Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This coming-out model, by Devor (1997), consists of 14 identity development stages for female-to-male transsexuals:

    * Abiding anxiety — unfocused gender and sex discomfort.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about suitability of assigned gender and sex.
    * Identity comparison — seeking and weighing alternative female identities.
    * Discovery — learning that female-to-male transsexualism exists.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about the authenticity of own transsexualism.
    * Identity comparison — testing transsexual identity using transsexual reference group.
    * Identity tolerance — identity as probably transsexual.
    * Delay — waiting for changed circumstances; looking for confirmation of transsexual identity.
    * Identity acceptance — transsexual identity established.
    * Delay — transsexual identity deepens; no longer identify as women and females.
    * Transition — Changing genders, between sexes.
    * Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men.
    * Integration — transsexuality most visible.
    * Identity pride — publicly transsexual.


-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:

Thanks for sharing, Emerald.
Sounds complicated though.

What about those who want to go stealth and never identify as a transsexual man, but just a man?

I agree with milo. I wouldn't want to be labeled as "transsexual" when I reach my destiny as a boy...

Quote from: Emerald on November 27, 2007, 09:37:34 PM

    * Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men.
    * Integration — transsexuality most visible.
    * Identity pride — publicly transsexual.
[/color][/b]

-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:

what? why does he have to identify as a transexual man and not just a man? why does he have to be public or take pride?
sorry but this is not an attitude i or others agree with...
R :police:

*nod* Frankly, I'd probably be out of work for a very long time if I were openly transsexual.
Plus, as a transman, I want to be accepted among bio men as a "real man" and identifying myself publically as a transman makes that harder. It puts me into the group of transmen, rather than men. I just want to be a man. If I stop making the distinction myself, eventually, so will they.

same with me... i dont id as m2f... or transwoman... im just a girl... if you transition to be a trans man or woman... your doing it for the wrong reasons mang...
R :police:

Quote from: OtokoSuki on November 28, 2007, 06:18:53 PM
I agree with milo. I wouldn't want to be labeled as "transsexual" when I reach my destiny as a boy...

yep. I dont call myself trans anymore.  I'm a dude & thats all theres to it.

Quote from: Chris on November 29, 2007, 12:31:25 AM

Quote from: OtokoSuki on November 28, 2007, 06:18:53 PM
I agree with milo. I wouldn't want to be labeled as "transsexual" when I reach my destiny as a boy...

yep. I dont call myself trans anymore.  I'm a dude & thats all theres to it.

Same. Not ashamed of it and will answer questions if asked, but I'm just a guy. A regular guy. That's what I did this for.

Dennis

Quote from: Dennis on November 29, 2007, 02:33:54 AM

Quote from: Chris on November 29, 2007, 12:31:25 AM

Quote from: OtokoSuki on November 28, 2007, 06:18:53 PM
I agree with milo. I wouldn't want to be labeled as "transsexual" when I reach my destiny as a boy...

yep. I dont call myself trans anymore.  I'm a dude & thats all theres to it.

Same. Not ashamed of it and will answer questions if asked, but I'm just a guy. A regular guy. That's what I did this for.

Dennis

Indeed.  Like I have said a zillion times, some of us transition to live normal lives as men and/or women; others to live their lives as transsexual (even after SRS  :-\)

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Chris on November 29, 2007, 12:31:25 AM

Quote from: OtokoSuki on November 28, 2007, 06:18:53 PM
I agree with milo. I wouldn't want to be labeled as "transsexual" when I reach my destiny as a boy...

yep. I dont call myself trans anymore.  I'm a dude & thats all theres to it.

drool  ;D

I'm in agreement with no wanting  to id as a transman or FTM. In fact, other than Susan's i don't function in the queer or trans community. I do my piece in these communities by agreeing to do  speaking engagements. I'm usually asked to share my experiences regarding  living as a heterosexual man and wanting to function in the mainstream community. As most guys, who are transitioning or have transitioned there are unique experiences in learning how to live in mainstream society, which are some what different than those guys living in the GLBT community. 

I live as a man  24/7 and have completed my R.L.E. and waiting to secure a date for lower surgery. All my personal identification-including my birth certificate now indicates  I'm male.  Something about changing that gender marker  legally adds to my identity as a man - not a transman. Does the personal identification change my transsexuality, no, it doesn't. That said, i will only have that conversation with those individuals that i choose to share  that status with, due to the intimacy of our relationship etc.

Cheers,
Guy

Quote from: Tink on November 30, 2007, 08:48:46 PM
Indeed.  Like I have said a zillion times, some of us transition to live normal lives as men and/or women; others to live their lives as transsexual (even after SRS  :-\)

tink :icon_chick:

Like many of the others here I also consider myself a female.  I just happen to have a transsexual condition.  It's a medical condition and that's all.  Having grown up as the wrong gender does not invalidate my identity as a woman.  I would think it is the same for any transsexual regardless of their transition direction.

To those that need to know I will discuss my medical condition with them.  The idea is to give aid and support to others that may also have this medical condition.  Much like breast cancer survivors will band together to give comfort to those who have been recently diagnosed.

-Sandy (and proud!)

i don't proclaim my transsexuality to the world but i've met a few ppl that do.  no one needs to know a birth defect that's already been corrected, yes?  shall i also tell them i had mumps or that i was born with a cleft palate? ???  i think not.

zactly...
R :police:

I'm so glad to see so many feel that, I was always saw the ones that were much more expressive of there transsexual history/state it kind of made me hid away from the community. I mean I was not and have never felt like I was a transsexual. I felt that I was not a boy and I liked girl things (soft skin, long hair, etc), so I guess that makes me a girl not a boy that want to be a girl (oh my ex like to say it that way, grr)

Quote from: Katia on December 03, 2007, 04:02:19 PM
i don't proclaim my transsexuality to the world but i've met a few ppl that do.  no one needs to know a birth defect that's already been corrected, yes?  shall i also tell them i had mumps or that i was born with a cleft palate? ???  i think not.

Perfect.  Which revolves around one my favorite quotes of all times:

Quote from: DawnL on October 29, 2006, 09:41:45 PM
I'm a woman with a transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

Dawn

No one has to know anything unless that person is going to share my bed, but even then, telling or not telling is an entirely personal decision.

tink :icon_chick:


POSDATA:  A Propósito Té  ::), sigue babeando no más, corazón.  Soñar no cuesta nada!  >:D >:D >:D

naughty tink :P

same, when postop, nobody knows, why bother?
ive just got a new job, and its weird just being a girl, not that ts girl... (weird but awesome)

R :police:

lmao :laugh:  oh man.  ur bad princes :laugh: ;)

Quote from: Chris on December 04, 2007, 02:19:19 AM
lmao :laugh:  oh man.  ur bad princes :laugh: ;)

;D

tink :icon_chick:

I joined this board with the more or less belief that I was an Androgyne who prefers to appear masculine... but my desire to be viewed as male has steadily increased over the last year or so the more comfortable I become with it. The fact that I look at this list and realize that I've gone through every one of these stages (in the same order no less) up to number 11, is somewhat jarring.

I think the main reason why I don't want to fully commit to the idea of being a Female to Male Transsexual is that I don't want/can't conceive of being a man. Perhaps because I haven't had a large amount of great male role-models? Vs. my many, many wonderful female ones. I certainly have strong feminist tendencies and a desire for activism in issues that I feel strongly about (religion, equality for both men and women and inbetween, vegetarianism!) XD As well as that, my goal in life is to create animated films/shows that incorporate queer characters into them (as both main and secondary roles). So basically, I consider myself a Queer Activist. I have become very open about being Transgender, I've talked with my Tutors at school in detail about it and in return they have given me much positive support. As far as I can tell, most people respond positively when I talk about it because I am open and honest about myself and have fortunately not had any kind of discrimination so far *knocks on wood*.

Trying to get back to the point though... I feel that I don't or can't identify as a 'man' because I don't want to lose my public Transgender identity.

I was curious if others felt about it in this way? That you want to be a man in every way but the name? (or woman if vice versa)

On a side note, I didn't start seriously considering myself as FtM until I read a book (I think it was either the frailty myth by Colette Dowling or female masculinity by Judith Halberstam) which talked about traditional masculinity and it's epitome was about protecting and caring for your family, being of use to your town/village/workplace/group etc. It spoke of something that was more maternal and not at all about being macho, strong or powerful (which is how being a man is often portrayed and something I have no interest in) That's the kind of person that I want to and try to be.

Quote from: Emerald on November 27, 2007, 09:37:34 PM

This coming-out model, by Devor (1997), consists of 14 identity development stages for female-to-male transsexuals:

    * Abiding anxiety — unfocused gender and sex discomfort.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about suitability of assigned gender and sex.
    * Identity comparison — seeking and weighing alternative female identities.
    * Discovery — learning that female-to-male transsexualism exists.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about the authenticity of own transsexualism.
    * Identity comparison — testing transsexual identity using transsexual reference group.
    * Identity tolerance — identity as probably transsexual.
    * Delay — waiting for changed circumstances; looking for confirmation of transsexual identity.
    * Identity acceptance — transsexual identity established.
    * Delay — transsexual identity deepens; no longer identify as women and females.
    * Transition — Changing genders, between sexes.
    * Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men.
    * Integration — transsexuality most visible.
    * Identity pride — publicly transsexual.


-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:

As someone who is pre-everything I have just recently gone through alot of this. I don't know about others but up to a oint it holds true. I would however cut off the last two and change a third. I would change Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men to read Identity acceptance — identities established as men. I would also delete Integration — transsexuality most visible and Identity pride — publicly transsexual altogether.

Quote from: Tink on December 03, 2007, 06:44:26 PM

Quote from: DawnL on October 29, 2006, 09:41:45 PM
I'm a woman with a transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

Dawn

No one has to know anything unless that person is going to share my bed, but even then, telling or not telling is an entirely personal decision.

OMG that thread brought up some old memories lol.

I still feel that publically being trans is not the end point of anyones transition by default...

isnt being male or female something to be?
your LIFE is something to be proud of... gender is just, well, a given, weather you have to fix it or not.
R >:D

i like that katia grrrl.  she's my idol! >:D

I've bounced around among several of these steps, taken some out of order, and skipped a couple altogether.  But then, being dyspraxic, organization isn't one of my strong points.  :P

As for the last 3 on the list, I think I am likely to go through the whole openly-trans bit while in the process of transition, before I am able to go completely stealth, simply because it gives me a link to those with the experiences and information that I need during that process. 

I suspect the study was skewed by the fact that the researchers would not likely have had much access to those who have chosen to go 100% stealth and have taken themselves out of the community.  What it needs is a 15th optional step.  Something like: Identity Solidification - Identity is no longer an issue and the man gets on with a normal life.

QuoteI suspect the study was skewed by the fact that the researchers would not likely have had much access to those who have chosen to go 100% stealth and have taken themselves out of the community.

Too true.   :(  Unfortunately that is one of the many pitfalls in research regarding people.  Reminds me a bit of a stat project I had to do once.  It is a complicated matter.  On one hand, it would be really nice to hear from those who are 100% stealth, because I am sure that there are many of us who would like to hear of their success and learn from it.  On the other hand, these people deserve to have the privacy that they sought for and in this day and age, one internet post could be enough to out someone. 

I am stuck between a couple of these.

8) Delay — waiting for changed circumstances; looking for confirmation of transsexual identity.
SORT of. I'm waiting for a change in circumstances before I live full time. I'm waiting patiently like a predator for my prey to hold still long enough that I can catch it. See what I mean? Waiting for that precise moment... If I am too hasty, the consequences could be terrible... but if I wait too long, I could miss some decent opportunities.

10) Delay — transsexual identity deepens; no longer identify as women and females.
This happened a long time ago for me... and I'm working up to the next one:

11) Transition — Changing genders, between sexes.

And I've accepted 12:

12) Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men.

I only want to be known as male thats it.. it is hard when some friends dont quite understand it.. but it all takes time..

However I would go to pride and celebrate being FTM as I happy that there is opp to become me.

Just wanted to say that in Devor's book this list of steps is NOT just for FtM's, it's for people going either direction.  I used to have a printout of it, but I recently threw out a bunch of trans stuff because I'm done with transition.  But I still got a pile more stuff to sort through. :-\


Here's a link to a google book search on the chapter involved:

http://books.google.com/books?id=QiJryCzrZmYC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=steps+of+acceptance+in+transsexuals&source=web&ots=F788qhYPQV&sig=p9naRP-_pxUZNoCzTf1XFoq_iKk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result (http://books.google.com/books?id=QiJryCzrZmYC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=steps+of+acceptance+in+transsexuals&source=web&ots=F788qhYPQV&sig=p9naRP-_pxUZNoCzTf1XFoq_iKk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result)

I don't ever think I'll have FtM "pride." I do have queer pride, but I don't say, "Yay, my body doesn't match my gender! Yay!" It just doesn't seem like something to celebrate.

Quote* Abiding anxiety — unfocused gender and sex discomfort.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about suitability of assigned gender and sex.
    * Identity comparison — seeking and weighing alternative female identities.
    * Discovery — learning that female-to-male transsexualism exists.
    * Identity confusion — first doubts about the authenticity of own transsexualism.
    * Identity comparison — testing transsexual identity using transsexual reference group.
    * Identity tolerance — identity as probably transsexual.
    * Delay — waiting for changed circumstances; looking for confirmation of transsexual identity.
    * Identity acceptance — transsexual identity established.
    * Delay — transsexual identity deepens; no longer identify as women and females.
    * Transition — Changing genders, between sexes.
    * Identity acceptance — identities established as transsexual men.
    * Integration — transsexuality most visible.
    * Identity pride — publicly transsexual.

I'm probably around there.  Right now I am open with some people but closed with others.  My friends know, a few of my family, and some of me instructors at school know as well as the Dean who has helped encouraged me when I was worried that it may effect my ability to get a good job in my field of study.  Apparently I'm not the first one who has made it though the school.  One actually took a quarter or so off and came back as fully woman.

Quote from: Elwood on July 25, 2008, 05:12:26 PM
I don't ever think I'll have FtM "pride." I do have queer pride, but I don't say, "Yay, my body doesn't match my gender! Yay!" It just doesn't seem like something to celebrate.

I know what you mean with that... Queer pride yes, trans pride not as much....