Susan's Place Transgender Resources

(Related old discussion, "Why does a small number of people who 'go back' become hateful" at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,224989.0.html )

I am intentionally posting this in the Non-Transitioning and Detransitioning subforum in the hope of reaching the members to whom it best applies.

I respectfully ask members who are happy with their transition and confident about their ->-bleeped-<- NOT TO READ OR REPLY TO THIS THREAD because of the strong emotions it may evoke.

***TRIGGER WARNING***
I am the male alter of Flytrap's Multiple Personality/Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) System (she calls me Primary). Having been misdiagnosed as transsexual because of my need to express myself as another gender, I wanted to share my experience and perspectives with others who are not certain transition is right for them.

It has taken eight, long, painful years of therapy to understand my dissociative mind and the effect childhood sexual and physiological abuse had on me. And that my strong trans/homophobia is misdirected emotion at my abusers, my shame over the things that were done to me and my inability to accept my mind's creating a girl alter (Flytrap) to survive.

There may not be enough years in my life to get over the resentment I feel towards the psychological community and my therapist for misdiagnosing me as transsexual. But I am far enough past the anger to understand how my doctors and I came to such a horribly wrong conclusion. At some level I had wanted to be a woman for as long as I could remember. I had been teased, beaten and bullied by the other kids for acting like a girl, had had a hard time finding my niche with the guys, and had gone through the cycle of crossdressing and purging several times during my life. But I grew up to be a pretty typical cisgender guy and chalked it all up to a youthful search to find myself. I understand now my female alter, Flytrap, was stepping in to help me survive the devastating events I experienced in my life.

Without warning, in 2009 the need to look, act and live as a woman became an uncontrollable obsession. More extreme than anything I had experienced before, the sight and thought of my masculinity caused mental pain. A life sucking zombie-like funk made it nearly impossible to sleep at night and to perform the basic functions of daily life. I had no idea what was happening and started seeing a gender therapist to help me find the answer.

My therapist had an extensive background in gender, trauma and DID. After hearing the facts and reviewing my history, she explained I was a "classic late onset transsexual in denial." But as right as it felt to live as a woman, it felt just as wrong. All I ever got was a knowing smile and the gentle suggestion to come out and begin my transition.

Over the next seven years of therapy I came to learn transsexuals share an alarming number of similarities with people like me who have DID. They too experience gender dypshoria, sexual confusion and the feeling of having been born in the wrong body for as long as they can remember. They too were bullied and did not fit in with other children who were the same assigned at birth gender. Transsexuals often struggle with the idea they are transsexual, are survivors of childhood sexual and psychological abuse, and suffer from the very same psychological conditions DID uses to mask itself (depression, PTSD, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia). Transsexual people can even have Dissociative Identity Disorder!

Although it has nothing to do with transsexualism, it is extremely common for people with DID to have male and female alters. Different gender alters provide a way for a person to express their "whole person." Male alters give female trauma victims the strength they do not believe themselves to possess as women. Female alters give male trauma victims a way to express the "soft side" of being a man that is often discouraged by society, or justify in their minds the sexual confusion of being molested by another boy. Some people with DID even have transsexual alters.

And DID isn't a rare mental condition about homicidal personalities. It is the dissociative mind's way of protecting a child from painful psychological trauma. In fact it is more likely a person is suffering from DID than they are transsexual!

1% to 3% of the population have Dissociative Identity Disorder according to The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation. About the same as the number of people who are gay/bisexual.
http://www.isst-d.org/downloads/guidelines_revised2011.pdf

Only 0.6% were estimated to be transgender in the Williams Institute's landmark 2016 study.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf


It is just not possible to convey to someone without a dissociative disorder the extent to which their mind filters their conscious experience. The same mechanism my brain had used to survive the sexual and psychological abuse I suffered as a child kept me from knowing about my alters and what it was doing to protect me. I was able to go on to live a happy productive life despite the horrible things that happened to me. Silently doing their jobs in the background since I was a child, my alters worked like a well oiled machine to simulate a solitary identity.

