Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I wont say who I am covered under with Medi-Cal... But uhhhhh I wanna know what I should do in this situation.

So My ORIGINAL surgeon moved away to be with a family member who is in VERY bad health. All of their patients slated for SRS have been pawned off to other surgeons. I met with my new one, and they want to COMPLETELY change the way my surgery will be done. They want to do a 4 step approach?
Where  it will happen in this order

1. Removal of the testicals
    Recover from that
2. Creation of the Vagina
    Recover from that
3. Labiaplasty (creation of a labia)
    Recovery from that
4. Clitoroplasty (creation of the clitoris)

Like aren't they suppose to do the whole damn thing?!

I asked that to this new surgeon, she responded "Yeah but I think this will be better for you with less stress on the body."

I responded "I am really worried about the Labiaplasty and Clitoroplasty being last, for one the clitoris is like one of the major parts of a vagina that causes sexual pleasure, and I DO hope to have pleasureable sex in the future. Will I have any sort of sexual sensation?"

She responds with a "Not very likely, You are not getting this for any sort of fetish or because you just... are a crossdresser are you?"

I responded with a  HELL NO!
But I think I may have screwed up my surgery all together, because she began to write things down there.
And said "We will be in touch regarding your surgery. And I will speak with you further on my dedcisions of what to do."

Does that mean that she does not want to perform anything?

I mean YEAH! You know I am a human being... I am engaged, almost married, I believe it or not... actually like to be intimate with my partner, and it feels because I want physical intimacy with my partner, that this surgeon MAY BE APPREHENSIVE to perform my surgery. Worst part yet? I have a HMO, NOT a PPO  :embarrassed: :'( :icon_nervious: :'(

Quote from: jessilynn on September 14, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
I wont say who I am covered under with Medi-Cal... But uhhhhh I wanna know what I should do in this situation.

So My ORIGINAL surgeon moved away to be with a family member who is in VERY bad health. All of their patients slated for SRS have been pawned off to other surgeons. I met with my new one, and they want to COMPLETELY change the way my surgery will be done. They want to do a 4 step approach?
Where  it will happen in this order

1. Removal of the testicals
    Recover from that
2. Creation of the Vagina
    Recover from that
3. Labiaplasty (creation of a labia)
    Recovery from that
4. Clitoroplasty (creation of the clitoris)

Like aren't they suppose to do the whole damn thing?!

I asked that to this new surgeon, she responded "Yeah but I think this will be better for you with less stress on the body."

I responded "I am really worried about the Labiaplasty and Clitoroplasty being last, for one the clitoris is like one of the major parts of a vagina that causes sexual pleasure, and I DO hope to have pleasureable sex in the future. Will I have any sort of sexual sensation?"

She responds with a "Not very likely, You are not getting this for any sort of fetish or because you just... are a crossdresser are you?"

I responded with a  HELL NO!
But I think I may have screwed up my surgery all together, because she began to write things down there.
And said "We will be in touch regarding your surgery. And I will speak with you further on my dedcisions of what to do."

Does that mean that she does not want to perform anything?

I mean YEAH! You know I am a human being... I am engaged, almost married, I believe it or not... actually like to be intimate with my partner, and it feels because I want physical intimacy with my partner, that this surgeon MAY BE APPREHENSIVE to perform my surgery. Worst part yet? I have a HMO, NOT a PPO  :embarrassed: :'( :icon_nervious: :'(

That question was beyond impertinent.  You're in California.  A call to your Board of Medical Practice might be in order.

I think I would find a way to make a complaint and seek another surgeon letting your insurance know this doctor id Unacceptable. You can say no just as easy as the doctor can.

Hugs,
   Laurie

I'm simply worried that this REALLY MESSED UP my surgery, like being an HMO and EVERYTHING is connected.
My fiance is smart, she has a PPO so one doctor pisses her off, she can drop that like a hot pound cake, and see another with no information from the previous doctor.

And my surgery has been pushed as it is because electrolysis... I can't wait until I am 35 for surgery, even my girl knows that. She knows I wont "last" that long in the body that I am stuck with

Did you ask her how many surgeries she's done?  Sounds like she doesn't have a clue.  I've never heard of a modern GCS surgeon who wasn't concerned with sensation, and the fetish comment was over the top.   You need to find a way to run away from this surgeon as fast as possible.

Good luck,
Paige :)

Quote from: jessilynn on September 14, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
I wont say who I am covered under with Medi-Cal... But uhhhhh I wanna know what I should do in this situation.

