Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ill start by saying i am not an activist.  I dont engage in any politics.  However I was a military brat, and this issue resonates with me.  My father is retired career army, and I work with a lot of older people that are conservative.  I asked my dad what he thought of the transgender ban on the military, and his response was full of "those people" comments and saying we are doing it just for the free health care.  He does not know I am trans, and I always thought he'd be accepting.  I decided to test to see if others had the same thought process and one coworker referred me to this article.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/03/exclusive-jerry-boykin-judge-usurps-power-ignores-real-issues-transgender-military-injunction/

This is from a friend, so I'm not going to jump on him, but he is showing his bias.  He also mentioned he wouldn't want to be stuck in a foxhole with a transgender person

Anyway, I'm looking for my own ammo I can use on this ban since I know I will have to confront it later with my dad and coworkers.

From what I can see the author is trying to say that because we are trans we will need continued hormone therapy which is expensive.  And it's also difficult to source.  So in effect, why cover us at all, lets not let us serve in the military and by extension have any job that offers health insurance.  This same logic can be used for any number of ailments,  like poor vision.  Glasses are expensive and you likely will need them forever with continued differing prescriptions.  Take the expensive part though and I must say hrt is cheap.  Even if I wasn't on insurance, what I see as the charges for e, Spiro, progesterone and finesteride is well under $80 a month.  My health insurance for my dog is more expensive than that.  The next part of being difficult to source hence hard to get to deployments is ludicrous.  I can get my prescriptions filled in an hour at any drug store.  I could even have some of them compounded if I wanted to.  Worse to me is that it's possible to order online without a prescription from some sites.  Sure it might be more difficult to locally source medicine for deployments, but what army does that?  I don't see anything in this article about being in a foxhole with one of us.  I think that has been discounted since there are just so many possible fields in the military.  It's silly to think infantry is the only one, and a ban there means a ban everywhere.

As you can tell I'm a little amped up on this topic.  I don't like that I'm becoming an activist, I just want to know how to defend myself and support other trans people when these topics come up.

Bari Jo

Hey Bari Jo,  I am a life long community activist, politician and to the Breitbart crowd, a "libtard" ;D  I believe it is our duty as citizens to have and use our voice for support, dissent and redress or be guilty of complicity by silence.

Any sort of transgender ban is intentional and overt discrimination of a group of people by it's very definition.  The article is full of the usual erroneous assumptions and outright falsehoods.  Some folks just cannot seem to handle the truth of our existence and would like to have a social climate that keeps us in the closet and denied of our full rights to the public square and participation.

Not this girl!  I already have my DD 214 Honorable Discharge that lists my service in Vietnam with battle stars and scars.  I was queer and transgender then and remain so.  Transgender people are not all in transition, taking HRT or having surgeries.  People in the armed services who are transitioning can simply deal with it as a medical issue like any other person.

The truth is that queer and transgender people have always served and always will.  The reality of diversity could be celebrated rather than used as a weapon to harm each other.  Let's work toward that celebration:)

Thank you Tessa, your story certainly helps.  I hope to have lots of info to bombard my dad and coworkers.  I'm not liberal or conservative in politics, but some issues are, well my issues!

Bari Jo

Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/c7063e1b26d3a2bbcd87f5261bda2368.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Deborah on November 05, 2017, 12:53:44 PM
Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/c7063e1b26d3a2bbcd87f5261bda2368.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have saved this picture and will show my coworker when the time arises.  Thank you for your service BTW.

That's more than my dad has, but he's got some weird medical merit medal that he had to wear around his neck at dress blues functions.  He still won't tell me why he was awarded that.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 05, 2017, 01:34:51 PM
I have saved this picture and will show my coworker when the time arises.  Thank you for your service BTW.

That's more than my dad has, but he's got some weird medical merit medal that he had to wear around his neck at dress blues functions.  He still won't tell me why he was awarded that.

Bari Jo

I'll bet his award is the Order of Military Medical Merit.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Military_Medical_Merit

If that's it then it's for long and distinguished service.  Not that many people receive the award.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't see anyone having an answer to that record, Deborah.

No offence to your dad Bari Jo, but does he really think that anyone risks death or mutilation for free health care?

Quote from: MaryT on November 05, 2017, 01:45:25 PM
No offence to your dad Bari Jo, but does he really think that anyone risks death or mutilation for free health care?

I think he's turned into a bitter old man, just hating on anything for hates sake.  This same dad offered me an avenue to transition at age 13, but that was a long time ago.  I don't think he can remember anything that far back.

Bari Jo

PS I will not let myself turn into a bitter old lady.  I have too many hobbies that give me joy and life always surprises.

