Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well, I guess I knew it was going to happen sometime... unfortunately, it finally did happen last week.

I was passing through security at the departure gates at London Heathrow Terminal 5. I was wearing a knee length dress and calf boots, having come straight from a business meeting.

Security had shut off the arch-type metal detectors and were using full body scanners only.  The scanners always make me nervous because of all the trans horror stories, but I've been through a dozen or so without any issue.  I was confident it would be ok, but actually I was about to experience one of those horror stories first hand.

As I stepped out of the scanner, it buzzed and drew a big red 'alarm' circle over my genital area.  The lady repeatedly asked me what I was hiding under my clothes.  I kept telling her there was nothing.  Two more security staff turned up.  They confiscated my belongings and escorted me away to the other end of the terminal building where I was made to wait 20 minutes.  I was separated from my passport, my phone, and even my shoes.

More people turned up and I was asked to remove my clothes, made to spread my legs, and had to submit to a security guard touching my genitals.  I wasn't offered any preference for the gender of the guard performing the search.

I gave them fairly blunt feedback about the need to fix the deficiencies in their scanner so it can tell the difference between a human body and a security threat.  I told them it's humiliating, undignified, and only about one step away from a mandatory sexual assault.  It's not like there is anything the passenger can do to avoid, prevent or fix the issue. 

They didn't appreciate the feedback and reacted quite badly.  We got in a heated argument.  After about ten minutes arguing, suddenly one of the guards just came around and said 'I can see your point.'  I tried to help her understand how the process unfairly targets transgender people for invasive searches, and how that puts us in a position of being highly vulnerable.  I asked her to put herself in my shoes. I think she finally got it.

We walked all the way back to the security station, where another guard had searched all my carry-on luggage in my absence (great). Apparently Heathrow has a requirement that if you set off the alarm on the scanner, they must manually search all of your bags... thanks BSA.  I put all my belonging, clothes, toiletries and underwear back in my bag and left.

I went to the lounge and cried my eyes out.  Then I rang my friend back home in Australia (where it was 3am) and cried some more over the phone.

Someone needs to fix these machines.

Wow, interesting to hear how much worse the British are than even the US.  I mean had this happened in the US they'd have been in violation of a number of TSA policies and you'd have grounds for a pretty hefty lawsuit.  Either way, I super sorry to hear of your experience.  I'm traveling right now and flew here and will be returning home tomorrow fully presenting as my authentic self (I'm only in my male costume while on the client site).  I have TSA Pre-Check so as long as there isn't a problem with the metal detectors like you experienced, I should be able to avoid body scanners.  All I can do is wait and see and hope for the best.

Chin up dear, I know this was an awful and humiliating experience, but you're strong and you will get through.  Hopefully more airports will get the latest scanner technology that is properly able to handle transgender people and not alert erroneously.

What a sad story and hope i never have that experience.(although I have not gone out in public yet) I know you were very embarrassed and humiliated.  That should not happen to anyone like that.

The UK is horrible with the way they treat trans people!  Im sorry that happened to you.

Can you find a civil right group willing to file a complaint on your behalf? There must be some violations in what they did (not offering a choice of an officer sex, searching your bag in your absence, not properly putting everything back, making you wait, shouting at you - whatever, some policy was ignored)...


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Sorry that you had such a traumatic experience.

The agent performing the pat-down is suppose to be the same gender as your presentation (I don't believe there is a "choice"), and if there is any confusion on your presentation they are suppose to ask you discreetly.   Unfortunately the software in the scanners is written to show anomalies compared to generic body images and we are in a grey area of that image.  I'm not sure there is anything that can be done to make this go smoother and still be safe.  There are so many combinations and permutations of trans people that the process would be more confusing if there was a "trans" button on the gender choice and "passing" people would still cause problems.  Never ideal, but my feeling is that we can either bypass the scanner and request a pat-down or take our chances with the scanner....what other choice is there?  Regardless, the agents should be professional and respectful.

That's terrible! My new passport arrived yesterday (yay),  but as I live in the UK this really puts me off ever traveling by air again.

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Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 22, 2017, 09:48:53 AM
As I stepped out of the scanner, it buzzed and drew a big red 'alarm' circle over my genital area.  The lady repeatedly asked me what I was hiding under my clothes.  I kept telling her there was nothing. 

The correct answer to that question is "I am transgender", not "there is nothing."
They were assuming you to be a cis-female, who wouldn't have anything extra in their crotch area.
Yes they treated you horribly, but you needed to be upfront with them.
And NEVER argue with them. It will only escalate the problem.

Exactly, Karyn.We have to use common sense.