So My ORIGINAL surgeon moved away to be with a family member who is in VERY bad health. All of their patients slated for SRS have been pawned off to other surgeons. I met with my new one, and they want to COMPLETELY change the way my surgery will be done. They want to do a 4 step approach?
Where  it will happen in this order

1. Removal of the testicals
    Recover from that
2. Creation of the Vagina
    Recover from that
3. Labiaplasty (creation of a labia)
    Recovery from that
4. Clitoroplasty (creation of the clitoris)

Like aren't they suppose to do the whole damn thing?!

I asked that to this new surgeon, she responded "Yeah but I think this will be better for you with less stress on the body."

I responded "I am really worried about the Labiaplasty and Clitoroplasty being last, for one the clitoris is like one of the major parts of a vagina that causes sexual pleasure, and I DO hope to have pleasureable sex in the future. Will I have any sort of sexual sensation?"

She responds with a "Not very likely, You are not getting this for any sort of fetish or because you just... are a crossdresser are you?"

I responded with a  HELL NO!
But I think I may have screwed up my surgery all together, because she began to write things down there.
And said "We will be in touch regarding your surgery. And I will speak with you further on my dedcisions of what to do."

Does that mean that she does not want to perform anything?

I mean YEAH! You know I am a human being... I am engaged, almost married, I believe it or not... actually like to be intimate with my partner, and it feels because I want physical intimacy with my partner, that this surgeon MAY BE APPREHENSIVE to perform my surgery. Worst part yet? I have a HMO, NOT a PPO  :embarrassed: :'( :icon_nervious: :'(

Big hug! I  feel your pain, they identified me as a transsexual. I tried not to fly off the handle, though, because that won't help. The labels aren't the important thing, what matters is that they are  trying to get ALL gender variant people their surgeries.

Be calm when you deal with them, and good luck.

Hugs, Devlyn

Two stage surgeries are pretty common, as are single stage.  But I've never heard of a 4-stage surgery.

How feasible would it be to wait until you're married, get on your partner's health insurance plan, and then seek surgery through their insurance provider?  Maybe you can just elope now, get on your partner's plan in two months when health insurance plans typically begin enrollment, and get your surgery done early next year.

Quote from: echo7 on September 14, 2017, 12:32:30 PM
How feasible would it be to wait until you're married, get on your partner's health insurance plan, and then seek surgery through their insurance provider?  Maybe you can just elope now, get on your partner's plan in two months when health insurance plans typically begin enrollment, and get your surgery done early next year.

Good thinking, echo7!  If fiancee's insurance is an employer-based plan, it may not be necessary to wait for "open enrollment" season.  In most plans, you can enroll right away (or sometimes on the first of the following month) if the insured (the fiancee) has a "qualifying life event."  Almost all insurance plans identify getting married as a qualifying life event.

Of course, you and your fiancee have other things that would affect your marriage plans.  But think about this!

A 4 stage surgery sounds insane...It's like she's playing "complete the puzzle" with your body. Make a complaint and demand to be transferred to another one.

Her question was horrible. I agree report her. I've never heard of four stage. i wonder if it is because she needs to get up to speed first. Regardless, that does not sound right.

Also - don't they need to do the clitoris at the same time as the vagina? The nerve bundles from the head of the penis is what gives you the functioning clitoris right?

Going with my fiances plan is NOT doable, as she wants to get married AFTER surgery as two CIS gendered women, rather than one half way. And to have her insurance, we have to be married.

This insurance company gives NO care as to what YOU want, nor do they listen in my opinion. I'm having nothing but trouble with them. And I am afraid of switching right now, because I AM so far into it all. I have the request in for a new surgeon, but that is also pushing our wedding back about a year and a half.
HER surgery is set for 2018 in July, mine WAS for November or December 2018. We were suppose to be married in July of 2019 then, after healing. Now we are discussing a 2019-2020 wedding :(

I have a bit more information and the surgeries will be spaced apart by months, taking a total of 16-20 months depending on how well I heal... which is NOT very quickly.

Quote from: RobynD on September 14, 2017, 03:13:52 PM
Her question was horrible. I agree report her. I've never heard of four stage. i wonder if it is because she needs to get up to speed first. Regardless, that does not sound right.

Also - don't they need to do the clitoris at the same time as the vagina? The nerve bundles from the head of the penis is what gives you the functioning clitoris right?

