Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi girls 🙋 I was reading that a cis-girls body starts to release progesterone at tanner stage 3 breast development.  Which helps with milk duct growth and firmness.
My endo upped my estrogen last month and have move from stage 2 to 3 now, (maybe 3 1/2). I'm wondering if progesterone is something I need.  I know this is controversial, but what would it hurt?
Smiles, Jessica 🙅‍♀️

I have been taking it up until recently.  I'm not really sure it's has any effect at all.  I stopped a couple of weeks ago and am going to see what happens between now and my next appointment in March.  I have been reading about some negative effects related to exercise performance and improvement also and since that's one of my focuses right now it's worth it to me to see what effect stopping has on my body.

My Dr. is also skeptical about its usefulness but let's me take it if I want. 


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Quote from: Deborah on November 18, 2017, 10:07:11 PM
I have been taking it up until recently.  I'm not really sure it's has any effect at all.  I stopped a couple of weeks ago and am going to see what happens between now and my next appointment in March.  I have been reading about some negative effects related to exercise performance and improvement also and since that's one of my focuses right now it's worth it to me to see what effect stopping has on my body.

My Dr. is also skeptical about its usefulness but let's me take it if I want. 


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I've heard it can make you moody, to either extreme and helps with libido.
Have you had anything like that happen Deborah?

Many women on the Forum reckon it is wonderful.

My endo advised against it but I took it anyway. It made me feel awful as far as mood and had little physical effect. Maybe that's just me.

Quote from: Jessica on November 19, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
I've heard it can make you moody, to either extreme and helps with libido.
Have you had anything like that happen Deborah?

I don't think it has made me moody or had any bad effects psychologically but my mood before HRT was so bad that I don't think anything could have made that worse.  My libido has also been nearly non-existent.  Last year my Dr. cut my progesterone in half and I didn't notice any differences before or after that change.

What I have read is that it can interfere in exercise recovery because of the way it binds to testosterone receptors.  Since I have stopped it my recovery does seem to be a little better but so far the difference there is subtle and may be due to other factors or even to my imagination. 


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I have read a lot on it on several websites and have read similar that it helps breast development. I also read that most doctors prefer not put you on progesterone. I took it for a while I think it did jumpstart my breast development I believe. It didn't affect my mood but, it make me feel not that great, as opposed to just estrogen. So I think there are some positive effects that help transgenders but, I prefer not taking it. I have heard a lot of us that do take it and like what it does for them. So I would say try it out and see if you like it, after you convince your doctor probably. Happy transitioning :)!

I have been on it for two weeks and cannot say I have yet to see any change in any department. I'll stick it out for 90 days then decide what to do. I am switching to injections for estradiol next week as the number of pills I'm taking daily is *insane* to me (8 + vitamins). My breast growth seems to be in a nonexistent phase though the dysphoria is also pretty low right now. Not sure if they are related.

I also have massive cravings for carbs the last few months since my estradiol dose last increased and have gained 20lb as a result, and my self control has gone flying out the window. The dr was concerned the progesterone would make the cravings worse, but that has not appeared to have happened.

I'm at 15 months on hrt and been on progesterone since 9 months.  Breasts started to become  rounder and firmer and heavier within 2 months of starting progesterone.  I take micronized progesterone, the generic for prometrium.  I take it daily for 3 weeks then off for 1 week.  It's not to imitate a menstrual cycle, per se, but when I am on it for too long without a break it starts to feel a bit cloying and excessive.  I tired a 2 week on 2 week off cycle but after a week without it I get some serious moodswings.

Cis girls begin producing progesterone at menstration. This happens in a natural cycle. Estrogen climbs then progesterone climbs behind it. The two hormones are naturally paired and required for the reproductive system to work. Progesterone in a cis girl is needed for the endometrial tissues to reach the state that pregnacy can occur.

Progesterone levels drop off in cis women as they age in comparison to estrogen levels. This leads to what is called estrogen dominance and can have symptoms such as pseudo-hypothyroidism.

Why we should all have progesterone bioidenticle only

Yes progesterone is involved with fully maturing the breast tissues. It works with HGH and two other growth factors within the breasts. It helps to round out the breast tissues.

Progesterone helps block estrogen's negative effect on thyroid regulation. (Stops pseudo-hypothyroidism)

The metabolites of progesterone reduce the blood clotting factor increase caused by estrogen. Reduces or negates the increased risk for DVT.