I present male and the airport scanners always pick up my breasts. I tell them I'm transgender and never had any real issues. I always get a pat down. I'm not bothered by it, but as far as I recall they usually offer to get a women to do it. I've seen them a bit taken aback and feel awkward a few times, but mostly they just seem busy.

Its not worth making a fuss at the airport. They have all the power and can make life very difficult for you, and there's almost nothing you can do about it. Its not fair, but such is life.

I won't travel or transit to a large number of countries anymore, but I never wanted to visit them before either so its no hardship.

I would not submit to that


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Quote from: Gertrude on June 22, 2017, 02:50:56 PM
I would not submit to that


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Sounds "heroic"...but you have absolutely zero choice in the matter unless you wish to not travel.... and if you've put up some stink to that point you probably wouldn't even have that as an easy out option.

Quote from: Gertrude on June 22, 2017, 02:50:56 PM
I would not submit to that

You'll get arrested and it will only get worse. You may have difficulty traveling after that.

There's not much that would get me to travel in the States these days.  Maybe a family member on life support in a hospital. 

If that were to happen, because I present female, the security agents will press the pink button and the machine will flag my genitals as an anomaly.  No big deal.  I'll just tell them I am trans, that it has flagged my male plumbing, and that I'd prefer to be patted down by a female agent.

Yes, it's a bit embarrassing, having to out myself, but it's not like I am stealth.  I am sure most people can tell I'm trans without the machine.  Cooperating with the system is the least painful approach.

I guess when traveling in male mode, security screeners should be aware of Gynecomastia. Still may mean a pad down.

The bigger issue is that not all countries use the same rules and standards than the US TSA does. I have traveled a lot in and through Europe and in some countries the security checks are more thorough than what we are used in the US. Also they may not have the same policies and procedures. And there are no programs like TSA Pre or even Clear. (at least TSA Pre is something I would recommend for travel in the US. No guarantee, but it does cut down on a lot of the trouble).

Internationally will be interesting. I have my first big international trip coming in August since I am on HRT. Had to re-plan since I do not want a Doha layover. Now it is a Paris layover. Will be interesting..

The very unfortunate issue is that they have all the power. Resisting or fighting them will just make your live complicated in the long run. It is embarrassing and often hurtful to us. The only hope is that with greater acceptance and knowledge thing may change in the far future.

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 22, 2017, 09:48:53 AM
Well, I guess I knew it was going to happen sometime... unfortunately, it finally did happen last week.

I was passing through security at the departure gates at London Heathrow Terminal 5. I was wearing a knee length dress and calf boots, having come straight from a business meeting.

Security had shut off the arch-type metal detectors and were using full body scanners only.  The scanners always make me nervous because of all the trans horror stories, but I've been through a dozen or so without any issue.  I was confident it would be ok, but actually I was about to experience one of those horror stories first hand.

As I stepped out of the scanner, it buzzed and drew a big red 'alarm' circle over my genital area.  The lady repeatedly asked me what I was hiding under my clothes.  I kept telling her there was nothing.  Two more security staff turned up.  They confiscated my belongings and escorted me away to the other end of the terminal building where I was made to wait 20 minutes.  I was separated from my passport, my phone, and even my shoes.

More people turned up and I was asked to remove my clothes, made to spread my legs, and had to submit to a security guard touching my genitals.  I wasn't offered any preference for the gender of the guard performing the search.

I gave them fairly blunt feedback about the need to fix the deficiencies in their scanner so it can tell the difference between a human body and a security threat.  I told them it's humiliating, undignified, and only about one step away from a mandatory sexual assault.  It's not like there is anything the passenger can do to avoid, prevent or fix the issue. 

They didn't appreciate the feedback and reacted quite badly.  We got in a heated argument.  After about ten minutes arguing, suddenly one of the guards just came around and said 'I can see your point.'  I tried to help her understand how the process unfairly targets transgender people for invasive searches, and how that puts us in a position of being highly vulnerable.  I asked her to put herself in my shoes. I think she finally got it.

We walked all the way back to the security station, where another guard had searched all my carry-on luggage in my absence (great). Apparently Heathrow has a requirement that if you set off the alarm on the scanner, they must manually search all of your bags... thanks BSA.  I put all my belonging, clothes, toiletries and underwear back in my bag and left.

I went to the lounge and cried my eyes out.  Then I rang my friend back home in Australia (where it was 3am) and cried some more over the phone.

Someone needs to fix these machines.

I read through your posts, you have recurring problems with the  TSA. I  hope you get it worked out.

Hugs, Devlyn

There is something in me which makes me chuckle. They now have to touch your genitals with the back of their hand. Little bit of payback.