Another very effective piece of evidence is Kristen Beck, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Beck .

My mother became extremely paranoid about everything in her later years.  I think that was mainly from watching a certain news channel, that starts with an F, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  I've tried to inoculate myself against that by not watching TV at all since 2008.  I will watch Netflix and Amazon though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Deborah on November 05, 2017, 12:53:44 PM
Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/c7063e1b26d3a2bbcd87f5261bda2368.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quite impressive Deborah and you have me eternal thanks Ma'am since you were a Major. But I worked for a living.

But seriously though I have known some really good officers when I was in. Enlisted will always talk >-bleeped-< about commissioned and I am sure vice versa. ;)

But the important part is that we all served and served selflessly and that makes us all one percenters because we signed up to do what 99 percent won't.

But the whole thing is that we have always served and with dignity. I hid it. Not for me but for you and everyone else. I could also express it at times while off duty. I found a way. :angel:

I spent all of my time in South Korea and even found a way to express myself. It was not that easy but I found a way.

What I believe is a president should not make unilateral decisions though. The House and the Senate need to write the law. Do I think the government should provide HRT or SRS? Yeah HRT but not SRS though because that would fall under the category of elective surgery. When I served they did not pay for elective surgeries other than in the case of war time injuries.

I hated foxholes. Fox holes are death traps. In training I was always an aggressor. I used my brain. No one ever looks up so climbing a tree is a really good tactical situation. Then there is the psychology aspect of it. During the change of guard duty I would make funny noises less than 20 feet from the person on guard duty. This was totally in the middle of the night so... People are different at night than in the day. They are more scared at night. It was fun though. The funnest part was hitting them at night with CS in the tent to test the NBC skills.

There was only four of us and we could trip out the whole company in the field. In the desert it was a lot harder but in the piney woods it was really easy. Not even our Co knew where we were. Most times we were eating supper, breakfast and lunch at Burger King, hell half the time we weren't even in the woods but we kept them on edge. I would hope after I ETSed that it kept some alive if they stayed in.

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 10, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
But I worked for a living.

LOL.  There is some truth to that though and I'll be the first to admit I would have been a sorry sergeant.  I was lucky though when I was an Airborne Company Commander that I had some of the best NCOs in existence to keep me on track; 1st Sergeant from the 82d Airborne Div and all three Platoon Sergeants from the 75th Ranger Regiment.  On top of that were some of the hardest and finest Soldiers that anyone could ever have the pleasure of serving with.  There was absolutely nothing I could dream up that they couldn't do or die trying.  Quitting was simply an unknown concept.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We served for the free medical care?  Um, someone clue the armchair commander in that trans medical care in the military is brand shiny new, and precious few trans folks have been able to enlist since it has been offered.

Transgender people have served with honor, for decades.  We proudly and patriotically volunteered to serve in our nations armed forces, and we feel this assault doubly on our identity, on who we are.  Our brothers, our sisters, our family and allies have been targeted.  We know the price of freedom, and this test of our freedom and resolve cannot be allowed to pass.

I was a transgender person in the US Navy, not out, but a dedicated and patriotic person there to serve my country and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.

Being transgender but not out made life considerably harder.

Sharon Brown, a Navy veteran now working as director of human resources at the Los Angeles LGBT Center described this.  "You're less productive, you're always on guard," she explained. "It takes a lot of energy to hide who you are when that energy could be used for other things. When you can be open, you're much happier, you're much more engaged. The sun truly comes up when you're allowed to be who you are and it's shining all day long because you can actually serve as your authentic self and be proud of who you are."

I worked very hard, as many trans military members do, and like many other trans folks, was an overachiever.  I was in the Navy Nuclear Power Program, and I impressed the staff sufficiently that I was asked to stay on for two years as an instructor after I completed the Nuclear Power Schools.  Following that tour, I was assigned to a submarine, one of the most decorated boats in the fleet, and crewed by more overachievers.  And yes, as I found out years later, that included several other trans folks.  I racked up more awards.

I received the Navy Achievement Medal, several presidential citations and command citations.  I completed a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics.  My crew was awarded the Nave Expeditionary Medal for our mission performance, along with the Battle 'E' and Engineering 'E.  Besides my primary Engineering duties, I took on duties in the fire control racking party, damage control party, and was assistant ship's photographer, recording mission data and assembling media for reports to COMSUBPAC.  I was the Engineering Dept 3M Coordinator, overseeing all maintenance and care for the nuclear power plant, engines and support systems.

Trans folks tend to be driven overachievers.  (Just ask anyone who knows me...)  We work hard to try and be accepted, far harder than those born with their assigned sex and gender identity in line, because we really do have something we need to prove.

