Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey folks, I've been on HRT now for just about 3 months.  I honestly can't tell if anything is happening.  My nipples are still sore, but there's been no growth.  I kinda feel like they've gotten smaller even.  I know it's early, just want to know what to look for as afirmation that this process is working,  I feel like my GD is coming back since I'm not moving forward, or maybe I still am, but don't notice.  Mixed up here.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on September 29, 2017, 12:34:28 AM
Hey folks, I've been on HRT now for just about 3 months.  I honestly can't tell if anything is happening.  My nipples are still sore, but there's been no growth.  I kinda feel like they've gotten smaller even.  I know it's early, just want to know what to look for as afirmation that this process is working,  I feel like my GD is coming back since I'm not moving forward, or maybe I still am, but don't notice.  Mixed up here.

I asked the same question at the three month mark. :)  All I was seeing was softer morning erections and perhaps a little drier skin, though I wasn't sure it was from the colder weather. I didn't even have the widely reported sensitive nipples. Oh, yeah, less ejaculate. Things really picked up towards the end of the fourth month for me. As we say, YMMV.

All the best,
--AshleyP

Quote from: AshleyP on September 29, 2017, 12:41:44 AM
I asked the same question at the three month mark. :)  All I was seeing was softer morning erections and perhaps a little drier skin, though I wasn't sure it was from the colder weather. I didn't even have the widely reported sensitive nipples. Oh, yeah, less ejaculate. Things really picked up towards the end of the fourth month for me. As we say, YMMV.

All the best,
--AshleyP

I haven't even had an erection in 2.5 months, which I love.  I know that part is working just nothing else.  I'm worried that when I was younger I took aromatase inhibitors and that's messing up transitioning.  I thought those were for only converting t to e, not killing off e.  Worried, depressed.  I hope you are right Ashley.

Bari Jo

I have been on HRT for 2.5 months.  For me the physical changes have been some minor swelling to the breast area & permanently erect, sore nipples and my skin is much softer and less oily.  Mentally the dysphoria has generally subsided and I am far less aggressive - I wasn't really aggressive before but suffered badly when driving and that has stopped.  Erections had all but stopped and libido was down to pretty much nothing

I thought these changes were fairly insignificant until I had a problem with a change in my meds which has pretty much led to me detransitioning over the last couple of weeks.  It has been awful - my skin felt horrible and constantly dirty not to mention the acne that was starting to develop.  The spontaneous erections and libido returned.  Worst of all though was the return of dysphoria, depression and an angry aggression like I've never had before

Luckily things seem to be stabilising again now but what I have realised is how big these small changes actually are even if they don't appear like massive things on the surface.  As body changes take a couple of years or more in cis girls, I guess the more noticeable physical changes will start to happen in the next few months

I remember thinking the same many years ago. HRT physical effects varies from one person to another but the first thing I noticed was very tender nipples. Its important that you use a doctor/endo who fully understands TG mtf, a normal Dr or endo tends to keep your E levels at cis female level. The other ladies, who have been on hrt for many years, on this forum, were so helpful when I started, l as I was concerned by my high E results. I understand we need these higher levels to encourage the physical feminisation.

The greatest change for me, which I noticed in the first 3 months, was my mental perception  and my significant increase in empathy.

I'm coming up to 2 years on HRT and still noticing new changes. Try not to worry and not think about it. You will change but it's going to take a very long time. I agree with warlockmaker too, find yourself a doctor who knows their stuff. I'm lucky that my doctor is transgender as well and she aims for a generous amount of E through an implant every 6 months as well as my daily oral dosage. I also think the potent T blocker she put me on has made a world of difference.

My first doctor had me on low dosages of everything and the changes weren't happening.

Unfortunately, HRT is a very slow process. Think of molasses in January. Slower than a snail race. Real noticeable results are measured in years, not months.

Yes, tender nipples are a first sign that something is changing. Many of us report about 60% breast growth in the first year and another 25% the next year. It takes about 3 to 5 years before we fully develop to our full genetic potential. Teenage girls do not develop over night. Expect the same unless you are in a hurry and get a BA right away.

Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on September 29, 2017, 05:41:47 AM
I'm coming up to 2 years on HRT and still noticing new changes. Try not to worry and not think about it. You will change but it's going to take a very long time. I agree with warlockmaker too, find yourself a doctor who knows their stuff. I'm lucky that my doctor is transgender as well and she aims for a generous amount of E through an implant every 6 months as well as my daily oral dosage. I also think the potent T blocker she put me on has made a world of difference.

My first doctor had me on low dosages of everything and the changes weren't happening.

I think the doctor is fine.  Her business is only trans clients.  My initial e value before pellets was 185, t was forgotten at the lab, so we stuck with the same spiro dose till the next test, which is three weeks down the road from now.  Yes, those are my initial because of I was heavily into diy.  I'm including the diy time in my time estimates since my doctor knows the dosages I was doing and they are standard.  I switched to pellets just so I wouldn't have to think about my next e pill, and I like the idea of it in me now, no choice but to ride it out.  Psychologically that's needed in my head.

I'll stick it out, frustrated, it sounds like others go through the same lull at around the same mark.  I will say I do have a calmness which is nice.  It has also brought down my GD considerably.  I won't say how I was, but I would run back to my doctor if I thought that was coming back like it was.  I just am frustrated that it feels like I'm coasting with no destination in sight.

I could let the breast growth take decades as I've never had GD based on that, and would be fine with an a cup.  I'm only 5'6" anyway, an a wouldn't be totally out of place.  I want my face to be softer, skin softer, more feminine, etc.  if my face could talk, and tell me it's changing.  Oh you know what I mean.

Bari Jo

Disappointment with HRT usually comes from unrealistic expectations for HRT.  You will undergo changes for 3-5 years.  Think of how long it takes for estrogen to make a woman out of an adolescent girl, and she doesn't even have the issue of prior testosterone to overcome.

If you read posts here, people talk about changes in days to weeks.  Their story to tell, I suppose, but its a marathon, not a sprint. 

Let it go, if you can.  Just remember it is ongoing and really quite early in the process. 

HRT is a slow process and it's mostly in a 1-2 years when u look back at photos that you'll see the difference.

Quote from: Dani on September 29, 2017, 07:13:32 AM
Unfortunately, HRT is a very slow process. Think of molasses in January. Slower than a snail race. Real noticeable results are measured in years, not months.

Yes, tender nipples are a first sign that something is changing. Many of us report about 60% breast growth in the first year and another 25% the next year. It takes about 3 to 5 years before we fully develop to our full genetic potential. Teenage girls do not develop over night. Expect the same unless you are in a hurry and get a BA right away.

Oh, the humanity! Here in Boston we can't help but think of molasses in January.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood 

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: kanad3 on September 29, 2017, 09:17:09 AM
HRT is a slow process and it's mostly in a 1-2 years when u look back at photos that you'll see the difference.

ACK, Alrighty, didn't realize it's was that slow to notice.  I'll hang in there.

Bari Jo

I expected to follow the norm that is that graph that people often link, or at least something akin to it.

Fate, it would seem, thinks differently. Everything is running 4-5 months ahead of that graph.

I'm 1.5 months in and my chest is swollen or something, itchy, and my nips hurt and shirts are a pain. I have to walk down stairs slowly, or hold my shirt out in front of me or else I have problems.

The friend of mine that I came out to didn't have quick results herself she said. Truly is YMMV.

I think that if after about 3-4 months on HRT (or since last change), there is absolutely no breast growth and in general, other things are slow coming, a change is justified. But, you need to discuss this with your doctor, as always.