Quote from: KathyLauren on June 22, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
I'll just tell them I am trans, that it has flagged my male plumbing, and that I'd prefer to be patted down by a female agent.

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 22, 2017, 01:04:15 PM
The correct answer to that question is "I am transgender", not "there is nothing."
They were assuming you to be a cis-female, who wouldn't have anything extra in their crotch area.
Yes they treated you horribly, but you needed to be upfront with them.
And NEVER argue with them. It will only escalate the problem.

+1  I've travelled the world and found Heathrow to particularly civilized. You asked to be singled out.

In the US - although the US TSA had several negative incidents with gender identity in the past, more recently I think they have made great improvements on this topic.  Last month at SeaTac airport I was pleasantly surprised to notice a visibly MTF transgender TSA employee working in the security line next to mine.

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 22, 2017, 01:04:15 PM
The correct answer to that question is "I am transgender", not "there is nothing." ...you needed to be upfront with them.
And NEVER argue with them. It will only escalate the problem.

Actually no, Karyn.

1.  I pass and I believe the officer understood me to be a cisgender female.  Regardless, officers should be trained to be aware that transgender people exist and that they should avoid making cisnormative assumptions about the bodies of passengers. There is no onus or obligation on anyone to discuss details about their genital shape or transgender status with strangers in a crowded public area.  I choose not to discuss my genitals in front of crowds of people anymore.

2.  It would have made no difference.  The TSA are required to search an area that triggers an alarm.  You can't talk your way out of a physical search by giving an explanation for the alarm.  The whole of a person's body must be cleared, either by machine or by physical search.  It would not have made any difference if I had disclosed in front of everyone.

3.  I disclosed my transgender status immediately upon entering the privacy of an empty room, before the physical search commenced.

4.  You might not be bothered by having to submit to strangers touching your genitals.  I am. You might be happy to live with a deficient process that unnecessarily targets transgender passengers for invasive searches.  I am not.  The machine needs to be fixed so that it can identify the difference between a human body and a foreign object.  TSA officers should treat all passengers with dignity and respect.  I was respectful and complied with all of their instructions.  I was also mindful not to argue until the TSA officers had completed their search.  But there is still a basic problem with the process that singles out trans passengers.   That issue needs addressing and there are times when (respectful) arguing is necessary to preserve our basic rights and bodily autonomy.

Your post reads a little bit like hegemonic victim blaming.  As if all TSA officers are lovely people and everyone should be delighted with the process.

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 22, 2017, 01:04:15 PM
The correct answer to that question is "I am transgender", not "there is nothing."
They were assuming you to be a cis-female, who wouldn't have anything extra in their crotch area.
Yes they treated you horribly, but you needed to be upfront with them.
And NEVER argue with them. It will only escalate the problem.

Why would anyone assume  when they say you're hiding something under your clothes, that they're talking about a part of your body? Unless they already know how the TSA works? One isn't going to tell them they're transgender and that set off the alarm, in front of other travellers as that's mortifying. Clearly they were told once some basic privacy was granted but that wasn't enough,

Any argument with them should be done in court. Lawsuit. Compensation. At the least, this should make the newspapers.

Personally I wouldn't travel unless I had necessary business overseas that I can't do online.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 22, 2017, 03:45:58 PM
+1  I've travelled the world and found Heathrow to particularly civilized. You asked to be singled out.

I too have travelled the world Jentay.  I lived in London for several years and, on the whole, I like Heathrow too. 

How did I "ask to be singled out"?  What are you suggesting transgender passengers should do differently next time to ensure we are not subject to unnecessary invasive searches?

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 22, 2017, 04:58:49 PM
I too have travelled the world Jentay.  I lived in London for several years and, on the whole, I like Heathrow too. 

How did I "ask to be singled out"?  What are you suggesting transgender passengers should do differently next time to ensure we are not subject to unnecessary invasive searches?

Hey Hon, You need to accept the fact that this:

QuoteAs I stepped out of the scanner, it buzzed and drew a big red 'alarm' circle over my genital area.  The lady repeatedly asked me what I was hiding under my clothes.  I kept telling her there was nothing.  Two more security staff turned up.

is not an acceptable way to handle this. You should have noted to them that you were Transgender when they Inquired. I believe it would have altered your experience. If it hadn't, your complaint would be legitimate. Those people are there to recognize things that are out of the ordinary. Regardless of how much we're in the public eye these days, we are still extraordinary and will bring extra scrutiny. Your being obtuse, set of their alarms. Be frank with these people in the future, it will probably mitigate your problems.

