Susan's Place Transgender Resources

In response to a question l asked on another thread about "pushing the envelope ", it was suggested by the OPEN  that l start a separate theard. So here it is, together with my question.
"As an old school dinosaur, l am really struggling to understand what the ultimate goal is here. What are you all struggling towards?  Is it womanhood?  Something else? In Oregon they now have a legally recognized third gender. Is that the goal? Neither male nor female but  "other" ?

So there it is. What is the ultimate goal? I understand it is different for everyone, but surely there must be some limgenerality other than l "just want to be me". Heck, the whole world just  wants what they want.

For me the goal is neither, and both. Other works for me.

Hugs, Devlyn

My goal is to be able to live without wanting continually to be dead.

Maybe I don't understand the question, but it seems you answered it yourself: everyone is different. Personally, my goal is a complete binary transition to female, as I perceive yours was. I would guess that the majority of members have something like that in mind, but all nuances are welcome here. The answers to your question will probably look like the results of a poll or a census...

Stephanie

 Why the hell is "I just want to be me" not good enough? I want to be free to live my life as I am without religious zealots condemning me and political bigots trying to dehumanize and legislate me out of existence. I want to be seen as a human being and not something to be exterminated by others with their own prejudices. I want the same rights and freedoms every human being on this earth should have. I want to be free to be myself and live my life in peace.

  I"m sorry if "I just want to be me" not good enough because it is EXACTLY what I want.

Happiness.

Had my surgery.
Retired at 45.
Have a great partner.
I have my health.

I'm a girl. I have always been one. Transition just makes that easier and eliminates bad stuff like depression. The transition is medical and social but the girl has always existed.

I'm trying to not feel defensive in this and answer non defensively.  Choosing to transition is not something any of us took lightly.  A LOT of thought, pain, therapy, and well the worst parts of life often contributed to that decision.  I can't speak for everyone, but transitioning for me was the only choice.  I wasn't suicidal, but starting to not be able to function anymore.  The goal of my transition is for the Disphoria to be gone, allowing me to be complete.  For me that means presenting and living my life as a female and having others perceive me as such.  This may not mean any surgery.  I will reserve the right to change my mind on that in the future.

I hope that answers your question.  I keep thinking this thread isn't just asking what our goal is, but also asking for us to justify it.  That gives me pain and pause.  I hope no ill feelings are implied and it's just my own internalized walls.

Bari Jo

Obviously, everyone's answer will be different.

Mine is that I want to be free to be myself, living a life that includes some happiness.  "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."  A worthwhile goal, is it not?

I'm like RobynD, I've always been a girl. Being raised boy created enormous problems, none of them easy to fix. Transition becomes release from prison for some of us, ME!!!

Quote from: Complete on October 06, 2017, 12:23:10 PM
In response to a question l asked on another thread about "pushing the envelope ", it was suggested by the OPEN  that l start a separate theard. So here it is, together with my question.
"As an old school dinosaur, l am really struggling to understand what the ultimate goal is here. What are you all struggling towards?  Is it womanhood?  Something else? In Oregon they now have a legally recognized third gender. Is that the goal? Neither male nor female but  "other" ?

So there it is. What is the ultimate goal? I understand it is different for everyone, but surely there must be some limgenerality other than l "just want to be me". Heck, the whole world just  wants what they want.

What is yours?

My ultimate goal is similar to that when I play RPGs.  To complete the main quest and as many side quests as I feel are worth it.
:eusa_dance:

My goal is to finally, for the first time in my life, be able to stop "psychologically holding my breath", as I like to put it.

The times I've felt the most happy, relaxed, elated, content, and secure, were when I tucked, dressed feminine, and had quiet time to myself to just be me.  I simply enjoyed existence; something I don't do as a cis male.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My goals are to be as passable as possible, to be accepted as a female without question and to one day have a husband. I don't want anything any other woman doesn't want.

