Susan's Place Transgender Resources

If we want equality WHAT DOES that mean to you?

For me, equality is not being discriminated against for a job, apt, loan etc. 

Does it apply to military?  If so, why?  If so should it apply to every job function, combat, special forces etc?




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Equality applies everywhere.  We are human beings with human rights.

We should not be subject to discrimination for simply existing. If someone realizes our nature, realized that we have or had some form of gender incongruity, that should not be the basis for eviction, firing, or refusing service in a public business or accommodation.

My being a transgender person simply describes how I got here, in my case, taking a. circuitous path to becoming a mature woman.   I AM a mature woman, and should be treated as any other woman.   You know, 70% of male pay, higher price to dry clean a shirt, what passes for equality in a patriarchal Western culture...[emoji6]

Yes, our culture has work to do on the whole equality thing, but we will get there eventually. Progress is incremental and generational, as better adjusted folks move into power over time.

Give it a century or two...


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To me equality of opportunity and the right to basic rights and freedoms and protections that other people also have would be the sort of equality I would want and strive for.

However. It has to be applied on a case-by-case basis. Absolute equality is impossible. And in some cases, granting the same rights and freedoms to certain groups as to others is not wise. For example, granting children all the same rights as adults, or allowing disabled persons to enter professions that would clearly be dangerous to them and those around them.

The fact is people are not all the same. They have different abilities and strengths. One should not lose sight of reality in the hunt for equality.

Equality isn't simply applied to wages, jobs, etc.


Equality SHOULD be that all people should have the capability to present, act, behave, and live in the way that is natural and comfortable to them. Being too general is pretty difficult to explain, so as an example gender roles play a huge factor, if a girl can wear a certain shirt but a guy can't or vice versa, that's inequality.


Nobody is inherently better or more deserving or ALLOWED certain things than another. Equal means equal. No double standards, no discrimination, just living!

Equality is nothing more than having the same human rights of those that are trying to take yours away

Quote from: DawnOday on September 09, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Equality is nothing more than having the same human rights of those that are trying to take yours away

I like your definition Dawn.  :eusa_clap:

Laurie  Thank You.

Quote from: DawnOday on September 09, 2017, 09:49:12 PM
Laurie  Thank You.

Love this one.  Thanks,  But What about Military -i.e. SPECIAL OP's.?


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Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on September 09, 2017, 05:19:24 PM
Equality isn't simply applied to wages, jobs, etc.


Equality SHOULD be that all people should have the capability to present, act, behave, and live in the way that is natural and comfortable to them. Being too general is pretty difficult to explain, so as an example gender roles play a huge factor, if a girl can wear a certain shirt but a guy can't or vice versa, that's inequality.


Nobody is inherently better or more deserving or ALLOWED certain things than another. Equal means equal. No double standards, no discrimination, just living!

Thank you. Are there any exceptions to equality i.e. Military perhaps Special Ops?


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Quote from: Viktor on September 09, 2017, 05:05:50 PM
To me equality of opportunity and the right to basic rights and freedoms and protections that other people also have would be the sort of equality I would want and strive for.

However. It has to be applied on a case-by-case basis. Absolute equality is impossible. And in some cases, granting the same rights and freedoms to certain groups as to others is not wise. For example, granting children all the same rights as adults, or allowing disabled persons to enter professions that would clearly be dangerous to them and those around them.

The fact is people are not all the same. They have different abilities and strengths. One should not lose sight of reality in the hunt for equality.

Thanks so much for your response!  What would be some possible exceptions in your mind? 


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Quote from: Michelle_P on September 09, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
Equality applies everywhere.  We are human beings with human rights.

We should not be subject to discrimination for simply existing. If someone realizes our nature, realized that we have or had some form of gender incongruity, that should not be the basis for eviction, firing, or refusing service in a public business or accommodation.

My being a transgender person simply describes how I got here, in my case, taking a. circuitous path to becoming a mature woman.   I AM a mature woman, and should be treated as any other woman.   You know, 70% of male pay, higher price to dry clean a shirt, what passes for equality in a patriarchal Western culture...[emoji6]

Yes, our culture has work to do on the whole equality thing, but we will get there eventually. Progress is incremental and generational, as better adjusted folks move into power over time.

Give it a century or two...


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Thank you for your thoughts!  Would there be any exceptions where equality may be case by case i.e. Military-SPECIAL FORCES!


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Quote from: Vanny on September 09, 2017, 11:31:04 PM
Thank you for your thoughts!  Would there be any exceptions where equality may be case by case i.e. Military-SPECIAL FORCES!