Also remember that when you see yourself everyday, you are far less likely to notice the gradual changes! Not just with HRT, but with everything both regarding yourself and things around you. When I first started dropping a lot of weight, I'd look in the mirror and just wonder why I didn't look thinner. But every time I'd see someone I hadn't seen in a few months their first comment would always be "Oh my god you've lost a ton of weight".

Quote from: Roll on September 29, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
Also remember that when you see yourself everyday, you are far less likely to notice the gradual changes! Not just with HRT, but with everything both regarding yourself and things around you. When I first started dropping a lot of weight, I'd look in the mirror and just wonder why I didn't look thinner. But every time I'd see someone I hadn't seen in a few months their first comment would always be "Oh my god you've lost a ton of weight".

Thanks Roll, yes, I am having those experiences.  I've lost 32 lbs is 4 months.  I'm not a skinny girl as I want to be, but am not fat anymore by any means.

Bari Jo

Quote from: KayXo on September 29, 2017, 10:54:06 AM
I think that if after about 3-4 months on HRT (or since last change), there is absolutely no breast growth and in general, other things are slow coming, a change is justified. But, you need to discuss this with your doctor, as always.

I talked with my doctor.  She thinks it's too early to tell if a change is needed.  In a few weeks I have another test scheduled and we will know then.

Also the question about aromatase inhibitors, she says no worries on that.  Typically the do break their bonds within 48 hours, but even if they didn't the feminization process doesn't rely on them.  That's good news for me.

Bari Jo

Doctors aren't going to be interested in testing over frequently.  We transfolk often want to know our levels at any given moment, but they understand the long view, and the therepeutic range is broad and easily maintained for the most part.

I've been on hrt for 2 years.  Most of the really noticible changes for me , increased breast size, my hips and butt filling out and my thighs filling out only started happening during the second year. And since it's only been 2 years I haven't even reached the full effects yet. It is totally slow. But there's no way to make it go faster or believe me I would have done it.

I'm probably moving at the quickest I can.  Once the beard is clear, I may start presenting as Bari Jo.  I can't wait for that!  So it'll take a while to clear it, but hopefully hrt will make my face look more feminine by then.

BTW, throughout hrt and losing weight, I've gone from a size 10 men's show to a size 9 ladies.  I'm not complaining there, happy girl here indeed.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on September 30, 2017, 04:58:49 PM
I'm probably moving at the quickest I can.  Once the beard is clear, I may start presenting as Bari Jo.  I can't wait for that!  So it'll take a while to clear it, but hopefully hrt will make my face look more feminine by then.

BTW, throughout hrt and losing weight, I've gone from a size 10 men's show to a size 9 ladies.  I'm not complaining there, happy girl here indeed.

Bari Jo

I've heard that happens. But my feet got bigger on hrt! I went from 5 1/2 to 6. Not fair. :icon_sadblinky:

I would have guessed that size 6 would have been easier to find in stores.

Quote from: Bari Jo on September 30, 2017, 04:58:49 PM

BTW, throughout hrt and losing weight, I've gone from a size 10 men's show to a size 9 ladies.  I'm not complaining there, happy girl here indeed.

Bari Jo

Ohhh, does HRT reduce foot size more? Does it rearrange fat even from the feet or something?

I noticed the other day that my shoes were really loose, and think I dropped a full size from when I started losing weight. It completely caught me off guard, I didn't know it was even possible. (My step-mother said a lot of it is that with more weight, your feet swell because of it and so when you drop it you aren't actually getting smaller feet, they are just returning to their real size.)

On that topic, has anyone ever noticed narrowing of hands? My hand length is actually notably smaller than male normal, but hand width is not. If I hold my hands the right way they look feminine because of the smaller length, but the width when noticed is a little off. If they narrow even a tiny bit that would be amazing. (I'm thinking of the fat padding on the side mostly.)

I think it's probably just from weight loss, but not complaining:)

Quote from: Roll on September 30, 2017, 09:12:20 PM
Ohhh, does HRT reduce foot size more? Does it rearrange fat even from the feet or something?

I noticed the other day that my shoes were really loose, and think I dropped a full size from when I started losing weight. It completely caught me off guard, I didn't know it was even possible. (My step-mother said a lot of it is that with more weight, your feet swell because of it and so when you drop it you aren't actually getting smaller feet, they are just returning to their real size.)

On that topic, has anyone ever noticed narrowing of hands? My hand length is actually notably smaller than male normal, but hand width is not. If I hold my hands the right way they look feminine because of the smaller length, but the width when noticed is a little off. If they narrow even a tiny bit that would be amazing. (I'm thinking of the fat padding on the side mostly.)

I haven't noticed any change in my hands. The size is the same.  But I've always had small hands anyway.

My hands and feet stayed the same size.  My body got a lot smaller although it hasn't gotten much weaker.  My back and legs have even gotten stronger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On spiro, the loss of water/sodium may lead to shrinkage of extremities.

Quote from: KayXo on October 01, 2017, 05:08:07 PM
On spiro, the loss of water/sodium may lead to shrinkage of extremities.

1/2 to a whole size lost on cypro..

Quote from: KayXo on October 01, 2017, 05:08:07 PM
On spiro, the loss of water/sodium may lead to shrinkage of extremities.

Temporarily.  The diuretic effect diminishes with length of use.  The water will be back.

Quote from: rmaddy on October 01, 2017, 05:36:55 PM
Temporarily.  The diuretic effect diminishes with length of use.  The water will be back.

If that was the case, then clearly it wouldn't be prescribed as blood pressure would be back up again and anti-androgenic effect should also diminish with time, applying the same principle. Also, upon stopping spiro, it's quite common to feel swollen again. I think, as long as spiro is taken, the decrease in water retention will persist and might be responsible for the smaller extremities.

Using your logic, which isn't based on a shred of actual evidence, feet would also shrink on lasix, hydrochlorothiazide, bumetonide, etc.  They don't, unless there was edema prior to prescription.  Edema sufficient to raise a foot size in the typical young, otherwise healthy trans female is quite unlikely.

In general, MTF's do not experience reduction in foot size.  Exceptions to this rule generally occur in those cases where there is significant weight loss.  The underlying skeleton is unaffected, and most of the muscle which moves the foot actually resides in the lower leg.

Quote from: rmaddy on October 02, 2017, 04:44:20 PM
In general, MTF's do not experience reduction in foot size.  Exceptions to this rule generally occur in those cases where there is significant weight loss.  The underlying skeleton is unaffected, and most of the muscle which moves the foot actually resides in the lower leg.

Ah well, HRT seems so magical to me right now I was being unrealistic. :D

I'd suggest asking your doctor for a Free Testosterone, Direct blood test.  I had normal T levels like at 24 for a while.  I thought everything was okay.  But then I started growing hairs here and there (very sparse but annoying.. a few on face even).  We did a Free Testosterone, Direct test and normal range is 0.8 to 4.2 and well I was 5.6.  Upped the spiro and estradiol by 33% and latest Free Testosterone was 0.4 -- but this was 4 hours after a spiro pill.  My last fasting Free Testosterone test was 3.6.  From now on I'll be doing fasting tests.. i.e. before I take spiro in the morning.

I'm not sure if this was for me or not,  I will be getting a test in about 3 weeks now, can't wait, but I will:)

QuoteI will be getting a test in about 3 weeks now

Don't forget to study!   ;)

Quote from: AnneK on October 04, 2017, 09:20:20 AM
Don't forget to study!   ;)

Hee hee, I remember doing everything I could diet wise to flush out toxins and lower cholesterol.  Then getting a physical and the blood test showed higher cholesterol.  So the next year I had a bacon ultimate cheeseburger for breakfast, lunch and dinner for two weeks prior to the test.  This time cholesterol was lower, go figure!

Still though, I can't wait for the test.  I feel like I've his a wall, the levels are low and nothing is happening.  Of course this might be just what pellets feels like, no yo yo ing in blood concentrations that pills so.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 03, 2017, 03:25:58 PM
I'm not sure if this was for me or not,  I will be getting a test in about 3 weeks now, can't wait, but I will:)

Yeah it was for you sorry.  Are you getting both Total Testosterone and "Free Testosterone, Direct" blood tests?  Many docs don't do the Free Testosterone.  It's really one of the most important tests to be honest, even my electrologist told me this.  It matters what is biologically available.  Best time to do the test is in the AM as that is when testosterone is at its highest level.  I did the test before taking spiro, to see how high it got overnight -- I don't know what your doc told you to do with respect to taking the anti-androgen drug near the blood test.. fasting or not?

Once I get all my hormone drugs sorted out I am going to do another AM fasting Free Testosterone test to see how high my T actually gets.  Then follow it up the same day, with another Free Testosterone test like 4 hours (or so) after I take my spironolactone to see how much the spiro tablet improved the levels.

I just checked the paperwork.  It's for Total.  Honestly.  I think it's near zero anyway.  I'll do that take the test before taking Spiro though in the morning.  My thingie hasn't worked in months, and I like it:)

Quote from: JennJenn on October 06, 2017, 05:25:26 PM
Once I get all my hormone drugs sorted out I am going to do another AM fasting Free Testosterone test to see how high my T actually gets.  Then follow it up the same day, with another Free Testosterone test like 4 hours (or so) after I take my spironolactone to see how much the spiro tablet improved the levels.

My own personal experience is that spiro doesn't suppress testosterone production as much as it inhibits absorption. I still had high levels of testosterone on a relatively high dosage of spiro. Nevertheless, I still experienced the anti-androgenic effects.

All the best,
--AshleyP

If your total is out of range low, your free will be low enough not to worry about.  Your endocrinologist will tell you the same, although maybe not your electrologist.   ::)

Quote from: JennJenn on October 06, 2017, 05:25:26 PM
Yeah it was for you sorry.  Are you getting both Total Testosterone and "Free Testosterone, Direct" blood tests?  Many docs don't do the Free Testosterone.  It's really one of the most important tests to be honest, even my electrologist told me this.  It matters what is biologically available.  Best time to do the test is in the AM as that is when testosterone is at its highest level.  I did the test before taking spiro, to see how high it got overnight -- I don't know what your doc told you to do with respect to taking the anti-androgen drug near the blood test.. fasting or not?

Once I get all my hormone drugs sorted out I am going to do another AM fasting Free Testosterone test to see how high my T actually gets.  Then follow it up the same day, with another Free Testosterone test like 4 hours (or so) after I take my spironolactone to see how much the spiro tablet improved the levels.

On Spiro, measuring testosterone levels is meaningless because spiro blocks testosterone too so that some of what is measured doesn't even bind to receptors. The test cannot tell you how much is blocked. Same thing goes for cyproterone acetate and bicalutamide.

There was a study in men taking high doses of spiro and even though testosterone did NOT drop after a few months, there was breast growth in most and other signs of anti-androgenic activity, confirming spiro's blocking potential.

Quote from: KayXo on October 07, 2017, 10:24:29 AM
On Spiro, measuring testosterone levels is meaningless because spiro blocks testosterone too so that some of what is measured doesn't even bind to receptors. The test cannot tell you how much is blocked. Same thing goes for cyproterone acetate and bicalutamide.

There was a study in men taking high doses of spiro and even though testosterone did NOT drop after a few months, there was breast growth in most and other signs of anti-androgenic activity, confirming spiro's blocking potential.

When my Free Testosterone, Direct got over 4.2 (i.e. the normal range), when it was 5.6, I was getting new body hairs here and there and on face here and there.  I was on a significant daily dose of spiro as well.