An amazing natural protective mechanism that helps us get through painful events in our lives, dissociation becomes a disorder when it begins to negatively impact a person's life.  It takes a phenomenal amount of brain power to keep up the level of self delusion required to maintain multiple personalities. After nearly 50 years my System collapsed under its own weight.

I begged and pleaded with my GT to let me start hormones. Somehow I knew they would bring me peace. Reluctantly giving her referral, she warned they would only speed up my need to transition and make it impossible for people to see me as a guy. Hormones brought an immediate sense of calm, but none of her predictions came to be. Four and a half years on a full transition level HRT regimen I realized the peace the medication brought had nothing to do with gender dysphoria. It was about Chemical Castration. Once and for all my mind felt safe knowing I could never have children of my own and do the horrible things that were done to me to anyone else.

Over the next two years Flytrap and I had an all out war for the body. Try as we may, neither of us could keep control. In desperation I started seeing cognitive psychologist. Every test, inventory and diagnostic tool she gave me showed I was just a well adjusted happily married cisgender guy with extreme gender dysphoria. My doctor explained I was androgyne and was experiencing an Adjustment Disorder. Neither Flytrap or I could accept there was anything transgender about either of us, but she helped us realize that, like it or not, we needed each other and had to find a way to share the body.

There was a six month calm before the storm. I actually began to think of myself as bigender. My Psychologist did her best to discourage the growing distinction Flytrap and I needed to make between us. When the flashbacks and time and memory loss began she knew the painful journey I was about to take. With tears in her eyes my doctor referred me for Trauma Recovery Therapy.

Quoting Flytrap:
"I have slowly come to the point that I have stopped looking for an "Aha Moment," or any one thing that is going to cure me. Trauma recovery is going to be a life long process. The six of us may never become one person, but as my System heals, it is becoming less and less important for me to spend separate time as a girl. I am beginning to feel safe expressing the things that really matter as Primary. And to realize I never really needed to be a girl to think, or feel, or do any of that like my mind told me I did to protect itself when I was small."

Trauma recovery has been the most painful experience of my life but I am slowly becoming the person I was meant to be. I still steer the ship most of the time but my alters and I take life one day at a time. Flytrap and I have a comfortable balance and it is extremely important to us both that the people we know see us as a cisgender girl and guy. Apart from my immediate family and doctors, only a handful of people in either of our own lives know we have DID and opposite gender alters.

I know how strong a person's need to transition can be and how confident they can be that it is right for them. But I understand now how rarely that means a person is transsexual- particularly if there is any history of childhood sexual abuse. My doctors' mistake nearly cost the life I spent 50 years building only to leave me no better off as a woman than I was as a man. Looking back over the last 9 years it's hard to understand why DID isn't the go to diagnosis when a person has a need to express themself as another gender.

***END TRIGGER WARNING***

I guess you're an outlier.


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Quote from: Gertrude on September 27, 2017, 09:53:38 AM
I guess you're an outlier.


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I'm sorry you went through all that. But because you decided you aren't transsexual and detransitioned don't try to tell us that most people who transition are not really transgender. There are enough quacks in the medical community trying to find "medical " reasons to deny transpeople hrt and the procedures that they need. While I feel genuine sympathy for anyone who has been sexually abused I don't think its any more common among transpeople than anyone else. I certainly was never sexually abused.

Quote from: Julia1996 on September 27, 2017, 10:11:13 AM
I'm sorry you went through all that. But because you decided you aren't transsexual and detransitioned don't try to tell us that most people who transition are not really transgender. There are enough quacks in the medical community trying to find "medical " reasons to deny transpeople hrt and the procedures that they need. While I feel genuine sympathy for anyone who has been sexually abused I don't think its any more common among transpeople than anyone else. I certainly was never sexually abused.

