Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, y'all. I'm from the other side of the pond (FTM) but I was talking to one of my MTF friends about this and thought I'd ask you ladies. A lot of people in the trans community know that it's common for an FTM to go from being a lesbian to a gay man as he transitions, but is the reverse common in the MTF community?

My friend started estrogen about four months ago. Before transitioning, she identified as a very feminine gay man and had no interest in women. You could imagine her sleeping with women just as much as you could imagine Sean Hayes doing so. :laugh: So she always assumed that she'd be a straight woman after transitioning.

But now she says that she feels like she has almost ZERO attraction to men anymore and is instead extremely drawn to women, especially sexually. She says she feels like being attracted to women makes her feel more masculine, which she doesn't like, but every time she goes out with a man nowadays, she is left cold and wishes instead to be with a woman.

As someone that was bisexual both before and after my transition, I can't totally relate to her predicament.

Do any of you have any words of advice? Is this common for a MTF?

A mtf can be straight,  gay, bi or Asexual. I have heard of sexual attraction shifting sometimes when a person starts hrt. But I think they had to have some inclination for it if they realized it or not. I was attracted to only men before hrt and I still am after hrt.

I know very little about FTM trans folk. So I've never heard that before.

For MTF, a few studies hint at about 70% staying in relationships with women, either cis or trans. Of the trans women I know, most are with women. But I know a few in relationships with men too.

Instead of saying "gay" or "straight," a better set of terminology is "androphilia" and "gynephilia," i.e., Androphilia is the attraction to men or masculinity; gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity.

This avoids all these weird labels like "pan-sexual" etc.

I'm into women, both cis and trans. I've never been into guys.


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I, too, am gynephillic.  I was (apparently) a straight man.  Now, I'm a lesbian trans-woman. 

Partly, I suppose, that is due to my committment to my wife and her decision to stick with me.  But it is not just loyalty.  I really think that, if she had left me, I would not have been attracted to men.  Most men repel me, and the rest bore me.

I was a veryy femme gay guy prior to transitioning. Now I'm a lesbian. It happens and isn't uncommon. Hormones had nothing to do with the change, as even pretransistion, I was just as likely to sleep with a woman as I was a man - I also acknowledge that the femme guy was just a cover, I've never been that in to men.

Quote from: RavenMoon on June 22, 2017, 04:55:48 PM
Instead of saying "gay" or "straight," a better set of terminology is "androphilia" and "gynephilia," i.e., Androphilia is the attraction to men or masculinity; gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity.

This avoids all these weird labels like "pan-sexual" etc.

It also gives the " ->-bleeped-<-" crowd a target, and let's not do that..

Quote from: kelly_aus on June 22, 2017, 05:44:48 PM
It also gives the " ->-bleeped-<-" crowd a target, and let's not do that..

My feeling is to not dumb things down. Like the people who don't use "transsexual" because they think it means sexual intercourse. That's their ignorance. I'm not lowering my self to that level.

Androphilia and gynephilia are the proper accepted term especially when used for transsexuals.

From Wikipedia:

"The terms are objectively used for identifying a person's object of attraction without attributing a sex assignment or gender identity to the person. This can avoid bias inherent in normative conceptualizations of human sexuality, avoid confusion and offense when describing people in non-western cultures, as well as when describing intersex and transgender people, especially those who are nonbinary or otherwise falling outside the gender binary."

Because think about it. I grew up a "straight" guy. After I transition I'll be a lesbian. But my sexual attraction has not changed! So gynephilia makes more sense.

Also I think there's a little something to  ->-bleeped-<-, especially when it comes to cross dressers. But even in general. Ever watch women watching themselves dance? Lol. There's no need to avoid sensuality. I like looking sexy. I have great legs and love looking at them. Lol.




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But it also assumes that the general public will know what those terms mean - most don't..

Quote from: kelly_aus on June 22, 2017, 06:20:44 PM
But it also assumes that the general public will know what those terms mean - most don't..

Yes. I never heard of those terms. If someone used one before I had read this I totally would have no clue. For a lot of people who didnt grow up with the terms cis, non binary, gender fluid,  pansexual, homoflexible and gender queer it like totally confuses them. My parents get confused with those terms. So like adding 2 more wouldn't help. Lol

I tried very hard to repress who I am and used anything I could to hide who I was. I had a boyfriend in High School and hooked up with guys in college. Enter a breakdown and I then hid. I married and used my imagination to get by with sex. When I came out I dropped my façade of heterio male for who I am  heterio female.

Quote from: Rachel Lynn on June 22, 2017, 07:00:52 PM
I tried very hard to repress who I am and used anything I could to hide who I was. I had a boyfriend in High School and hooked up with guys in college. Enter a breakdown and I then hid. I married and used my imagination to get by with sex. When I came out I dropped my façade of heterio male for who I am  heterio female.

I'm glad you can be who you are now. I don't know how you managed to even do that. Before I transitioned there was a girl at school who liked me. That any girl would have liked me is amazing in itself. She was like 4 inches taller than me for one thing. She was really into those twilight movies and shows so all I can think is that she liked my skin and eye color because of that. Anyway a couple of people had suggested trying sex with a girl at least once. But I couldn't. I didn't even like thinking about it! I can't imagine how hard marriage was for you.
Julia

Hi Bacon!!!

Mmmmm bacon!!!!...hope all is well on your side of the pond!!!

I went from a lifetime of relationships with women (while living the male life I was born into)....and always perceived my attraction as normal.. Very son after I had started my M2F transition... Going out with men held a lot of appeal to me and here I am a few years later married to the greatest guy in the world...my ex girlfriend of 17 years was my maid of honor!!!.... My attraction to women just kinda did the slow fade!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley 😀

I'm finding an odd shift in my perceptions. I'm finding that at least some of my attraction to a woman's body over the years wasn't so much that I wanted to be with her - some of it was that I wanted to BE her! Still sorting all this out, and enjoying the process...


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Should I have GRS etc., I think I'd be a lesbian.  While I've had sex with men, I much prefer women and I hope that would continue.  However, I am aware some trans switch sides in this respect.

I think there's something special about two women exploring each other, that I don't see with men.

I discovered my own sexual preference (bi) before coming out as a transwoman. I had clung to the idea of masculinity and heterosexuality for so long because it helped me to deal with the distress of not feeling right in my own skin. Once I let go of that and embraced who I was, it made me happier. I'm much happier with women, but sometimes yearn for a man, so I also can't fully relate. I would say that she just needs to explore her avenues and see if she is still not into men by whatever means in which she feels comfortable (dating/flirting/etc.).

Quote from: Mikaela on June 23, 2017, 07:11:38 AM
I'm finding an odd shift in my perceptions. I'm finding that at least some of my attraction to a woman's body over the years wasn't so much that I wanted to be with her - some of it was that I wanted to BE her! Still sorting all this out, and enjoying the process...


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This is something I struggled with for a long time but I know what I used to think about during love making...or try not to think about more likely...

Once I managed to finally accept that given the right equipment, I would certainly like the company of a gentleman, for the purposes of close relations  :icon_biggrin:....I went Phew!! It makes sense to me...it felt right.

Quote from: Mikaela on June 23, 2017, 07:11:38 AM
I'm finding an odd shift in my perceptions. I'm finding that at least some of my attraction to a woman's body over the years wasn't so much that I wanted to be with her - some of it was that I wanted to BE her! Still sorting all this out, and enjoying the process...


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Hi Mikaela!

This was my take on what was going on... A friend told me that my attraction to women which I had always viewed as normal was really just " hero worship " and seeking out female energy. Anne Vitale's writings seem to say the same thing as well... I had noticed as my attraction began to fade, when I would look at a woman that I would previously been attracted to, my thoughts were more just envy... As in, I wish I had her hair or her body etc... Exploration of self... The last frontier!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 22, 2017, 07:31:54 PM
Hi Bacon!!!

Mmmmm bacon!!!!...hope all is well on your side of the pond!!!

I went from a lifetime of relationships with women (while living the male life I was born into)....and always perceived my attraction as normal.. Very son after I had started my M2F transition... Going out with men held a lot of appeal to me and here I am a few years later married to the greatest guy in the world...my ex girlfriend of 17 years was my maid of honor!!!.... My attraction to women just kinda did the slow fade!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley 😀

I find this very interesting.  I've only had relationships with women and can't even imagine myself (as I currently am) with a man.  However, when I imagine or fantasize about being a woman I always imagine myself with men.  Was that your experience too?

Quote from: baseballfan on June 23, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
However, when I imagine or fantasize about being a woman I always imagine myself with men.  Was that your experience too?

No, it was always with another woman.