This thread seems to have ruffled a few feathers along the way. I am not sure why. I take the question as seeking a specific answer. I think my answer is to be at peace with myself, to experience many of the things in my life that have been unavailable to me because I was not considered female. I want to interact with people as myself. I want to, for once in my life, feel sexy. I want to be comfortable with myself, not worry about transition any longer, but just live it. How's that for a goal.
Moni

I have no specific aim (am I wierd in that?). Most of my early journey was getting to a point that I could like and live with myself, and in many ways I'm there already.
GCS, being back in a loving relationship, passing better; these are all things I want but don't need.
I tend to view my gender transition just as one piece in my overall personal growth,  and in that, it won't end until I do.

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Quote from: Deborah on October 06, 2017, 12:32:16 PM
My goal is to be able to live without wanting continually to be dead.

That was the beginning for me, for the first year and a half at least. Eventually I was at a place that life was good enough that I really wanted to live.

The goal has slowly evolved since then. There was a time when I would have just answered - 'being a woman', I think at the time I was unintentionally naive. I started hrt 2 weeks after my 45th birthday, 2 years 11 months ago. I am a woman now true but as much as I would like to be I am not like every other nearly 48 year old women, not completely. The difference is negligible and with more time it will mostly disappear, mostly, but a small difference will always remain. I spent too long lying or living a lie, I just can't anymore. Not even to myself.  So now my goal is to be a woman to the highest degree that I can. I say that but it does actually get to the point where I and everyone else has a hard time telling the difference. If there was NO difference I would not be typing this right now.  :) 

My friends will still occasionally ask about my surgery. Also with the age of my friends menopause takes up more of their conversation than most, so sometimes they will ask me a related question and I have to just stare at them. No matter how many time it happens they are like, duh, but they will do it again. Other than that they hold me to the same standard as any other woman.

Now I have my surgery to look forward to and I still want to lose muscle. Ah, and fat.  >:(  Must never forget the fat. So my goal now is to get to the point that detransition is not going to happen, that I won't lose the gains that I have made. And live my life in a way, that for so long, I never thought was possible. Isn't that the way of it though, goals changing as we go?

Quote from: ainsley on October 06, 2017, 03:18:04 PM
My ultimate goal is similar to that when I play RPGs.  To complete the main quest and as many side quests as I feel are worth it.
:eusa_dance:

;D

Baldur's Gate an SoA  ;) :icon_archery: I can get Blackrazor, doesn't make me a bad person...  Does it?

First, not want to be dead.
Second, to find life is actually worth living
Third, become invisible to all the haters in the world.
Forth, be living life free for so long that happiness sets in
Fifth, to realize my true self is already living my own life

Lastly (in honor of RPGs) I wish to be the ruler of the world of Xeen. You may all address me as Lady Xeen, Lord and Ruler  :D
That might have just shown my age. Lol

Largely what Moni said. My goal for 18 years was to progressively become more healthy, which for me meant learning to be more feminine emotionally, let go of the male privilege I carry and to relate to others more stereotypically the way women tend to. Of course the catch-22 is I don't want to be a stereotype, hence remembering that the real goal is just to be more healthy.

I think my mannerisms have become progressively more femme with time - or the the extent that that was always my inclination, to simply allow myself to be so.

Over my lunch today there were a pair of younger women chatting and I was aware that many of the ways they spoke to each other were characteristically female in ways that I'm not given to and also that I don't aspire to. For instance one mishandled her fork and a bit of food fell onto her cheek. She and her friend both exclaimed at her small faux pas, sharing the humor of minor embarrassment that was just between them, not in front of people who'd judge them.

Two men wouldn't have paid that any attention, or perhaps one would have called the other stupid or clumsy in jest. They wouldn't have giggled.

Now to be sure, I know I could emulate those women, and that if I were intent on passing as female that could be an important set of social skills to learn just as I emulated men socially for many years to not get picked on, to get along, to pass, the thing is I don't especially *want* either social role. Most of the passing MTF women I know have learned these signals. I take on the ones that matter to me - not talking over others, listening well, putting community and the welfare of others on a par with my own, nurturing friends and even sometimes those who are antagonistic to me. Again, my first goal is healthy, feminine is just the direction I tend to lean.

So I enjoyed hearing these women, taking note of how they interacted, a little bit of me wishing that that was me.