Claire, I am sorry for what you had to go through.
I am heading to USA soon and will not be underdressing. My really big fear is the scanners finding something and being asked to explain. If I was on my own it would be ok but my wife would have massive anxiety and so I will not put her in that situation. Security stations for me are an area in life I will not risk or push my boundaries. I guess I am lucky that I am not transitioning otherwise there would be no choice.
I know the questions that get asked can be interpreted in several ways and I don't think Claire that you did anything wrong. The system and its officious officers do not cater for all diversity of life.
Its very hard when your emotions are running high to think calmly and methodically.
Hugs
Sue.

Quote from: KathyLauren on June 22, 2017, 03:13:45 PM
There's not much that would get me to travel in the States these days. 

Please note that this incident occurred in the UK, NOT the United States.  The US TSA got a number of black eyes a few years back due to very poor treatment of transgender folks.  Since then however, they've spent a stack of taxpayer dollars defining policy, upgrading equipment and training their agents so this crap doesn't happen.  I few things you'll find in the US that would have helped in this situation:

1. Upgraded body scanners that have an improved algorithm for recognizing transgender features (i.e. if they mark you as a woman and it finds a penis, it understands and does not alert).
2. You will only be patted down by an agent of the gender you are presenting.  If there is any doubt, they will ask which agent you prefer.
3. If you're subjected to a "pat-down" you can request it be done in private and you can bring a witness with you.
4. Your bags will only be searched with you present.

I believe the HRC or someone has a comprehensive list of your rights when dealing with the US TSA that details these and other items.  Honestly, I travel all the time in the US for work and have done so multiple times presenting female (even with a passport and drivers license that show me as male).  If you plan ahead, follow the rules, respond honestly and don't argue with agents over things they can't control anyway, you'll almost always get through just fine.

In this situation from the OP, I would have told them flat out right away that it was my penis and that I was transgender.  I certainly wouldn't have started complaining to them about their equipment.  If they did anything that violated policy, I'd have done my best to get through non-confrontationally and then addressed the issues with a supervisor and filed a formal complaint.

If public outing is necessary to avoid having to expose your genitals to a guard whos gender you cant even choose then the system is broken and the terrorists were fundamentally successful.

Quote from: AlyssaJ on June 22, 2017, 05:37:51 PM
> In this situation from the OP, I would have told them flat out right away that it was my penis and that I was transgender.  I certainly wouldn't have started complaining to them about their equipment.

I shouldn't make light of a serious situation, but... this did make me grin.    :-)
I suppose it would be unwise to complain about what's between a TSA employee's legs. 

The body scanners are that detailed that they detect a dick even if you're tucked well? That's like so depressing! I wonder if it can tell a transman is wearing a packer? Those things are like a major invasion of privacy. I would SO cancel my trip before I got naked for anyone!

Quote from: Kendra on June 22, 2017, 05:51:01 PM

Quote from: AlyssaJ on June 22, 2017, 05:37:51 PM
> In this situation from the OP, I would have told them flat out right away that it was my penis and that I was transgender.  I certainly wouldn't have started complaining to them about their equipment.

I shouldn't make light of a serious situation, but... this did make me grin.    :-)
I suppose it would be unwise to complain about what's between a TSA employee's legs.

Badum tsss!  ;D

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 22, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Hey Hon, You need to accept the fact that this:is not an acceptable way to handle this. You should have noted that you were Transgender when they Inquired.

I dont really agree with you.

I was not being obtuse. I chose not to disclose in front of the public. I told them immediately upon entering a private space. I was not being obtuse or obstructive. As far as I am aware, there is no obligation  to have a conversation in a public setting about your genitals, irrespective of whether you are trans or not.

I believe it is possible for officers to treat transgender passengers with dignity, decency and respect, irrespective of whether they disclose in public or private.

Disclosing earlier would not have altered the search process in any way. Officers have to clear the alarm either by machine or by physical inspection. Giving an explanation of 'ohh, I'm trans' and walking off is not possible.


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Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 22, 2017, 06:16:45 PM

I dont really agree with you.

And that's your prerogative. But it doesn't change the fact that you'll keep revisiting the issue if this is how you handle these situations. Reality is what it is and your being indignant in the face of it won't change a thing. It reminds me of an old expression. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.
Be Well. 

Quote from: AlyssaJ on June 22, 2017, 05:37:51 PM

I believe the HRC or someone has a comprehensive list of your rights when dealing with the US TSA that details these and other items. 

If you plan ahead, follow the rules, respond honestly and don't argue with agents over things they can't control anyway, you'll almost always get through just fine.

The NCTE has a list of rights and responsibilities for transgender travellers dealing with airport security. Is that the one you are thinking of?

I plan ahead, respond honestly, and I get through fine almost always too. This time wasn't 'almost always'.