Quote from: Bacon on June 22, 2017, 04:35:20 PM
Hi, y'all. I'm from the other side of the pond (FTM) but I was talking to one of my MTF friends about this and thought I'd ask you ladies. A lot of people in the trans community know that it's common for an FTM to go from being a lesbian to a gay man as he transitions, but is the reverse common in the MTF community?

My friend started estrogen about four months ago. Before transitioning, she identified as a very feminine gay man and had no interest in women. You could imagine her sleeping with women just as much as you could imagine Sean Hayes doing so. :laugh: So she always assumed that she'd be a straight woman after transitioning.

But now she says that she feels like she has almost ZERO attraction to men anymore and is instead extremely drawn to women, especially sexually. She says she feels like being attracted to women makes her feel more masculine, which she doesn't like, but every time she goes out with a man nowadays, she is left cold and wishes instead to be with a woman.

As someone that was bisexual both before and after my transition, I can't totally relate to her predicament.

Do any of you have any words of advice? Is this common for a MTF?

Hi Bacon

Don't know how common it is but I think for many of us we do what we have to fit into our lives. In my head I was always the woman...my shift has been to being honest with myself. I think back now about the crushes I have had a certain guys during my life...not that I would have seen it that way at the time.

Now I accept that I am attacked to men and my attraction for women sexually is fading...it never really was there because I never like d it that much...Kinda makes sense now ;D

Quote from: baseballfan on June 23, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
I find this very interesting.  I've only had relationships with women and can't even imagine myself (as I currently am) with a man.  However, when I imagine or fantasize about being a woman I always imagine myself with men.  Was that your experience too?

My attraction to men has certainly come much more to the fore recently and I find my attraction for women is fading..at least sexually...I always imagined myself with a man but as a woman. That has never changed, I didn't see what all the fuss about sex was but then I have the wrong equipment...I felt this way long before I started HRT but I would not have expressed it prior to HRT.

Quote from: baseballfan on June 23, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
I find this very interesting.  I've only had relationships with women and can't even imagine myself (as I currently am) with a man.  However, when I imagine or fantasize about being a woman I always imagine myself with men.  Was that your experience too?

Hey Jessica!!!

Yes... I had never felt gay as a man or a desire to have a sexual experience with a man as a man but.... I had always had fantasies about being with a man as a woman... Once I started transition, I decided to explore that and things just kind of took off from there!!!... Presto Change-O!!!!

Onward we go!!!!

Ashley :)

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 23, 2017, 09:51:42 AM
Hey Jessica!!!

Yes... I had never felt gay as a man or a desire to have a sexual experience with a man as a man but.... I had always had fantasies about being with a man as a woman... Once I started transition, I decided to explore that and things just kind of took off from there!!!... Presto Change-O!!!!

Onward we go!!!!

Ashley :)

Wow good for you.  Isnt sexuality crazy?

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 23, 2017, 09:51:42 AM
Hey Jessica!!!

Yes... I had never felt gay as a man or a desire to have a sexual experience with a man as a man but.... I had always had fantasies about being with a man as a woman... Once I started transition, I decided to explore that and things just kind of took off from there!!!... Presto Change-O!!!!

Onward we go!!!!

Ashley :)

And I love being called by that name!  :)

Quote from: baseballfan on June 23, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
Wow good for you.  Isnt sexuality crazy?

It is indeed! ... I went through a brief intermediary period where I felt like my attraction to others was more on a case by case basis as far as gender and orientation of my partners.. I did have some experiences with crossdresser friends and transwomen but as of today I feel like a confirmed hetrosexual woman... I can only really picture myself with a man... Actually The Man!!... My Husband!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

Yeah, I got crushes on boys all my life, but it was more envy, or wanting a male pal to hang with.
I'm asexual, or demisexual-after two years of close association, so even though males were the only ones willing to wait for me until I felt sexual attraction, I suppose a very persistent woman would have worked as well, or maybe better.

I now consider myself nonbinary partial transmale, and think both males and females are beautiful, but without feeling lust.
But when I finally get used to someone long enough to feel sexual attraction, my libido is scary strong and I can play either role.
This leads me to believe that I'd be pansexual if not asexual, so I suppose it doesn't matter which gender I marry. It's hard to even date, though, if the thought of sex is nauseating, although I think I could actually kiss a female.

I'm a heterosexual female. I'm not attracted to gay men but would like to settle down with a man one day once I have fully transitioned. That's of course if I could find someone to put up with me ;D

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

Quote from: baseballfan on June 23, 2017, 09:06:28 AM
I find this very interesting.  I've only had relationships with women and can't even imagine myself (as I currently am) with a man.  However, when I imagine or fantasize about being a woman I always imagine myself with men.  Was that your experience too?

Never, ever for me. I don't even like most men as people. Lol. And I find body and facial hair repulsive.


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Quote from: tgirlamc on June 23, 2017, 08:50:00 AM
Hi Mikaela!

This was my take on what was going on... A friend told me that my attraction to women which I had always viewed as normal was really just " hero worship " and seeking out female energy. Anne Vitale's writings seem to say the same thing as well... I had noticed as my attraction began to fade, when I would look at a woman that I would previously been attracted to, my thoughts were more just envy... As in, I wish I had her hair or her body etc... Exploration of self... The last frontier!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

I'm definitely enjoying the interplay of the masculine/feminine from a new perspective now. Currently I lean towards feeling like I'm a lesbian, but I'm not sure. I used to be drawn to dalliances with men (with my wife's knowledge), but lately I've lost all interest there. I'm curious to see where that will go. Maybe the type of man I'm attracted to will shift? Maybe the way I interact with them will shift? I don't know. I don't worry about it. For now, with my greatly diminished libido (which, btw, I'm enjoying on it's own merits!), I'm just letting things flow.


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I really appreciate this discussion. I've recently started treating trans patients with hormones and hysterectomies. I'm a gynecologist but I don't do gender reassignment surgery. I've always had an affinity for gender nonconforming folks and being in here has really helped me understand my patients and speak respectfully to them and their partners. Thank you very much.


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Quote from: Perle on June 23, 2017, 08:19:48 PM
I really appreciate this discussion. I've recently started treating trans patients with hormones and hysterectomies. I'm a gynecologist but I don't do gender reassignment surgery. I've always had an affinity for gender nonconforming folks and being in here has really helped me understand my patients and speak respectfully to them and their partners. Thank you very much.


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Awesome that you're doing the real research! Welcome!


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Quote from: Bacon on June 22, 2017, 04:35:20 PM
Hi, y'all. I'm from the other side of the pond (FTM) but I was talking to one of my MTF friends about this and thought I'd ask you ladies. A lot of people in the trans community know that it's common for an FTM to go from being a lesbian to a gay man as he transitions, but is the reverse common in the MTF community?

That is actually an inaccurate myth that seems to stubbornly persist. Common to go from lesbian to gay man is entirely too absolute. There are some FTMs that report an ability to see men as a viable option only after starting T but it is 100% not "common". And I would argue they most likely had the capability to be attracted to men before but the desire to act on it was extremely low. Testosterone ramps up the libido and I really believe it has a ton do with sexual energy and desire. It is not a coincidence to me that FTMs who have sex with men tend to be less dysphoric about their genitalia. Perhaps they are suddenly horny all of the time and the plumbing connects quite well with a cis male. Also women may no longer be able to match their level of sexual desire. In terms of dating and love, being comfortable with yourself and feeling whole does wonders. Maybe they find it easier to date men now that they are finally in the body that matches their soul.

I identified as exclusively lesbian before, I now am exclusively heterosexual.

It's totally interesting how sexuality can change. I am straight. I've only ever been attracted to guys. I guess I'm boring compared to some of you.  Lol

I came out as gay when I was 14, trans when I was 16, dated guys then met the most amazing woman you could ever imagine when I was 18...




...We've been together nearly 5 years and married nearly 2. I couldn't imagine it any other way now :)

One of the subjects that really interests me. In my estimate sexual preference and attraction is a spectrum or a scale with a sliding button. It moves back and fourth some amount our entire lives. Still people do need their labels, don't they? and with regard to sex they really, really like them.

Label wise it was easier for me, i was bi before transition and i am bi after. I am starting to like the more inclusive term of pansexual though. Being a bi presenting man and a bi woman, are fairly different experiences though.

Sexual preference evokes strong feelings in people, even other peoples sexual preference. This is witnessed by the fact that we sometimes use very strong words like "repulsed" etc when contemplating physical intimacy with one person or another. Not saying this is wrong, it is just interesting and i sometimes think it would serve us better to look on things more softly than that. I'm not sure why i feel that but i do.

Well said Robyn!!! :)