That's what got this lady questioning me. That's why she asked if it was a fetish, or if it was a "crossdresser fantasy" She now has it marked in my file I am a crossdresser/ transvestite. I found that out a little less than an hour ago.
AND I find that I might not be able to get it for that reason. I am NOT a transvestite, nor do I want to BE one. (no offense to the individual who is one here. that's just NOT me) I have severe dysphoria with my body, I've told her that... I just want to be like any normal human and be able to experience sex. Apparently she just wants it to "look correct" not giving two donuts about functionality. But that makes me a fetishist. :,(



yeah I got fetishes, but my gender aint one of them.

Also just got a call... litterally just now stating that my surgery is "ON HOLD until further notice" while they "investigate psychological history and past psychotherapy evaluations"

Looks like these people wont give me my surgery ladies :(

You're 100% correct. That really sucks. Bad.

It's like the 1950s back when Johns Hopkins would only offer surgery if the patient was pretty and identified as a straight heterosexual woman.  She really needs some sensitivity training and more experience it sounds like to me.  I wouldn't let her touch me.

Quote from: jessilynn on September 14, 2017, 03:19:45 PM

Quote from: RobynD on September 14, 2017, 03:13:52 PM
Her question was horrible. I agree report her. I've never heard of four stage. i wonder if it is because she needs to get up to speed first. Regardless, that does not sound right.

Also - don't they need to do the clitoris at the same time as the vagina? The nerve bundles from the head of the penis is what gives you the functioning clitoris right?

That's what got this lady questioning me. That's why she asked if it was a fetish, or if it was a "crossdresser fantasy" She now has it marked in my file I am a crossdresser/ transvestite. I found that out a little less than an hour ago.
AND I find that I might not be able to get it for that reason. I am NOT a transvestite, nor do I want to BE one. (no offense to the individual who is one here. that's just NOT me) I have severe dysphoria with my body, I've told her that... I just want to be like any normal human and be able to experience sex. Apparently she just wants it to "look correct" not giving two f**ks about functionality. But that makes me a fetishist. :,(



yeah I got fetishes, but my gender aint one of them.

Really odd, I was clear that I do NOT identify as a woman and  hoped to retain male function, and I got my surgery.

I want to restate that exhibiting internalized transphobia in the office probably didn't help you. All you can do now is regroup and  try again.  Best wishes.

Hugs, Devlyn

I'm not very good at that stuff. I would have told her she's the Surgeon, not the psychologist, isn't she? I have never heard of anything like this. 4 separate instances of General Anesthesia? Really? You only get one opportunity to do this. I would personally run away. Before I left though, I'd ask her, how many Vaginoplasty surgeries have you completed? When was the last one? Which of your patients that have had this procedure might I speak to? I'm going to guess you're going to get some answers you don't want. 
     I know a woman who has recently had surgery at a Hospital on the East Coast that has just recently begun to do SRS Surgeries. Highly regarded Institution. Her surgery has turned into a horrible experience and a disaster. To my way of thinking, you want someone to do this that has done it hundreds if not thousands of times, not read a book and watched a video. I'm no one's guinea pig. I wish you luck and hope you really do your research before you allow this to happen. I know this sounds negative, but it always breaks my heart when I hear horror stories after the fact and they almost always involve surgeons with no experience in this art.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 14, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
I want to restate that exhibiting internalized transphobia in the office probably didn't help you. All you can do now is regroup and  try again.

I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.

This is about some of the biggest hogwash I've read in a looooong time... Utterly absurd.

I wouldn't let this "surgeon" touch me with a tongue depressor, remotely, from the north pole, while shes operating it from the space station, orbiting Neptune. If it were me, id definitely find somebody else...

Quote from: rmaddy on September 14, 2017, 04:06:36 PM

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 14, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
I want to restate that exhibiting internalized transphobia in the office probably didn't help you. All you can do now is regroup and  try again.

I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.

Just no. I draw lines too. There's nothing inflammatory about asking someone in this setting if they're a crossdresser.

I just went through this same  process. Here's the (adult) deal. They asked me if I was African American. I calmly said "No." They asked if I was Latino. I calmly said "No." They asked if I  was a Pacific Islander or Intuit. "No." "No."
Never did I have a visceral reaction to  being asked if I was another kind of person, even though I wasn't that kind of person.

So pretend you're the doctor trying to decide if the transgender person across from you has made a rational, well thought out decision, and  they react negatively to the mention of transgender people who aren't like them. I'd seriously think they hadn't resolved their internal issues if I were in the white coat.

Hugs, Devlyn

Wow, I wouldn't have surgery with that person if they had the best results record in the world and the  4 stage you describe would not be providing you with an innervated clitoris which is completely standard since like 10 years, maybe 15.

As to your diagnosis, that doesn't come from the surgeon, but from your psychiatrist. Now your HMO may have some messed up policies or some messed up people in their system however there is no reason whatsoever a vaginoplasty today should not involved a sensitive clitoris and full sensation within the vaginal canal.

As to your partner's willingness to marry only after your surgery, that kinda sucks. You don't need to have GCS to officially change your gender.

Good luck, I'm sorry you have such limited options.

Quote. You don't need to have GCS to officially change your gender.     

Unfortunately, that's totally dependent on which State you are a resident in. :(

And to the OP....I hate to say it but it looks like some guardian angels are stepping in to protect you if you ask me.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 14, 2017, 05:31:56 PM
I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.


Just no. I draw lines too. There's nothing inflammatory about asking someone in this setting if they're a crossdresser.

I just went through this same  process. Here's the (adult) deal. They asked me if I was African American. I calmly said "No." They asked if I was Latino. I calmly said "No." They asked if I  was a Pacific Islander or Intuit. "No." "No."
Never did I have a visceral reaction to  being asked if I was another kind of person, even though I wasn't that kind of person.

So pretend you're the doctor trying to decide if the transgender person across from you has made a rational, well thought out decision, and  they react negatively to the mention of transgender people who aren't like them. I'd seriously think they hadn't resolved their internal issues if I were in the white coat.

Hugs, Devlyn

I don't think this is a fair reading of the OP.  Jessilynn apparently had already met with and was comfortable with a surgeon who, for family reasons, left practice.  She was assigned a new physician.  This physician outlined a bizarre four step plan for GCS which led to understandable questions about how this plan might make adversely affect her desire to have a pleasurable sex life.  It was at this point that the surgeon asked a question, which, framed grammatically in the negative all but screams bias on the part of the surgeon.  In context, the question sounds (to me) less like "Are you a Pacific Islander?" and more like "You're not an arsonist or something ARE YOU?!!"

Granted, I am taking Jessilyn at face value in her reportage, but that is a courtesy we generally extend to anyone unless there is a fantastic reason not to.  Later in the thread, she makes it perfectly clear that she has no problem with those who identify as crossdressers...it's just that this is not how she identifies.  You said yourself that you didn't like being labeled as transsexual because you don't think the label fits. 

I've seen plenty of transphobic nonsense, but I see no evidence that Jessilynn is shucking it out in this case. Calling her out (twice) for unresolved "internal issues" seems to me a punishment of the innocent, and not what I expect from this place.

I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right? By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."


I'm not punishing anyone here. I'm offering my opinion on what it sounds like  happened, in order to find a solution. I  go to Fenway Health. Everyone there is gay, lesbian, or trans. The patients, the doctors, the financial officer, the janitor. There are  big women with beards, guys with tiny hands and curvy hips. Folks of everyTG stripe. Blurting out anything, anything at all disparaging there about any flavour of TG person would be a major faux pas. It's something a cisgender person would do...or someone who had internalized transphobia.

She's going to have to go back through this process, I'm suggesting a different approach. It sounds like you're urging her to do the exact same thing again.

Hugs, Devlyn

Wow, the whole thing from the OP sounds absolutely horrible and would have reduced me to a blob of crying goo.  i don't have any advice to offer, but I did want to let Jessilynn know that i agree with her that this is horrible, that wanting good sensation isn't horrible (that should be the *expectation* by surgeons), and I really hope you can find an alternative - just about any alternative would be an improvement.

I'd also suggest talking with your partner about how this might change things. I don't know why your partner wants you to have SRS before marriage, but if there is room for negotiation there, particularly since I think there is valid concern that the surgeon you talked to would mutilate you and leave you with parts that don't properly respond to stimulus, I hope your partner and you can come to a more workable solution that doesn't leave you physically messed up.

Quote from: jessilynn on September 14, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
She responds with a "Not very likely, You are not getting this for any sort of fetish or because you just... are a crossdresser are you?"

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2017, 06:10:59 AM
I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right? By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige :)

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 14, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
That's what got this lady questioning me. That's why she asked if it was a fetish, or if it was a "crossdresser fantasy" She now has it marked in my file I am a crossdresser/ transvestite. I found that out a little less than an hour ago.
AND I find that I might not be able to get it for that reason. I am NOT a transvestite, nor do I want to BE one. (no offense to the individual who is one here. that's just NOT me) I have severe dysphoria with my body, I've told her that... I just want to be like any normal human and be able to experience sex. Apparently she just wants it to "look correct" not giving two donuts about functionality. But that makes me a fetishist. :,(



yeah I got fetishes, but my gender aint one of them.


Really odd, I was clear that I do NOT identify as a woman and  hoped to retain male function, and I got my surgery.

I want to restate that exhibiting internalized transphobia in the office probably didn't help you. All you can do now is regroup and  try again.  Best wishes.

Hugs, Devlyn

I have no internalized transphobia... fear and hate of men and being identified as a man... YES. I dont like men, and I dont like being called one.

Quote from: Paige on September 15, 2017, 08:15:47 AM

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige :)

I do, and I have... there is nothing they can do. I have an HMO, which sucks. As of right now, they have my whole surgery on hold until further notice. The b!**h said that I should hear back within 3 months of the decision.

So right now all my counsellor can do, is talk with me.

Quote from: jessilynn on September 15, 2017, 09:36:46 AM
I do, and I have... there is nothing they can do. I have an HMO, which sucks. As of right now, they have my whole surgery on hold until further notice. The b!**h said that I should hear back within 3 months of the decision.

So right now all my counsellor can do, is talk with me.

Talking I think is still pretty important, especially to the extent that you seem to have been misunderstood and mislabeled.  Assuming your relationship with your counselor is good, I think this may help you, and possibly help redirect the surgeon as well.

In the meantime, it's super hard to wait, but decisions to go forward with GCS generally involve multiple periods of fairly long waits as the system sorts itself out.  I'm currently waiting for pre-authorization, after having waited for approval by our transgender care team.  Within my system, that's just how the process goes.  I realize that the encounter went poorly, but try not to see this as a refusal if you haven't, in fact, been refused yet.

Hang in there.

The option if they do deny service is of course to file suit. You may mention that to someone in the loop now. Unfortunately,  I have consistently found in my life that the squeaky wheel is the one that receives the grease.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2017, 06:10:59 AM
I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right?  By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."

No I'm not.  I'm saying that the doctor's question, as framed, was highly unlikely to have been the sort of dispassionate demographic inquiry that you seem to think it was.  The doctor recast the patient's honest inquiry about sexual health itself as fetish (a word historically weaponized to deny trans people not only healthcare, but human rights), and while I suppose she could have simply said "no", I think it's beyond obvious that the physician was the one exhibiting transphobia, and I think Jessilynn could be cut some slack for having reacted to it.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2017, 06:10:59 AM

I'm not punishing anyone here.

You're kicking someone who is down and assigning motive to her actions not justified by the related facts.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2017, 06:10:59 AMI'm offering my opinion on what it sounds like  happened, in order to find a solution. I  go to Fenway Health. Everyone there is gay, lesbian, or trans. The patients, the doctors, the financial officer, the janitor. There are  big women with beards, guys with tiny hands and curvy hips. Folks of everyTG stripe. Blurting out anything, anything at all disparaging there about any flavour of TG person would be a major faux pas. It's something a cisgender person would do...or someone who had internalized transphobia.

She said explicitly that she does not harbor any animus against crossdressers.  Neither do I.  My network of support consists of people from just about ever shade and hue of the gender spectrum.  I'm not sure why that (EDIT:  That is, her direct statement) isn't good enough for you, nor why you seem overly willing to assign innocent motives to the physician and ill motives to a member of our community who was simply telling the story of an interaction which, she would agree, went really poorly and resulted in significant misunderstanding.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2017, 06:10:59 AMShe's going to have to go back through this process, I'm suggesting a different approach. It spunds like you're urging her to do the exact same thing again.

No.  I'm suggesting that you change your approach.  You didn't ask her if she thought crossdressers are part of us, fully deserving our love and support (they are).  You led with a formed conclusion, i.e. that she was transphobic, and locked on to it like a pit bull on a mailman's leg.  Oh, but there I go comparing you to terriers. ::)

Perhaps we can continue the discussion elsewhere and allow Jessilynn to seek  her answer here? Our discussion is straying from the course. Maybe you and I can  move to the  Pets and Creatures forum to discuss what breed I am.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Dev, you're lucky to be at as clueful a place as Fenway. And it's not that there's anything wrong with being a transvestite - that's the official APA term for cross dresser. The problem is that generally being diagnosed as transvestite disqualifies one for any insurance -- my electrologist screwed this up when she sent a bill to blue cross, using the wrong diagnostic code. She asked me "aren't they the same thing?". And in this context I didn't care about the labels. I did care that it introduced a month+ delay in reimbursement.

The OP isn't going to get approved for surgery unless/until that's corrected - again, if you're in a healthcare context that's a bit more modern, you may not face this stupidity and more power to you!

To repeat, the surgeon's job isn't diagnosis - unless they also happen to be a board certified psychiatrist or PhD psychologist and the crap she laid on the OP feels like the worst kind of gatekeeping. Unfortunately just based on the description of her situation I don't have any great ideas for improving things. :-(.

Jessica you did nothing wrong and didn't display internalized transphobia.
I would like to reiterate Sadie.
If there were any justice in the world you would have a legal tort claim.
The doctor was 100% out of line and inappropriate.
Surgeons are basically cutters, not know for their bedside manner.  Empathy and compassion for the patient is in fact viewed as a hindrance to the successful practice of their craft. This is by design. This is why the WPATH guidelines require you to jump thru hoops with TRAINED psychological counselors who are TRAINED to approve your decision to have SRS. It seems to me that the surgeon here was the only one openly exhibiting transphobia.
The surgeons role is just to do the surgery. Why they're called surgeons.

Quote from: SadieBlake on September 15, 2017, 11:38:41 AM
Dev, you're lucky to be at as clueful a place as Fenway. And it's not that there's anything wrong with being a transvestite - that's the official APA term for cross dresser. The problem is that generally being diagnosed as transvestite disqualifies one for any insurance -- my electrologist screwed this up when she sent a bill to blue cross, using the wrong diagnostic code. She asked me "aren't they the same thing?". And in this context I didn't care about the labels. I did care that it introduced a month+ delay in reimbursement.

The OP isn't going to get approved for surgery unless/until that's corrected - again, if you're in a healthcare context that's a bit more modern, you may not face this stupidity and more power to you!

To repeat, the surgeon's job isn't diagnosis - unless they also happen to be a board certified psychiatrist or PhD psychologist and the crap she laid on the OP feels like the worst kind of gatekeeping. Unfortunately just based on the description of her situation I don't have any great ideas for improving things. :-(.

I'm at a clueful place like Fenway after my old doctor refused to address my transgender medical issues and  embarassed me, so dont assume everything's been peaches and cream for me. We're all in this together, I  get the deal.

I would question this doctors training. My PI surgery was preformed in 1982 and was a 2 step operation. The first step put everything in place and the second step was a touch up that fine tuned appearance. The idea of a 4 step procedure would date back to the 1950s. My surgeon was Dr Biber and he learned how to do the two step from John Hopkins who started treating transgenders in 1963. I know of no advantage to a surgery  with more than two step other than possibly in the case of somebody who is intersex and the doctors made a mess early on. Even in these cases, it possible to reduce the surgery to a two step.

My call on this is the surgeon is attempting to maximize their profit by hitting the insurance company for four surgeries instead of one or two. If this doctor wishes to provide this surgery, I would suggest receiving some training from one of the current surgeons on how to do this properly. If you have the money or insurance, Dr Ley currently has a fairly short waiting list but I don't suspect that will last for long.

Quote from: Dena on September 15, 2017, 06:10:12 PM
The idea of a 4 step procedure would date back to the 1950s.

Thats it! I was trying to remember where i had heard about like multiple surgeries and it was in the biography on Christine Jorgensen going through it in the late 40s, early 50s.

I believe a lot in signs and omens. This may sound crazy to most but I believe that it all happened for a reason. She is not the right doctor for you. Try to find another doctor who can take the insurance you have. BTW I am very curious who is the doctor doing 4 stage surgery?

Quote from: rmaddy on September 14, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.

I do feel the surgeon is inflamatory. And after meeting them... She STILL wants to do the 4 step. Even after I ended up in tears in her office after I INSISTED I am a female who just wants to live life as a female. It's just sad the fact that she doesn't seem to care... or even have my best interest in mind.

I even told her that when I was a child I had tried to cut it off, and dreamed of being a girl. Her response was simply I feel all little boys go through that fantasy at some point in their childhood.
Yeah but it doesn't normally transcend to adulthood. But that didn't stop her ideas, or even change the opinion.

I mean I know in my heart I am a woman. I have been for a long time, I've never been a male, I'm just cursed with the body of one.

Quote from: SadieBlake on September 14, 2017, 06:11:28 PM
You don't need to have GCS to officially change your gender

I'm sorry... in my personal case, I kindly must disagree with you. I am not happy with the anatomy I have.

Quote from: Paige on September 15, 2017, 08:15:47 AM

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige :)

I have spoken to them. I have a whole team who is on board, but none who can say; "SHE'S A WOMAN! She WILL have this surgery in one go whether you like it or not." Unfortunately it does not work that way in an HMO.

I told one of my therapists, who handles my transition directly, that I want a new doctor. And she said "you might be put on a longer waiting list."

As the lists grow longer, my patience grows thinner. I am thinking it would be best to jump ship and land myself in something better :/ Though that would mean starting over. New therapist, new year on hormones, new electrologist, new laser NP, new doctor, and another year on the long ass waiting list :,(

Quote from: jessilynn on September 24, 2017, 01:04:03 PM
I'm sorry... in my personal case, I kindly must disagree with you. I am not happy with the anatomy I have.

Jessi, I wasn't questioning that, I took 20 years to get to GCS and I wish it could have been faster but I was making the decisions also.

All I meant was that you can change your gender without having had surgery. In CA all you need is a physician writing a letter that you've had appropriate treatment. You don't have to say what it was even.

Also to what you wrote above, you don't have to redo HRT or RLE. The year you've done should count.

I don't disagree that your situation sucks. By the sound of it your HMO has setup policies to make it relatively difficult to get to GCS and I still think your fastest route will be to get better insurance.

Quote from: jessilynn on September 24, 2017, 12:59:18 PM

I even told her that when I was a child I had tried to cut it off, and dreamed of being a girl. Her response was simply I feel all little boys go through that fantasy at some point in their childhood.

She is delusional if she told you that. She obviously has an anti-trans agenda. It would be a cold day in hell before she touched me...ever. 10,000-12,000 dollars will get you an excellent Thai Surgeon, Airfare, food and lodging. My suggestion is to be patient, save, save, save and you'll find yourself in a position to have the best possible outcome sooner than you think. Do you really want this woman laying hands on you? Have you asked her for references to others that have used her services? I'm really concerned you'll eventually get your way with this person and end up forever sorry.

At this point it sounds like your options are:

1.  Take the four stage.  I agree it sounds nuts, but you'll get where you want--eventually.
2.  Consider your options overseas.  Thailand is less expensive, although you will be entirely out of pocket.

I'm sorry that you have been given such poor choices.  You'll need to find your own way forward.

Quote from: rmaddy on September 25, 2017, 03:27:33 AM
At this point it sounds like your options are:

1.  Take the four stage.  I agree it sounds nuts, but you'll get where you want--eventually.
2.  Consider your options overseas.  Thailand is less expensive, although you will be entirely out of pocket.

I'm sorry that you have been given such poor choices.  You'll need to find your own way forward.

I am NOT taking that 4 step. Because the clitoroplasty will be the last surgery. And that is simply to make the vagina LOOK anatomically correct and serves no function. The nerve endings will not be used for the clit.

Sorry, but I want to experience sex WITH my fiance when I am a woman... like AS a woman. I dont want to like just lay there and not feel anything. I dont want to be a robot :(

Ok, so you know what you gotta do then.  Best of luck.  We support you.

Hey ladies, thanks for all the help... But here's the situation;

My transitions team didnt work quick enough. I was reassigned my old crappy doctor. I was to the point where I was unable to speak to anyone about getting a new surgeon, because I was on a hold for that stuff.

I just got my last blood test. I didn't know it was going to be my last. Estradiol was a little low, and my testosterone levels were a little high... my primary care physician stepped in on this oprotunity and he halted my estrogen refills. I have no estrogen left, and I have about 8-9 spironolactone left (he wont re prescribe that because he "does not give that to male members under any circumstances because it supresses testosterone" and he for SURE will not be prescribing the estradiol). I am going on 8 days without it right now (I was suppose to have it mailed but they wont now)

So my testosterone levels are creeping back up, and my estradiol levels are going down. AND I CAN FEEL IT! I am actually starting to have estradiol withdrawl symptoms; Headaches/ migraines, nausea, lethargy, cold sweats, night sweats...

my main point in posting this is to say;
Thanks for all the support and help, but it seems as if it was all for naught. I bid you all a merry thanks, and farewell. Any trans person I know I will send them here, because all of you have been... SO helpful. And just in general supportive when I needed it.
Good bye everyone, thanks so much for all the support! ❤❤❤❤

Good luck Jessi. Where there's a will, there's a way. Start to look into implied consent. Whomever your Doctors were, you don't want or need them.  If you want this life,  you will have it. You are very young and life is long. Good luck and be well.

Quote from: Jessica Lynne on September 28, 2017, 11:57:24 AM
Good luck Jessi. Where there's a will, there's a way. Start to look into implied consent. Whomever your Doctors were, you don't want or need them.  If you want this life,  you will have it. You are very young and life is long. Good luck and be well.

I dont know how all of that works... but my will seems to have waned and become nothing... I LITTERALLY have no more energy to fight as of right now.


I actually will be calling the suicide prevention hotline tonight. And asking about counsellors in my area


It just sucks 19 months on hormones... and it's all come crashing down.

I'm sorry, I meant informed consent. Start by calling Planned Parenthood or better yet going in. If they can't help in your area, ask them for direction. If they can't help you. Get on the phone and start calling Endocrinologists and asking if they'll prescribe based on informed consent. If they won't?  Ask for direction. KEEP ASKING FOR DIRECTION. The forces of the Universe will give you what you want when they realize you won't settle for anything else. That's how life works. There's time for suicide later. You don't want to die, you want to live as Jessilyn. Go figure out how that will happen. Do you want it? Then do the work and it will happen. But not by itself. The Universe has stopped these butchers from ruining your life. Now the ball is in your court to restart in a productive way. GO GET WHAT YOU WANT AND DESERVE. you owe it to yourself and those who love you and need you in your world. Put that cute avatar of you back up, pull your big girl panties on and get to work getting what you want. It will not fall into your lap by crying or hoping. Plan your work and work your plan. We're all here for you. Don't abandon that. We can't help if you quit.  GO GIRL!!!!!!

At this point, don't give up. I checked your location in an earlier post and there should be a wealth of resources in your area. Tell us what you need and we will help you track down what you need. This is just a temporary set back and given a little time, it can be overcome.

Quote from: jessilynn on September 14, 2017, 03:19:45 PM
That's what got this lady questioning me. That's why she asked if it was a fetish, or if it was a "crossdresser fantasy" She now has it marked in my file I am a crossdresser/ transvestite. I found that out a little less than an hour ago.
AND I find that I might not be able to get it for that reason. I am NOT a transvestite, nor do I want to BE one. (no offense to the individual who is one here. that's just NOT me) I have severe dysphoria with my body, I've told her that... I just want to be like any normal human and be able to experience sex. Apparently she just wants it to "look correct" not giving two donuts about functionality. But that makes me a fetishist. :,(


yeah I got fetishes, but my gender aint one of them.

I have to wonder if maybe you aren't misinterpreting what you've been told since some of this does not make sense. I searched for SRS surgeons in California, and found only one female surgeon that sort of fits the description you gave. Her website lists penile inversion, with the potential for a second surgery some time later for cosmetic correction. The "four steps" you list sound like four steps in the same operation, not four separate surgeries. Since some of the same tissue needed to create the vagina as is used to create the labia, not sure how they would divide that into several surgeries anyway. Also, standards of care these days more less dictate the attempt to create a sensitive clitoris; nobody would go to a surgeon who openly stated they didn't care about sensation. I cannot imagine any insurance company financing something so out of step with normal transgender care, especially since four operations would cost them WAY more, what with the repeated anesthesia and hospital stays, and of course they care a bunch about their bottom line. It's also hard to imagine a surgeon officially diagnosing somebody as a "tranvestite/crossdresser" after a brief meeting, or really at all since it's not in their scope of practice.

Also, any doctor can write estrogen prescriptions. Why did your endocrinologist not refill your meds, if the GP would not? I searched online for the laws in California about gender change on official documents, and it says you just need a note from the doctor saying you've undergone "clinically appropriate treatment." What that "treatment" is is up to their discretion, and surgery is not required. As such, insurance should not be able to change your gender marker back and forth at their whims. No one can force you to detransition.

I'm not entirely sure what is going on here, but at the very least I would recommend going somewhere like Planned Parenthood for your hormones and getting a note to get your driver's license updated, if you have not already. You can take hormones forever and change all your documents, and live as the woman you are, until the surgery thing gets sorted out. I hope you are continuing to get counseling as well since it sounds like you're dealing with a lot.

Good luck!