But then I also wish I were a size 4 and cute. That's not gonna happen in this lifetime, maybe in a reincarnation. I hope my future self can remember how much the me of today wanted what she has. I also hope she's a substantial woman. There's nothing wrong with blending in, and I don't even know how to say it right but I hope she's more concerned with the essence of things than the surface.

I make a pretty OK looking guy and I have had to let go of that as well as not having a "landing place" of being a classically pretty female. On the other hand at every turn where I've chosen the more substantive path, over its option the results have been a happier, richer life. Of course I also have to remember from Der Steppenwolf that the ephemeral beauty has it's own value.

And I remember that being passable, being pretty aren't panaceas to the problems of this life. Pretty women are most certainly discounted, most learn how to parlay those things to advantage, just as men parlay their strengths into tangible benefit.

For me the ultimate goal is to fully transition and live my life as Amy. Until that point, I'm happy with transitioning in stealth and living as my male self on the outside for work / family reasons but enjoying being Amy in my own time with my friends and those that know Amy, transitioning to the point i'm ready to shed my male self. ( obviously will be a point that my body is so female I cannot hide it anymore but I expect to have a few years yet).

Amy xx

Just FYI, this is the "Male to female transsexual" subforum.  A transsexual is a particular subset of transgender, and there is almost always a very specific set of goals when a transsexual transitions.

You know what, I just noticed that myself. I apologize if my earlier comment clouds the matter. I usually pay attention to where I'm posting, and while this question will certainly have a multitude of answers across our community, I agree that the goal will narrow among the transsexual subset.

Hugs, Devlyn

While i do mostly (i think) understand how a transexual is a subset of being transgender. I'm not sure I entirely understand all of the differences. I understand the difference is intervention to align the physiology, but by that definition does it mean every transgender person that does HRT is a transexual?  The Wiki mentions that there is some disagreement on the term. Is transition of a transgender person for alignment purposes all medical? Because there are whole other things like social, names, speech etc.

It would seem both categories of folks would have specific, varying and overlapping goals.

Quote from: Nina on October 06, 2017, 01:05:23 PM
Happiness.

Simple as THIS ^

WOW! What a cornucopia of great responses. Thank you all so much. What l appreciate the most is the utter candour and sincerity of so many of the responses. What stands out to me is happiness and the ability to feel normal within our own skin.
I also noticed something which had not be so apparent to me and that is that our goals evolve. Just I like someone pointed out above initially, my goal was just to stay on this side of the grass. In my case my prospects were not good. Once l saw a glimmer of hope my next goal was to get things together so that l could transform my body to match up with what was in my head. Once that was resolved, my next goal was to put my life back together starting essentially from scratch. Of course there was that small matter of maintaining the health and happiness of my newly reconfigured genitals but frankly, that really was not much of a problem considering the number of hot young men in this world.
So now, nearly 50 years down the road since my sex change operation, my goal is to help those who are willing to accept my help. Again,  thank you all for your honest and heart felt responses.

Quote from: Deborah on October 06, 2017, 12:32:16 PM
My goal is to be able to live without wanting continually to be dead.

This is me, I am afraid. Many times throughout my life I wished I just never existed. Just be non-existent. That's depressing. But it's what I have been since I was very young (I grew up in a house of insanity and hopelessness). But my sudden death would crush so many people. So there's that.

Changing my body through HRT seems to be a good distraction and keeps me somewhat satisfied with my life's direction, in spite of the fact that I will always be closeted. I should have been female at birth. But I can survive life if I can have a small bit of what I secretly desire. I don't want to grow old. I have seen so many in my family die a bit every day through old-age disease and hardship. It seems so often in my life that the more I hate something the more I get of it. If I love something, it runs away and hides. So my "ultimate goal" is to simply survive with at least a tiny bit of joy here and there and also just hope I can pass from this life before too much hopelessness overwhelms me...