Progesterone is one of the main building blocks of allopregnalone, an important neurotransmitter. The hypothalamus can make a tiny amount but having blood circulating levels can reduce depression for most. Note though that depression can have a multitude of causes. Others can be the signal hormones in the brain such as Sertraline.

I have stopped it altogether. I find that it just makes gain so much weight and it also makes my skin so oily and I feel the anti estrogenic effect of P in my system.

It's just not a good feeling.

Quote from: josie76 on November 20, 2017, 03:44:56 AM
Cis girls begin producing progesterone at menstration. This happens in a natural cycle. Estrogen climbs then progesterone climbs behind it. The two hormones are naturally paired and required for the reproductive system to work. Progesterone in a cis girl is needed for the endometrial tissues to reach the state that pregnacy can occur.

Progesterone levels drop off in cis women as they age in comparison to estrogen levels. This leads to what is called estrogen dominance and can have symptoms such as pseudo-hypothyroidism.

Why we should all have progesterone bioidenticle only

Yes progesterone is involved with fully maturing the breast tissues. It works with HGH and two other growth factors within the breasts. It helps to round out the breast tissues.

Progesterone helps block estrogen's negative effect on thyroid regulation. (Stops pseudo-hypothyroidism)

The metabolites of progesterone reduce the blood clotting factor increase caused by estrogen. Reduces or negates the increased risk for DVT.

Progesterone is one of the main building blocks of allopregnalone, an important neurotransmitter. The hypothalamus can make a tiny amount but having blood circulating levels can reduce depression for most. Note though that depression can have a multitude of causes. Others can be the signal hormones in the brain such as Sertraline.

Thanks Josie 🙋 this is good information to discuss with my endo.  She might say it's too soon, and I'll listen to her, but I'd like to eventually try.
Smiles, Jessica 💁

Quote from: josie76 on November 20, 2017, 03:44:56 AMProgesterone levels drop off in cis women as they age in comparison to estrogen levels.

Has this actually been consistently observed in ciswomen?

QuoteThis leads to what is called estrogen dominance and can have symptoms such as pseudo-hypothyroidism.

If so, are we certain this is the CAUSE of the hypothyroidism or could it be caused by other changes taking place at the same time?

QuoteProgesterone helps block estrogen's negative effect on thyroid regulation

Estrogen, especially orally and in higher doses/levels non-orally, tends to increase TBG (thyroid binding globulin) and as a result more thyroid hormones are bound BUT the thyroid gland receiving less of it or less negative feedback, increases its production of thyroid hormones and as a result, the free concentration of thyroid hormones remains unchanged.

I've been taking it for about six months.

I don't really notice any changes to mood, weight, or skin.  Unfortunately I don't see any increase in nipple development.  I'll probably stop soon.

Kay progesterone levels do drop lower earlier in cis women. Check every study and charting of progesterone to estrogen blood levels. This also explains why the older a cis woman gets the less likelihood of pregnacy as lower progesterone levels mean slower second stage endometrial growth that is needed for an embryo to implant.

The term pseudo hypothyroidism is applied to estrogen interference thyroid regulation. Wether that is the official term or not it is known that hypothyroidism can be caused due to estrogen's effect and that progesterone or its metabolites reduce the effect estrogen has on the thyroid regulation. Most doctors treating it only monitor TSH levels and assume that a prescription of levothyroxin is the cure. In many cases in women (who have a higher rate of hypothyroidism then men ) hormone imbalance can be the trigger mechanism. Treating the symtom of high stimulating hormone and not checking for possible causes is common practice.

Quote from: rmaddy on November 22, 2017, 05:08:01 PM
I've been taking it for about six months.

I don't really notice any changes to mood, weight, or skin.  Unfortunately I don't see any increase in nipple development.  I'll probably stop soon.

Perhaps the dose is too low for you. Orally, much of it is eliminated, more so in certain people than others. Something to look into with your doctor.

Quote from: josie76 on November 22, 2017, 08:50:06 PM
Kay progesterone levels do drop lower earlier in cis women. Check every study and charting of progesterone to estrogen blood levels. This also explains why the older a cis woman gets the less likelihood of pregnacy as lower progesterone levels mean slower second stage endometrial growth that is needed for an embryo to implant.

Ok. Need to look into it.

