Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Has anyone else noticed a tendency of some people, especially in customer service situations, to go over the top in trying to be accepting and friendly when they clock you?  For instance, I was at Target yesterday, still all dressed up and made up from church, picking up some new summer clothes. There were two female associates standing in the aisle by the register's helping direct people to open lanes.

As I was walking up to the lanes, the one woman clearly clocked me and immediately gave me a crazy excited greeting and a little extra attention helping direct me to an open self-checkout lane. Now I had been kind of observing these two while I was shopping and this greeting and assistance was far and above what she was doing for other customers.

This isn't the first situation where I've noticed this either.  Now for me, I actually find I appreciate it.  While I don't really feel like I need to be treated special, I feel like at least they're doing their best to try to make me comfortable and show that they're an ally not someone I need to worry about.  However, in discussions I've had with other trans women, I've listened to them go off on a rampage about people who over-react like this. Talking about it being so phony and insincere.  I tend to think the opposite.  I think people who do this are trying very hard to be sincere in their acceptance even if they don't realize that by going over the top they've really confirmed that they see us differently than other women.  IDK what do you folks think?

I've only noticed that with black women and I always look ok at them like they are stupid because ik why they are doing it. White women can be overly nice whether they clock you or not. I work in retail as a cashier and I'm overly nice to people who are Cis gender, just means I'm in really good mood.

It can get a bit sappy at times yes, but i think people see the news, people read the internet comments and see bigotry often and they are just trying to overcompensate and let you know that they are accepting. I can't really say that is a bad thing.

I've made friends people that have served me in a customer capacity in the past. One of my best friends now came from that sort of repeat interaction. We laugh about it now.

I agree with you, Alyssa.  It can be a little irritating, but it usually means that they are trying, and I give big brownie points for trying.  I'd much rather have trying too hard than not trying hard enough.  But if I detected any insincerity in the exuberance, my fangs would come out.

I don't know..I get excited myself around transgender people, although there are so many in Thailand, I should be used to it.
In my case, I feel a comradeship with them, but I tend to feel small and shoddy next to the tall, glamorous Thai katoey (she-males, who are really gay men in drag).

There was one time when I got the impression that the person was thinking "hey there one of those trans women I've been hearing about.  I'll use the right pronouns etc so she knows I'm cool with it."

She did call me ma'am , was very  nice and I really have no way to know what she was thinkingn so I don't fault her even if she was thinking that. 

I'd rather just get treated like everyone else but its much better than being ridiculed or worse.

It can get to be where they are over nice to the point of it being condescending. Luckily I have not had that happen personally. 



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I used to appreciate it.  These days I find that when it happens it removes the "real" from the interaction.  They seem disingenuous, and I just want them to treat me like they treated the lady before me.

I agree that black women do it more, too.  Not sure if they are just being snarky, though.

Nice avatar, Robyn. ;)

Quote from: ainsley on May 08, 2017, 12:22:32 PM


Nice avatar, Robyn. ;)

Thank you Ainsley  ;D

I think there are a lot worse things going on in the world than being nice, so no it certainly doesn't bother me as long as there is no hidden agenda.
I did have one lady in a clothing store get a bit over excited, but it was cool :) She just wanted to acknowledge my womanhood and share a little of her experience with a few tips.

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

shy

Quote from: ainsley on May 08, 2017, 12:22:32 PM
I used to appreciate it.  These days I find that when it happens it removes the "real" from the interaction.  They seem disingenuous, and I just want them to treat me like they treated the lady before me.

I agree that black women do it more, too.  Not sure if they are just being snarky, though.

Nice avatar, Robyn. ;)

a lot are being snarky.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 08, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
a lot are being snarky.

I tend to agree with you.

I totally understand where people are coming from here and there's  probably some truth in all of it. If you set aside the obviously snarky interactions that involve people being overly friendly, just put yourself in their shoes for a sec. Chances are they rarely run into trans people so meeting you may seem like an opportunity for them to show support. As artificial as it may seem they dont understand what we deal with so they just do their best to be kind.

I think it does us all good to give people the benefit of the doubt that they mean well.

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Quote from: EmmaLoo on May 08, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
I totally understand where people are coming from here and there's  probably some truth in all of it. If you set aside the obviously snarky interactions that involve people being overly friendly, just put yourself in their shoes for a sec. Chances are they rarely run into trans people so meeting you may seem like an opportunity for them to show support. As artificial as it may seem they dont understand what we deal with so they just do their best to be kind.

I think it does us all good to give people the benefit of the doubt that they mean well.

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I agree with the sentiment of giving people the benefit of the doubt.  I live in rural Missouri.  When people encounter me there is a good chance I am the first trans person they have met.  I am their first experience, so I am nothing but nice, despite how they react.  I think if their experience with me is contrary to their bigoted upbringing, then that will go a long way in changing the culture.   ;)

Now, my wife and daughter are sometimes hard to tame and will call out rude people when they are with me. lol  My warriors...  They are like pit bulls.

Quote from: EmmaLoo on May 08, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
I think it does us all good to give people the benefit of the doubt that they mean well.

THIS!! Your statement here is something I've been preaching to my oldest child.  They're a member of this millenial generation that is far more accepting of gender non-conformity and transgender identities but they're also very intolerant of people who don't have the same experience and viewpoints they have.  It causes them to react pretty virulently to people who mean well and it can actually turn potential allies against us.

It's so weird for me though when I encounter friends, like those I mentioned in my OP, who are older than me but also share some of that venom in reaction to situations like this.  As I said, for me it's appreciated that they're trying. I don't take it as fake or disingenuous but as was mentioned earlier, I'm probably the first or among a select few of transgender people that they'll meet (especially who they "know" for sure is TG).  So yeah they might even be excited and maybe that explains some of the reaction too.

I have a couple of Millenials myself, and you are spot on. They took the tolerance of their  multicultural city and college campus for granted until they entered the workforce and discoved a different world where they suddenly weren't surrounded by their peers. The landscape has changed considerably since last November --and not for the better.

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Quote from: Shy on May 08, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
I think there are a lot worse things going on in the world than being nice

My thoughts exactly! If people being extra nice to me is what I'll have to deal with, I'll take it. Better that than bigotry.

As someone else, there are far worse things than someone being overly nice. That said, it can come off as little condescending or paternalistic even if the person doesn't intend to come across that way. The truth is men being overly nice if ofen annoying, especially if they are being over the top and playing cutesy with their voice. You know they're actually acting in that way to see if they can get lucky and fu^k you. Not always but very often. Unfortuantely the men who do this óften end up sexually harrassing you in someway or another. THAT SAID, flirting is nice and I enjoy but there's a fine line.

Quote from: Aurorasky on May 08, 2017, 04:47:34 PM
As someone else, there are far worse things than someone being overly nice. That said, it can come off as little condescending or paternalistic even if the person doesn't intend to come across that way. The truth is men being overly nice if ofen annoying, especially if they are being over the top and playing cutesy with their voice. You know they're actually acting in that way to see if they can get lucky and fu^k you. Not always but very often. Unfortuantely the men who do this óften end up sexually harrassing you in someway or another. THAT SAID, flirting is nice and I enjoy but there's a fine line.

who was talking about men? We all was saying in general.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 08, 2017, 04:54:30 PM
who was talking about men? We all was saying in general.

I know no one is talking, I was just sharing my experience of when people are overly nice, particularly men.

I find it quite annoying, because 90% of the time it gets us off topic and I feel like they're dwelling on the subject. I'm sure they mean well, like the "thank you for your service" that Veterans get. However, it not an easy one to respond to... "Errr, you're welcome".

Quote from: Aurorasky on May 08, 2017, 05:08:05 PM
I know no one is talking, I was just sharing my experience of when people are overly nice, particularly men.

and why would that bother you? This thread was about if it bothers you when people are overly nice. Obviously when men are overly nice it's because they are flirting. Woman being nice is complete different which is what we was talking about, you don't need to let people know you get hit on, because I'm sure we all have so it's not like it's a big tadoo.