Various jobs that require specific physical or mental skills to accomplish the tasks involved can decide hiring of individuals based on their ability to perform those tasks.  Special Forces are no different.

https://sofrep.com/49355/armys-new-gender-neutral-rules-special-forces/ (https://sofrep.com/49355/armys-new-gender-neutral-rules-special-forces/)

Gender-neutral rules are already in place for persons wishing to try out for Army Special Forces.

I'd also note that we have had transgender persons serving in special forces roles, although not yet out, and not transitioned.  See Kristin Beck (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Beck) as a great example.

The actual cost/benefit analysis of permitting transgender persons in the military is detailed in a report from RAND (https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1500/RR1530/RAND_RR1530.pdf).  It is a 112 page PDF document, but worth reviewing if one wants actual facts.

BRILLIANT, I WILL TAKE A GLANCE through it.   I am totally not convinced the military should be grounds for PC, POLITICS, GENDER GYMNASTICS.   

BUT I HAVE AN open mind and will glance at. 

THANKS for posting this.    Give me a bit


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Regarding military service; something even folks in our community might not be aware of is that transgender folks serve at about five times the rate as the general population. Transgender folks also display a number of traits of great benefit in the military that are not all that common in the general population, including strong perseverance in the face of adversity, and a tendency toward self-sacrifice.

Military leadership values these unique sets of traits highly. My own service record is rather distinctive.

Please note that I have been transgender from the moment the doctor assigned me the wrong sex when I was born. Roughly 9 out of 10 transgender persons in the military are not out, and look like any other soldier in ranks. I guarantee that we could not be spotted. We are very adept at blending in, a survival trait.

The idea that we should somehow be discriminated against in military service is silly on the face of it, as we can obviously do the job, just as I did, as Kristin Beck did, as do many others in our "Roll Call" thread did and continue to do.



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I am a feminist and for 100% equality and the elimination privilege as well. It means that everyone has equal right and there is no oppression. People appreciate our diversity and differences without feeling threatened, superior etc. That is the ideal i will fight for the rest of my life.

If someone can physically and/or emotionally perform the work, then they should get the job. There are no exceptions including special forces. If they can pass the tests, their gender is irrelevant.

Simple: Equality of opportunity and equality before the law!

I consider equality a baseline for human rights. In that we all should be granted basic rights simply for being self-aware individuals. I believe it in turn goes hand in hand with consideration of merit, in that while I do not believe equality should trump merit (ie: quotas), it should allow for merit to be held as a standard independent of all else.  There should be no limits on gender, or gender identity, sexuality, religion, and so forth placed on serving in a particular role, but rather the only deciding factor should be the ability to serve in that role in the desired physical, mental, and emotional capacity. And while this does mean that there will be an imbalance in representation in certain roles in society, that imbalance should never be indicative of a restriction should someone meet the needs of that role while not being a member of the overly represented demographic. To put that into an example, the military issue spoken of repeatedly in this thread. While it may be more difficult for a woman to pass the requirements for special forces service, any woman who can pass the training should be held equal to any man who does. However, I also would allow for a notable caveat in that any body representing the whole of society should seek to diversify to meet the disparate needs of society (though perhaps not expressly be required to do so, and thus should instead be incumbent upon people to seek of their own will or it is inherently meaningless tokenism).

Essentially, I follow the Genghis Khan model minus the mass murder and horses.

I'm for equality too, but I don't think it should be enforced outside of the law (meaning in other aspects than the law). I don't think people's lives should be too controlled, and I think it's very difficult to know just where to draw that line. When it comes to the law though, I think it should definitely be equal for all, and sensitive to individual differences. I do believe in equality of opportunity.
I don't know enough about the military to know where I stand on that topic. I tried forming an opinion on it a while ago but I just kept changing my mind back and forth the more I learned until I was all confused about it, so maybe it's best for me to not have an opinion on that, for now at least. It seems very complicated.

Having served for 20 years in the Army in the Infantry, having commanded a company of paratroopers, and being Ranger qualified I can say there is nothing in any of those jobs that is unique to only men.  It does however require extreme physical toughness, above average strength and endurance, aggressiveness, and particularly a lot of mental fortitude with the ability to patiently endure extreme discomfort for long time periods.

On average, males will have an easier time qualifying because of the physical requirements.  Females will have a harder time.   Many of both males and females lack the mental fortitude. 

But if somebody can meet and exceed the physical requirements and displays the requisite aggressiveness and mental fortitude they will earn the respect of the rest of the group.

That is the current military policy too.  If you can meet the job requirements then you can serve in that position without exception.


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Equality to me should be mostly focused on skills, abilities, and work product. 

Backgrounds, previous opportunity, biology, and history will never be equal. 

Work with the elements most driven by any given individuals actions.
What we can accomplish from here going forward is my focus. 

From our Declaration of Independence.

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,

This doesn't mean that we are all born with the same abilities or anything that can be gained in life. It only means that the same opportunity exist for everybody. It's the rags to riches story is our story. A person who has nothing is free to make their life into whatever they want it to be. The path may be more difficult for one person than another but we aren't bound by a caste system where our options in life are restricted by accident of birth. We can't expect aid in reaching our goal but we shouldn't be prevented from obtaining our goal either. This called the American dream and it been the thing that many have come to my county over the years to obtain.

I doubt I'll ever have it bit Equality for me would be a lot of things. All MEN are created equal as the saying goes. Men don't seem to think that applies to women. If I was ever to have equality for me it would be:

Not being talked down to.
Not having guys mansplain things I know more about than they do.
Not being dismissed and told " this is a guy thing. You wouldn't understand it".
Not being treated like I'm a complete idiot by guys. Including my own dad!
Not having guys think my time is worthless and I would just waste it on frivolous things because I'm a girl.

Not having my dad tell me to be home by 11pm if I'm not with my boyfriend even though I'm 19 years old because "a 19 year old girl has no business out late at night by herself". My brother never had that rule when he was 19.

Not being told " please Julia, make yourself useful and find something to do, men are talking" when I offer an opinion. My grandpa says that to me if I try to add anything when he's talking to my dad.

Not being told I don't need to worry about an education because I'm pretty enough to get a husband to take care of me and that college is for ugly girls and lesbians. Something else my grandpa says to me.

Not being told " oh it's your hormones flaring up" if I get mad or upset when a guy says or does something stupid. Which is most of the time around my house.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 01, 2017, 11:10:23 AM
I doubt I'll ever have it bit Equality for me would be a lot of things. All MEN are created equal as the saying goes. Men don't seem to think that applies to women. If I was ever to have equality for me it would be:

Not being talked down to.
Not having guys mansplain things I know more about than they do.
Not being dismissed and told " this is a guy thing. You wouldn't understand it".
Not being treated like I'm a complete idiot by guys. Including my own dad!
Not having guys think my time is worthless and I would just waste it on frivolous things because I'm a girl.

Not having my dad tell me to be home by 11pm if I'm not with my boyfriend even though I'm 19 years old because "a 19 year old girl has no business out late at night by herself". My brother never had that rule when he was 19.

Not being told " please Julia, make yourself useful and find something to do, men are talking" when I offer an opinion. My grandpa says that to me if I try to add anything when he's talking to my dad.

Not being told I don't need to worry about an education because I'm pretty enough to get a husband to take care of me and that college is for ugly girls and lesbians. Something else my grandpa says to me.

Not being told " oh it's your hormones flaring up" if I get mad or upset when a guy says or does something stupid. Which is most of the time around my house.

All that, and:
Not being told we are "ovary acting", when stuff goes awry.
Not being told to completely change my schedule when Phillip's work schedule changes. I hate the idea of having to get up every day long before the sun comes up, and then having to stay up past 2:00 AM.
Not being treated like a little child. I am 51 years old, for goodness sake!
Not being told to just drop everything I am doing, just to run some idiot chore. I won't get anything done that way.
Not being told I have to stand and wait to be told what to do. Like I said, I hate being treated like a little child.

Equality -- What a word.

For me, equality can be summed up with something I wrote recently (Warning: F-bomb dropped once, but I think its the only non-family friendly word in there...)  https://fierymamarow.deviantart.com/art/Fight-for-Us-701107033

BUUUUUT in short what it says, is that to me, I don't want to have to wake up in the morning and TELL myself that I'm not a freak, and that I deserve the rights that every human should have.  I don't want to feel like this country I live in hates everything I am, and I that I don't deserve anything.

For me, Equality means not being afraid to be me.  When I walk out my door, I want to be able to expect that if I apply for a job, its based on my qualifications, skills, abilities, etc. Not the color of my skin, my gender, my sexuality, my hair color, my height, my mental illness, etc.  If I can do the job, that's what I expect to be judged on.  If I were to divorce and remarry, I expect my government to respect that love knows no bounds.  Religion, that's a different story, but I live in a country where religion and state are not supposed to be synonomous.  I expect if I go into a grocery store, for the cashier to take my credit card to pay for my oranges the same as he would the guy in front of me.  I expect not to be afraid to use the bathroom. I expect that if a crime is committed against me, I will get the same justice a cis-white-christian male would.  Those are just a few examples.