Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi Everyone,

I need advice ASAP, I just got hired at Victoria Secret and am not allowed to present as my desired gender. I am new to transitioning but I live Full Time as a female, I am hoping to start HRT when I save a couple of dollars to get the lab work done and pay for the prescription. I spoke with the store manager and was told I have to present as Male since my DL and SSN have not changed due to the requirements in Texas.

I don't want to leave the job but I don't think I can be happy working there if I am forced to present as the gender I don't Identify as. (The Manager said I could present as a female once my DL and SSN are changed) I need the job to get started with HRT, anyone have any advice on what I should do. Should I stop my transition and deal with the emotional rollercoaster or should I look elsewhere for employment

You should probably keep this job with its onerous rules while actively looking for a more accommodating job.  You need the money to move on and at least right now you are earning some.


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I am conflicted on your question. I want to go with Deborah, but can't fully. They cannot discriminate based on gender and that is what we are discussing here. It does not matter what it says on your DL or ssn they must accommodate you. You are protected by the law not to be discriminated against. If my work had done similar with me coming out and dressing fem. I would have pressed the issue. Your manager has no right to ask this of you even being a new hire. This is my opinion only but, yes making money is important.

Quote from: Jailyn on November 11, 2017, 10:30:18 AM
I am conflicted on your question. I want to go with Deborah, but can't fully. They cannot discriminate based on gender and that is what we are discussing here. It does not matter what it says on your DL or ssn they must accommodate you. You are protected by the law not to be discriminated against. If my work had done similar with me coming out and dressing fem. I would have pressed the issue. Your manager has no right to ask this of you even being a new hire. This is my opinion only but, yes making money is important.

Texas is like my state, Georgia, and there are no LGBT protections.  Additionally I believe it's an employment at will state so they can just fire you without question if you raise too many objections.

So in this case there is little recourse other than to stay with the job as it is or leave.


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Quote from: Deborah on November 11, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Texas is like my state, Georgia, and there are no LGBT protections.  Additionally I believe it's an employment at will state so they can just fire you without question if you raise too many objections.

So in this case there is little recourse other than to stay with the job as it is or leave.


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Well that is totally lame!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Jailyn on November 11, 2017, 10:49:43 AM
Well that is totally lame!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, Florida is the same in respect to employment at will and LGBT protections.  Your particular city may have enacted more progressive rules though.


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I hate that in my city looks are more important than experience and abilities, it is already weird for a "male" to be working the sales floor in a store that caters to mainly female customers. The dress code is completely black so it is not like the uniform is gender specific (black pants, black top).

The sad part is that during my interview I decided to give the hiring manager the professional courtesy of letting them know I was transgender but apparently it didn't matter. I appreciate the opportunity however I didn't know it was going to come with a steep price.

Welcome to Susan's Place. The first thing you should do is verify if Victoria's Secret has a formal policy on this. If they are a corporation, it's possible that the local store manager has it wrong. Much the same would apply if they are a franchise as they would have to run their store by the standards they agreed to when they took the franchise.

Should that fail, you might be in a catch 22 situation. Some states require surgery before you can alter your paperwork. If you need a year of RLE, it would be impossible for you to get surgery without working in the new gender thus it would be impossible for you to update your paper work.

Prepare you argument carefully as you may need to educating the local store on transgender issues.

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Wear lady pants and makeup, 'androgynous' look, but go to boys room and wear your name badge. I'd go along, try to speed up DL change and SSN.

Your employer is not really discriminating you, they feel that they must follow some policies according to your legal gender. They accept you as a trans and won't fire you when you change your documents.... You need money to keep the ball rolling, and there are many jobs where women have to follow appropriate dress code and not where whatever they feel like.

So, if I were in your shoes - I'd keep the job, continued to search for a better one, tried to dress androgynously and try to find reasonable balance, pushed for HRT and DL/SSN change. Good luck


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Kailey, if you can determine whether this is just a rogue local store manager or a company policy - I am very interested to know.  Most important is for your sake, but a secondary reason is the answer will impact where I decide to shop.

All the best,

Kendra

Quote from: Kendra on November 11, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
Kailey, if you can determine whether this is just a rogue local store manager or a company policy - I am very interested to know.  Most important is for your sake, but a secondary reason is the answer will impact where I decide to shop.

All the best,

Kendra

I spoke with a friend who was a former manager at VS in another city and was told that the company does not discriminate on any level, she said that her location had a similar position with an applicant. There was no issue as she worked overnight so presentation was not an issue however when she was scheduled during operating hours she was forced to present as her birth gender and use her "Dead" Name. She resigned from VS after a few weeks when she was not allowed to present as her desired gender.

This appears to be a corporate policy according to my friend along with other former managers I have spoken with. Unfortunately it appears that the company will not be changing it anytime soon.

Again, legally your dead name is your name until you change it. They go by the book


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I'd keep the job because you need the money. I don't believe it is discrimination, if it was, I don't think you would have gotten the job in the first place.

Try speeding up name changes and stuff and then you can be yourself. I think they just want to go by the book.

If you could change your name to a not legal name, anyone else could also do that. It would be messy if you could call yourself what ever you want. Nobody would know who they talk about.


Tony

Many companies in my city will honor and respect a person who is transitioning, the company uses the applicant's male name for paperwork purposes while allowing the person to present as their desired gender. I spoke with an HR rep for VS and was told that the company has no issue however it is at the manager's decision to allow it. I appreciated the fact that the company is understanding however during orientation today the manager often referred to me as male and utilized male pronouns when speaking to me which made me uncomfortable all day. To top it off because I was viewed as a male I was relegated to the backroom and/or cashwrap.

Sad to say that I chose to leave the company due to management refusing to acknowledge and respect my current situation (there were other factors as well such as rude and uncalled comments towards transgender people).

I'm not sure about retail jobs but professional jobs on Indeed.com (http://indeed.com) can be sorted with the keyword "Transgender" and will bring up the hiring policy along with the job description. Try it.  Most will have a paragraph like this.
Facebook is proud to be an Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action employer. We do not discriminate based upon race, religion, color, national origin, sex (including pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions), sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, gender expression, transgender status, sexual stereotypes, age, status as a protected veteran, status as an individual with a disability, or other applicable legally protected characteristics.
Victoria's secret has this statement but may be applicable by state or locality. Checking the jobs available in Los Angeles all had this statement. In fact on further review I checked Miami and Houston too and they all claim not to discriminate. However right to work states don't really give you a right to work. It gives bosses the right to discriminate and fire you at will.
There are approximately 135 jobs in the Seattle area displaying this verification on equal opportunity.

That was one of the reasons why I applied, the corporate office advised it would not be an issue however ultimately it is up to the store manager to decide. The manager told me I could present as a female only when I had fully transition but that was nearly impossible as my therapist requires minimum 12 months RLE before providing me with documentation to see a Dr.

Hi Kailey, your situation sucks, but you can do something to improve it every day. Again, wear makeup and dress androgynously. They cannot prescribe what is 'proper' and what is not. Go for DL change (if you cannot change the gender marker - at least change the name). Start counting your RLE from whatever first verifiable moment you started presenting yourself as a woman (or change the therapist if you can) - he doesn't need to know about     your mistreatment at work, it must be your intent that counts, not your ability to convince store manager. Any way, look for a better one - but don't quit this job until you have a better job offer. Try to improve your life every day, it won't improve itself without you trying...


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Quote from: elkie-t on November 12, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
Hi Kailey, your situation sucks, but you can do something to improve it every day. Again, wear makeup and dress androgynously. They cannot prescribe what is 'proper' and what is not. Go for DL change (if you cannot change the gender marker - at least change the name). Start counting your RLE from whatever first verifiable moment you started presenting yourself as a woman (or change the therapist if you can) - he doesn't need to know about     your mistreatment at work, it must be your intent that counts, not your ability to convince store manager. Any way, look for a better one - but don't quit this job until you have a better job offer. Try to improve your life every day, it won't improve itself without you trying...


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Thank you for the advice, I chose not to go back to the company as I accepted a new job on the same day. I though about doing what you suggested unfortunately the employee handbook states that Men are not permitted to wear makeup, wear any earrings other than studs. Overall it was not going to be a good situation overall so I decided to go work for another company who were very respectful to my current transition as long as I follow the dress code for women.

Please don't get me wrong, I am very appreciative that the company even considered hiring me and I have nothing negative to say about the company. I was just very uncomfortable and upset that I would have been required to put my transition on hold. At the end of the day everything worked out well for both sides. Another good thing is that I was welcomed to reapply with the company once my DL and SSN are officially changed which I just found out is not as complicated as I thought it would be (No GRS Reqiured, HRT is sufficient)

I'm glad you found a better job :) Screw those haters at the VS!


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Wow. Glad you found a job where you can be yourself. Well done!

Quote from: Kailey_Lysette on November 11, 2017, 10:12:13 AM
Hi Everyone,

I need advice ASAP, I just got hired at Victoria Secret and am not allowed to present as my desired gender. I am new to transitioning but I live Full Time as a female, I am hoping to start HRT when I save a couple of dollars to get the lab work done and pay for the prescription. I spoke with the store manager and was told I have to present as Male since my DL and SSN have not changed due to the requirements in Texas.

I don't want to leave the job but I don't think I can be happy working there if I am forced to present as the gender I don't Identify as. (The Manager said I could present as a female once my DL and SSN are changed) I need the job to get started with HRT, anyone have any advice on what I should do. Should I stop my transition and deal with the emotional rollercoaster or should I look elsewhere for employment

Look elsewhere. I shop at VS at the mall and I can pass OK but I would not want a man selling me panties, bras or lingerie. I mean seriously, the only man that I want knowing what color or style of panties and bra I am wearing is my boyfriend. To me it is kind of weird that Victoria's Secret hired a man to sell their products. I don't want to sound sexist but I don't want to buy panties, bras or lingerie from a man that I may wear everyday. :embarrassed:

With that said I have bought some really sexy, turn on lingerie in a sex shop. :embarrassed: But that is different. I don't wear that everyday but just when my boyfriend and me get a little wild. :embarrassed:

But I would feel kind of weird asking a guy in VS about panties and bras. Then he would know and... he may be cute but I would always be self conscious especially if I met him in a club or bar. Would he be buy8ing me a drink because he liked me or my panties?

I'm glad you were able to find another job that actually respected your gender identity.  Honestly a company that doesn't respect a person's gender identity, even if it is different that what is stated on their ID, is setting themselves up for trouble... for those of us in states that have yet to legally protect transgender people from discrimination, the EEOC still views gender identity discrimination as sex discrimination, even almost one year into the Trump era.

(FYI I'm not a lawyer)

My personal stance is that it is not the government's job to try and regulate people's gender identity or gender expression, and that anyone who justifies the use of a gender marker on government documentation to try and dictate a person's gender expression (including employers/managers) is giving the government permission to interfere in people's lives in ways that could be very dangerous.  Although many conservative people may be unlikely to agree with transgender rights, they are often skeptical of the government especially if they have libertarian tendencies... though I doubt it would be convincing in all situations such as yours, this would be the argument I would use to try and advocate for the ability to express myself according to my gender identity if I were ever faced with your situation.

You know what? In relation to the original post and my reply, there are many trans women that would feel way more comfortable if they hired trans women and let them work openly at Victoria's Secret. OMG it is so easy to buy stuff on line but to upsell then it takes another person face to face.

OK How many guys go to VS to buy things for their "girlfriends" or "wives"? Probably a few but not as many that may if they felt more comfortable and that goes for trans women and cross dressers alike. I mean it is sales and if cis women don't like it then all they have to do is request another sales person. I mean show like HSN and QVC seems to always sell out the bigger sizes in jewelry, shoes and clothing. Just some of my observations. 8) Seriously some of these big box shops need to get with the program and start trying to upsell. Their business "gurus" at the top may be surprised by the profits if they let trans women work there openly passable or not. Just sayin'. :embarrassed: