Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Mornin',

I thought it was time I started a less self-serving thread. I was debating whether or not to post this on the transgender board, but I think it would better apply to those starting medical transition. For everyone, really.

(I'm pretty blunt, so I apologize in advance.)

Anyway, I was described as bear-like the other day thanks to my overprotective nature. Which, frankly, was a huge compliment. People who knew me prior to transition are concerned I'm detransitioning since I've a adopted a lot of masculine mannerisms, but this is quite contrary. The boy I was is a delicate dandelion, the woman I've become is tough and dependable. It's not regression, but progress.

Does anyone have any mannerisms which defy what's typically expected of you? How does your ability to pass factor into this? How do other people react to your potentially androgynous nature?

I have a lot of feminine vocal mannerisms, and it probably does affect my ability to pass.  Some of them I'd like to ditch--for example, when I say "thank you" to a stranger for doing something nice it really doesn't need to come out as a chirp.  Others I intend to keep--such as the stereotypically feminine tendency to make encouraging noises and short comments when someone else is talking: "Really!  Wow!  He didn't?!  You don't say!"  It encourages the other person to keep talking, and helps build relationships.  I suppose that even when I pass visually, chatting like a woman may get me labelled as a feminine guy, but I don't really care.  I value my ability to communicate and make friends.

There's nothing wrong with being an active listener. Ha ha. But it's one of those things that makes you you. And a very commendable trait, I might add.

This is a great thread! Love it!!! Never thought much on my mannerisms, I tend to emulate the other women at work. My co-workers are a large variety women so I am learning mannerisms from them. My mother offered to show me things, which would have been fine when I was younger. She can barely operate her smartphone. So my mom is slightly behind times on things. Digressing some, but mannerisms I would say you can have bearish mannerisms and still be considered feminine in all aspects. To be slightly masculine in some way or respect for me doesn't make you non-passable or passable. As for my mannerism that give me away, I can't think of any. My passability is mainly my physique in my chest I am very barrel chested and can't help that much. Good thought on the mannerisms though.

Quote from: Tommygun on October 22, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
There's nothing wrong with being an active listener. Ha ha. But it's one of those things that makes you you. And a very commendable trait, I might add.

Aww, that's sweet of you.  I'm pre-T and don't pass well, and when I hear that people like me can pass if only they own their masculinity enough, I feel sort of bad.  It's like I'm not trying hard enough or something.  Thanks for acknowledging that guys can still be guys even if they have some feminine-seeming traits.

My mannerisms, no. But I've been told by my brother and my dad that my sense of humor is more on the masculine side though my boyfriend loves it.  I love watching World's dumbest. People falling, guys smashing their oysters and people doing a face plant are totally hilarious to me. I don't think it's necessarily masculine to find that stuff so funny but if so I don't really care. I'm not going to act like I don't find it funny no matter what anyone thinks. Trans people are too obsessed with "proper" female/male behavior. There are a lot of behaviors that are important for passing but when it's to the extent that you worry about everything you say and do, that's just as bad as the prison we were in before transition.

It isn't what you do or don't do that will get you clocked when it comes to social expectations.  Rather, it's understanding that you know (and accept) what the social consequences are for your choices.

Most women I know break about 20% of normative social conventions, and conform to about 80%. 

Thank you all, and that's the point I was trying to make, Julia. Most people don't worry about how these actions or mannerisms make them look, so why should we? If some trait is inherent to you, and you like that trait, why should you try to bury or hide it? I do think it is a problem when the community pushes stereotypical behaviors on people who are just doing their own thing. Spot on about it being another prison.

That's right, Jailyn. And thanks! I've only found my occasionally macho mannerisms help me pass, because I'm not trying to be a caricature of someone else. Not that imitation is a bad thing. Emulating people we admire is also a very normal thing to do.

Ha ha. I'm sure you pass better than you think, Lemur. I think I understand what you mean about the feeling like you're not trying hard enough. There is this fixed image of what is or isn't a successful transition in people's minds. Never worry about that. In my opinion, being a boy who gets mistaken for a girl or vice versa is still passing. Lots of cis people get mistaken for the opposite gender. Never feel ashamed of it.

I have to admit, I've picked up some more masculine behaivors, such as when I drive, I put my wrist/hand on top of the steering wheel vs grasping it along the side like I've seen many women do, but for the most part, much of my mannerisms were already "male" to begin with.

I've  noticed that the style with men tucking in only the front of their t-shirts (as if to show off their belt buckles) into the front of their jeans is one I DO admit I've picked up.  Of course, my current belt buckle is a pokeball, so its all good! [emoji16]

Ryuichi

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Quote from: Julia1996 on October 23, 2017, 09:13:26 AM
My mannerisms, no. But I've been told by my brother and my dad that my sense of humor is more on the masculine side though my boyfriend loves it.  I love watching World's dumbest. People falling, guys smashing their oysters and people doing a face plant are totally hilarious to me. I don't think it's necessarily masculine to find that stuff so funny but if so I don't really care. I'm not going to act like I don't find it funny no matter what anyone thinks. Trans people are too obsessed with "proper" female/male behavior. There are a lot of behaviors that are important for passing but when it's to the extent that you worry about everything you say and do, that's just as bad as the prison we were in before transition.

