Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone. I had an awful experience yesterday with 2 of my friends. I went shopping with 2 of my friends at the mall. I've known them both since before I transitioned.  They've both been totally supportive and helpful through all of it. I guess I should have known it wouldn't last. My one friend beth, has acted a little weird towards me the last couple of times we hung out. I figured she was being moody or whatever. So we stopped at the food court and we were sitting at a table. These 2 guys were leaving and when they passed our table one of them stopped and told me I was very pretty and that he loved my skin color. He told me he hoped I was having a good day. Beth said " my day is going good too. Thanks for asking"! After he left she was staring daggers at me. I asked her what was wrong and she just said it was nothing. Then we all started talking about other stuff. Then my other friend started talking about how expensive her car insurance was. I told her mine was too. Then Beth said " what would you know about it Julia?" I asked her what she meant and she just went off on me! She said " you don't pay for your car insurance Julia so what do you care how expensive it is? Your dad pays ALL your bills! You don't even pay your own phone bill! Don't even try to deny it. I've known you for years, your dad does everything for you but wipe your ass." I reminded her that I do work and she said I only work part time and that I don't have to do that if I don't want to. She said I was just a spoiled daddy's girl. Then she said " well, daddy's BOY actually."  I totally couldn't believe she said that to me! I started to just leave but she told me she wasn't finished yet. I asked her why she was saying that stuff to me. She told me she was sick of me. She said " you have a gorgeous boyfriend and guys always give you all the attention. That's totally not fair Julia. You're not even really a girl. It's not right." My other friend hadn't said a word during all that. When I looked at her she said " well it's all kind of true Julia." 

I just left. I had really believed they were both real friends. I guess they only wanted to be my friend when they thought I was an androgynous gay boy. I guess I crossed some line by transitioning to female. I just can't believe they feel that way about me. The whole time she was ripping me apart Beth had a look of just hatred in her eyes. I can't help it if guys pay attention to me or if she has a bad relationship with her dad. But it's totally obvious she hates me for it. I kept telling myself I wasn't going to let this bother me but it really does. I tried to just put it out of my mind but I can't.  I guess I'm just stupid but I never saw this coming. They were the last 2 people I was friends with before I transitioned.  I'm at the point where I don't even want to try having female friends anymore. Since I transitioned female friends just don't work out.

Jealousy is a horrible thing and those two seem to have it bad.  Sorry that happened to you but if it's any consolation it used to happen to my CIS daughter a lot too because she was prettier, or smarter, or more successful, or whatever other reason someone could dream up in their jealous mind.  Some people I think are just too self centered to give friendship unless they feel they get something more in return.


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I don't really have that problem with friends but then again I'm still "male" most of the time since I'm not really that passable yet. Though my sister said similar and hurtful things (different context). We don't talk and I know she told our other sister she misses me but her feelings aren't more fragile than my own. When I see for Christmas I'm not really gonna mention anything because I'm a (mostly) forgiving person.


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Sounds like petty jealousy to me.  They may try to reconcile in the future.  Being Trans, just gave them some added ammunition to what they would have said had you been cis.  It's up to you how you will treat it when/if they try to make amends.

It sounds to me like thwy are both just super jealous of you.  You being trans was just an easy thing to pick on.  If you were AFAB they would have still been as pissy because you are prettier, get all the attention from guys, have a goid relationship with your dad, etc.  I think you just need better friends.  These two arent worth your time.  I have similar feelings about a lot of people i grew up with.  Since graduating high school, i left with full knowledge this was it.   I have never been back to that town, not ever.  I know the same people would have those stupid same attitudes, only now that they would see me as trans, theyd throw that into the mix too.  Im not advocating moving to another city, just dont hang with them anymore!

Bari Jo

Wow, so jealous and insecure. They don't deserve your friendship.


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Jealousy is p ugly on its own. But it's another thing entirely to take a shot at your transness. I know people who wouldn't even fathom using that as ammo during an argument. Jealousy can be worked on, it can be talked through and resolved. Deliberate misgendering? That's a different realm of ugly and it's a betrayal of trust in a way. No matter how much you may try to repair your relationship beyond that point you'll always be left wondering if they can really see you as you want to be seen, or if they'll always secretly think of you as your pre-transition self.

wow jealous much?  lol not real friends anyway ...