QuoteThe term pseudo hypothyroidism is applied to estrogen interference thyroid regulation. Wether that is the official term or not it is known that hypothyroidism can be caused due to estrogen's effect and that progesterone or its metabolites reduce the effect estrogen has on the thyroid regulation. Most doctors treating it only monitor TSH levels and assume that a prescription of levothyroxin is the cure. In many cases in women (who have a higher rate of hypothyroidism then men ) hormone imbalance can be the trigger mechanism. Treating the symtom of high stimulating hormone and not checking for possible causes is common practice.

From personal experience and from speaking to a dozen of transsexual women, I can attest that estrogen did NOT affect my or their thyroid hormones in the least bit, despite taking only estrogen, sometimes at very high doses, for several years. We need to see studies where the addition of progesterone reverses hypothyroidism and where a clear cause and effect can be established between estrogen and thyroid problems. Until then, I remain VERY skeptical.

Estrogen dominance seems to be more hearsay than actual science, as far as I can tell with the exception being uterine stimulation where unopposed estrogen can increase the risk of profuse bleeding and uterine/endometrial cancer.

Hi Jessica;
I n Australia Prometrium became available off the shelf from Pharmacies about 4 months ago and a month ago my Doctor agreed for me to trial it for 3 months. I am just  starting on month number 2. So far all I have had is positive benefits:
1. I am losing weight. I have already had to make two extra holes in a belt I use as my waist slims down. Basically my constant need to eat has left me. When my doctor doubled my Oestrogen about 9 months I was for ever hungry.
2. My nails are much stronger and are growing again. Previously they broke very easily (after my Oestrogen was doubled).
3. I am sleeping very soundly - I take my Prometrium capsule last thing at night with a Hot milk drink just after taking my second dose of my Oestrogen (Progynova).
4. I am not moody at all, despite others saying I will feel it.
5. I have some upper pole roundness appearing on both breasts and the result is I am now getting some cleavage.
6. My skin is incredibly super soft. This is especially so on my buttocks and lower abdomen
7. 8 weeks ago I had a full body wax and still have had little or no hair re-growth. Mind you that might be from the Oestrogen as it has steadily been getting finer.

However I have felt that despite all the above it a little cloying, but my pharmacist said I should trial it for 3 months and then move to a 2 weeks Oestrogen only and 2 week Oestrogen & Progesterone regime, similar cis females, then if necessary to a 3/1 week regime if I am finding 2/2 to much to take.
I will let you know progress.

Judith

With my doctor's permission, I'm doing a little experiment to try and mimic more closely ciwomen as far as progesterone goes so instead of taking it orally, where allopregnanolone (and other neurosteroid/metabolites levels) exceed far too much progesterone levels, I open the capsule and apply the white substance inside on my vulva so that progesterone is directly absorbed through the skin (in that area, it absorbs more efficiently than regular skin). 

I'm personally not convinced progesterone is needed in us but if my doctor agrees, then why not? Just to see what happens :)

Results so far:
- sleepy, tired, a little out of it and LAZY
- headaches
- lower abdominal cramps
- hot flashes
- breasts a little sore
- appetite is slightly up
- a little bloated
- skin softer and glows more, similar to T (testosterone) effect but less pronounced
- hair less oily (I take T post-op).

So, mostly negative for now. Not sure I want to go on.  :(

Quote from: judithlynn on December 12, 2017, 01:24:14 AM
Hi Jessica;
I n Australia Prometrium became available off the shelf from Pharmacies about 4 months ago and a month ago my Doctor agreed for me to trial it for 3 months. I am just  starting on month number 2. So far all I have had is positive benefits:
1. I am losing weight. I have already had to make two extra holes in a belt I use as my waist slims down. Basically my constant need to eat has left me. When my doctor doubled my Oestrogen about 9 months I was for ever hungry.
2. My nails are much stronger and are growing again. Previously they broke very easily (after my Oestrogen was doubled).
3. I am sleeping very soundly - I take my Prometrium capsule last thing at night with a Hot milk drink just after taking my second dose of my Oestrogen (Progynova).
4. I am not moody at all, despite others saying I will feel it.
5. I have some upper pole roundness appearing on both breasts and the result is I am now getting some cleavage.
6. My skin is incredibly super soft. This is especially so on my buttocks and lower abdomen
7. 8 weeks ago I had a full body wax and still have had little or no hair re-growth. Mind you that might be from the Oestrogen as it has steadily been getting finer.

However I have felt that despite all the above it a little cloying, but my pharmacist said I should trial it for 3 months and then move to a 2 weeks Oestrogen only and 2 week Oestrogen & Progesterone regime, similar cis females, then if necessary to a 3/1 week regime if I am finding 2/2 to much to take.
I will let you know progress.

Judith

Thank you Judith!  There are so many conflicting theories.  I do appreciate some real life experiences.  It does seem to work for some women and not for others.  I'm going to ask my endo next appointment.
My body hair has thinned substantially and it would be nice if progesterone helped that even more. 
Have you noticed any change in your libido?
Hugs, Jessica 💁‍♀️

Hi girls 🙋‍♀️ I found this link to a good read about this.  It gives one study's conclusions, along with arguments contrary to it.  It seems a bit biased, but somewhat credible.

http://www.tgforum.com/wordpress/index.php/progesterone-for-breast-development/

Big hugs, Jessica 💁‍♀️

Interesting study on mice **lacking** progesterone receptors:

The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Volume 56, Issues 1–6, January 1996, Pages 67-77

"an inability to ovulate, uterine hyperplasia and inflammation, severely limited mammary gland development and an impairment in the induction of a sexual behavioral response."

Progesterone seems therefore to play an important role in sexuality and breast development, according to this study, at the very least, in mice.  ;D

Surprisingly, I've actually been feeling quite good in the last 48 hours and I'm seriously rethinking dropping the progesterone. Applying the contents to my vulva coincides with:

- an increase in energy and activity level
- a dramatic increase in sexual desire/receptivity, always "in the mood" despite recently reducing my Androgel (testosterone, I'm post-op).
- mood is UP and feeling really good and calm
- hair isn't as oily, skin appears smoother
- stomach flatter and less overall swelling/bloating
- appetite is up

I honestly am SHOCKED! So if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm happy to have a doctor that pretty much lets me decide my hormone regimen and is so open-minded. But, she insists on regular blood tests every 6 mths-12 mths.

I was speaking to a girl and she said how just right around the time of ovulation and after, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone are UP and these trigger a woman to have sex and get her ovum fertilized...makes sense! Crossing my fingers this keeps on going...the next guy I come across, I'm grabbing, pulling inside the bathroom stalls and...good times!  ;D

A couple of months ago I stopped progesterone which I had been on since the beginning.  I haven't noticed any negative effects and unexpectedly breast development seems to have started up again.  It was stalled for a really long time with the progesterone.

I am becoming more skeptical of the usefulness of progesterone for mtf HRT.


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Quote from: Deborah on December 15, 2017, 11:10:38 AM
A couple of months ago I stopped progesterone which I had been on since the beginning.  I haven't noticed any negative effects and unexpectedly breast development seems to have started up again.  It was stalled for a really long time with the progesterone.

I am becoming more skeptical of the usefulness of progesterone for mtf HRT.

Yup, been there. Now not so sure. Time will tell... Did you take it orally because when taken transdermally, I personally find the effect is much better and markedly different.

Well I am now on Day 40 since I started adding Progesterone (Prometrium) to my daily HRT routine, taking a capsule at 10pm when I go to bed also with my 10pm 2nd daily Oestrogen (Progynova) blue tablet.

After 40 days so far, my experience taking it continuously is:

Negatives
1. Quite cloying
2. If taken during the day - it makes me very sleepy - definitely not to be taken before driving anywhere

Positives
1. During the day I seem to have an increase in energy
2. I do seem much calmer, nothing seems to faze me
3. I feel very submissive
4. I am finding that I have had an increase in my sexual desire ( I am a Lesbian) and with female sexual partners, one commented recently that I seem to be so much more submissive and full of longing for sexual desire than before I started on the Prometrium. Its true in that I find that I am very much in the mood for sexual contact in the mornings.
5. A lot of Upper pole new tissue on my breasts. I am starting to get some cleavage
6. My hair seems a lot silkier and definitely softer
7. A girlfriend has noticed that my skin seems to be absolutely super soft especially on the face, my thighs and buttocks
8. I am getting more roundness on my buttocks
9. my nails have stopped breaking and are growing again. They really stopped growing  (dramatically so) when my doctor doubled my Progynova dose 12 months sags. