Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place. Mods, feel free to move it if so. I've been wondering about something. I frequently hear people say that it's bad for you to take antiandrogens without any estrogen, because if you have such a low amount of sex hormones in your body, it can lead to bone health problems down the line. Yet, (MtF) teens are allowed to take puberty blockers, which have essentially the same effect as AAs, without taking estrogen as far as I can see for potential years. I'm asking because I want to self medicate, am not mentally prepared for HRT yet, but also not financially prepared to buy puberty blockers, which are way more expensive than AAs. So, are puberty blockers just as unsafe as AAs in this regard, or is there something that sets AAs apart? Or are teens that take puberty blockers also prescribed (low amounts of) estrogen?

I can't comment about AAs and blockers being the same or different drugs.
My understanding is the the risks  of osteoporosis can result from many years of having no E or T,  a few years in a young/healthy person probably bears little or no risk.
I would always advise against self medication though,  as this certainly can carry real health risks.

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Have a read of this post, on low dose hrt. It might be a better option.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=130268.0

Also search the forums for osteoporosis, as that's what you risk if you stay on Antiandrogens long term, and people here have had it. I don't think blockers are any different.

The most common AA here in the USA is spironolactone which is what I take. But it's also a diuretic which can mess with your electrolytes which can be dangerous or even kill you. My Dr explained to me that even though its a diuretic, spironolactone can cause your body to store potassium.  She said if you have an excess of potassium it can mess with your heart. Potassium chloride is what they use in lethal injections to stop the heart. She said spironolactone can also mess with your blood pressure. It's just dangerous to use it on your own without medical guidance.
Julia

I feel I should make it clear that I'm only going to self medicate if I can make sure that my doctor will do regular blood tests, and that I'll go on cypro, which from what I've read has less health risks than spiro. Of course, I'm pretty sure blood tests won't pick up on osteoporosis, which is why I asked about that here. But anyway, that's not what this topic is about, so: does anyone have experience with puberty blockers that can say if they were also prescribed (low amounts of) estrogen and if not, if they've had any bone issues since.

I think there is some confusion here.

Children and adolescents are put on puberty blockers such as the GnHr analogues to stop puberty progression, they are not given cross sex hormones such as E or T so that there is no irreversible changes. Once they reach an age of consent as either judged by Law or age majority then they are given access to cross sex hormones. The analogues are extremely expensive.

Spiro and crypto can have irreversible effects so they are not given to children.

I am not sure that the analogues are available without prescription and if you think they are I would be very concerned on their authenticity. If you are having a medic monitor your biochemical changes why not just get them to supervise your medication? It would be cheaper and safer.

The only reliable way to check for osteoporosis is by bone density scans. To get a scan needs a referral and that needs a medic to be involved.

So why not just take the safer route and go through a medical process?

Quote from: Cindy on August 19, 2017, 07:50:07 AMChildren and adolescents are put on puberty blockers such as the GnHr analogues to stop puberty progression, they are not given cross sex hormones such as E or T so that there is no irreversible changes. Once they reach an age of consent as either judged by Law or age majority then they are given access to cross sex hormones. The analogues are extremely expensive.

Spiro and crypto can have irreversible effects so they are not given to children.

I don't understand why analogues would not have irreversible effects while other anti-androgens that also stop puberty progression and suppress/inhibit testosterone would.  ???

Quote from: Cindy on August 19, 2017, 07:50:07 AM
I think there is some confusion here.

Children and adolescents are put on puberty blockers such as the GnHr analogues to stop puberty progression, they are not given cross sex hormones such as E or T so that there is no irreversible changes. Once they reach an age of consent as either judged by Law or age majority then they are given access to cross sex hormones. The analogues are extremely expensive.

Spiro and crypto can have irreversible effects so they are not given to children.

I am not sure that the analogues are available without prescription and if you think they are I would be very concerned on their authenticity. If you are having a medic monitor your biochemical changes why not just get them to supervise your medication? It would be cheaper and safer.

The only reliable way to check for osteoporosis is by bone density scans. To get a scan needs a referral and that needs a medic to be involved.

So why not just take the safer route and go through a medical process?

What kind of irreversible changes do cypro and spiro have? AAs, as far as I know, suppress testosterone and puberty blockers suppress testosterone (in the context of an AMAB person). I've heard AAs can cause gynecostamia, but that's about it to my knowledge.

And I'm most certainly going to try to get my doctor to get me on puberty blockers, but the system here in the Netherlands is that you go to a professional (like a doctor or therapist), they direct you to the VUmc, you wait six months for your first appointment and then two more months and a few appointments later, you get a prescription. That's eight months, and I just turned 14. By that point, I'd have already gone through most of the irreversible changes of male puberty, like broad shoulders, masculine face etc. The latter can be fixed with (expensive) surgery, yes, but the not for the former. I'd like to avoid that, if at all possible. My idea was to self medicate for those first 6/8 months, and then have the rest done at the VUmc.

Quote from: Emma03 on August 19, 2017, 10:43:33 AMI've heard AAs can cause gynecostamia, but that's about it to my knowledge.

More so, non-steroidal anti-androgens such as bicalutamide. The incidence is much lower with cyproterone acetate and analogues. Spironolactone, not sure but it seems higher too.