Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone, I've been reading these forums for a few months now... and I think it's time to ask a question!

Question to everyone here that's started transition in their late 30's or after....

Is it possible to get a feminine shape?  Or are we forever doomed to look like men in dresses except after expensive surgeries?  i.e. will HRT not do enough to make us look feminine within a few years?  Are the surgeries necessary (like FFS, BBL, breast implants, etc.)?

Here's what I worry about: transitioning and continuing to see the mask that is "him" in the mirror.  Will I ever see myself without surgery?

All I see written in forums is how HRT isn't this cure all and really doesn't do that much (if that's true, why even do it?).  Everyone says it depends on genes, metabolism, etc.  But does anyone have a scientific study to quote?  It all seems like hearsay.  Will starting HRT now have a significantly different impact than starting in my late 20's?  FYI, I just turned 38 and I am 6 ft tall.  I know my hips won't widen... and breasts won't get to fully gg developed.  Otherwise... will my waist come in (save rib cage issues)?  Will the fat truly deposit to my hips and butt?  Will I lose inches around my under bust?  Will my shape truly become feminine?

The more I read, the more transition seems like betting against the house and isn't worth it... unless you're a tween that is. (I'm speaking physically here, not psychologically).

I ask for personal experiences, not generalities or assumptions.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 03:27:31 AM
Hi everyone, I've been reading these forums for a few months now... and I think it's time to ask a question!

Question to everyone here that's started transition in their late 30's or after....

Is it possible to get a feminine shape?  Or are we forever doomed to look like men in dresses except after expensive surgeries?  i.e. will HRT not do enough to make us look feminine within a few years?  Are the surgeries necessary (like FFS, BBL, breast implants, etc.)?

Here's what I worry about: transitioning and continuing to see the mask that is "him" in the mirror.  Will I ever see myself without surgery?

All I see written in forums is how HRT isn't this cure all and really doesn't do that much (if that's true, why even do it?).  Everyone says it depends on genes, metabolism, etc.  But does anyone have a scientific study to quote?  It all seems like hearsay.  Will starting HRT now have a significantly different impact than starting in my late 20's?  FYI, I just turned 38 and I am 6 ft tall.  I know my hips won't widen... and breasts won't get to fully gg developed.  Otherwise... will my waist come in (save rib cage issues)?  Will the fat truly deposit to my hips and butt?  Will I lose inches around my under bust?  Will my shape truly become feminine?

The more I read, the more transition seems like betting against the house and isn't worth it... unless you're a tween that is. (I'm speaking physically here, not psychologically).

I ask for personal experiences, not generalities or assumptions.

Hi Kyla10

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Here is a recent thread talking about facial changes from HRT

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,225709.0.html

My personal experience tells me that I have had significant changes due to HRT and I have been on it about 13months. My clothes fit differently, my breasts have gotten bigger, there has been redistribution of fat on my face and other places on my body, I have experienced some new hair growth and all of these are minor compared to the mental changes.

The thing you must remember is Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV - things might be different for you) 

There are so many things that can affect the outcome.


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What you read here is more than hearsay; it is mostly personal experience.

I am 62, and have been on HRT for six months.  Changes I have noticed are:
- small but respectable breast growth, probably an AA at this point
- lovely, full lips
- softer skin
- subtle changes around the eyes and cheeks; combined with the lips, my face is much more feminine
- head hair has more body and is curlier; not losing it as fast as before
- body hair is much finer, sparser and lighter, almost invisible
- subtle but noticeable redistribution of fat on the hips: I am curvier.

I had started losing weight to control my stomach flab prior to starting HRT, so it is hard to say if the hormones had any effect on that.  5'8, went from 165 to 150 lbs.

HRT is not going to remove a beer gut, nor will it reduce bone structures.  The effects are subtle, but noticeable.  The most significant change most people report is that they feel mentally and emotionally clearer: less static in the head. 

Things will change with HRT.

Facial areas will smooth out, facial fat changes.
Body hair slows and for my thinned and began loosing the dark pigment more and more.
Skin will become smooth to the touch. The trade off is what may have been just a scratch may be a small cut.
Estrogen will make the finger nails brittle. Before I started progesterone I would bump my nails while working and have a round chip just break out. That's why girls complain about breaking a nail! I totally get that now!  ;)
Fat will begin to deposit in the buttocks. I have not seemed to added hip fat yet but definately but fat. Lol
Breast growth takes time but the tissues do grow. Sometimes faster than the fat gets added to cushion the tissues. Breast tissues reaction to estrogen is held back by testosterone so growth will remain slow at first until the T level drops way off. Also in cis girls, pre puberty starts at 8-9 years old. Breast tissues begin early budding then. When puberty kicks in they get their main growth which will continue until 19-20. Then only in the massive E and P of pregnancy do the breasts reach their full potential.
Muscle mass loss will happen. With that some body shape will change. As I lost muscle from my chest, neck, arms, and abs ect, all of my belly fat/visceral fat dropped right front. I still need to work to loose that.  :D it definately detracts from my breast size right now. Lol
With time connective tissues can shrink. Many report loosing a shoe size and even an inch of height.
Over time many report their pelvic tilt carry angle looseness up and becomes more feminine.

Things I have seen in myself include, breast growth, lost muscle size, smaller forearms, smaller lower legs and ankles. Lost trapezoid muscle size making my neck smaller/ thinner but seem longer. My feet have shrunk a little. With my forearms my wrists look thinner. My face has fattened smoothing out my appearance some. My skin is smooth on my hole body. My facial hair is slower growing but HRT will not make it disappear.  :( I have been personally very lucky for being born trans. Whatever affected my development also affected my sketal bone shapes. Something that for years I was ashamed of t ting to be male. Otherwise I am 5-11 so still much bigger than any average woman.

Everyone starts with a different body and everyone's tissues respond differently to hormones. Oh yeh, when first starting to block testosterone production it's like the body responds by having the t stored in body fat dump out. After my initial seeing slowing body hair there was a few weeks of WTF my body hair grew like crazy. Not an issue hardly anymore.

Do whatever lets you be yourself. Be happy. We only get one turn on this rock so live fo happiness.

Honey, everyone's fingerprints are different. That doesn't make fingerprint study hearsay. You will get your body, not someone else's, not a predictable body from a chart. Ya pays your dime, ya takes your chances.  :)  By the way, we love men in dresses here.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

I transitioned at age 43 ( over 3½ years ago) and it's all about the genetic lottery and not so much age (or even height).

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8152/28730624003_68204b5fbd_b.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8056/29380068513_208219c6b9_b.jpg)

I was lucky and have a pretty feminine shape with just HRT. I am 6'5", but in reality it's never outed me as trans, I'm just seen as a tall woman of Amazon statue. It will get you noticed (and having red hair), but it's not going to out you. I've seen 20 year olds transition and still have a male looking body and some who transitioned at 60 and have a feminine body. HRT does a lot for you, but can't change bone structure, but I've seen it do some pretty amazing things without any surgery. I believe the majority of trans women can blend just fine on HRT alone, but sometimes surgeries are necessary to blend well.

Welcome to Susan's Place. Though I was on HRT for a very long time, the dosages were so low that my body didn't fully develop. Now I am on a stronger dose, my upper leg area is developing addition shape. My breast which were about an A are well into B territory and fat is being deposited in my face. Unfortunately I lack the gene for a well rounded rear end so that remains pretty flat. I have a BMI of about 21 so my figure is more of a slim woman's figure but it's the shape that many women naturally have. I don't wear skin tight clothing because it's not age, work or appearance appropriate for me but the feminine clothing I wear fits correctly.

Even if HRT had minimal effect on the body, it's still worth it just to aid in controlling the dysphoria. Testosterone causes the dysphoria/depression that we experience and the blockers help free us from those feelings for the first time in a very long time.

Nobody can predict what HRT will do for you however I have only seen one or two cases on the site where no body development was claimed by a member. Normally like the CIS population, breast development ends up in the B -C cup size but a few have seen much greater development.

From your picture we can make a guess if you will be passible however the biggest problem you will face will be seeing your appearance as feminine. It took me over 4 years of HRT before I looked in the mirror and saw a feminine face. It was there long before that but because my mind was used to seeing the old face, it couldn't see what was there.

I started when I was sixty and have been on HRT for 11 months. I take estrodial, spiro and progesterone. I have had noticeable breast growth, close to a B cup. (progesterone made a difference for me) My legs are very shapely and my wife is jealous and says my legs are better than hers. My belly fat has disappeared. I have had hair growth and have no more bald spots. I look younger. Skin is a lot softer. Hair growth has stopped on my legs. The very best part of taking hormones is not physical but mental. I feel a lot more feminine and cant believe how relaxed and good it makes me feel. I have found my true self. It is amazing to be this happy. Don't sell HRT short. It made a big difference in my life.

Age 63, on HRT just over a year.  Even at this age, and a modest estradiol level (112 pg/mL, about 7 months at that level after 5 months at a level below 50 pg/mL), I am seeing changes.

As others have said, I have seen skin changes for a while, breast development, and more recently changes in hips and waist (not bones, just fat deposits, I think), and loss of upper body muscle mass.