It was a flawed process, a bit of bad luck, and some insensitive officers. And possibly a tuck that wasn't tight enough?

Upgraded body scanners sounds promising. Have you found these to be any better at recognising and understanding gender diverse bodies?  Do you know if there a list of airports/terminals where they are installed so we can plan in advance?



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There have been posts about people informing the security staff before stepping into the scanner. If you do that, they set the scanner to expect the unexpected and you shouldn't need the pat down. If they have to guess at the setting, your going to get a pat down. If you don't want everybody to hear, make a card informing them of this and give it to the security personal before stepping into the scanner.

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 22, 2017, 06:31:10 PM
The NCTE has a list of rights and responsibilities for transgender travellers dealing with airport security. Is that the one you are thinking of?

I plan ahead, respond honestly, and I get through fine almost always too. This time wasn't 'almost always'.

It was a flawed process, a bit of bad luck, and some insensitive officers. And possibly a tuck that wasn't tight enough?

Upgraded body scanners sounds promising. Have you found these to be any better at recognising and understanding gender diverse bodies?  Do you know if there a list of airports/terminals where they are installed so we can plan in advance?

Yes, the NCTE article is the one I was thinking of. To be clear, my post wasn't directed at you and I wasn't suggesting you did anything going in that was wrong.  I think you could have reacted to a couple things better (maybe it would have helped maybe not) but my points were specific to US TSA.  IDK the policies in the UK but clearly they're not as well implemented as the latest TSA approach.

I can't speak from personal experience with body scanners.  I have TSA Pre-Check so I rarely have to go through them.  On the rare occasions I've had to go through a scanner I have let the agent know before I take my position and let them decide how to configure the machine.

Quote from: Julia1996 on June 22, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
The body scanners are that detailed that they detect a dick even if you're tucked well? That's like so depressing! I wonder if it can tell a transman is wearing a packer? Those things are like a major invasion of privacy. I would SO cancel my trip before I got naked for anyone!

Since I've been full time and pass pretty well I've traveled about a dozen times when tucked and it's never gone off on me down there. My long hair has set it off in the back neck area and a female agent had to run her gloved hands through the back of my hair, but that's it.

The only other time I had an issue was well over 3½ years ago when I had just started HRT and had been using Finasteride for over 3 months and I was already developing breasts but still presented male. I was wearing a sports bra underneath my male clothing and my breasts has set it off. I told them I am trans and transitioning when the male TSA agent found the sports bra I was wearing. He just guided the back of his hand around the bra line and was professional and sent me on my way. I think he was more embarrassed than anything else with him not expecting to find feminine breasts.

Is there a program in the UK (similar to TSA PreCheck in the US) that will allow you to avoid body scanners most of the time?

Quote from: Dena on June 22, 2017, 06:34:53 PM
There have been posts about people informing the security staff before stepping into the scanner. If you do that, they set the scanner to expect the unexpected and you shouldn't need the pat down. If they have to guess at the setting, your going to get a pat down. If you don't want everybody to hear, make a card informing them of this and give it to the security personal before stepping into the scanner.

All the machines I have seen only have two buttons - male and female. Where have you seen AIT scanners that the operators can custom configure? Were these in Europe or North America?  I have never seen a configurable one at any airport?

I have also never seen the little blue cards anywhere outside of the USA.  When did you see these at Heathrow?


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I'm sorry about what happened. I really do think that they should just fix those machines so nobody has to go through problems like this.


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If these machines are so sensitive then how do people of different weight go through without setting off the alarm? It will register a penis but won't pick up a beer gut?    :eusa_eh:

Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 04:23:50 AM
It will register a penis but won't pick up a beer gut?    :eusa_eh:

They kind of expect everybody to have a stomach.
The density would also be similar.

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 05:53:12 AM
They kind of expect everybody to have a stomach.
The density would also be similar.

I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics. If it's sensitive enough to register a penis, then the sheer unpredicable  variability of fat deposits on people's bodies would set it off. Oh but they can tell the difference then funnily enough. It sounds like they could damn well see on the full body scanner that this is the person's genitalia and out of sheer malice wanted to humiliate the OP. 

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 22, 2017, 06:27:19 PM
And that's your prerogative. But it doesn't change the fact that you'll keep revisiting the issue if this is how you handle these situations. Reality is what it is and your being indignant in the face of it won't change a thing. It reminds me of an old expression. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. 

I was reflecting on your comments throughout today.  I won't press the point any further because I doubt we are going to agree but your post still seems wrong to me.

It reminds me of a men's rights activist telling a young woman that 'if she is going to go out dressed in short skirts, she can expect to be harassed by men.  If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.'

