitely one of my favorite Angel characters, even though they had to kill my actual fave to bring her in. XD

(Seriously though, R.I.P. Winifred Burkle  :'()

Quote from: Ilyria on April 27, 2017, 01:20:58 PM
I have my moments, yes.  Doing better for now, not sure how long that will last, but I am enjoying it to its fullest!  She is pretty open minded, but I really don't think she would react well to....this.  But alas, only time will tell.

OMG, no one EVER gets that!  Yes!  Guilty as charged!  I always loved and identified with Fred on a very unknown level, not only because she's gorgeous, but because I saw her as "the female version of me."  (If I only knew at the time lol!)  She was literally everything I thought myself to be.  Quiet, shy, nerdy, smart, deeply hurt, extremely emotionally driven, sensitive, caring, in touch yet aloof, clumsy, intuitive and by far the single most underestimated character in the entire Buffyverse.  And then (to be spoiler free) after she made her transformation she became this powerful creature with all of these burdens of a past full of power and pride and freedom now constrained inside a body that just doesn't work for her.  If not for her friends she would have surely died.

I am not sure that this is the name that I will choose, I am torn, but for now, it works because I identify so much with that character that it seems only fitting.

OMG love it!