I have been not on this site too much but then today when I came on I saw a thread that was in relatiation to one I made a rather long time ago, like 3 or 4 months ago. I am really really sorry you had things happen to you as a little kid but you are as Gertrude said, an outlier. The statement or even the idea that normal trans people become  trans due to abuse and  such is insulting and quite frankly wrong and shallow minded. I respect yoru courage to do the hard work, but granted it may have been best to tell it flat out a long time ago. When you say trans people transition due to former traumas it is no different then when the bigots were saying the same thing about gays and lesbians 15-20 years ago. Its just stating such hateful and factually incorrect statement such as those are more acceptable these days when applied to trans* then LGB. Also, it infuses doubt and shame among real trans* people who are indeed trans if they had every gone through trauma. Their idenity should not be invalidated to make the simple minded folks lives easier.

In addition that is why I made that thread. There are many detransitoners who go back or find themselves more middle ground then they are full transsexual and there is no shame to be either as long as you are being yourself and yourself only. Sadly it is true, there seems to be a rather small number with a loud voice that because THEY did not seek the right help, that THEY chose this journey, that more times then not THEY were telling the gender therapists the things they wanted to hear and not the hardship, and i mean any hardship that THEY got themselves into and  this area (housing, employment, sub conscious doubts due to birth gender up bringing/internailzed transphobia, society pushing assianged gender, sexual assult before or during transition, ect). Again, I have absoultley no ill feelings toward people who end up detransitioning as many have reasons and need the help and tools to be happy, they need to live their lives and if I could be of assistance and we were friends I would wanna help. But I refuse to be a sacrificial lamb to an angry few of them who were miserable before, during and after transition and somehow want to pin blame on everyone else but themselves.


I used Walt Heyer as the best example as he didnt do the hard work. He lied and gave rose coloured stories to his therapists because he didnt find value in expressing his conflict and his past. Where I am the opposite, I spent years talking about any issues, often finding myself doing self sabotage without knowing it really to prevent me from being happy as being the woman i am. After doing the hard work i can say that even after all the stuff I been through I do not have DID and in addition my gender feelings are valid through dysphoria and only dysphoria. Again, I am really sorry you had a rough time but it is nobody elses fault.

I was not really sure what to expect when I started reading this thread, and I'm still a little confused honestly.

I will say this though... Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with misdiagnosis. Perhaps my personal one was not as extreme as yours, but as a child I was shuffled around between numerous doctors and had a number of procedures and tests that went nowhere, and in the end it was probably the single most obvious answer no one had considered with me suffering from OCD and generalized anxiety disorder (symptoms being the physical reaction to such disorders, such as nerve driven extreme nausea). But they had their minds made up that it was colitis or maybe an upper GI obstruction, or something they could cure with a little bit of medical know how and a hefty bill.

My mother then had a bit more extreme misdiagnosis for a non-psychological problem, as the symptoms of a somewhat rare form ovarian-peritoneal cancer was mistaken for simple gall stones (and it wasn't until they went to surgically remove the stones months later, after the cacner progressed to late stage 3/early stage 4, they realized their mistake).

My point is, I get it. It sucks. Misdiagnosis can be expensive as hell, and I don't mean just financially. It can ruin lives, or simply cost them outright. But they are also statistical exceptions. And it does tend to occur around rarer illnesses, such as my mom's form of cancer or your degree of DID simply as a matter of logistics. But again, statistical exception. Your misdiagnosis does not invalidate the millions of spot-on diagnoses.

I mostly wanted to state this because you referenced how so many people are so confidant... But even a cursory glance through this forum shows that is far from the truth. I am not 100% confident in myself and the path I am on, I've said as much several times. Advice after advice from people say often "there is no 100%". Questioning ourselves, our motivations, our goals... that's normal, healthy even. If we stop questioning anything in life that is a bad thing. But undermining the confidence people do have is not the same as suggesting they question it, and I feel that is what you may be doing here. Questioning something and coming to an answer ultimately will make a person stronger, but simply undermining something only tears it down. I don't know if this makes sense, this is just what I feel about reading this post. I probably shouldn't even say anything. :|

Quote from: Julia1996 on September 27, 2017, 10:11:13 AM
I'm sorry you went through all that. But because you decided you aren't transsexual and detransitioned don't try to tell us that most people who transition are not really transgender. There are enough quacks in the medical community trying to find "medical " reasons to deny transpeople hrt and the procedures that they need. While I feel genuine sympathy for anyone who has been sexually abused I don't think its any more common among transpeople than anyone else. I certainly was never sexually abused.