The funny thing is I was always jealous of them because they were born female. But I was never jealous in a mean way. Just envious.

My daughter had the same falling out with some of her high school friends. It happens. If they are real friends, they'll come back and apologize.

I'm so sorry Julia. I agree with everyone, it does sound like they're jealous, but this was really uncalled for. I really appreciate your posts on here, you've gone through a lot of really sad stuff but I also noticed that your dad and your brother are just amazing to you, if those girls were really your friends they should be happy that you have family that supports you so much and they should realize that transitioning is not an easy thing to do. I actually realized just this weekend that transitioning has kind of alienated me a lot, and this is the loneliest I've ever felt, and I'm not even officially out yet. I hope things get better for you.

Jealousy I would say also like so many other. Some genetic woman think they have the upper edge on us being trans and everything that they can't take a guy paying attention to a transgender woman and not them. How can a guy like a transgender woman more than them is what is going on in their head.  That is why they took a shot at you for being trans. They must be very insecure.

And if you were a cisgirl, they would have said something about your nose, or your butt, or your whatever. Girls are like that.

 
>:( >:( >:(
Wow! I'm sorry your friends are being so horrible to you. If you ever decide to contact them again I would start by sending them a link to the wikipedia page on Confirmation Bias.

QuoteConfirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is a variation of the more general tendency of apophenia.

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

They think your life is perfect. They notice that you get hit on more, see your great relationship with your dad, and your great relationship with your boyfriend. They forget the various forms of bullying you've endured, that you wish you could have been AFAB, and (assuming it's something you want) that you'll never be able to give birth.

Quote from: Daisy Jane on November 05, 2017, 11:09:02 AM

>:( >:( >:(
Wow! I'm sorry your friends are being so horrible to you. If you ever decide to contact them again I would start by sending them a link to the wikipedia page on Confirmation Bias.

They think your life is perfect. They notice that you get hit on more, see your great relationship with your dad, and your great relationship with your boyfriend. They forget the various forms of bullying you've endured, that you wish you could have been AFAB, and (assuming it's something you want) that you'll never be able to give birth.

Omg so much this. Julia, you already know what my stance on this is. My heart goes out to you. I have had similar experiences. Drop these friends like a hot potatoe. They don't deserve your friendship plus they'll never see you as you are as evidenced by their comments, which is really sad. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life. And yes they should think twice before they call you lucky or invalidate your struggles. Would they have walked a mile in your shoes? I don't think so.

As an Earl of Chesterfield said,
"Inferiority is what you enjoy in your best friends."

Your friends no longer feel superior to you and they can't stand it.

Cis women you befriend after your SRS should see you from the start as who you really are, so it may be different with them.

Sorry to hear about that experience Julia.

In one sense those kind of friends may do us a favor by revealing the shallowness of their relationship with us.  Too bad that some folks can't get past the simple labels and work toward a deeper relationship.

I bet you will have better friends to make in the near future.
 

Well Jealously insecurity does affect any friendship, I know I have been jealous of people it is how you deal with your jealously issues, I am learning even where I work a few cis females have made comments that show that they are jealous of myself and I think I am the last one to be jealous of. You did not cross any line just be yourself if your friends don't like it than they are not your true friends.

Were you really close friends with these two women?  Did you share with each other your fears, personal insecurities, daily struggles, and lifelong challenges?  I find that when my female friends and I are vulnerable with each other, we are more likely to overlook and maybe even forget any feelings of jealousy we have for each other, because we understand that life isn't always better for the other woman.

Wow! Yes that's horrible and is pure jealousy for sure. I'm in agreement with everyone too. I'm new into transition and have only come out to close friends and family. They've all been fantastic so far and I love them. Most of my close friends are cismale so I'm hoping that if I become even remotely pretty they won't be jealous of that one. In this day and age where my school friends are social medialily coming out of the woodwork I've a lot of " friends" that have still to know the real me, both male and female friends. I'm not so sure of what I'll encounter, both positives and negatives, I'll do my best to wear a thick skin but I'm sure some of it will hurt 😔. I'm early as I said in my journey but I see that part of my transition will be to not only to become wholly myself but also to reaffirm friendships, quality over quantity. I'm sorry for your hurt. From what I've read when you've helped others on here you have good wisdom and heart and hope this will carry you above their lack of it.

She has emotional triggers related to self worth. She's looking outside herself instead of at herself, and trying to understand why she believes what she does about herself. It's not your fault nor your problem. There are a lot of people out there that are time bombs looking to dump on someone because they don't know themselves and want someone to blame. Don't feed it.


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Jealousy does tend to make peoples tongues slip with petty insults.
Some people are jealous of me for being skinny, instead of the overweight normality of most women in my area. All I can do is tell them "I'm sorry, but gaining weight is incredibly difficult for me." Then, there are those jealous of my height of 5' 10", instead of the average height of 5' 5". All I can tell them is "at least you don't have to duck under things as often."  Then, they can see that even I have struggles, even if my struggles are not the same as theirs.

I think it's terrible they were misgendering you if that's what happened then they're definitely wrong for that. But I also don't know the whole story and it's one sided. I'm only responding again because I guess I'm automatically following this post after replying the first time and keep getting notifications.

I don't like that the automatic response is that they're jealous. No offense but none of us are that special lol (I don't mean any one group specifically I mean everyone, generally)


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Quote from: dist123 on November 05, 2017, 05:49:20 PM
I don't like that the automatic response is that they're jealous. No offense but none of us are that special lol (I don't mean any one group specifically I mean everyone, generally)


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It's not that we are special. The girl literally said to Julia that it upsets her that she gets all the attention and that her dad pays for her stuff. If that's not jealousy then what is it?


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Not supprised their jealous (I know i am[emoji6]) but they dont have to be so damn bitchy about it. I wouldnt bother with those fools if i was you.

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The first thing I'd recommend is maybe if you make any future female friends just don't tell them you're trans, BUUUUT given that whether or not you're perceived as cis you'll gain some enemies for simply appearing "perfect" then I guess it's not really worth it.

That's heartbreaking, though.

Wish I had some experiences to draw from, but no one I knew before transition has ever been that mean. I women I know understand that despite some of the perks I get, there are drawbacks to being trans, the primary one being that gender dysphoria FREAKING SUCKS. People who can't respect or understand that are not worth your time.

If there's anything positive that can be gleaned from this is that you possess something that others covet, and in some ways that can be an empowering feeling, despite how cruelly those sentiments are expressed.

Don't look back. Just leave them behind.

Julia, I'm sure that was a frightening and and a horrible experience. People have a tendency to want or desire whatever another has - and usually they do not want to take up the work, the pain, the grounding that went into it. They just want.

The important thing to my mind is you.
You can feel offended, slighted and upset. You can harbour resentment, it may be that you over think it and make silly plans of retribution or revenge.

In short you could reduce yourself to their level.

On the other hand you can learn and appreciate the comments: no matter how hurtful they were.

Yes you do have a Dad who loves and cares for you. You have a boyfriend who loves you and you love him. You have a job and you work and you help your family at home.
You help people here.

You contribute and your success and happiness is built on a foundation of doing something. It isn't a given that we never have anything; most people do not.

When people respond with such statements of 'I want what you have and why should you have it anyway?' it is a lash out of pain and frustration. It doesn't make it any sense and it doesn't help them overcome their problem. It probably didn't even make them feel good.
They are now probably feel ashamed and are trying to hide it and even rationalise it - probably with 'only if' thoughts.

So when the next time you all meet - if you do. Accept their friendship if it is given. Let them apologise and let them find themselves again. Do not bare a grudge and offer them a smile and sympathy.

They are the ones who lost their humanity in this exchange, not you. Be gracious and forgiving.

I'm sorry they treated you like that. Sounds like the one "friend" is extremely jealous.
To start with she's envious of your relationship with your dad. Also since your dad provides so well for you as to be able to cover your insurance cost. Evidently her parents are not so well off and/or her relationship with her dad is lacking what she internally wishes it would be.
As you transitioned you found a stable boyfriend. Sounds like she can't keep one long. Honestly your boyfriend is exceptional because at such a young age he loves you, not just lusts after you. Many young men are driven by lust alone. Its common enough to be a movie cliche. Then you obviously draw a lot of the boy's attentions.
Maybe she will get over it and apologize. If not I'm sorry for you loosing a friend. It is very much catty drama.

Having dealt with rubbish like this on a number of occasions, I just want to be sure you understand one thing, Julia. People will misgender (a quick flip of the bird to my spellchecker for underlining that word in red, by the way) you intentionally if they really, really want to push you away. This is not a matter of misunderstanding - she knows she's crossing a line here that you just do not cross. This is she'd like you to exit her life.

So slam the bloody door on her and don't look back. My own social circles seem to revolve in 2-4 year patterns depending on where I am, who I've been spending time with recently, who has to relocate for education or work, etc. Globalization and online relations mean people are less reliant on in-person connections than ever before - usually for school, work, or some other institution that brings groups of people together.

I think it would be very self-deluding these days, especially in gender related situations, to imagine that friends are for life, that people have your best interests in mind, etc. That's a bunch of filth. People are self-centered as all hell. You either find someone entertaining, or enjoyable to be around, or that they support your identity in some way, or serve some kind of purpose for you, or basically they're just a hanger-on. It's important to think of friendships in terms of what each person gets from the relationship and be sensitive to how that will evolve over time.

It's very, very rare that you find someone who will stand the test of time, where loyalty, honor, and devotion to something bigger than the both of you that unites you is the force at play. Cherish those when you find them. Everyone else is just another tosser and you really can take them or leave them without being any worse for wear - if you have the understanding and resolve necessary to accept the reality of the situation, that is.

EDIT for a quick anecdote: An old ex- messaged me a couple years back, asking how I was, explaining exactly why I'd been dismissed in this very fashion: claiming to feel very, very guilty about having done that to me, truly feeling much better off in life than deserved, etc. My response? Essentially, "I'm terrible, everything's awful!" (True at the time, by the way.) I mean seriously, if somebody is going to do that level of harm to me, and then put themselves up naked on a cross, damn right I'm going to call down a snowstorm and make them shiver too while they're up there. People like this are just not worth your time. Enjoy cleaning them out of your mind and life.

It's sad that people can't be friends with one common trait. Being human.  After all, isn't that all that matters? I never thought I could please everyone. So if I lose one or two along the way there are 6.5 billion others. Yes you may have to sort them out and it may be a little time consuming. But, they are out there. Be true to yourself without regret. Enjoy your youth while you have it. In fact I really enjoy your puzzlement because it shows you are growing, seeking answers. By the way. Bed bugs are real.

Julia, welcome to the world of women! What I can say is to forgive them. It's what Cindy said, and I know from personal experience the effect it can have. It takes a load of hurt off of you, and when you see them again you can look them in the eye and say 'hi, how ya doing' and watch them shrivel! I'm sure they know they crossed the line and meant too, you don't have to hold on to that. Let them go, your a fine girl and I'm sure you'll have a lot more [and better!] friends along the way!

As a lot of people said, give your friend time. If she apologizes, you'll both probably be better off. If not, tell her to buzz off. We say stupid things we don't mean when we're pissed off and having a bad day. I'd been jealous of a friend of mine for being so lax about her (total) SRS coverage when she didn't even care to get it, and what I said to her wasn't much better.

The other thing might be not telling your future friends your history, assuming you intend to stealth. Either way, you're going to get this kind of attention. I guess no one's obligated to do this, but if someone's feeling down, a little reassurance can go a long way. Perhaps the next time such a conflict arises, lead with that.

I don't know, but you'll definitely feel better in a few days. Pre-transition friends are overrated.

I'm somewhat curious how things have progressed from a couple weeks ago.  Have you seen, or heard from them again?  Have amends been made, or offered?  If not, how are things going for you?

I'm no longer friends with her. She did come over and apologize. She said she's been getting more and more jealous for a while now and she just blew up but that she didn't mean what she said. I don't believe her. She did mean it. I don't want any more to do with her. I thought about it quite a bit. The fact she said I wasn't really a girl and calling me a daddy's "boy" tells me that's how she really feels. I realize people get mad and say things but she crossed a line. I don't care how mad you get at someone, there are just some things you don't say to someone. No matter how mad I got at her I would never tell her she has a big nose or make fun of the port wine birthmark on her forehead because that would be really messed up and I know how sensitive she is about those things. And I feel like she will always consider me not to be a "real" girl. And if she gets mad at me again what else might she do? Possibly out me in public? I had a " friend" do that to me once to some guys. I don't think they believed her thank god. I have enough to worry about without worrying that a supposed friend is going to turn on me again. I'm tired of having negative people in my life. It's not worth the stress.

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 16, 2017, 07:05:12 AM
I'm no longer friends with her. She did come over and apologize. She said she's been getting more and more jealous for a while now and she just blew up but that she didn't mean what she said. I don't believe her. She did mean it. I don't want any more to do with her. I thought about it quite a bit. The fact she said I wasn't really a girl and calling me a daddy's "boy" tells me that's how she really feels. I realize people get mad and say things but she crossed a line. I don't care how mad you get at someone, there are just some things you don't say to someone. No matter how mad I got at her I would never tell her she has a big nose or make fun of the port wine birthmark on her forehead because that would be really messed up and I know how sensitive she is about those things. And I feel like she will always consider me not to be a "real" girl. And if she gets mad at me again what else might she do? Possibly out me in public? I had a " friend" do that to me once to some guys. I don't think they believed her thank god. I have enough to worry about without worrying that a supposed friend is going to turn on me again. I'm tired of having negative people in my life. It's not worth the stress.

Fair enough.  I can see now where her jealousy comes from, though.  Port wine stains/birthmarks are not something most people see, and are often viewed as something that makes one ugly.  I knew a gentleman who had one across half of his face, and I was his only friend.  He was treated like a monster most often, and children would run from him.  He ended up committing suicide about 8 years ago because of it.  Worst thing about it, was that he was a remarkably talented man, amazing singing voice, and incredibly friendly.

Long story short, she was jealous that you changed your condition into something beneficial, and she couldn't find a way to make the same change.  She did what most humans do, and lashed out at a target of opportunity to make her self feel better because of her own perceived failing.

I'm not defending her actions, just defining a possible reason for it.  She may need psychological services for depression and anxiety, these can cause uncharacteristic outbursts.

Good for you. You made the right decision. Enjoy the freedom.

Meh! I didn't lose any friends, but 2 of my ex girlfriends unfriended me on Facebook when they found out. XD To hell with them! There is nothing but forwards to go in this life! Keep on marching! You'll have an entire arsenal of friends soon enough! Don't ever let someone else's opinion of you deter you from what matters to you. If you feel you need friends, particularly female friends since that seems to be the complaint, try making new ones. Hang out with them instead. At least, until your previous friends calm down and realize the error of their ways and truly apologize for that.

Yeah that friendship's over. There's no coming back from that. And I experienced this too. There's this weird thing where people who previously seemed fine and who you got along with, suddenly turn on you in a really hostile manner when it sinks in that you really are trans. It's really bizarre. It doesn't matter how much you both invested or how long the friendship lasted, they go out of their way to just outright destroy it. It's like, why we gotta go through all that? Just say you don't want to be friends anymore. I'll never understand it.

I'll never understand it either. I don't know why people have to put all of these obstacles in-between something as simple as just ending the relationship in the first place. Why go through all the hell of arguing, silent treatment, mind games, and the whole spectrum of bull->-bleeped-<- that comes with avoiding something as simple as telling someone you don't want to be a part of their lives anymore. Then move on with your life... This especially holds true in intimate relationships beyond friendship. To sit there and have someone fall in love with you, and then betray them because they are trans, knowing they were trans long before you made the decision to bring them into your life, and have sex with them. I don't get it. Go get a cis woman, and leave me the f#@$ alone.