Whilst both statements are true, they shift the focus off the inequality and place blame on the victim.  Instead of emphasizing the need for systemic change and discussing means to make it happen, they focus blame on the person who has suffered the indignity.

In my mind, women and girls are entitled to dress however they are comfortable (provided basic decency is met).  The focus of critcism should be on the patriarchial legacies that objectify female bodies, not slut-shaming the women or girls who live with it.

Similarly, I believe transgender passengers are entitled to retain their privacy and not disclose their transgender status in front of their business colleagues or other travellers.  I believe transgender passengers should not be unncessarily singled out for invasive searches by a machine that does not understand  what it means to be trans.  The focus of criticism should be on improving the system so that trans people are treated with dignity and respect.

Quote from: staciM on June 22, 2017, 03:07:04 PM
Sounds "heroic"...but you have absolutely zero choice in the matter unless you wish to not travel.... and if you've put up some stink to that point you probably wouldn't even have that as an easy out option.

You don't know me. They could jail me and wouldn't submit. I won't be violated, not without a fight. I'm no ones slave or subject.


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Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 06:01:07 AM
I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics. If it's sensitive enough to register a penis, then the sheer unpredicable  variability of fat deposits on people's bodies would set it off. Oh but they can tell the difference then funnily enough. It sounds like they could damn well see on the full body scanner that this is the person's genitalia and out of sheer malice wanted to humiliate the OP.

Yup


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It's regrettable that passenger screening is necessary to prevent some pretty awful people from doing some pretty horrible things to the rest of us.  I travel a lot overseas in my work, and as someone physically transitioning I am often anxious passing through the security points.  So far the extent of things has been brushing across my breasts to figure out what's going on there, as I present (more or less) male for now.  When I start presenting female, I can expect issues over the penis; I'm not looking forward to that.  But I do accept the necessity of the screening, and I have been impressed in recent years with obvious efforts by TSA to improve efficiency and to treat all passengers with respect.  I can't comment about the situation outside the U.S. at specific airports, but I support the security screening regime, while always happy for additional improvements. 

Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 06:01:07 AM
I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics.

Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 10:32:45 AM
Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Do fat people have to strip, like the OP?  :eusa_eh: 

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 03:07:50 AM

Quote from: Dena on June 22, 2017, 06:34:53 PM
There have been posts about people informing the security staff before stepping into the scanner. If you do that, they set the scanner to expect the unexpected and you shouldn't need the pat down. If they have to guess at the setting, your going to get a pat down. If you don't want everybody to hear, make a card informing them of this and give it to the security personal before stepping into the scanner.

All the machines I have seen only have two buttons - male and female. Where have you seen AIT scanners that the operators can custom configure? Were these in Europe or North America?  I have never seen a configurable one at any airport?

I have also never seen the little blue cards anywhere outside of the USA.  When did you see these at Heathrow?


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Hope this helps:

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
I am pre-op MTF with a female name and an F on my drivers license, and I have flown a few times.

On most of those trips I got through getting scanned with no issues. Twice I triggered the "anomaly" detector.

The first time that happened the TSA lady told me that the detector had detected an anomaly in my crotch area so I immediately told her that I am transgender. She got a look of disgust on her face, redirected me back into the scanner, and then proceed to yell "MALE" at the hapless agent running the scan machine loud enough for every one else around to hear.

Needless to say - that was NOT a fun experience.

I found out that there is a little blue TSA card you can print and you can write health reasons that might affect the security search. I printed one of those cards out and wrote TRANSGENDER on it in big block letters.

The next time I went through TSA and stepped into the scanner I held the card up to the TSA guy running the scanner and he said "roger that" and he apparently pushed the right button. Then my boobs got groped by female TSA agent, and I was directed to get a hand swab at the bomb detection thing afterward. I don't know if the extra scrutiny was because of the card or whether it was a random thing.

While the second experience wasn't exemplary it was far better than the first experience.

I would suggest that all trans people traveling by air print out one of those cards before running the TSA gamut and write TRANSGENDER on it.

Since we can't put links in posts here just search for "tsa disability health card" and you'll find the .pdf.

The thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193371.msg1724136.html#msg1724136

The card (PDF): https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 06:44:17 AM
I was reflecting on your comments throughout today.  I won't press the point any further because I doubt we are going to agree but your post still seems wrong to me.

It reminds me of a men's rights activist telling a young woman that 'if she is going to go out dressed in short skirts, she can expect to be harassed by men.  If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.'

Whilst both statements are true, they shift the focus off the inequality and place blame on the victim.  Instead of emphasizing the need for systemic change and discussing means to make it happen, they focus blame on the person who has suffered the indignity.