We trans folks are among the best and brightest in the service.  And yet, our president thinks that discarding us is just fine, because we don't meet some ideological purity test.  He thinks that discarding us is doing the military a favor!

We are people like Kristin Beck, the first former Navy SEAL to come out as transgender.
We are people like Carla Lewis, brilliant, yet when it was discovered that she had sought help with gender identity issues, was cast out of the Air Force.

We are people like Emma Shin, who served from 1994 to 2014 in six deployments in the Marine Corps, including a combat posting in Fallujah, Iraq as an infantry platoon captain.

We are people like Paula Neira, a nurse and an attorney, who served for 10 years in the US Navy, and more recently was chosen as one of the experts to be consulted by the military as part of the 2016 decision to allow open service for transgender Americans.

We need these thousands of our best and brightest.  We need their skills, determination, and tenacity.

Oh, the expense!

A report by the Rand Corporation, which was commissioned by the Pentagon, states that having transgender members of the armed forces would not compromise military readiness, ability to deploy or require a significant increase in health care costs. According to the report, there are approximately 1,320 to 6,600 active transgender service members. Of those, only a fraction — between 29 and 129 — would be expected to seek transition-specific medical care annually. This would cost an estimated $2.4 million to $8.4 million a year, an amount that will have "little impact" on overall military health expenditures, according to the report.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1500/RR1530/RAND_RR1530.pdf

The report is quite detailed, at 112 pages, and is worth a read if you happen to be a policy wonk.

There are probably around 15,000 transgender service members if we include active reserves, and around 150,000 transgender people if we include veterans.  That's a lot of people to tick off.  That's a lot of dedicated folks to replace and train.

When these service personnel are honorably discharged the expense does not disappear, but simply shift to the Veterans Administration.  There is no real savings.  Note that trying to make being out as a transgender person an event worthy of a dishonorable discharge with a presidential memorandum would be an unconstitutional breach of Article 1 Section 18 of the US Constitution, as all judicial changes for the military are powers assigned to Congress by the constitution.

The expense really is pretty small.  The budget for Viagra tablets is several times the expected cost of gender confirmation surgeries.   Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year.  Most transgender people never seek out gender confirmation surgery, but find other medical treatments such as hormone replacement therapy to be sufficient.

The impact on readiness argument is similarly foolish.  Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year. The Rand study estimated the possibility of 30 to 140 new hormone treatments a year in the military, with 25 to 130 gender transition-related surgeries among active service members annually. Following gender confirmation surgery the military member is ready for light duty in about 2 months, and deployable after 6 to 8 months.  Compare this with a torn and surgically repaired anterior cruciate ligament, or ACL, a common knee injury which would have a three month recovery time and include physical therapy before the soldier could be deployed.

The expense to recruit a replacement for the discharged service member is about $75,000.  The training cost may be an additional $100,000 to $1,000,000.  Think about it.  Building and operating a nuclear power plant for the purpose of training 200 people a year is not cheap, but there is no way to gain that experience with classroom work and simulations.
A new report from Palm Center, the public policy planning group, states that the cost of replacing troops is about one hundred times the cost of providing their medical care.
http://www.palmcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/cost-of-firing-trans-troops.pdf



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  I came from a military family. My dad served this country for 30 years, my brother served in the Air force Blue berets for more than 10 years that I know of. There was never any question in my mind that I too would serve my country and I found myself in Navy boot camp when my lottery drawing was held. I never found out where I placed in the lottery as I was already in the Navy. I served 6 years in the US Navy and was honorably discharged as a Data Systems First Class E-6. I, like my family, was proud to serve my country. I earned my VA benefits which includes medical benefits just like every other military person does, By signing that blank contract to give my all for my country, up to an including my life if need be.

Laurie

Quote from: Laurie on November 10, 2017, 06:31:16 PM
  I came from a military family.

Me too.  It was the family business.  My father was in the Air Force for 30 years and my grandfather was an Army doctor in the Pacific  Theater in WWII.  My family served extensively in the Civil War, all wearing gray, and also in the American Revolution on the American side.  Those are the ones I know about.

One interesting and unusual thing is that I have a picture of my father as a child sitting in his great grandfathers lap.  He was a civil war veteran having marched in the Army of Northern Virginia when he was only 15.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I missed these responses.  I have the activism category greyed out in my preferences.  See I truly do try to stay out of it.  Thanks for the additional ammunition to talk with my father.  If his mind doesn't change based on these facts, I may decide to not come out to him.  There is still my sister I can get support from, and I think my mom too.  As for my coworker with this attitude, he will accept the arguments or not.  He will have to work with me though.  Our company is too inclusive for that kind of attitude.