You quoted the wrong person


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It's just raw meat for Paul mchugh fans and SoCons. It's totally in a very small minority and if analyzed, supports the idea that we're born with it. Some people are misfortunate in not getting the help they need.


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Quote from: Gertrude on September 27, 2017, 03:17:15 PM
You quoted the wrong person


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Yes I did. I'm sorry Gertrude.

I'm sorry you were misdiagnosed, but it happens. And, based on the little of the story you have shared, it was probably an understandable misdiagnosis.

As for suggesting that most trans people have DID rather than trans? Ridiculous. And the science supports most people being trans.

I had no significant trauma as a child or teen, and I'd have expected to kick over any anthills in the 3.5 or so years I was in therapy.

Like others have said, what you went through is unfortunate but far from the norm.

Apart from the ever-looming 'wrongness' of my birth gender, I had a perfectly healthy, love-filled childhood and suffered zero sexual/physical abuse.

While sexual abuse in and of itself should not bar someone for transitioning, it should be encouraged that a survivor seek counsel for their trauma prior to taking medical actions to change their sex. Sexual trauma can cause severe bodily discomfort, especially surrounding sex organs, and it is not impossible that someone could mistake this disconnect with their body as transsexualism. I feel it is in their best interest. Especially since, if the trauma is unresolved, transitioning could exacerbate the symptoms with the stresses that generally come from the process.

The same goes for schizophrenic/schizo-affective/borderline personality disorder/DID, etc.

An understanding of the concept of a "diagnosis of exclusion" might be useful.

Suppose you came to me with a complaint of chest pain.  In the end, it might turn out to be anxiety related, but it would be medical malpractice to assume that before other potential threats had been addressed.  Consider the possibility of a heart attack and do the appropriate tests.  Might this be a collapsed lung?  Does this person have known risks for blood clots?  Which tests are warranted and which unnecessarily risky? 

Anxiety may become a more reasonable explanation for chest pain as the list of other possibilities are whittled away.  The process can be slow and stuttering, often involving educated guesses and trials of therapy.  Sometimes these guesses are wrong.  Medicine in real life is far less certain than medicine on TV. 

Of course there are sucky doctors who aren't good at what they do, but I've known far more who are quite good but got fooled by a complex problem. 

Quote from: rmaddy on October 16, 2017, 12:33:43 AM
An understanding of the concept of a "diagnosis of exclusion" might be useful.

Agree. People are missing that this was the OP's point. Unlike someone who is transsexual, Flytrap did not feel their doctor's diagnosis fit. With there being other  reasons a person would need to express themself as another gender like DID and sexual abuse, their therapist should not have zeroed in on and continued to press the diagnosis that the OP was a "transsexual in denial." Whether Flytrap had a sucky doctor or their doctor was fooled by a complex problem, it was "medical malpractice to assume that before other potential threats had been addressed. "

Sexual abuse and long periods of therapy to whittle away the underlying cause shouldn't keep a transsexual from transitioning. But as the OP pointed out, transsexualism shares symptoms with other more common conditions. And particularly when there is a history of sexual abuse, it is the therapist's responsibility to be sure it is not the underlying cause of their patient's need to express themself as another gender.

I the struggle is in creating a balance between the affirmation-only model, and the "gatekeeping" model. Something along the lines of not denying treatment, but establishing a waiting period, and prescribing treatment for comorbidity, before transition begins. Also, I think some doctors might feel afraid to question a patient's transsexual status, because it may lead to them being labeled as transphobic.