In my mind, women and girls are entitled to dress however they are comfortable (provided basic decency is met).  The focus of critcism should be on the patriarchial legacies that objectify female bodies, not slut-shaming the women or girls who live with it.

Similarly, I believe transgender passengers are entitled to retain their privacy and not disclose their transgender status in front of their business colleagues or other travellers.  I believe transgender passengers should not be unncessarily singled out for invasive searches by a machine that does not understand  what it means to be trans.  The focus of criticism should be on improving the system so that trans people are treated with dignity and respect.

Well....sorry you didn't care for my opinion. I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

The easiest way to do the notification to the TSA personnel handling screening is to use the TSA Medical Notification Card.

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf (https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf)

In the 'condition' field just put "TRANSGENDER PERSON".  I carry a laminated version and hand it to the scan operator when flagged.  They should handle it quietly and discretely, per their internal policy.

(https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf)

Oh, it sounds MUCH better when you say it!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

When I was leaving Japan from a trip many years ago I had to stand in these 2 boxes while someone looked up my skirt. I was already a post op so I wasn't worried about anything being found but it sucked and it was stupid.


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Reality is...the TSA sucks for everyone. Indignancies abound for Cis, Trans and the Diabled alike. Considering it's such a vast beaurcracy, and given that were unlikely to change it without much consternation and effort, it's nice to be able to go in forearmed. Things like the link that Michelle posted up are awesome and give real value to threads like this. Sooooo thanks, to those who've posted up viable solutions. Cool, helpful stuff!

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

Amen sister.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

That,s exactly how I try to live. Very rarely do I have a problem.

Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 04:23:50 AM
If these machines are so sensitive then how do people of different weight go through without setting off the alarm? It will register a penis but won't pick up a beer gut?    :eusa_eh:

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 10:32:45 AM
Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Actually they do. My single experience with one detected a below the waist tummy that wasn't that big and my oversized shoulders. I am 6'2" and was about 180 pounds at the time so I wasn't overweight. A female agent checked me out so I assume the woman button was pressed on the machine. After a little poking in public, I was pronounced fit to travel and was sent to wait for my plane to board.

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 03:07:50 AM
All the machines I have seen only have two buttons - male and female. Where have you seen AIT scanners that the operators can custom configure? Were these in Europe or North America?  I have never seen a configurable one at any airport?

If they are aware of the discrepancy in advance, they have some latitude in interpreting the results. Other members have been waved through inspection with the machine detecting the difference because they were warned in advance that there might be a problem. It boils down to if you never want to go through the machine or inspection, travel by train, car or boat.

Full disclosure can only enhance your outcome. If you go in with an "I have rights" attitude, someone is going to display an "I'm in control" attitude. Particularly since the folks that do these jobs aren't necessarily the most enlightened or erudite individuals you're going to encounter. They have a difficult job to perform and deal with tons of variables every day,. For me its easier to give those things to Caesar.....that are Caesars. I just want to get where I'm going with the least amount of hassle I can. Traveling is a trial without any added nuisance. I'll pick my battles and frankly, for me, this is no place to reinvent the wheel.

The unfortunate thing its that doesn't make you safer, it just makes life difficult for everyone for no good reason. Just the usual politics and money.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/01/tsa-business-security-theater-not-security/357599/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150602/05474131176/study-tsas-security-theater-troupes-missed-95-smuggled-weapons-explosives.shtml

I'm not going to fight over it as I've got other priorities in life. I'll just do whatever I have to to get through it with a minimum of fuss, though it's all getting to the point I'm cutting out more countries from my travel plans.

You couldn't pay me to go through a full body x ray scanner. Those things give you cancer.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
Well....sorry you didn't care for my opinion. I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

Uh-huh. A pragmatic woman who feels the need to jump into conversations and condescendingly demand that everyone else adopt the same balance of priorities between privacy and dignity.

I choose not to disclose in public places and especially not in front of my business colleagues. I don't believe anyone should be treated in an undignified manner because of that.

You seem to think everyone should have the same priorities and deal with things just like you do.

I don't have a victim mentality either. But I'm capable of noticing imperfect processes that unfairly humiliate transgender travellers and calling them out as problematic.

How frequently do you travel internationally? How often do you travel through Heathrow T5? Do you think that the frequency of travel through overseas airports might be more of a factor of whether you have have a bad experience than when you choose to disclose?

There is a huge difference between saying

"I travel a bit too... here's how I deal with things... it works well for me...perhaps it might help you too,"

And saying

"You must do things my way. You asked for it. Your way of doing things is 'not acceptable'. If you had done things my way, your complaint would be legitimate."

One of those is supportive. The other is the height of paternalistic arrogance.