Bari Jo

Look this is the whole thing. Elective surgery in the military is not paid for. I think that even as trans I would not want the government to pay for SRS or even HRT. I even served.

I was trans in the Army and served with honor. I never asked for anything after I ETSed or even when I served. Screw the VA. I am eligible but I will die before I take VA benefits. They made my Dad a Hypochondriac with constant appointments for anything from the >-bleeped-<s to cancer.  When I ETSed I had to serve 4 years inactive and for four years they kept bugging me for a "birthday" physical. I don't think so.... I mean back then I had to take a DOT physical to drive and I would fax the paperwork yet they kept calling me for a birthday physical. ??? Sorry but I can't make it. ::)

Let me tell everyone something. If you think a doctor will care if you shave your legs or whatever else, they don't. So if you just shaved your pubes and everything else they don't care.

The first time I did a DOT physical with an MD that had to touch me and tell me to turn my head and cough I did but told him it was because of the heat I was totally hairless and he told me he didn't care. I made excuses because it snuck up on me but he did not. He could have cared less and he can't say >-bleeped-< because he can't.

Look the doctor was gay, He told me. I don't care for gay guys touching me but he just happened to be gay. He didn't say >-bleeped-< but I did ask him if he was going to take me out after he touched me. He said maybe. LOL He is gay and we are friends but I am trans and he likes guys so... You never know.

I think what I am trying to say is that if someone sees you and grabs you totally naked small hairless balls and so on, then just be open. You never know who is who and who may be what. I was totally embarrassed being totally hairless yet HE opened up to me. ::) It was on little cue from him and that was what he said about hairy "junk". Hairy "junk" stinks according to him.

Long story short, you never know who you may meet. This was a doctor and I am nothing but a truck driver but we are friends and he don't give a crap. He can't because he has an open invitation at my home with my BF and me. He has a partner and his partner and I am friends.

Trump spends more on a weekend jaunt to his golf courses than all the Transgendered vets wanting surgery in the next 10 years..

The Military is rife with alcoholics. I'll take being with a >-bleeped-< in a foxhole over being stuck in that hole with a messed up drunk any old day. That's just a decision that may save my life.
      These people shooting off their mouths invariably don't know us or anything about us. There opinions are uniformed ignorant pablum. I could give a crap what they say and do appreciate their stating their opinions so I can identify them for the drooling troglodytes that they are. Hebetude's are everywhere these days and they all seem to have an opinion. To them I would like to impart the old maxim that it's better to keep your mouth shut and thought an idiot, than open it and remove all doubt. But if you must, thanks. I appreciate the identifier.

Quote from: DawnOday on November 13, 2017, 03:33:31 PM
Trump spends more on a weekend jaunt to his golf courses than all the Transgendered vets wanting surgery in the next 10 years..

Maybe but the military and the people should not be on the line for elective surgeries.

I hate golf and have no idea how much a day on the greens cost. I could care less.

Look this is the deal. I would love to have had a nose job done by the US Army doctors but that would have been elective surgery to make me more aesthetically appealing. Of course my nose has never been a real problem anyway.

Now if my face would have been messed up by a sniper round then the US Military would be liable but I would not trust them.

Look. Forget all the HRT and SRS and FFS. You need to find a way. I did. But after the military though. Maybe before though too. ??? I was always weird though. Never really fit in as either wholly male or female. ??? >-bleeped-< it was weird because females would tell me >-bleeped-< and males would tell me >-bleeped-<. ::) Jesus Christ. I am different. Well I was kind of "weird" though. :-\

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 13, 2017, 03:57:11 PM
Maybe but the military and the people should not be on the line for elective surgeries.

I hate golf and have no idea how much a day on the greens cost. I could care less.

Look this is the deal. I would love to have had a nose job done by the US Army doctors but that would have been elective surgery to make me more aesthetically appealing. Of course my nose has never been a real problem anyway.

Now if my face would have been messed up by a sniper round then the US Military would be liable but I would not trust them.

Look. Forget all the HRT and SRS and FFS. You need to find a way. I did. But after the military though. Maybe before though too. ??? I was always weird though. Never really fit in as either wholly male or female. ??? >-bleeped-< it was weird because females would tell me >-bleeped-< and males would tell me >-bleeped-<. ::) Jesus Christ. I am different. Well I was kind of "weird" though. :-\

Well, there's no way in hell that SRS is an elective surgery for a truly transsexual woman. There should be no rehab for the drunks either. No need for Psychological help for those that require it either. And yet? the military covers those issues. And regardless, it's a football to keep us out and a football to throw us out. All they have to do is say they won't cover it, not declare us mentally unbalanced and take our livelihoods. Just another tool for ignorant haters to spread their ignorant agenda.