My sister (who I've mentioned before is extremely super feminine) laughed at someone the other day when a huge walnut fell out of a tree and hit them in the head. Then she laughed again when a girl wasn't paying attention and walked straight into a tree. (A different tree I assume.) The sad part is the other girls turned on her for it! Because, you know, it's not "proper behavior"...

After having watched ungodly amounts of stand up, sketch shows, and offbeat weird indie comedies, I strongly believe that women and men's sense of humor is not different at all, but rather it is one of those things women have been taught to suppress for the sake of social conventions. Which is not to say there aren't some differences, though I believe they are mostly mechanical in nature (ie: men don't understand vagina jokes). There does seem to be a weird skew when it comes to female comics being LGBT, which may play into breaking those social conventions in one way translating into breaking them in other ways. (Tig Notaro and Kate McKinnon are the greatest.)

Quote from: Roll on October 28, 2017, 01:01:04 AM
My sister (who I've mentioned before is extremely super feminine) laughed at someone the other day when a huge walnut fell out of a tree and hit them in the head. Then she laughed again when a girl wasn't paying attention and walked straight into a tree. (A different tree I assume.) The sad part is the other girls turned on her for it! Because, you know, it's not "proper behavior"...

After having watched ungodly amounts of stand up, sketch shows, and offbeat weird indie comedies, I strongly believe that women and men's sense of humor is not different at all, but rather it is one of those things women have been taught to suppress for the sake of social conventions. Which is not to say there aren't some differences, though I believe they are mostly mechanical in nature (ie: men don't understand vagina jokes). There does seem to be a weird skew when it comes to female comics being LGBT, which may play into breaking those social conventions in one way translating into breaking them in other ways. (Tig Notaro and Kate McKinnon are the greatest.)

Oh yeah, I've had other women do that to me. Once I was in a car with 3 other girls and we stopped at the cross walk. It was really windy and this woman was crossing in front of us and her wig blew off her head and she went chasing it and it went under a parked car. I just died! I was laughing so hard I couldn't even talk. Not only did the other girls not laugh, they started asking me what was wrong with me. All of them found it really sad. One of them told me I was cruel when I said it was the woman's own fault for not pinning it better. Geeze its not like I snatched it off her head or anything.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.getthefive.com%2Fcache%2Fuploads%2Farticle_images%2Fgesture_toppick_crop.jpg&hash=696ce52cd3f616cb323cc64bf165c9787a984894)

Quote from: Roll on October 28, 2017, 01:01:04 AM
My sister (who I've mentioned before is extremely super feminine) laughed at someone the other day when a huge walnut fell out of a tree and hit them in the head. Then she laughed again when a girl wasn't paying attention and walked straight into a tree. (A different tree I assume.) The sad part is the other girls turned on her for it! Because, you know, it's not "proper behavior"...

Neither of those things seem so serious, so it's a little sad that we can't laugh when silly things happen to people. Everyone in my family has a somewhat 'masculine' sense of humor, and nothing's off the table until religion or politics come up. I guess I have a kind of cynical sense of humor, and laughter is often how I process difficult situations too. Sometimes it seems like I'm laughing at someone's expense, but in reality it's more like I find the situation itself a bit absurd and not worth the worry. Mostly because those things happen to everyone.

Wow, I didn't expect this to survive. Awesome.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 23, 2017, 09:13:26 AM
My mannerisms, no. But I've been told by my brother and my dad that my sense of humor is more on the masculine side though my boyfriend loves it.  I love watching World's dumbest. People falling, guys smashing their oysters and people doing a face plant are totally hilarious to me. I don't think it's necessarily masculine to find that stuff so funny but if so I don't really care. I'm not going to act like I don't find it funny no matter what anyone thinks. Trans people are too obsessed with "proper" female/male behavior. There are a lot of behaviors that are important for passing but when it's to the extent that you worry about everything you say and do, that's just as bad as the prison we were in before transition.

You sure your not Australian? Because phrasing it as "guys smashing their oysters" is about as ozzy as flannos and thongs [emoji38]

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Quote from: LadyGreen on October 30, 2017, 05:55:03 AM
You sure your not Australian? Because phrasing it as "guys smashing their oysters" is about as ozzy as flannos and thongs [emoji38]

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Lol, no I'm not Australian.  But my boyfriend is and evidently I'm picking up some of his Aussie slang without realizing it. As long as I don't start calling French fries "chips" and potato chips "crisps" I'll be fine.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 30, 2017, 06:02:59 AM
Lol, no I'm not Australian.  But my boyfriend is and evidently I'm picking up some of his Aussie slang without realizing it. As long as I don't start calling French fries "chips" and potato chips "crisps" I'll be fine.

My Australian friend seems to do the same thing, picking up "Americanisms". She's weirding out her family. Ha ha.

I don't know about my mannerisms... they seem to be pretty masculine/gender neutral, I think...

But my appearance is somewhat androgynous, so  ;)! But I've passed as a man with long hair & make-up on, so I'd like to claim your confidence & body language & you being natural & believing in yourself plays a big part!

Generally, though, having an androgynous appearance of course doesn't help with passing... But that's my style, so,  >:-)! But if your personality/core-femininity or masculinity shines through... even clothing choices don't play such a big part!

And voice! I'm lucky to have a pretty masculine voice... so that helps too.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 30, 2017, 06:02:59 AM
Lol, no I'm not Australian.  But my boyfriend is and evidently I'm picking up some of his Aussie slang without realizing it. As long as I don't start calling French fries "chips" and potato chips "crisps" I'll be fine.

That would be Pommy, not Aussie.. They are all chips here.

Quote from: kelly_aus on November 19, 2017, 02:02:59 PM
That would be Pommy, not Aussie.. They are all chips here.

What is "Pommy?"

Ryuichi

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The fact is that anyone who goes "full tilt conventional female" would be breaking what it is to be any kind of liberated female, which is what most women either are or essentially aspire to be. You have to look at more than just mannerisms and stereotypes - understanding people's points of view is a big part of transition that will make or break you.

The advantage is you get to choose which you nurture as a part of your identity, and which things you just don't want to keep around. Unless you live in a really rural area, women who defy conventions are increasingly common.

I have mannerisms that out me but I find policing my behavior oppressive

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 21, 2017, 12:26:28 PM
What is "Pommy?"

Ryuichi

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Pom or pommy is Australian slang for people from the UK

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Quote from: LadyGreen on November 21, 2017, 05:26:57 PM
Pom or pommy is Australian slang for people from the UK

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OH, okay!  Thanks!

Ryuichi

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Quote from: Julia1996 on October 23, 2017, 09:13:26 AM
My mannerisms, no. But I've been told by my brother and my dad that my sense of humor is more on the masculine side though my boyfriend loves it.  I love watching World's dumbest. People falling, guys smashing their oysters and people doing a face plant are totally hilarious to me. I don't think it's necessarily masculine to find that stuff so funny but if so I don't really care. I'm not going to act like I don't find it funny no matter what anyone thinks. Trans people are too obsessed with "proper" female/male behavior. There are a lot of behaviors that are important for passing but when it's to the extent that you worry about everything you say and do, that's just as bad as the prison we were in before transition.

That's just total dumb stereotype territory. Plenty of women are into slapstick humor (Three Stooges, Jackass). And plenty of men can't stand it. I think liking that kind of humor can be a bit of an age thing, too, as a lot of people age out of it. But of course ... proper ladies would never laugh at a pratfall. (This makes me think about how supposedly sophisticated people like mime acts, and mime acts are all about physical humor, but you see it's sophisticated, because it's French.)

I work with customers who are strangers all day and I've had to work on my persona. I had a habit of talking in an overly feminine manner to create this hard shell and boundary between myself and the customer. "Just being myself" doesn't necessarily work in this environment so I've had to create a new, male persona to interact with customers. I smile and lot and I'm friendly. But I still struggle with voice pitch because it's natural to elevate your pitch when you're trying to placate somebody. The thing is, that persona was never really "me" and I don't act/talk like that at all when I'm relaxing off the job.

I got punished a lot for having too masculine a communication style (even by people who supposedly knew my identity). I guess I came from an environment where just being male was not okay. I'm not blaming feminism here--it's much more complex than that--but I do believe that maleness itself should not be made suspect.

I feel like I'm a fairly androgynous person who happens to be male. I sometimes dress more butch than I feel like because I'm afraid of what other people will think. I feel like if I can get my body to look more masculine then I can be a bit freer with clothing choices.

Quote from: Tommygun on October 22, 2017, 06:43:10 AM
Mornin',

I thought it was time I started a less self-serving thread. I was debating whether or not to post this on the transgender board, but I think it would better apply to those starting medical transition. For everyone, really.

(I'm pretty blunt, so I apologize in advance.)

Anyway, I was described as bear-like the other day thanks to my overprotective nature. Which, frankly, was a huge compliment. People who knew me prior to transition are concerned I'm detransitioning since I've a adopted a lot of masculine mannerisms, but this is quite contrary. The boy I was is a delicate dandelion, the woman I've become is tough and dependable. It's not regression, but progress.

Does anyone have any mannerisms which defy what's typically expected of you? How does your ability to pass factor into this? How do other people react to your potentially androgynous nature?

its so cool that you said that. My boy self was always afraid and soft. After almost 3 years on hormones I'm like a beast a total tomboy im one of thise anime girl that is so tough everybody is scared of. Like sakura from naruto.