Awwwww, Claire. You shouldn't take things so personally ::). Certainly there's no need to insult me. I've expressed my opinion in an open forum. Threads here are not private fiefdoms. If all you want is commiseration, perhaps you should have titled your thread "pity party for Claire...only post if you think I'm right"
     Your own brand of misogyny points to some weird idealized idea of the helpless fawning and indignant female being put upon by the bad men of the world, an archetype that I find quite repugnant. Perhaps you should stick to the "which bra and panty should I wear?" threads. You may find you'll be less prone to hysterics there.
      You've chosen to make this personal and insult me. I did not imply anything about your character or lack thereof.  You on the other hand have chosen to expose yourself as a petulant child in your previous post.
     I've merely stated how I'd handle things and how I'd behave in a given situation. None of that warranted your baseless attacks on me.   

I think Michelle has a sensible suggestion - I wasn't aware the US TSA published a Medical Notification Card format.
Other countries probably have something similar, or you can re-use this one until they do. A card like that allows you to inform security if you decide to do so, without making a public announcement.

I have traveled quite a bit including international, and have occasionally run into frustrations that have nothing to do with gender.  And this reminds me - on a flight from Los Angeles to Sydney, a male co-worker I was traveling with was stopped at the security line.  TSA informed him loudly enough I could hear their exact words: "sir you have an anomaly in your pants".  He broke out laughing, but then quieted down when he realized it ain't a good place to start joking around.  Nothing major happened, they did the pat-down as he stood there silently with a "yeah so I am well endowed down there" smirk.  There was nothing in his pants, other than what he was born with.  This was 5 years ago before machines were upgraded and US TSA procedures improved.  If he had made a scene or refused to be patted down, he probably would have been stuck there with his anomaly. 

Other forms of prejudice have caused people to make calculated sacrifices with great social impact - for example getting arrested for refusing to sit in the back of the bus, or interracial marriage (when I was born, my existence was a felony in several US states).  But I don't think missing a flight will cause any meaningful improvement in the way transgender people are treated.  I am not trying to downplay the frustration of things that can and do happen, but I follow the security rules and do my best to keep the line moving. 

Making the best of a flawed system seems like a fine way to keep that crappy system going. Personally I respect people who kick up a stink and speak out, far more than I respect the individualist who only cares about their personal convenience and will stay silent or in the face of institutional mistreatment. Or worse, defend said institutions.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 05:17:09 PM
I've expressed my opinion in an open forum....I've merely stated how I'd handle things and how I'd behave in a given situation.

No, you didn't.

Phrases like 'you asked for it' and 'your approach to disclosure is unacceptable' are not opinions or constructive offerings.

They are gas-lighting.

The words 'you asked for it' have been used to delegitimise so many social issues in human history.

I'll just ignore the rest of your patronising remarks.
This isn't about my identity or character. It's about a problem with TSA processes at foreign ports.






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Quote from: Kendra on June 23, 2017, 05:52:01 PM
I think Michelle has a sensible suggestion - I wasn't aware the US TSA published a Medical Notification Card format.
Other countries probably have something similar, or you can re-use this one until they do. A card like that allows you to inform security if you decide to do so, without making a public announcement.

I have traveled quite a bit including international, and have occasionally run into frustrations that have nothing to do with gender.  And this reminds me - on a flight from Los Angeles to Sydney, a male co-worker I was traveling with was stopped at the security line.  TSA informed him loudly enough I could hear their exact words: "sir you have an anomaly in your pants".  He broke out laughing, but then quieted down when he realized it ain't a good place to start joking around.  Nothing major happened, they did the pat-down as he stood there silently with a "yeah so I am well endowed down there" smirk.  There was nothing in his pants, other than what he was born with.  This was 5 years ago before machines were upgraded and US TSA procedures improved.  If he had made a scene or refused to be patted down, he probably would have been stuck there with his anomaly. 

Other forms of prejudice have caused people to make calculated sacrifices with great social impact - for example getting arrested for refusing to sit in the back of the bus, or interracial marriage (when I was born, my existence was a felony in several US states).  But I don't think missing a flight will cause any meaningful improvement in the way transgender people are treated.  I am not trying to downplay the frustration of things that can and do happen, but I follow the security rules and do my best to keep the line moving.

So you would submit to undressing and being touched in the genitals?


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Carrying a card that discloses your transgender status and requests some discretion in public sounds like a pretty good idea then... particularly if you are travelling with business associates.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will get you out of a body search by a screening officer. And it's not guaranteed to ensure you are treated any more respectfully. But hopefully it will bring the officer to a state of awareness of the situation quickly without having public conversations...


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I understand now what you are doing - I've said all I will say.  Have a great day.