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 13, 2017, 03:57:11 PM
Maybe but the military and the people should not be on the line for elective surgeries.

I hate golf and have no idea how much a day on the greens cost. I could care less.

Look this is the deal. I would love to have had a nose job done by the US Army doctors but that would have been elective surgery to make me more aesthetically appealing. Of course my nose has never been a real problem anyway.

Now if my face would have been messed up by a sniper round then the US Military would be liable but I would not trust them.

Look. Forget all the HRT and SRS and FFS. You need to find a way. I did. But after the military though. Maybe before though too. ??? I was always weird though. Never really fit in as either wholly male or female. ??? >-bleeped-< it was weird because females would tell me >-bleeped-< and males would tell me >-bleeped-<. ::) Jesus Christ. I am different. Well I was kind of "weird" though. :-\

I drove past Joint Base Mccord. What a lovely golf course they have. Do they need it? No. Did the military need to spend $10 million to pay the NFL for it's pre game patriotic demonstrations. No. Does the military need a $20 billion boost with the bulk of it going to mercenary's and contractors? No. Do we need a $20 billion border wall? No. Should we be paying a salary to the likes of Ben Carson, Betty Devos, or the Mercers? No.  Should we give billions to religious organizations though tax exemptions? No  The government spends money needlessly. We are going to be giving tax breaks to billionaires in the trillions of dollars that my granddaughter is going to be stuck with. Funny how everyone wants to praise the military but somehow forget that these transgender members are just as much hero's as any other member of the military. They are putting their lives on the line.

Should the military pay for medical care for all the vets that get sick through their own fault; diabetes, heart disease, cancer?  All mostly preventable by simply not smoking, not overeating, and exercising. 

They do pay for all that self inflicted sickness so why not for this over which we have no control?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When is an elective surgery not an elective. If you happen to be like me, I didn't ask for this it was bestowed upon me by medical malpractice. I've agonized over it for years and thankfully my medical plan has options. It is not an elective if a medical professional recommends it as necessary for mental stability and treatment of dysphoria.

Quote from: Deborah on November 05, 2017, 12:53:44 PM
Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/c7063e1b26d3a2bbcd87f5261bda2368.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Either way you cut it, its a physical or mental disability.  I understand the logic

Quote from: extraaction on November 17, 2017, 02:55:56 PM
Either way you cut it, its a physical or mental disability.  I understand the logic

The logic is flawed. Even if it is a disability of some sort it is irrelevant to military service.  That is unless you want to posit that the physically and mentally disabled can qualify as US Army Rangers, one of the most mentally and physically challenging things to do in any Military Service.  There are at least three of us currently here that fit that category, so it is not just a fluke.

If that is someone's contention then they really think very little of our military at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Deborah on November 17, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
The logic is flawed. Even if it is a disability of some sort it is irrelevant to military service.  That is unless you want to posit that the physically and mentally disabled can qualify as US Army Rangers, one of the most mentally and physically challenging things to do in any Military Service.  There are at least three of us currently here that fit that category, so it is not just a fluke.

If that is someone's contention then they really think very little of our military at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. I am trans and that was always irrelevant to my service. What was relevant was the person to my left and to my right. If I died, no big deal but if they died because of me then a really big deal. I would not have been able to live with myself

Going through basic I got made fun of in the showers for my little "thing". LOL but when people would get exposed for "jacking" all I had to do was "finger". ::)

Army Rangers go through some >-bleeped-<. I mean, does anyone know what they go through mentally and physically? And they don't even go through the worst. SEALS go through some bad ass >-bleeped-< with surf sand in their asses and shivering but that isn't the worst either. The worst will always be the decision you have to make to use deadly force against another human being to save yourself and or others. Eliminating a threat will always be the worst that you will ever have to go through. And yes Center Mass is what you always aim form. There is no shooting a weapon from someone's hand to disarm them and there is no one shot that that will disable them. You keep shooting with a handgun until the threat is eliminated either by death or disarmament and then call the "Meat Wagon".

But if you sign up, you may have to see the eyes. But regardless I did what I had to do and I served and never asked anything. I served because of me not what the Government could do for me. I don't even do the whole VA thing either. I chose to serve 1. Because of me and testing myself and 2. For mine and everyone else's freedom to be who they are. I never ask anything from anyone. If I can't do it on my own the screw it.

I know that sounds a little tough coming from a sissy but... Hey I am trans so... Wow what a paradox. If it makes any difference I am in tears writing this. :embarrassed: When I was in Korea I worked way off post as an American Trans Bargirl. :o

Quote from: Deborah on November 17, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
then they really think very little of our military at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bingo!

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 17, 2017, 02:46:28 PM

So if you sign up there is a really good chance you may die for your country and everyone, even those that may hate you for who you are. Do not let that stop you. Find a way to get to where you want to be and who you want to be without the Government being involved.

Hyperbole much?  Look, serve if you feel the calling and thanks if you do, but military service doesn't even crack the top ten of most deadly jobs in America in any given year and, in counter distinction to most of those deadly jobs, it offers a kick ass package of benefits.  The question isn't whether the military should provide SRS in isolation of any other considerations, but rather whether comprehensive health benefits ought to include transgender care.

 :police:  What started as one of us asking for support to counter negative opinions of a friend has turned from that into a divisive argument between a few site members.   The topic is NOT what your personal choice is for SRS in the military or whether SRS is elective.. This thread will be shut down should this continue.  :police:

For the purposes of this site this is the final word on this matter...

QuoteSex Reassignment Surgery Is Effective and Medically Necessary

Surgery - particularly genital surgery - is often the last and the most considered step in the treatment process for gender dysphoria. While many transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming individuals find comfort with their gender identity, role, and expression without surgery, for many others surgery is essential and medically necessary to alleviate their gender dysphoria (Hage & Karim, 2000).

For the latter group, relief from gender dysphoria cannot be achieved without modification of their primary and/or secondary sex characteristics to establish greater congruence with their gender identity. Moreover, surgery can help patients feel more at ease in the presence of sex partners or in venues such as physicians' offices, swimming pools, or health clubs. In some settings, surgery might reduce risk of harm in the event of arrest or search by police or other authorities.

Follow-up studies have shown an undeniable beneficial effect of sex reassignment surgery on postoperative outcomes such as subjective well being, cosmesis, and sexual function (De Cuypere et al., 2005; Gijs & Brewaeys, 2007; Klein & Gorzalka, 2009; Pfäfflin & Junge, 1998). Additional information on the outcomes of surgical treatments are summarized in Appendix D.

and

QuoteIn many places around the world, access to health care for transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people is also limited by a lack of health insurance or other means to pay for needed care. WPATH urges health insurance companies and other third-party payers to cover the medically necessary treatment to alleviate gender dysphoria (American Medical Association, 2008; Anton, 2009; The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, 2008).

Any posts that attempt to contradict that without a major new study being released by valid medical authorities will be moderated if they attempt to suggest otherwise. I personally know that GRS and FFS worked for me.

I also won't have anyone coming to my site and suggesting, obliquely or otherwise; that just because they personally didn't need surgery, that it's not a necessary and required step for others.

For the record, anything coming out of Breitbart should be taken with the same level of credibility as The Onion, despite any sanctimonious tone taken by its self-righteous authors. It scares me that people actually think it's journalism.

To me it all comes down to an individual's decision. But there is no one size that fits all. Everything I have done in my life has revolved around being transgender and I took a lot of risks in order to be me. I have lost a lot of good job opportunities one which would have paid me a guaranteed 140 grand a year at least whether working or not. That was for the railroad. After the Army then I chose to drive a truck over the road and live in solitude in order to have and wear what I wanted. In that capacity, I could have been head safety officer at a company and turned it down because I would have had to look "professional" and have short hair. Now I live on a hope an prayer that business is good.

Personally I don't feel the need for GRS or FFS or even HRT. But now I feel lucky but it was not always that way. We all are different and have to do what we have to do for ourselves. I never passed as a boy because when I was five people would tell my mom and dad that they had a cute "daughter". ::) I was screwed from the get go and it was hell until I accepted it. Looking back over 50 years or at least 44 years when first memories are active, I feel lucky now but that has not always been the case though.

Being trans and one think I tell everyone is that it will never be easy. Even if it is totally accepted eventually then we have to face ourselves and then decide how far we take it to modify our physical bodies.

So Susan. I am so sorry if I insulted you enough to give me a negative. :embarrassed: The whole point I was trying to make is that everything I chose and even chose to give up has been because I was trans. I have no retirement, I have no nice home and my business profits goes up and down with the price of oil. Sometimes I make really good profits and other times I barely make my own bills. I could have a career that would pay me a very minimum of 140 thousand US dollars per year. I could have a pension and all that. I gave all that up in order to be free to be me. So now I have no certainty. If I wanted FFS or HRT I would pay for it out of pocket. I may have to sell a truck or whatever and that would kill my profits, what little I make from each but if I needed for me to be then I would. So I am really sorry if I offended you or made you angry or anyone else. :P

Thanks everyone.  All this really helps me with my ammunition to combat my father's views and my coworkers.  Ironically I have a friend that is an activist, and I've been conversing with her about the #MeToo campaign.  Because of my comments I've been asked to write for her online news outlet, "Real Urban News".  The only topic I would write about is this transgender ban, since it's the only one that really bothers me.  I'm not saying I will, as I have so much on my plate.  If I do though, I'd like to include quotes from this thread, no links, or actual names.  If you don't mind me quoting your responses, please let me know.  I will not use anyone's quotes if I don't get permission.  I'd write as Bari Jo, it's helping me own my transition.

Bari Jo

You can quote me if I actually said anything quote worthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look everyone I am totally entitled to VA benefits. I choose not to accept them. I remember the Birthday physicals and all the dental crap. Even after I ETSd I chose not to do them while serving four more years as inactive reserves.

I am glad I did not. My dad had his VA benefits and I have seen this man sew up his own would if he cut himself using alcohol and H2O2 and once he got VA benefits because he was in the Navy during Korea but never saw battle, the VA turned him to someone different. If he got the Hershey Squirts, he had to go to the VA. WHen he sneezed more than once or twice then he needed to go to the VA. He has dementia and most older folks will lose short term memories but with Alzheimer's running in my family and a VA Neurologist instead of using the term Dementia instead of Alzheimer's now he is convinced and he remembers more than I do short term.

So what I see is that PTHD is a bitch. It takes someone that knows and have a lot of experience to treat it and Dissassocitive disorder can be a symptom. Now us older folks probably know who we are but when you are 30 and joined at 18 and spent multiple deployments in a really hot area you may lose touch with reality and need an escape. People handle it different but you have to get totally inside. Hell it may trigger something that is deep within you and it may be a way to escape in order to try and be someone else. It may change your whole personality to another that can't kill but rather nurture.

This is the main reason why I am so scared of the Military doctors and or therapists and or the VA and so on handling the whole trans issue. I have been in some really bad places but I was trans before I ever joined.

Actually if the truth be know I joined to protect the rights of trans even though when I was young didn't enjoy those same rights. I joined to defend the freedoms of people that chose to be different and whatever else. I joined because my best friend was gay and went through >-bleeped-< growing up. I joined because I went through worst >-bleeped-< growing up than he did. Now we have the freedom.

Look I am nothing special. I served right along and suffered right along with other LGBT soldiers and people do find on another so the DADT was not a big deal before DADT.

So the VA is about politics and the President at the time. I hate political agendas. How far you want to transition should be an individual choice and not controlled by any political parties agenda. And that is why I am wary of it. As a matter of fact, fighting along someone else I could care less as long as they have my back and I will have theirs.

When I served it was about college and there we so many people that ended up with broken limbs and turned up pregnant and so on when there was talk of deployment. There were also quite a few that turned out to be gay openly and so on. I went twice yet I was trans. I had to hide it back then and I went twice to Somalia with two weeks in between.

All I am saying is if you join then join to defend the Constitution and Freedom of those that may come behind you. Not for what the Military can do for you. And no I am no big patriot or anything else. I gave 100 dollars per month for the first year contributing to the GI Bill and never even used it.

But if my ass is on the line, I don't care if the person next to me is LGBT, Cis or even the color purple as long as I can depend on them.

OMG I would love to have been able to serve openly with long hair and having to do the Dog Turd like the other women and wearing subdued earrings and so on. But even now would I depend on a VA doctor or even back then a Military Doctor for HRT or SRS or anything else, Hell no. I will pay or find a way to pay for doctors that specialize in Trans issues.

Sorry but that is just my experiences. :embarrassed:

Quote from: Deborah on November 22, 2017, 11:56:52 AM
You can quote me if I actually said anything quote worthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing on the this aggravating thread but I did want to say how cute your new avatar is, Deb! That is all, carry on. lol

Well, the government said when I joined that after 20 years doing whatever they told me to do I'd get a pension and free medical care for life.  So I gave the government those 20 years and did whatever they told me to do.  So I don't feel the least bit guilty for using what they offered for 20 years of service.  I do use it for HRT and even picked up my prescription at no cost at the Army hospital refill clinic just a couple of hours ago.  If they allowed more than that, which they currently don't, I'd use that too without a second thought.

And secondly, maybe the VA is different but the care I and my family receive in The Army hospital right now is excellent.  The doctors are professional and competent and I can always get an appointment with just a few day's notice, or even same day if I have a bad problem.  It was because of an Army doctor and the civilian doctors contracted by TRICARE that my wife is even alive right now after being diagnosed with stomach cancer at an extremely early stage.

I just want to set that record straight that we do get first rate care with the only exception being that transgender care beyond HRT is not yet allowed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 22, 2017, 11:35:36 AM
If I do though, I'd like to include quotes from this thread, no links, or actual names.  If you don't mind me quoting your responses, please let me know.

You can quote me, use my name if you like, it's all OK.

My whole article on the topic is here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx6f_yxlFYtISkZKVmJyREthY1E (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx6f_yxlFYtISkZKVmJyREthY1E)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bari Jo,

I don't think I said anything particularly note worthy but you are welcome to use it if you want.

Laurie

Partly in the hope of steering the topic back in the direction of the OP (hypocritical, I know, as I am usually the biggest culprit),  I would like to say something.

There have probably always been transgender people in the fighting forces.  In the nineteenth century, a famous example was Dr James Barry, Inspector General of Military Hospitals in the British Army.  His rank was equal to Brigadier General.  He is now known to have been FAAB with the name Margaret Ann Bulkley.

There was also Hanna Snell, who in the eighteenth century served in both the British army and marines, and was wounded in combat.  She did not reveal her birth gender until after retiring from the military.

I like, though, what the contemporary Canadian Lt-Cmdr Nicole Lassaline had to say:

"One of the things people always say is, 'Oh, transgender people, oh my! How do you deal with bathrooms?' How much does it cost to put a curtain in a shower cubicle?"

Quote from: MaryT on November 23, 2017, 09:04:25 AM
I like, though, what the contemporary Canadian Lt-Cmdr Nicole Lassaline had to say:

"One of the things people always say is, 'Oh, transgender people, oh my! How do you deal with bathrooms?' How much does it cost to put a curtain in a shower cubicle?"

For that matter, the first two women graduated from Army Ranger school last year.  There is absolutely no privacy there to take care of any bodily function.  Ranger students live very close and often at night have to spoon together just to maintain enough bodily warmth so as not to die.  They did just fine.  The apocalypse did not arrive and the sun didn't suddenly burn out.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok this is kind of a raw subject but a little about my service and why I joined.??..??

It was something I had to prove to myself. I did what I had to do and find a way do to what I had to do for myself too. I somewhat succeeded but it was not easy. I gave it up after a while and stopped re enlisting. For me that was my ultimate test and pretty much the final one. LGBTs serve and with great honor. Those that choose the career should be honored with whatever they need or want. I personally could not retire because I couldn't suppress it anymore. But why do we choose to serve? Mine was reason was two fold. OMG it really sucked at times but then again I had to find a way for myself to have an outlet also. It pushed me to the my boundaries and once I got out I never looked back. Only after that experience did I really know for sure.

Being trans is not easy. It never will be aside from being able to have a ZZ Top beard and wearing a sundress down the sidewalk with no sideways looks. For me as miserable as it was at times suppressing my true self, it made concrete more of who I truly am than anything else and for that I am truly grateful for the military and that I served. To me it was just another test to see. Yes I know I am different but everyone that chooses to serve is different. I chose as much for the freedoms of those that do not serve as I did to test myself just to make totally sure. It opened my eyes.

I ask nothing from the government and I served with honor and dignity. I did everything that was asked of me and then some but don't want the government intruding in my life either. Politicians cater to the "flavor of the day" and I really don't want them knowing who and what I am. That is why I don't use the VA or Obamacare.

Surprisingly and I won't say too much more but it is very easy to change documents from M to F and vice versa. My real name is extremely confusing. As for police, they are trained how to treat Trans now. I am on the insides of that little aspect of information.

Personally I would probably never sign up to serve again even if younger but then again I might. To me it was a test of my own self and own identity. As much as it sucked, it also pushed me farther and instilled a confidence that I may have never experienced otherwise. Then while serving I had to find a release of true identity and succeeded and overcame. It was only six years for me and I expect nothing. Anyone that spent 20 years and suppressed what I was feeling then yeah, I have no problem paying taxes for someone's self expression through the VA. I could only handle it for six years and 20 years would have killed me. :'(

So please no one get me wrong in this post. I tested and pushed myself and it instilled something within me to not care and that I had to express myself. Those that did and retired deserve the total benefits. I spent time is some really bad situations but I choose not to use the benefits because there are so many more worthy. I may have died but who cares? To me the suppression of self identity was way worst than the fear of dying. I don't deserve anything other than the freedom of self identity but those that spent so many years then ya'll deserve the benefits. Not me.

I hope this clears up my ideals of military service and being trans. :embarrassed: