Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, I'm F.J Areden. I'm a (Transsexual) girl (because I was born in the wrong body), and I'm (Transgender) androgynous. A lot of people still don't know that gender and sex are 2 different things! Gender is the socially constructed term or label used to self identify apart of someone's nature and who they are, where as sex refers to the body. That's why I'm an androgynous girl, because I'm both Androgynous in my gender and I was born in the wrong body. I wanted to post this topic because I'm curious to know: which term do you identify with the most? Is there a term, Transgender or Transsexual, that you can speak to more so than the other? Are you transitioning, or are you not transitioning, as someone who is in this community. And, finally: What are some of the struggles that you face in navigating yourself throughout a society of people who may not understand the Transsexual vs Transgender Dynamic? If you are both Transgender and a Transsexual like me, are there people who question your gender expression in a context of what they understand from your being a Transsexual? Thanks for the feed back! I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone's personal accounts and experiences.

I thought transsexual was the older term, with transgender the current one.

Well I think once we have changed see or are living as the opposite sex of our birth sex it's perfectly logical to say the term transsexual.
Transgender is a funny term, and doesn't really makes sense. Considering we never "trans", change our gender, it stays the same.
People fear the word transsexual, because it has the word "sex" in it

Transgender is more acceptable term because there is more to who we are than our sex.  Sex is what we are assigned with at birth, gender is an identity we identify with. 

"Transsexual is an older term used by some to refer specifically to those who seek or have undertaken a medical intervention to change their bodies. (Distinct from transgender people, cross-dressers identify with the gender label they receive at birth but occasionally wear clothing associated with a different gender.)"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/transgender (https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/transgender)


"Transgender" refers to having a gender identity that differs from one's sex assigned at birth. "Gender identity" refers to the basic conviction of being a man, woman or other gender (e.g., bigender, genderqueer, gender questioning, gender nonconforming). "Sexual orientation" refers to one's sexual attraction, sexual behavior and emotional attachments to men, women or both.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/11/psychology-transgender.aspx (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/11/psychology-transgender.aspx)

I prefer the term transgender because it catches everyone, transitioned or not, who feels/presents other than the sex they have been assigned at birth.

I tend to think of "transgender" as being anyone not cis, and "transsexual" as a post-op, fully transitioned transgender person. But that's just where my mind goes. Everyone seems to have different definitions for everything, depending on which board I'm on. So, "transgender" is more important to me, because it's the umbrella that describes all of us - FtM, MtF, and non-binaries alike.

I generally use Transgender as a blanket term as well.  My goal is to fully transition one day, but I'm only starting the process and haven't even been put on hormones yet.  However, similarly to what Rachel_Christina said, I'm not fond of the term Transsexual due to the sexual connotation that goes with it.  However, by your original post definitions, I'd consider myself similar to you.  My overall appearance (dress, mannerisms, and cosmetics) has never been a big deal, but I don't feel correct in my body and want to fix that.  Yet at the same time, I don't feel comfortable displaying masculine mannerisms and appearance.  I do want to one day figure out all that female stuff, but being in the middle is fine by me to start with... as long as I fix the body first.
Brandi

I like this thread!  Some great posts here.

Quote from: Cailan Jade on July 11, 2017, 03:43:45 PM
I tend to think of "transgender" as being anyone not cis, and "transsexual" as a post-op, fully transitioned transgender person. But that's just where my mind goes. Everyone seems to have different definitions for everything,

This is similar to my thinking, too, Cailan. I consider myself transsexual, even though I am not post-op (until next month, anyway). 

Labels are powerful things, because as social creatures we rely on language to convey a common understanding of reality.

Quote from: Dan on July 11, 2017, 03:39:08 PM
Transgender is more acceptable term because there is more to who we are than our sex.  Sex is what we are assigned with at birth, gender is an identity we identify with. 

"Transsexual is an older term used by some to refer specifically to those who seek or have undertaken a medical intervention to change their bodies. (Distinct from transgender people, cross-dressers identify with the gender label they receive at birth but occasionally wear clothing associated with a different gender.)"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/transgender (https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/transgender)

"Transgender" refers to having a gender identity that differs from one's sex assigned at birth. "Gender identity" refers to the basic conviction of being a man, woman or other gender (e.g., bigender, genderqueer, gender questioning, gender nonconforming). "Sexual orientation" refers to one's sexual attraction, sexual behavior and emotional attachments to men, women or both.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/11/psychology-transgender.aspx (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/11/psychology-transgender.aspx)

I prefer the term transgender because it catches everyone, transitioned or not, who feels/presents other than the sex they have been assigned at birth.

Some good clear thinking, Dan. Ironically, I do not like the term transgender for exactly the reason you state.  It's too encompassing and assigns less meaning than the term transsexual.

Quote from: Rachel_Christina on July 11, 2017, 10:31:08 AM
Well I think once we have changed see or are living as the opposite sex of our birth sex it's perfectly logical to say the term transsexual.

Transgender is a funny term, and doesn't really makes sense. Considering we never "trans", change our gender, it stays the same. People fear the word transsexual, because it has the word "sex" in it

I agree with much of what you say Rachel, especially the implicit salaciousness or annoying titillation that most people assign to the term transsexual.  Transgender seems like a more polite or discreet reference.

With kindness,

Terri

Welcome to Susan's Place. I was both. Transgender (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) is the family of people who are uncomfortable with their birth gender. Mostly on this site we see non binary and transsexuals however there are others such as cross dressers who post as well. In my case, I was transsexual because I was in the binary and desired to be as female as possible. I speak of this in the past tense because medical treatment eliminated my discomfort with my gender. I now only use the terms when I as speaking about my past as they no longer apply to my current state.  Both terms are still in use but you can be transgender without being transsexual.

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Hi Jayden  :icon_wave:

Welcome to Susan's Place  :)  Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

Hugs

V M

Every time I hear the term "transsexual", I am reminded of the Jerry Springer show. You probably know of that, with college kids yelling and hollering, while the people on stage throw chairs and shoes. It created such a stigma, that I hesitate to use the term. Therefore, I use the " transgender" term, that does not contain the same stigma.

I work in education. They change terms every other month. It's crazy. We will get used to transgender and someone will come up with 'gender traveler' or something. I am okay with transgender. It seems more socially acceptable these days. If I want to be more specific I might say I am a transsexual or now a post op transsexual, although not often and not to a new person. I hate that we have taken on this term queer. I will never accept that term due to all the hatred that came with it when I was young. My thought is it is associated with calling someone subhuman. I guess I do have my rules, huh?
Moni

Quote from: Lady Sarah on July 11, 2017, 09:18:11 PM
Every time I hear the term "transsexual", I am reminded of the Jerry Springer show. You probably know of that, with college kids yelling and hollering, while the people on stage throw chairs and shoes. It created such a stigma, that I hesitate to use the term. Therefore, I use the " transgender" term, that does not contain the same stigma.

Most of the TS women on Jerry Springer strangely inspired me, as they knew they would have to deal with that, and still came across as strong, confident, trans women to me...

If someone were to associate me with one of the stronger TS guests on that show that inspired me, I definitely wouldn't mind...

Quote from: HappyMoni on July 11, 2017, 09:46:59 PM
I hate that we have taken on this term queer. I will never accept that term due to all the hatred that came with it when I was young. My thought is it is associated with calling someone subhuman. I guess I do have my rules, huh?
Moni

I don't like the word queer either.  I was called a queer in school for wearing nice hats. I don't like how people call themselves "gender queer." It just looks like they're trying really hard to be special, since the term seems to mean "non-cisgender," which is rather unspecific. Plus the connotations with the "old" meaning. I don't understand people trying to reclaim queer, honestly. All I see is polarization of the word. One town it's an offensive word, the next it's totally acceptable. I feel like it's a word a bunch of people in a city decided to use and make other people use because it's cool, with no caring about the repercussions it might have for other people.

Language is fun.  It can also be confusing, especially when usage and structure are rapidly and informally changing.

The current usage of genderqueer in the SF Bay Area seems to be an umbrella term for all persons whose gender identity is not on the binary.  That is, someone may have a masculine gender identity, a feminine gender identity, or something else, genderqueer. 

The genderqueer umbrella as used here covers androgyne identities, bigender, trigender, genderfluid, pangender, and agender identities.  I probably missed some, but I hope you get the picture.

As far as Transsexual vs transgender goes, well the most important term in that phrase to me is the vs.  I don't think it belongs there at all, as I consider myself to be a transgender person, a person whose gender identity did not match the one I was assigned at birth, and a transsexual, a person who is seeking or using medical intervention to help them align their body with their identified sex or gender.

I'm both, and they are both important concepts to me.  These two terms accurately if incompletely describe how I got to my current state and the course of my medical treatment.  They do not define me, or limit my life or existence to the bounds of some box, but are simply signposts mapping out my unusual history as a woman.

I am a woman.

I am a lesbian, blue jean femme.

I am transgender, a transsexual person completing a transition to better align body and mind.

I see transgender as someone that identifies as the opposite of the sex that they physically posses.  I see transexual as a transgender person seeking to change their physical sex characteristics.  So all transexuals are transgender, but not all transgender are transexuals, is the way I see it.  I also see a person that has changed their physical sex characteristics as no longer being in either category.  That is how I see it.  YMMV.

I read an analogy once about copy machines.  A Xerox machine is a copy machine, but not all copy machines are Xeroxs.  However, the term Xerox has been taken on as a catch all for all copiers.  And even used as a verb for making a copy.

Neither term holds much importance to me.

Both labels have many definitions depending on who you ask. Those definition also seem to change over time depending on whats popular at the moment and yes both can carry negative or positive connotations depending on which TV show sensationalized it last.

I am simply a woman.

I find myself unconsciously resisting labelling myself at all. especially when describing myself to strangers.   I tend to avoid using any 'trans-' word to describe myself.  I don't really know why.  Within this community or with friends, I have no problem identifying myself as transgender.  I am also transsexual, though I feel the reluctance to use the word due to its perceived association with sex.  Not logical, I know, but it's there.

To me, 'transgender' means anyone whose gender is not aligned with their sex assigned at birth.  To me, 'transsexual' means anyone who has chosen to alter their body through hormones and/or surgery to align with their gender.  Transgender is the more inclusive term, and is especially useful since most of the social issues we face are the same whether we transition physcally or not.

i will put my take on this. I don't like labels for people in general. Any label applied to you automatically spurs in the persons mind stigmas, misunderstandings, assumptions, and putting a person in a box. This unfortunately does not work for the human race as a whole. I am grew up Mormon and that came with the misconception "Oh your father has multiple wives." Not could not be further from the truth all the men in the church have one wife. This is also true of transgenders/transsexual labels. We are all different in the way we express our gender and our sex. No two are the same. I know we as people have to classify everything so we understand it, but that is very limiting.
For me I would rather you just call me a person and then get to know me. As you get to know me you understand me and how I fit into the label but, you will also see that I might fit other groups. Don't label me unless I put that label on my own being. As most of you stated you have a preference for one way or both. It just depends on the stereotypes that you are willing to accept that comes with them. So we have all have to be careful as people not to stereotype even ourselves. I myself call myself transgender even though the two terms are used synonymous and interchangeably. I call myself transgender as was pointed out by several of you, transsexual has some negative stereotypes because of the porn industry and shows like Jerry Springer. Same for me his show did bring me curiosity and made me question myself because I always struggled with the things mentioned on his show. I also loved when Maury did his show is she a woman or man because it made me think that one day, I could be "passable." That is another term I hate but, it does work. Overall labels are complicated.

Interesting. Where would you say you fall on the expression side of things? Would the female part or the androgynous part come into play more appearance-wise?

Good points, Jailyn. Labels suck because they impose stereotypes which I feel to be imprisoning in every way. Labels are a way for reductionist types to simplify and classify complexity, but as soon as that is done, a caricature is created.

I am who I am, which means I can express myself in anyway I want and in ways that fall outside classification.

It is time for the world to grow up and learn that there are many ways to express our personalities, not just two or three or four, but as many as there are humans on this planet.

Labels are sometimes necessary depending on the circumstances and the context in which the subject of one's sex/gender arise.  For example, I recently found a new primary care physician to look after my health needs.  In my introduction, I informed her that I was a post-op transsexual woman.  That description was meaningful to her.  Describing myself as 'transgender' would have been ambiguous, requiring further explanation.  If I had simply identified as a 'woman', I would have been withholding pertinent information important to future medical advice and treatment with potential consequences to my health and well-being.

I will refer to myself as transgender when the details of my situation are not really germane to the conversation.  The way I see it, sex and gender are two separate characteristics of a person.  One's sex is a physical characteristic, while gender is a social/behavioral characteristic.  I am transgender because I once identified as a boy/man, but now as a woman.  That is, I went from identifying and presenting as a man to identifying and presenting as a woman, first part-time, and, eventually, full-time.  My sex remained male during that time.  I might have further identified as a drag artist, cross-dresser, transgenderist, or described myself as gender fluid, non-binary, or gender queer.  No matter the label, physically I was still male.

But despite having changed my gender identity from male to female (as others perceived me), I was still physically male which was very discomforting to me.   I had strong male body dysphoria.  The expression 'trapped in a male body' felt very real to me.  I needed to go beyond changing my social gender identity to transforming my bodily sex from male to female.   That need/objective distinguished me from transgender people who have no need or desire to medically alter their bodies.  I began the long process of transforming my physical sex from male to female. 

Like Charley, I identity simply as a woman.  A female woman.  No other qualifier is necessary under ordinary circumstances.  But if my past must be divulged, transsexual is a more precise descriptor than transgender.

It seems that people are basically saying that "transgender" is mental, while "transsexual" is physical.  I suppose that may be true. 

However, I refer to myself to others as transgender.  It has become an easier word for the general (cis)public to understand, therefore one I tend to use. 

In my mind, the term "transsexual" has negative connotations (a la Jerry Springer and movies that lampoon transsexuals), therefore I would rather say "transgender in the process of transitioning" for that reason.  Unless someone is one of my doctors, whomever I'm speaking to does not need to know if I've had any surgeries, they only need to know I'm transitioning. 

Before I began travelling down this road, I heard soneone say, "sex is who you go to bed WITH, and gender is who you go to bed AS."  To me, this was the simplest, easiest way I've come across to describe my situation to a cis person.  I still tend to say it to any new cis person I speak to on the subject...IF I even decide to tell them.

I have lived as a man for quite some time now, and despite the accident at birth that made this body female, I have always been metally male, and now that I'm transitioning, I will continue to live outwardly as a male for the rest of my life. 

So, to answer your question, I am a man.

Ryuichi

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The terms 'sex' and 'sexual identity' have become synonymous with 'sexual orientation' in the minds of many people.  That's unfortunate.  Sexual identity (being male or female) says nothing about sexual orientation (sexual attraction), nor does is say anything about gender identity.

As I see it, sexual orientation is who I go to bed with.  Gender identity is who I go to bed as.  Sexual identity is who I am in bed (male or female). 

Isn't it interesting how we want to distinguish gender from sex in some situations (e.g, dating), but conflate them in others (e.g., bathrooms). 

If I may say so we are a very bright bunch, lol!!! I love all the points everyone has made. This has given me more thoughts and stuff to think on for sure. Sum this all up we are very complicated beings and nothing will change that. Keep the thoughts coming I love this discussion.