I really want to say snarky one more time. :) But yes, black women have tended to be. Black men? Not snarky so much no. Whole different story there.

I have had people being over nice like that. It's been a while so I don't really remember how I felt about it. If I remember right it was just a relief not to have open animosity.

I am however completely tired of condescending people. I don't think that it has to do with being trans because there is just no indication that they have a clue. Not the people who somehow just KNOW that my name has been changed to Sweetie or Hon. They feel more like country, down home sorority sisters, or my gay friends. Sigh, I have given up on trying to shake the cliche out of them. I am talking about the people that can somehow tell by looking at me that I have no brain. How!? It's maddening! How can they tell by breathing the same air I do that I have the IQ of a cantaloupe? I am dumbfounded when I haven't even opened my mouth yet and the customer service person who has treated the three people in front of me perfectly normal looks at me and starts to talk to me like I am a lost child at a carnival.

In Nijmegen, Netherlands 90' or 92' I noticed an absolutely gorgeous guy watching the troops from all over the world hike into camp. I worked up my courage and approached him. Spreek je Engels? Sprichst du Englisch? Parles tu anglais? Hablas inglés? The specimen looks at me with a smile that could stop the tides, (certainly stopped my heart) in his warm Scottish brogue said,"I like to think I speak it fairly well."

I wish that I could come up with a line like that for those people!

Ah... Rant over? :)

Just roll with it.  Believe me, it could be worse.

Folks, particularly men, raised in a culture that values 'manliness' and has 'issues' with anything that may be perceived as a threat to 'manliness' respond very differently, even when their living depends on it.  Having a clerk, waitperson, or nurse (!) go out of their way to start and end every sentence with "Sir" when talking to a MtF person is far more annoying than someone being nice to us.  At least when a waitperson does this I can zero out the tip as a hint.

I have not had someone do the over the top thing. I would think that even if a bit annoying it's better to feel they are trying than being bullied by a bigot. There's still way to many of those around.

I don't present in feminine clothes often but when I have a couple of times the checkout lady at a Walmart made an effort to start up a conversation with me. I didn't mind that at all. In fact women seem to notice my small changes and act friendly very often. That I don't mind at all. Guys are starting to look at me a little different. A guy in Walmart the other day while I was looking for training wheels with my daughter, I'd swear had an open mouth stare going on at me. Guy looked again as we came to the end of the isle we were on and he was on the other side of the bike rack looking at other sporting goods. As much as I'm anxious about public encounters, I figured I must be more fem than masculine than I thought right. Lol

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 08, 2017, 05:34:40 PM
and why would that bother you? This thread was about if it bothers you when people are overly nice. Obviously when men are overly nice it's because they are flirting. Woman being nice is complete different which is what we was talking about, you don't need to let people know you get hit on, because I'm sure we all have so it's not like it's a big tadoo.

Jeez girl, I was just sharing my experience. Are you, like, offended by it? You don't get to control what I say and don't. It's ny experience that many men are overly nice in a paternalistic way which is often condescending. Can be even worse if you realize what their intentions are. Regardless, people don't always have the best intentions and that's what I was trying to get at.  It's not a big tadoo but it sure feels different to me, especially because most men treated me like dirt before transition as I was so feminine. I have the right to voice my opinion without having you controlling it.

Not really. I'd much rather a nice person than the idiots. I noticed ppl would be overly nice at the beginning of my transition and i appreciated it, now ppl just act 'normally' when i enter shops and stuff. I've noticed that in interactions with others the rude comments usually came from a cis girl or a gay guy, hardly ever if ever from a straight guy. Like someone else said people probs see the comments and bigotry online directed at us and prob try to make us feel comfortable through being overly nice but you sure can tell when certain  ppl do it just to be shady.

QuoteNice avatar, Robyn. ;) 

Quote from: RobynD on May 08, 2017, 12:30:17 PM
Thank you Ainsley  ;D

I agree. You're a total cutie!  Always so serious... who knew?  lol

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 08, 2017, 05:34:40 PM
and why would that bother you? This thread was about if it bothers you when people are overly nice. Obviously when men are overly nice it's because they are flirting. Woman being nice is complete different which is what we was talking about, you don't need to let people know you get hit on, because I'm sure we all have so it's not like it's a big tadoo.

Honey are you ok? Seems like you got defensive for no reason. I don't see anything wrong with her post nor do I think she was "bragging" about getting hit on. Calm down.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on May 09, 2017, 10:21:10 AM
Honey are you ok? Seems like you got defensive for no reason. I don't see anything wrong with her post nor do I think she was "bragging" about getting hit on. Calm down.

i just don't like people who gloat about things.it came off to me like she was saying "men are overly nice to me because I'm cute, not once did she mention a woman despite everyone else only talking about women. Obviously when men are overly nice they like you anyone should know that so she had no reason bringing that up. I mean women are overly nice for different reasons which is why everyone was talking about women and not men.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 08, 2017, 09:47:21 AM
I've only noticed that with black women and I always look ok at them like they are stupid because ik why they are doing it. White women can be overly nice whether they clock you or not. I work in retail as a cashier and I'm overly nice to people who are Cis gender, just means I'm in really good mood.

No, it doesn't bother me. The above is hideous story, pulling in two strands of what I most hate - racial profiling and rudeness.

Quote from: alex82 on May 09, 2017, 12:31:52 PM
No, it doesn't bother me. The above is hideous story, pulling in two strands of what I most hate - racial profiling and rudeness.

its not racist if that's what I've experienced.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 09, 2017, 12:21:16 PM
i just don't like people who gloat about things.

Darling I'm pretty sure I can show you posts of yours that could be read that way. We shouldn't be judging so harshly especially when you might be losing context of whatever she was trying to say since it's the internet and also, as I said, I didn't see it that way which means it was just your perception. Don't need to get all aggressive. Much love.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 09, 2017, 12:38:01 PM
its not racist if that's what I've experienced.

I didn't call it racism. It said it was racial profiling - which it is, beyond all doubt.

If you care to see the intersectional pressures on black women, and still don't care, then yes that is racism. Otherwise it's just dangerous ignorance, coupled with bad customer service and shot through with hostile arrogance and white privilege.

Members of a hugely marginalized group with multiple and generational socio-economic pressures (particularly in your part of the Deep South), regularly go out of their way to be friendly and inclusive towards you, and you gloat that when they do so, you look at them like they are 'stupid'. That is shameful.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 09, 2017, 12:21:16 PM
i just don't like people who gloat about things.it came off to me like she was saying "men are overly nice to me because I'm cute, not once did she mention a woman despite everyone else only talking about women. Obviously when men are overly nice they like you anyone should know that so she had no reason bringing that up. I mean women are overly nice for different reasons which is why everyone was talking about women and not men.

First off, there is a huge difference between bragging about something happening to you and telling how something makes you feel, which is what I was doing. Second, you are putting words in my mouth I never even included in my post. I never even implied I was cute. I just said how men being overly nice to me made me feel and then spoke about people being paternalistic. Third, men can be overly nice for various reasons and one of them can be sexual advances but it's not the only, which I too implied. Fourth, I am free to bring men up in a discussion that talks about "people being too nice". There was nowhere stated that this was a topic exclusively about women, lol. Fifth,if you feel so bothered to mix men and women together, start up a different thread where you say it's just to talk about women or men. There, problem solved.

I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them at the last several posts.

Quote from: ainsley on May 09, 2017, 02:07:59 PM
I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them at the last several posts.

LOL agreed, OMG, girls please everyone take a deep breath.  I thought when I posted this it might be controversial and stir up discussion.  However, I never thought it would be controversy over racial profiling and gloating/vanity.

Doesn't bother me at all. It's what the world needs now. People in the service industry and in government institutions are not paid to act human anyway, they're paid to act like a system of efficiency. So what one is speaking to, is basically a character and a persona they put on for the business interaction.