My goal is to live the rest of my life as I wish, without the dysphoria of feeling that I should be female. Today I am. I am happy and content with my life. Thank you.  :angel:

Quote from: HappyMoni on October 06, 2017, 03:52:37 PM
This thread seems to have ruffled a few feathers along the way. I am not sure why. I take the question as seeking a specific answer. I think my answer is to be at peace with myself, to experience many of the things in my life that have been unavailable to me because I was not considered female. I want to interact with people as myself. I want to, for once in my life, feel sexy. I want to be comfortable with myself, not worry about transition any longer, but just live it. How's that for a goal.
Moni

Moni, I think you might be one of those "wise women" that seem to turn up in folklore.  I value your posts. 

To answer the question (or try, anyway)- I want to be comfortable with my body.  I can present myself as woman to everyone else by dressing the part, but once that exterior's gone I'm still male.  The hrt has helped (especially by thinning that awful hair that resulted when my body turned on me at 14).  The top surgery has helped a lot more.  But those particularly male bits are still there and have to go.  Once they're gone I'll be for sure who I've always known I am- physically as well as psychologically and spiritually.

Hope this helps,
Shannon

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 06, 2017, 03:51:08 PM
. . . to be as passable as possible, to be accepted as a female

That was the big question in Erin's 'group' one day . . . .

What's more important: 'Passing' or 'Acceptence'?? In terms of trans'ness if choosing one meant to the exclusion of the other? ( ie: pass perfectly but nobody knows and risk 'discovery' /OR/ be accepted wholeheartedly by all but not able to stealth at all )

Obviously having both would be ideal Julia and yet both are, for most part, out of our individual control.

Quote from: Kiera on October 07, 2017, 01:39:52 PM
That was the big question in Erin's 'group' one day . . . .

What's more important: 'Passing' or 'Acceptence'?? In terms of trans'ness if choosing one meant to the exclusion of the other? ( ie: pass perfectly but nobody knows and risk 'discovery' /OR/ be accepted wholeheartedly by all but not able to stealth at all )

Obviously having both would be ideal Julia and yet both are, for most part, out of our individual control.

If we are talking only about social interactions, I would vote for acceptance.  I really don't care if other people know or guess my background, as long as they are nice to me.  On the other hand being stealth would feel to me like being back in the closet, even if I was accepted as a result, so it would make me miserable.

Of course, dysphoria is not just about social interactions.  Now that I am dealing with the elephants in my room, social and presentation dysphoria, I can see that I still have some body dysphoria left.  It wasn't strong enough to make itself strongly felt before, but now I feel it.  So I'm not done yet.

In general probably to get to a point where you don't have dysphoria physically, mentally or socially.

I have a binary female gender identity and my goal was to have female sex characteristics and get rid of the male ones, as much as medically possible, and be seen female without a question.

My goal is to walk outside of my house and have people look at me and see me as I feel that I should be. I've lived far too long not understanding why I don't like seeing myself in pictures or why I cower in the background whenever possible, assuming I was not simply outright afraid of going anywhere to begin with. No matter the hardships of transition or what I will eventually look like, I will still be infinitely closer to how I feel I should look, and that alone is a huge comfort. The dissonance has held me back enough.

And while I think this isn't really a goal, but more of a hopefully byproduct, I also want to live a happy, fulfilled life. I want to fall in love and be loved in turn. I want to have relationships, good and bad. Maybe even get lucky enough to find someone to spend my life with. Mostly, I want to live.

As you can see from the answers, there are as many ultimate goals as trans people in the world. Some might want to look completely female and delete their past identity, while others are proud trans people and don't care about passing at all. Also, there are trans who have a binary identity, but you can also find people who identity as both genders, or maybe none, who don't like a "normal" cis woman appearance and prefer more androgynous looks and confuse people.

And all the greys in between.

In my case, I just want to be happy with myself. I want to wear the clothes I like be them male or female. I want to wear makeup sometimes. And paint my nails. I could mention thousand things, both female and male, that I like. I want to do them all without caring about gender stereotypes.

I am very female binary. I spent many years in binary male mode, survived it but didn't always enjoy it. I know that changing presented identities will not fix all of life's issues but at this point in life I want to address those issues as a woman. I know that I can never be a cis woman but I hope not to be constantly seen as a transgender woman, I just want to live my life as the woman that I am.

Quote from: Kiera on October 07, 2017, 01:39:52 PM
What's more important: 'Passing' or 'Acceptence'?? In terms of trans'ness if choosing one meant to the exclusion of the other? ( ie: pass perfectly but nobody knows and risk 'discovery' /OR/ be accepted wholeheartedly by all but not able to stealth at all )

Questions like that might be philosophically interesting but bear little relationship to real life.

But to even start you would have define what acceptance means. Does it mean full acceptance as an infertile female human being with no if ands or buts, or does it mean just accepting that YOU believe you are one, being nice to you, and using the right pronouns...

Superfically and in the moment it might seem the 2 are not that different, but IMO in the long term they make a huge difference in the texture of ones life.

IMO in the real world the former is rare, and latter the best one usually gets when people know.

The ideal for most would be the former, but realistically one does not get that in society without a high degree of stealth... but not everyone can get there and not everyone who could, can live with the pressure of that, or be able to bring themselves to sacrifice others as it sometimes takes,  no matter what they want for themselves.

While its not fair, practically speaking life for many of us has to be a tradeoff...

How we live depends on what we can achieve, what we can live with, what we value most and how much of a risk taker one is.  As such, it is a very individual thing.

- Karen

Quote from: Karen_A on October 07, 2017, 08:00:05 PM
Questions like that might be philosophically interesting but bear little relationship to real life.

But to even start you would have define what acceptance means. Does it full acceptance as an infertile female human being with no if ands or buts, or does it mean just accepting that YOU believe you are one, being nice to you and using the right pronouns...

Superfically and in the moment it might seem the 2 are not that different, but IMO in the long term they make a huge difference in the texture of one life.

IMO in the real world the former is rare, and latter the best one usually gets when people know.

The ideal for most would be the former but realistically one does get that in society without a high degree of stealth... but not everyone can get there and not everyone who could, can live with the pressure of that. or be able to bring themselves to sacrifice others as it sometimes takes,  no matter what they want for themselves.

While its not fair, practically speaking life for many of us life has to be a tradeoff...

How we live depends on what we can achieve, what we can live with, what we value most and how much of a risk taker one is.  As such it is a very individual thing.

- Karen

WOW! Again.  Thank you Karen. That was so well put.

I used to think happiness was the target, but it seems that we have innate aptitude for happiness, and I tend toward the melancholic in general.  I'd say "coherence".  The fact that my life has gotten more coherent as I progress is the best evidence, to me, that I'm walking in the right direction.

Quote from: Complete on October 07, 2017, 10:38:00 PM
WOW! Again.  Thank you Karen. That was so well put.

Thanks, but I am just speaking from my own experience and what I have seen and heard over the years.

(I transitioned 20 years ago and had SRS 19 years ago)

- Karen

     I could think of all kinds of answers to this question because I understand that it was presented honestly, but it sort of hints a bit at pre supposing that fully operating by the binary playbook and getting full acceptance into the world of the cis female is all of our nirvana.  I suppose it may be, but I have to take this journey one day at a time and my goal for today isn't the same as the one I had yesterday.  Two years ago I was excited to just meet my female side that I had to abandon at age 11.  A year ago, after a year on hormones, I was warmed by noticing body changes toward the female I had felt re enter my life.  Six months ago I was struggling with fully accepting this and coming out to my wife and my goal was to keep both my spirits and the love of my life.  Yesterday I went shopping with my wife, dressed and looking pretty femme with painted nails and very noticeable boobs and had my ears pierced at Claires and bought some cosmetics at Sephora and each time I asked for assistance, the girls didn't bat an eye and were friendly and we talked without pretense about what I wanted.  Sure money was involved, but I could tell they really didn't have a problem with me at all.  I can easily tell when I get bad vibes and are not particularly welcome some places (mostly older women).  Yesterday I was accepted for who I was and THAT was my goal for yesterday.  I can see that each little good day moves me closer to my femme side, that's becoming apparent.  But I'm really just after being able to dress and shop and interact with people without them wondering which box I fit in.  I want them to not care because I have two spirits both alive and well in me and will probably never fit a binary.  But that's how I feel today, tomorrow is likely to be different.  Toni

My goal is to be prettier than 90% of cisgender woman population.. A real human barbie doll so no one ever ask if i am/did transition but think i am cis that did a bunch of surgeries. Fixing all flaws through surgeries its real addiction. Ultimate goal would be being pregnant but i dont think that will be possible anytime soon.

