Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I went to the store to get dog food and there was this guy in front of me with this little brat kid in the child seat of the cart. The kid was maybe 4-5 years old. This little boy was totally staring holes through me. I smiled at him but he just kept staring. I was totally wishing the line would hurry and this little monster points right at me and busts out with " you're a boy!!!"  He said it totally loud and it like echoed all over and people of course turned and looked. His dad turned around and looked at me and told the brat no I wasn't a boy and to knock it off.  The little brat did shut up but he kept staring holes through me till his dad wheeled him out. Talk about wanting to sink through the floor! No one said anything to me or even really even looked at me but it was totally awful! I can't imagine what that stupid kid saw to make him out me. I have makeup on and everything. Oh well,I was wondering when someone I didn't know from before transition would out me. I guess today was the day. I might have figured it would be some hateful kid. ......let me show you how much fun plastic dry cleaning bags can be little buddy.

Could have been nothing.

I remember this same thing happening to my sister once. Some kid told me once that I was asian because I have thing/permanently at half mast eyes.

If the father gave you a cursory glance and said no, then the kid might have been full of it for whatever reason.

My own kid did a similar thing once because he associated short hair = boy and said something to a cis-girl.

Oh Julia i'm so sorry that happened to you too.  While that may have been a hateful experience for you most children are obviously not yet equipped with an executive censor and will often say what they think or feel without shame or guilt.  I have experienced that a plenty and started a thread about how to respond.

Many parents have heard something like " i hate you mommy or daddy you are mean!"  Babies and children often do see gender in very stereotypical ways and will hopefully learn to appreciate the many different expressions of humanity around them. 

A family and village that is exposed to diverse thoughts and peoples and learns to celebrate them are goals we can work at together.  We can hope that little boy will learn that yes, people are so very interesting and different and fun to get to know rather than fearing the "others" all around us.

Julia, sorry that happened to you. I've had plenty of quizzical looks from children (which is fine), but I've not yet had the point and call-out. As others have said,  the child may have said that for any number of simple/flawed associations. X

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Children are the easiest to fool when it comes to imagination and magic, but the most difficult otherwise.  Sorry this happened Julia. You look cis to me and more than likely everybody else too.

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 04, 2017, 04:03:12 PM
Children are the easiest to fool when it comes to imagination and magic, but the most difficult otherwise.  Sorry this happened Julia. You look cis to me and more than likely everybody else too.

Aww thank you. Children have always been the worst for me.I totally don't like the little house apes! They always stare.  I've had kids ask me why I was all white, if I was a ghost, if I was a vampire and why I look like that. I had one little girl ask me if I was old. When I told her no, not yet she asked me did I have white hair then.  And I've scared more than one child with my natural eye color. When I would go anyplace with my mom she would tell me to leave my sunglasses on inside so I didn't scare anyone. But this is the first time a child has outed me.  I don't know why people want kids anyway. Dogs are much more lovable and they can't talk.

Children are more aware of gender because they are still in the process of discovery about it. You need to take a different attitude about children. The proper what to handle this after the boy made his remark is to reply "and you are a really cute little girl". Naturally he would instantly deny it but you would reply with "Oh yes you are".

As for what the child picked up on, I don't have a clue. I have never been call out but I am under no illusion that I ever was 100% passable. Somewhere around here there is a thread that's about 2 years old discussing this subject. In includes a number of original ways of dealing with this problem.

About 6 years ago, a little girl asked me, "are you a boy or a girl?" I responded with, "a very grown up girl". Then she continued to monkey around on a sapling, trying to snap it off. Dang it if she didn't remind me of a little boy!
Some kids definitely have a disconnect between their brains and their mouths. Quite frankly, I ain't too fond of the little brats. Now, the ones that behave respectfully are another story.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 04, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
  I don't know why people want kids anyway. Dogs are much more lovable and they can't talk.

I totally agree.  My Fanta doesn't judge me when I ask him if he's happy to see his mommy.  He thinks he can talk though.  I ask him questions and he does his best to answer.

Bari Jo

Fanta probably says the same thing about you!  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

Not kidding, I had the same thing happen to me once. I was at work and this old couple with their grandkid came in and he was tugging on his grandma's sleeve telling her, "Look, that boy is dressed like a girl." He must've said it like five times. I didn't have the courage to say anything at the time, though, because I just wanted to disappear at that moment.

I'm so sorry you went through that. Instances like that, especially with children, are so, so painful, because they have no filters whatsoever and will just blurt the first thought that comes to mind.