What we need is more research into the phenomenon of "pseudo-transsexualism", so doctors can better recognize the signs of it, rather than lumping anyone with cross-gender feelings into the transsexual category, which is bad for pseudo-transsexuals, and actual transsexuals. And trans activists need to open up to the possibility that gender dysphoria in and of itself is not, in and of itself, indicative of transsexualism, and that transition should not be seen as the only available option for the gender dysphoric.

Well like many who can ignore such a warning...

First, transgender people likely make up much more than .06% of the population. We are only now reaching a beginning point where more people are able to come forward and understand themselves.

I'm confused about the OPs assertion that they were diagnosed as transexual, when this is something that is not known to be something a health care professional's diagnosis provides. Isn't it self-diagnosed? I'm not doubting it happened. Doctors do all sorts of things, but i am confused.

I agree this is an outlier and this sort of thing can be wrongfully used by anti-trans people. I respect your desire to help others avoid similar situations, but i'm not sure this is a way to do it. Your assertion that people's understanding of themselves is rare or misdiagnosed is frankly hurtful.

Finally, I'm sorry that you had to deal with all of this and as a person that has dealt with mental illness her whole life, i know how hard it can be.

I had to leave out alot of the detail, RobynD. The story is too long and complicated to put in a single post. You can read more in my intro at: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218553.msg1934547.html#msg1934547

I am crushed by the things a few of you have accused me of saying and doing. I am not an outlier- I AM A PERSON.

I know my misdiagnosis fits the anti-trans agenda. I ran my draft through the moderators to make sure I wasn't saying anything bad and even put a trigger warning at the beginning to keep from upsetting anyone. There are no claims or assumptions about transgender people in my post. I wrote about me. And it was very wrong of some of you to turn that around and accuse me of saying something hurtful or trying to invalidate anyone's sense of self.

Rmaddy, Virginia and Allie24 summed it up really well. There is struggle is in creating a balance between the affirmation-only model, and the "gatekeeping" model. Therapists have a duty to whittle away the other possibilities before making their diagnosis that a person is transsexual. And it is very important for anyone who is trying to figure out why they need to themself as another gender to realize child abuse and dissociative disorders are another possibility to being transgender.

Quote from: flytrap on October 16, 2017, 02:42:34 PM
I am crushed by the things a few of you have accused me of saying and doing. I am not an outlier- I AM ME.

You are 100% right, you are not an outlier, you are you, and that is important. No individual should be reduced to a statistical anomaly, though I do not believe that is what anyone truly intended by the phrasing. When people said you are an outlier I believe they only meant in the sense of the misdiagnosis being an outlier, as it is statistically rare for someone diagnosed as transgender to actually be a case of a DID alter. That does not impugn who you are or what happened to you in the slightest, and please don't think it does!

Quote
it was very wrong of some of you to turn that around and accuse me of saying something hurtful or trying to invalidate anyone's sense of self.

I hope that I did not come across as accusing in this regard, and if I did I sincerely apologize. I do not think your intent was to be hurtful or invalidating, and I do understand what you were trying to say. I just felt that, perhaps, it was not said in the best manner, and regardless of intention did feel dismissive of both the diagnoses and the very real doubts so many of us just beginning face on a daily basis.

Quote from: flytrap on October 16, 2017, 02:42:34 PM
\
I am crushed by the things a few of you have accused me of saying and doing. I am not an outlier- I AM A PERSON. .

Rmaddy, Virginia and Allie24 summed it up really well. There is struggle is in creating a balance between the affirmation-only model, and the "gatekeeping" model. Therapists have a duty to whittle away the other possibilities before making their diagnosis that a person is transsexual. And it is very important for anyone who is trying to figure out why they need to themself as another gender to realize child abuse and dissociative disorders are another possibility to being transgender.

\\

I can totally understand that and i apologize for extending the term. You definitely are a person and have been through a lot it seems.

A pretty large percentage of people our age at least have experienced abuse for sure (myself included), i imagine we have no real idea how many because the baby boomers and gen x folks grew up in times where you stifled such things. The affirmation model is not as free form as many people think it is i think. Sometimes there are multiple therapists (certainly for GCS surgery there usually is), disclosures and many consider it for a very long time.

Thanks for the link to your intro. I have never really heard much about doctors putting someone on hormones solely because of gender presentation but i'm sure it has happened. My own experience is where therapists said, look you are right it could be this, have you considered low dose hormones to see if it helps? And then my decision process kicked in.

Like roll said yeah outlier was about the even and not you, i also have no issues with you pointing out this can happen to others, i think it was the manner it was communicated and as we know this communication mode lacks nuance.

Quote from: RobynD on October 16, 2017, 10:17:25 AM
I'm confused about the OPs assertion that they were diagnosed as transexual, when this is something that is not known to be something a health care professional's diagnosis provides. Isn't it self-diagnosed? I'm not doubting it happened. Doctors do all sorts of things, but i am confused.

I'm confused about this also. I have no diagnosis, just a referral for hormones that indicated I was a good candidate for hormonal reassignment. And yes, it generally considered a self diagnosis.

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 16, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
I'm confused about this (the OPs assertion that they were diagnosed as transexual) also.

Perhaps you are not familiar with insurance protocol in the United States? Doctors must provide a diagnosis so they can be reimbursed for services rendered. In the case of someone diagnosed with gender dysphoria from transsexualism, this diagnosis is eventually forwarded to an endocrinologist via a letter referring the patient for HRT.

Back to topic:

Quote. . . I wanted to share my experience and perspectives with others who are not certain transition is right for them.

Flytrap thx for sharing an amazing story like Kelly implied not all of us are dependant on the "medical establishment" for anything I could have an "endo letter" tomorrow, if needs be, from a therapist who is herself transgendered but Father TIME is often the best diagnostic indicator, not all of us "(wiser ones?)" are in a crisis hurry for often "life-changing", "transformative" results.

Suppose I need to include myself in your category of 'not certain" about 100% transition but I am certain that I am transgendered . . . It's just have been content in my only skin for over 40yrs be it "male" or "female" but you are right to be concerned. I've met other TG individuals who definitely have other "diagnostic issues" but when it comes to "gender dysphoria" ???

Gee what a remarkably precise, scientific term (note hint of sarcasm) that otherwise defies, RESISTS all attempts at further "classification"!!! Why is that???? Now some would say "well, if you don't transition your not transgendered" but I say "what came first? The chicken or the egg?"

Roll and RobynD-
I was touched that you were big enough people to say "I'm sorry." I tried real hard not to offend anyone with what I knew was a difficult subject. And I am sorry I didn't do as good a job as I thought I had.

@ Kiera,
I really appreciate you bringing my post back on topic. And that you realized why I felt this was important to share the things that happened to me in the Non-Transitioning and Detransitioning forum. It just isn't clear cut for some people, so it's important to have as much information as you can before making any life changing decisions.

Quote from: Virginia on October 16, 2017, 05:41:57 PM
Perhaps you are not familiar with insurance protocol in the United States? Doctors must provide a diagnosis so they can be reimbursed for services rendered. In the case of someone diagnosed with gender dysphoria from transsexualism, this diagnosis is eventually forwarded to an endocrinologist via a letter referring the patient for HRT.

This is only sort of true though. Under informed consent, the patient does self diagnose but the doctor puts the diagnosis into the medical record, so that insurance companies will pay for the medical intervention. So in that way it happens.

Hmmm.... Deciding to jump in.

Gender dysphoira is a self-diagnosed type of thing. No-one can tell you flat out you are. Seeing a therapist, they are supposed to help you understand these feelings. I guess flytrap got themselves into a crappy situation with a counsellor not totally in check.  This is not something you can be blamed for, but I will add my 2 cents as this thread was made in a retaliation to my old own from like May.

One thing to look out for as a patient is leading questions. If they ask pointed yes or no questions influenced in either way that is a red alarm. You are supposed to be pouring your heart out and they can be able to tell you what that may be. I dont recall being told flat out by someone ''You're trans'', per say. I do recall after telling them my life, feelings and experiences they did say I sound like a typical trans-girl, and they did say they agree that I am trans but never I wasnt told flat out I was or was not. For me I wanted HRT badly. My first counselling appointment was January 19th 2015 and that will be a day I will never forget. I wanted HRT so badly and to move on with transition, and my counsellor who told me that I seem very much like someone who will benefit from a full transition empathized with my stuggle. Still, proper protocal had to take place and I wouldnt even get my T-blocker until nearly half a year later. Which is why when I hear some people who de-transition  (the bitter ones I mentioned months ago) seemingly say that they got full HRT on their first visit I tend to be skeptical. I begged and cried for HRT in Jan 2015 and even then I still had to wait. I cant say I know everyones experience, and flytrap I never made any issue with you at all. My thing was with some people who detransition (and my post was directed mainly to the Walt Heyers of the world, not you) is that they did what they did fine, but if it didnt work out then now we all have to suffer and in their minds transition then becomes never acceptable. Most de-transitioners are not like that in the slightest, and I never got that vibe from you and yes I do agree 100%that if you transition you should work on all aspects of mental health. Not because I am in the beleif that trans-feelings are due to something else (as those cases are rare), but I think that while you work on transition which is great, you do need to address any number of issues on the way to make a transition just that more successful. That is what I am doing so when I wake up from the operation hopefully Autumn next year I can indeed begin a new journey unshackled from any past issues there may be.

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on October 17, 2017, 02:11:56 PM
Hmmm.... Deciding to jump in.

Gender dysphoira is a self-diagnosed type of thing. No-one can tell you flat out you are. Seeing a therapist, they are supposed to help you understand these feelings. I guess flytrap got themselves into a crappy situation with a counsellor not totally in check.  This is not something you can be blamed for, but I will add my 2 cents as this thread was made in a retaliation to my old own from like May.

One thing to look out for as a patient is leading questions. If they ask pointed yes or no questions influenced in either way that is a red alarm. You are supposed to be pouring your heart out and they can be able to tell you what that may be. I dont recall being told flat out by someone ''You're trans'', per say. I do recall after telling them my life, feelings and experiences they did say I sound like a typical trans-girl, and they did say they agree that I am trans but never I wasnt told flat out I was or was not. For me I wanted HRT badly. My first counselling appointment was January 19th 2015 and that will be a day I will never forget. I wanted HRT so badly and to move on with transition, and my counsellor who told me that I seem very much like someone who will benefit from a full transition empathized with my stuggle. Still, proper protocal had to take place and I wouldnt even get my T-blocker until nearly half a year later. Which is why when I hear some people who de-transition  (the bitter ones I mentioned months ago) seemingly say that they got full HRT on their first visit I tend to be skeptical. I begged and cried for HRT in Jan 2015 and even then I still had to wait. I cant say I know everyones experience, and flytrap I never made any issue with you at all. My thing was with some people who detransition (and my post was directed mainly to the Walt Heyers of the world, not you) is that they did what they did fine, but if it didnt work out then now we all have to suffer and in their minds transition then becomes never acceptable. Most de-transitioners are not like that in the slightest, and I never got that vibe from you and yes I do agree 100%that if you transition you should work on all aspects of mental health. Not because I am in the beleif that trans-feelings are due to something else (as those cases are rare), but I think that while you work on transition which is great, you do need to address any number of issues on the way to make a transition just that more successful. That is what I am doing so when I wake up from the operation hopefully Autumn next year I can indeed begin a new journey unshackled from any past issues there may be.

Maybe it's because Illinois is a Blue State, but I got HRT within a month of my requesting it. I told my therapist (who was a gender therapist, specifically) and he directed me to Howard Brown Health Center, which is based in Chicago and is now where I go to for checkups. So I think that depending on where you live and how many rules are in place determines how long it takes to start HRT.

Really? damn, wish I went there 2 years ago!! I begged for hrt.

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on October 17, 2017, 04:40:37 PM
Really? damn, wish I went there 2 years ago!! I begged for hrt.

Where do you live? That might explain the difficulty in getting start on HRT.

Which makes for a very important point in regards to the issue of de-transitioners who feel like they got HRT, etc. too easily. It could very well be true, especially if they live in a very liberal state (like Illinois). No doubt I could be Joe off the street and get approved for HRT so long as I said I was trans. Not that I think anyone is that crazy.

Ontario, a Canada... possibley the most liberal place in North America after Quebec. Thats what is suprising. Tho, that was when CAMH was still calling the shots I think province wide. I think by that summer the Ontario governemnt changed quotas to make it easier/less gate keeping.

Quote from: Allie24 on October 17, 2017, 04:35:43 PM
Maybe it's because Illinois is a Blue State, but I got HRT within a month of my requesting it. I told my therapist (who was a gender therapist, specifically) and he directed me to Howard Brown Health Center, which is based in Chicago and is now where I go to for checkups. So I think that depending on where you live and how many rules are in place determines how long it takes to start HRT.

I too got it within a month here in Oregon.

This is a tough post to digest and work through.

Quote from: flytrap on September 27, 2017, 09:25:00 AM
Quoting Flytrap:
"I have slowly come to the point that I have stopped looking for an "Aha Moment," ...  And to realize I never really needed to be a girl to think, or feel, or do any of that like my mind told me I did to protect itself when I was small."

This is a tough post to digest and consider. I've been thinking about it for days. I'm still so new in all this it is a tough thought to turn over when your in the throes of denial and trying to lift away alot of repression. Life often feels a kind of unreal now. You can be plauged by feelings of not being enough, will i be accepted not just by society but by other transgender people. Am I real, is this real? Shame, internalized transphobia. You can spend alot of time thinking its in your head, or maybe your not as far on the spectrum... and yet long for transition and want what other girls have worked for with hrt and surgery and lots and lots of therapy at the same time.

What happen if I do all this and it doesnt resolve my issues with gender I have had since... as far back as I know.

I've resolved at this point that maybe the best i'm gonna know for a long time is that there is no AHA moment coming. Or it came, but i'm so wrapped up in neurosis like shame and doubt that I didnt experience it like I would have if it were something innocuous.

This line is tough for me too... "I never really needed to be a girl.."... maybe. ...but I WANT it. Not to turn your thing into mine, but thats how everything on this subject comes through, right? Through our own prism.

I mean theres a place here where my need and my want overlap and I'm not sure there isnt a kind of hybrid, where I want something so much I may just need it to survive or to live happy or to be authentic. I could live unauthentic, I can see that, i've done it 40 long years.

Whats a need and a want when youre miserable? Is living just existing, or is it about balancing the hard with the good, the hard with the easy... sad, mad and fullfilled, joy. Hell, shooting for joy and fullfillment most of the time?

i'm so damn tired and weary of not being able to just be whoever it is I am...

I guess what I am saying is... On something like this, this diffuse of a spectrum. There is what works for you, where you find fulfillment and joy and there is what does this for others. I believe that will be at authenticity, whatever that means for you.

All this knowledge we have... psych/science... was built on crisp lines and we're something else. We in ourselves might feel crisp and sure, but as a whole people we're diffuse. I think we have to accept doubly so for us, that these things will not even be shades of either/or but just shades ofalot of points. I think it will take science of mental and physical nature ages to come to terms with this, but it doesnt have to take us ages.

I hope you have found or will find your little piece of this and find some kind of peace.

@katiekatt
Wow. Just wow. Tears. Love Flytrap

Quote from: flytrap on October 22, 2017, 04:37:35 PM
@katiekatt
Wow. Just wow. Tears. Love Flytrap

I know, right? Poignant doesn't even begin to describe some of Katie's posts! <3