Almost 20 years ago, I transitioned to stave off my gender dysphoria -- and to do that, I had to embrace my womanhood, full stop.  Which took understanding both my interior identity (female) and what it would take to have this recognized socially.  So, an inside and an outside dimension. 

Getting the outside to match the inside takes understanding the inside.  Completed says we need to know where we're going, and I agree.  But how do we know what's really on the inside, when so much of the inside is actually closed off to the conscious mind, or only becomes revealed in bits and pieces?  For me, it was a matter of feeling my way through the process of transition.  The support groups, therapy, hormones, hair removal, dress and makeup, and especially voice training, all oriented towards one thing: eliciting female gendering, from myself and others.  Which made me incredibly happy (and still does). 

Understanding that, it was very easy for me to pick the rest of the path -- the various surgeries, and then practicing non-disclosure, maintaining a closed narrative, which I still do to this day, all while learning what I missed out on growing up.  That's what worked for me.  And now, more often than not I've forgotten all that, unless I pop into places like this... when I'm feeling nostalgic. 

Nostalgia can be a terrible thing.  The past is gone, and isn't coming back.

Peace of mind, happiness. Whatever that means.

Being able to be myself without constantly thinking about my gender.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on October 09, 2017, 07:32:48 PM

Being able to be myself without constantly thinking about my gender.

Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

I don't know if transition is for me. But I just want to be myself. In my case this is all about myself. I take others into consideration of course. But at the end of the day it is just about what I prefer. Otherwise just do all the regular stuff everyone else is doing. It is just an alternative which I consider.

To look on the outside how I felt inside.

So.. that is getting the physical female characteristics such as breasts, Fat distribution, more feminine skin and a vagina 

from a social side, to be accepted as woman by other women.. to be one of the girls.

I think I have achieved all my goals, I have a close circle of female friends and I managed to land a man. Physically I have all the female characteristics, I wanted.

Quote from: noleen111 on October 13, 2017, 08:13:39 AM

I think I have achieved all my goals, I have a close circle of female friends and I managed to land a man.

The mental image of a big fish flopping next to you on the dock and you clapping a net over it before it manages to flop back into the water is, unfortunately, unavoidable.   ;D

Quote from: Legit on October 09, 2017, 10:27:19 AM
My goal is to be prettier than 90% of cisgender woman population.. A real human barbie doll so no one ever ask if i am/did transition but think i am cis that did a bunch of surgeries. Fixing all flaws through surgeries its real addiction. Ultimate goal would be being pregnant but i dont think that will be possible anytime soon.

I think you already passed the prettier than 90% cis mark. I notice you don't use your picture since commingled back. Is being recognized in the real world a concern of yours? I've wondered about how I might feel about that someday.

Quote from: josie76 on October 14, 2017, 08:00:22 AM
.....I notice you don't use your picture since commingled back. Is being recognized in the real world a concern of yours? I've wondered about how I might feel about that someday.

Hmmm....Yes. That 'someday' is something anyone who is planning on blending in and having anything resembling a normal life should think about at some length before posting their image on a public forum such as this one. Doing so immediately labels you as "other".

Quote from: Complete on October 14, 2017, 10:20:11 AM
Hmmm....Yes. That 'someday' is something anyone who is planning on blending in and having anything resembling a normal life should think about at some length before posting their image on a public forum such as this one. Doing so immediately labels you as "other".

I had thought once or twice about it. On the other hand, I'm public ally Facebook friends with a number of very vocal trans rights activists in my local metro area. They are also all members of my support group. I feel very strong wants to be openly trans and be vocal. It's also hard for me because I have a long history in the agriculture sector as it has been my income and my life in so many ways. The chance of being trans and still finding work there is pretty low. I'm sort of in the process of mostly walking away from it.

Simply feeling right, re-integrating back into society, and getting on with the rest of my life!