I think I'm rocking this 63 year old bod OK. :)  Me, last week, no padding, just a t-shirt bra with no underwire or 'uplift', my skinny jeans and top:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/2a5647c60ad80695f44fa7f279380bf9.jpg)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for all of the responses!  I can see the YMMV thing - everyone says that and gives this generalized list of possible changes which is frustrating.  Thanks for sharing the changes you experienced.  There is a lot of misinformation out on the net about HRT regarding its effectiveness and whatnot and it's rather frustrating.

I'm not comfortable sharing a picture at this moment.

What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.  I think it's clear I'm considering it and am at the moment unable to make such a decision.  I've thought about starting and staying presenting male for awhile, but I don't know.  The only people that know about how I feel are my therapist and girlfriend.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
Thanks for all of the responses!  I can see the YMMV thing - everyone says that and gives this generalized list of possible changes which is frustrating.  Thanks for sharing the changes you experienced.  There is a lot of misinformation out on the net about HRT regarding its effectiveness and whatnot and it's rather frustrating.

I'm not comfortable sharing a picture at this moment.

What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.  I think it's clear I'm considering it and am at the moment unable to make such a decision.  I've thought about starting and staying presenting male for awhile, but I don't know.  The only people that know about how I feel are my therapist and girlfriend.

Hi Kyla and welcome aboard!!!

You could easily be on HRT and continue presenting as male as well as change your mind if you didn't think it what you want or thought it would be but people are usually asking the questions you are asking for a reason!!!

I transitioned because I came to a point of knowing that if I did not, my rest of my life would be spent in regret and basically a waste... To finally live your own life and connect to others and the world as yourself is everything!!!... Irreplaceable and precious!!!

Btw... I started HRT at age 52 and had good feminization... It just takes time!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

For me it wasn't so much deciding to go on HRT. My therapist at the time wasn't very helpful so I had to figure out for myself that my doctor could connect me with an endo and that I needed to ask for it. After I asked, it only took until I could get an appointment to get my first prescription. If I had known that was all it would take, I would have done it sooner.

Four or five years before that, I was doing computer programming in a medical doctors office and the doctor had a closet full of medicine samples. I knew there were birth control pill among the collection and I wanted to self medicate however honestly and the fact I might get caught prevented me from doing so.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.

I knew I wanted to transition, and HRT is an essential part of that.  And I had heard about the emotional and mental benefits and wanted some of that.  The biggest change for me has been an increase in self-confidence.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question. 

Emotional and mental benefits.  Secondary, as a requirement for any surgery I may elect to get in the future.

Kyla, I started HRT in March at the age of 39.  In just over 3 months, I'm already noticing significant differences in my my face and my body.  Now I did lose 22 pounds right after starting, but I've definitely developed a clear waist line and despite a little ripple yet in the spare tire area, a pretty decent hourglass figure.  I've been able to find a few women who also transitioned around my age that have had phenominal success who are my inspiration.  One is a member of this forum although I don't want to call her out ;)  So there is definitely hope of achieving a very feminine look despite transitioning in your late 30's. 

Of course as everyone has mentioned, your mileage may very.  No two of us are the same.  Also, you do still have to be realistic. For me, I've had to accept the fact that I've got very broad shoulders and chest.  Since that's a result of bone structure, there's not really much I can do about it.  But I do remind myself that there are plenty of women with those same features.  And that's kind of a key too, remembering that as much as we'd all love to be that 5'6" 120lb petite woman, there are lots of other shapes that are just as feminine too.  So don't expect miracles, but you can definitely end up with beautiful results.

As far as why I started HRT, well it was a means to an end. I eventually will be living full time as a woman and HRT is the first step medically to making my body more congruent with that. For now yet I still present male fairly convincingly. However, as the changes continue that no doubt will become harder to do.  My breasts are just starting to develop but given some time, especially given that I am relatively thin, they will become too obtrusive to hide.  I've set my full-time date for November 1 anticipating that somewhere around that timeframe it will be be very hard to hide the changes that are occurring.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.  I think it's clear I'm considering it and am at the moment unable to make such a decision.

I wanted the mental and physical changes. I wanted to feel at peace and more congruent with who I am...There's transwomen who transition through surgeries and without hormones but I can't do that. I wanted it to start from within.

I'm just beginning btw, I think it'll take at least 6 or 7 more months until I feel comfortable presenting as a woman.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on July 10, 2017, 03:31:37 PM
I wanted the mental and physical changes. I wanted to feel at peace and more congruent with who I am...There's transwomen who transition through surgeries and without hormones but I can't do that. I wanted it to start from within.

I'm just beginning btw, I think it'll take at least 6 or 7 more months until I feel comfortable presenting as a woman.

I am simply trying to fill a deep-felt void that I have felt since the age of 5. Now that I have so many new happy changes from 14 months HRT, I now have the mind and body (mostly) of the girl I should have been from the start. Yes, I guess I am lucky to have had a feminine shape from the start (which made life hell growing up), but now with the addition of breasts (and other nice things) I feel so much more 'complete.' For me, the reasons are quite simple, I guess...

Question 1:  I have been on HRT for a year and it all went to my hips and butt.  Half the pants I bought during my cross dressing phase no longer fit.  I also got 38A+. (almost a B) breasts.  And I am 54 years old.

Question 2:  I had been suffering anxiety related chest pains, irregular heartbeats and panic attacks for eleven years.  It was an incredible relief to be told that it was all because I was transgender and in denial about it.  Getting enough estrogen into my system and purging out all the testosterone meant the end of a lifetime of anger, impatience, irritability, rage, and anxiety.

Being able to be myself and be happy is absolutely amazing!

I'm 36 and have a very masculine body but I'm just going to go for it .. just starting out with diet and exerciseand am seeing the therapist thursday to talk about hormones so hopefully I will be on them in the next few months sooner if I'm lucky and she gives me a letter without wanting to see me for six months or something so I will let you know what kind of effects I get

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PMThanks for all of the responses!  I can see the YMMV thing - everyone says that and gives this generalized list of possible changes which is frustrating.  Thanks for sharing the changes you experienced.  There is a lot of misinformation out on the net about HRT regarding its effectiveness and whatnot and it's rather frustrating.

Unless you're very unlucky, HRT will help. 

As others have said, there's more to HRT than just physical changes.  For me, it unlocked my emotional life, which improved my empathy, and just that helps with the "socialization" aspect of female gendering. When it came to physical effects, I had A cups in 18 months, and changes to my skin and scent.  After putting on weight, more of it settled in good places (butt and breasts) rather than bad (my belly) than before, but it wasn't like profound or anything, more like taking the edge off.

Unless you're very lucky, HRT won't be enough.

Mind you, I started in my early 30s, after getting into shape and retraining my voice and six months of electrolysis.  See, already there are areas where I knew that HRT wasn't going to suffice in terms of passing.  It won't remove your facial hair.  It won't change your voice.  I still needed a scalp advancement and hair transplants to have a feminine hairline.  I still needed facial surgery to correct the bony structures of my forehead and mandible, and breast implants to balance out my ribcage and shoulders.  I still needed SRS. 

The question I'd be asking yourself is not whether to start HRT or not.   The Question (with a capital Q) is whether you're going to transition or not.

QuoteWhat made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.  I think it's clear I'm considering it and am at the moment unable to make such a decision.  I've thought about starting and staying presenting male for awhile, but I don't know.  The only people that know about how I feel are my therapist and girlfriend.

I already knew the answer to The Question after months of therapy and electrolysis and voice training. I was thriving on receiving female gendering, while male gendering made me dysphoric. And I knew what it would take for me personally to elicit female gendering (the laundry list above, and that doesn't include socialization issues). I was going to be on HRT regardless of its physical efficacy.  I was going to do everything that would help. 

Now, if you don't know the answer to The Question, and a lot of people don't, what HRT can do is help you to find your Answer.  Because (unless you're very unlucky) HRT will change how you feel.  And that feeling will tend to fall on one side or the other of the euphoria/dysphoria line. 

Why did I start HRT? I was dressing pretty regularly and it just wasn't enough. I wanted to feel more feminine on the inside. I was then, and still am, discovering who I was. I had never realized that I was transgender until a year ago. I made the decision to go to a therapist. I shared everything about myself with her. She recommended HRT. After reading about it I decided it was the only thing I could try that would have a chance to make me feel more like "myself". It worked for me and has given me the happiest time of my life. Finally at peace with my self. The 50 year struggle came to an end and I now accepted myself as I am. This is giving me an opportunity to start learning more about myself. Later this week I am attending my first support group meeting. I now want to share experiences with others who are like me face to face. Excited and nervous about it at the same time but again, feel it is something I need to do. Wouldn't be here without HRT.

Thanks again, ladies, for the replies!  I can't express how grateful I am.

Quote from: kyla10 on July 09, 2017, 10:53:23 PM

What made you guys decide to start HRT? - if it's not too personal a question.  I think it's clear I'm considering it and am at the moment unable to make such a decision.  I've thought about starting and staying presenting male for awhile, but I don't know.  The only people that know about how I feel are my therapist and girlfriend.

I needed to find relief from my Dysphoria before I did something that I would not come back from. I knew I needed to at a minimum transition socially and with the possibility HRT would assist in both mental and physical changes. I am very happy with the results so far I would always like better...but then wouldn't we all  :D