You're not alone, sister :/ it's hard, especially when you feel like you can pass so well, and then someone says something stupid like that.

Wow that can be really embarrassing and annoying. But oh well, kids don't know better. The good thing is that his dad immediately corrected him.

I wouldn't dwell on it. Kids says the darndest things. Lol.

I've had kids say things about the purple steaks in my hair. As two women and a small boy walked past me the mom says out loud "yes, some people do have crazy hair" I laughed out loud. I'm sure the kid wasn't being mean. 

Then another day I'm walking with my BFF (a cis woman) and some kid about 12 made a comment about me, saying to my friend "is that your sister?" My friend being a smart ass said "no, that's a boy!" The kid looked confused. Lol. I said to her "why are you confusing that young man?" Lol. It was funny. I really don't care, but the amusing part is I'm not even part time yet. I don't think I look like a woman at all. I'm just small, dress androgynously, paint my nails, and have long, bushy hair. Point being people see what they see.

One funny episode was when I was at the park with my daughter (she's 12). Some little girl about 5 was with her dad. She says "I want purple hair like that lady!" Dad: "I'm pretty sure that's a boy" girl: "no! It's a lady and I want purple hair!" Dad: "I really think... oh it doesn't matter. And yes, you can have purple hair."  Lol

I know this is opposite, but I'm amused since I do not look like a woman in person. In my avatar I have a lot of makeup on.

So I guess when kids aren't sure they guess based on I don't know what. I think I'm my case it's the long hair and nail polish, and maybe my size.

But I'd by horrified to attempt to walk out of the house in one of my dresses. I just can't pull it off yet. So I take any misidentification as a small victory, even though the kids are completely wrong about my sex. Lol. I mean on the inside they are right. But it doesn't matter. [emoji5]


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Quote from: Julia1996 on October 04, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
I don't know why people want kids anyway. Dogs are much more lovable and they can't talk.

And they don't need money for college or rent ;D

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 04, 2017, 09:43:37 PM


One funny episode was when I was at the park with my daughter (she's 12). Some little girl about 5 was with her dad. She says "I want purple hair like that lady!" Dad: "I'm pretty sure that's a boy" girl: "no! It's a lady and I want purple hair!" Dad: "I really think... oh it doesn't matter. And yes, you can have purple hair."  Lol

Oh my god that is adorable. I can picture the kid throwing a fit, "No!"

Makes me want to do dye streaks in my hair. I really like dark purples so I was thinking about doing something of the sort whenever it finally gets long.

Quote from: Tessa James on October 05, 2017, 12:11:32 PM
And they don't need money for college

... because they always get free ride scholarships on account of being adorable!

...

Okay, that was a dumb post even for me, I apologize.

Julia I love you, if I can say that, lol!!!! You seem so nice on here and brave with your transition. Kids seem to be more perceptive on gender than adults. I know I have 5 boys of my own. We have gone a lot of places. Of course being kids they have no filter either. When we were in Mexico City we rode the subway. On the subway was two beautiful trans women. My kids of course were staring and they turn to me and my ex and say those are boys.............then you should have seen the stares from them at me and my ex. It was like I should go and die, hehehehehe. We had a talk about gender when we got off and told the boys not to say things like that out loud. they have done this several times at stores or where ever. So children are much more perceptive on this than adults or at least mention it when most adults won't. Kids will out you just not purposely. Now my kids and I will have another talk about gender only in relation to dad now, so touches home more, and I can make it more personal now. I guess what I am saying is kids are innocent and don't know better.

Julia, There's one part I loved best. Don't get me wrong, I like kids. But the plastic bag :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Everybody's all kumbiya and poor kid until it happens, then" let me show you...'    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I often get the "Are you a boy or a girl?" question from kids. Lots of kids in the neighborhood. Most of the time I just smile back with a mysterious face and leave it at that. Leave them with a feeling of doubt and confusion. Hehe

When I was bigger than I am now kids asked me if I am pregnant. I said "No, I'm fat." That also made them confused. Was I being ironic or not?

At least you didn't suffer the fate of the dear lady in my post office.

My close friend went with her 5 year old to the post office and she chirped up in front of all the customers to the woman behind the counter.
"Did you you use to be a man like Mummy's friend?"

Now that is how to ruin someones day!

(She is as far as I know a cisgender female)

One I remember from another thread.
Question: Are you a boy or a girl?
Answer: Yes

Kids are weird sometimes, and sometimes it works in your favor.

The other week I was out in the tattered remains of boy mode and a kid looked up at me, turned to his mom and asked "mommy is that a girl?"  his mom quickly apologized and I said "no, believe me it's OK."

That's the closest I've gotten to crying in public so far.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on October 11, 2017, 10:00:24 PM

That's the closest I've gotten to crying in public so far.

At the electroligist I needed to use the bathroom due to all the water I drink basically did the electrolysis.  There was a new girl working the desk, and she was giving me the men's room key.  I'm not presenting so it wasn't a big deal for me.   Immediately the person training her took the key back and said, pay attention she gets the ladies room key, don't you honey.  I got blubbery immediately.  It doesn't take much for the water works from me.

Quote from: Dena on October 06, 2017, 01:57:34 AM
One I remember from another thread.
Question: Are you a boy or a girl?
Answer: Yes

:D :D :D    really though, nobody will clock us faster than kids. And they usually reserve it for when you think you're really rockin' it!  Little darlings!!  ;)

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on October 11, 2017, 10:00:24 PM
Kids are weird sometimes, and sometimes it works in your favor.

The other week I was out in the tattered remains of boy mode and a kid looked up at me, turned to his mom and asked "mommy is that a girl?"  his mom quickly apologized and I said "no, believe me it's OK."

That's the closest I've gotten to crying in public so far.

I was in a supermarket express line once, and in my regular androgynous mode, and a guy said "excuse me miss..."

For what ever reason I look him in the eye and said: "do I look like a miss?" Lol

He was embarrassed. I don't know why I did that. But I enjoyed being mistaken for a lady. [emoji4]


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Quote from: RavenMoon on October 17, 2017, 11:52:03 AM
I was in a supermarket express line once, and in my regular androgynous mode, and a guy said "excuse me miss..."

For what ever reason I look him in the eye and said: "do I look like a miss?" Lol

He was embarrassed. I don't know why I did that. But I enjoyed being mistaken for a lady. [emoji4]


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L.O.L. ....You're a sadist, Raven!

An old thread, I know...

I just wanted to say this: First, Julia you look completely cis & beautiful & I'm sure you pass 100% so I can't imagine anyone thinking you were a boy either.

Second: I've been "recognized" by kids as cartoon characters (!!!) on more than one occasion so... just saying he was probably just staring at your eyes/hair maybe... And maybe he knew some cartoon character who had white hair and... Could be, really! I just can't imagine him thinking you were a boy. Kids make weird assumptions, you see... You might have made him think some anime character who was a boy or...? Honestly!

I'm sure you felt awful at that moment! But there are other explanations to why he might have thought you were a boy than just "outing" you as trans,  ;)!

Quote from: Cindy on October 06, 2017, 01:50:59 AM
At least you didn't suffer the fate of the dear lady in my post office.

My close friend went with her 5 year old to the post office and she chirped up in front of all the customers to the woman behind the counter.
"Did you you use to be a man like Mummy's friend?"

Now that is how to ruin someones day!

(She is as far as I know a cisgender female)

Oh, man I laughed so hard out loud on this  ;D!!! Made my day.

Quote from: Tessa James on October 05, 2017, 12:11:32 PM
And they don't need money for college or rent ;D

No. Just more expensive food than you eat. My dogs eat beef. I don't eat beef. Too expensive.

I got a "mommy boys can't have long hair!" From a little girl once. Her mom replied" they can if they want to"
I just giggled - she was probably just jealous of my fishtail braid. Deal with it punk I look fabulous and your twin tails can't compete.  >:-)

It is almost certain that the child did not really recognise that you were MAAB.   Your albinism would certainly have grabbed his attention more than your gender.  He was probably just trying to verbalise that you are different from anything that he had seen before, and chosen a word at random.   He may even have once heard someone saying something like "you're albino" and thought that he had heard "you're a boy". 

If he did think that you are a boy, it must have been because he had heard his parents talking about a transgender albino person.  The fact that his father corrected him doesn't necessarily prove otherwise.  Unfortunately, being both albino and transgender must have given you at least a small amount of fame in Denver.  Everyone who knew you from school probably mentioned the fact to at least one person who didn't know you.

You are a strikingly beautiful woman.  I thought the same of your old avatar, too.

You recently posted a topic about the possibility of having children.  This incident seems to have set those plans back a bit, LOL.  I agree that pets are much nicer than human children, though.

In my line of work, I've found it useful to have a kid strategy. Some of my responses:


(Early in transition) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm not very good at that question. Can you help me?

(Later) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm a girl. 

"Are you sure?"

Totally

(Now, sometimes, since girls ask this question 10:1 more than boys):

"You're a boy!" or "I think you're a boy!"

"Used to be, sweety.  It was no fun at all. Girls rock!"  (Fist bump)


The main thing is I don't let the parents shush their kids. I get right down on the floor with them and do my best to answer their questions.   I also don't get confrontational. Kids know boys and girls, but they don't understand that trans is a thing. I teach them that it is.

Quote from: rmaddy on December 06, 2017, 12:41:04 PM
In my line of work, I've found it useful to have a kid strategy. Some of my responses:


(Early in transition) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm not very good at that question. Can you help me?

(Later) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm a girl. 

"Are you sure?"

Totally

(Now, sometimes, since girls ask this question 10:1 more than boys):

"You're a boy!" or "I think you're a boy!"

"Used to be, sweety.  It was no fun at all. Girls rock!"  (Fist bump)


The main thing is I don't let the parents shush their kids. I get right down on the floor with them and do my best to answer their questions.   I also don't get confrontational. Kids know boys and girls, but they don't understand that trans is a thing. I teach them that it is.

Giving them a dry cleaning bag to play with is easier.  I'm joking of course. Lol. That was the first time I have ever been in that situation.  I'm used to kids staring at me for being albino but that was the first time a child ever questioned my gender. I was so shocked I didn't know what to say. I will say that as far as how kids react to my albinism is sometimes better than adults. Usually kids are just curious why I look this way. But after I explain it they don't have a problem with it. There was one time I had a little girl get scared of me and start crying. I didn't have my tinted contact lenses in and I was at at the grocery store. Florescent lights reflect off my eyes especially bad and it makes My eyes really glow. That's what scared her. The mother didn't say anything she just gave me a dirty look. Once when a little boy was staring at me his mother said "stop staring. It's rude to stare at deformed people". She said it quietly but I still totally heard her. I suppose it should have hurt my feelings but I actually found it funny. Deformed. Lol.  But since I started wearing tinted contacts kids and people don't stare as much as before. My natural eye color just freaks some people out. Though my boyfriend likes it and thinks it looks cool.

Purple Wolf and MaryT,  thank you. That's very sweet.

I guess my point was that while children are confused by gender variance, they are very open to your response. Think of it as a gift.

Quote from: Julia1996 on December 06, 2017, 01:49:56 PM
Once when a little boy was staring at me his mother said "stop staring. It's rude to stare at deformed people". She said it quietly but I still totally heard her. I suppose it should have hurt my feelings but I actually found it funny. Deformed. Lol. 

OMG I laughed at that one! Deformed??? That's just so out there  ;D!
Actually I never realized you were albino until I saw you mentioned it. I just have to say that I've always found your pic absolutely gorgeous! I think you look adorable & very beautiful in it. And I think your eyes look so FREAKIN' COOL!!! But really - I wouldn't have known you were albino if you hadn't said anything! I just always thought your eyes & hair and everything (in that pic) looks so damn cool!

So... again. I CAN'T imagine someone thinking you were AMAB... for real. I'm almost 99,99% sure that kid meant something else like I told ya.

Btw I think albinism in general is so cool! I just can't comprehend that some adults might find it weird or something bad... What's wrong with people?!

But don't you worry! That kid didn't see you as AMAB, I'm sure. And he was a young kid too... Even more reason to assume he found your hair or appearance or whatever fascinating & thought your were something out of this world, lol. Could've also been something you were wearing? In that age kids really see those cartoon characters everywhere... And witches & vampires & what else!

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 04, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
I went to the store to get dog food and there was this guy in front of me with this little brat kid in the child seat of the cart. The kid was maybe 4-5 years old. This little boy was totally staring holes through me. I smiled at him but he just kept staring. I was totally wishing the line would hurry and this little monster points right at me and busts out with " you're a boy!!!"  He said it totally loud and it like echoed all over and people of course turned and looked. His dad turned around and looked at me and told the brat no I wasn't a boy and to knock it off.  The little brat did shut up but he kept staring holes through me till his dad wheeled him out. Talk about wanting to sink through the floor! No one said anything to me or even really even looked at me but it was totally awful! I can't imagine what that stupid kid saw to make him out me. I have makeup on and everything. Oh well,I was wondering when someone I didn't know from before transition would out me. I guess today was the day. I might have figured it would be some hateful kid. ......let me show you how much fun plastic dry cleaning bags can be little buddy.

I had this happen once at a restaurant. I was with my girlfriend and this little boy in the booth across from us diagonally was standing on the cussioned seat peaking over the back of the booth staring at us.

Then I heard it;

'That boy has a ponytail..! Boys dont wear ponytails..!'

I didnt respond, I didnt turn around I just ignore. Mum just tells the kid to sit down and eat.

First and only time that happenened. My other experience was with my brothers niece. My niece introduced me to her and her only response is 'SHE IS SCARY..!' and hid from me immediately. (How I choose to dress and my piercings.) By the end of the night she was smiling and giggling and everything was good. For the most part I'm finding more and more children arent being brought up with the same rigid gender expectations I was and the generations before. They still say the damndest things though.

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I will so steal these responses... they are awesome. Especially the last one...

Quote from: rmaddy on December 06, 2017, 12:41:04 PM
In my line of work, I've found it useful to have a kid strategy. Some of my responses:


(Early in transition) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm not very good at that question. Can you help me?

(Later) "Are you a boy or a girl?"

I'm a girl. 

"Are you sure?"

Totally

(Now, sometimes, since girls ask this question 10:1 more than boys):

"You're a boy!" or "I think you're a boy!"

"Used to be, sweety.  It was no fun at all. Girls rock!"  (Fist bump)


The main thing is I don't let the parents shush their kids. I get right down on the floor with them and do my best to answer their questions.   I also don't get confrontational. Kids know boys and girls, but they don't understand that trans is a thing. I teach them that it is.

Sitting at a coffee shop one morning having a bagel and coffee this little boy kept talking to his father and pointing at me. They were 2 tiny tables over and I couldn't hear what was being said. When he first said something and pointed the father looked up and then went right back to his paper. I was crushed, at that point I thought that I was passable and more than that I thought that I looked okay that day. Hair good, 20 minutes putting things on and taking them off until I found the perfect outfit, and this mini person just blew away my good mood with his pointing and talking. I felt like crying, completely miserable by the time they got up and left. Then the older lady that was between us leaned over so I could hear her and said, "He is right, that dragon fly is beautiful." It took me a second to realize that she was talking about a dragonfly pendant thingy that I was wearing. Four inch wing span, tiny sapphires, rubys, diamonds and emeralds in the wings and ruby eyes, it is beautiful. My boyfriend won't tell me how much it cost him but I bet it was a lot, I love it. Truthfully if all the stones were fake I would still love it. I was so upset, ready to pelt the pest with my bagel and it was nothing. I thought about it a lot after.

Even if 100% passability was possible, there is always the possibility that someone might accidentally say sir not even meaning to. I have to try not to let it devastate me no matter how much it stinks. I don't want to feel that level of hurt inside anymore.

Sorry that you had to endure that. I am sure that you are over it by now, but I really hope that you know that you have nothing to worry about. I think I remember you saying that you had considered surgery, I personally hope that you don't. You are perfect the way that you are and with everything you have already endured, you are on the other side now. Enjoy your life. 😁

A few years back, a part of my cornea ruptured (accute hydrops) and I had to wear an eye patch.  Several kids thought I was a pirate!!!!

Better than " that's a man!"   ;D

Haha gotta love kids and their directness.
I wouldn't read too much into it though. I've heard hundreds of little kids say all kinds of things that are wrong all he time as they are still learning.
You look female to me Julia :)

   I was walking through walmart the other day and was passing by a child, maybe 10-12 years old.. and I heard his mother ask her husband "Would you like it if I cut my hair like hers?" and motioned toward me. The boy spurted out "Mom! That's not a girl! That's a boy!"
   It happens. And I get it. Kids are going to say what they say and with the way parents are these days, their children have no tact. But geez.. I thought I had my lungs crushed for about the next 30 seconds.. I had to evade sight for a minute into an empty isle and wonder if my grand disguise of the day had failed lol!

Some kids just point and say things because they are spoiled brats. I was called a girl on the city bus by a child while on my way to and once and I was dressed as a male my assigned birth. Short hair razor stubble and all. It didn't bother me maybe because I was half intoxicated still hiding who I am but I smiled. 👉💝👈

My therapist reminded me recently that kids under eight or so actually think about if someone is a boy or girl and there are about 100 facets that can point one way or the other. Hit 70 and you'll always be identified as a female. Hit fewer and not as much. But adults don't think, they just go off one or two or three cues before deciding, like hair, dress, facial features, breasts, posture, etc. I want to learn more about these hundred cues.

Most times I find the kid isn't sure and defaults to identifying people as male, which kinda makes sense in our patriarchal society.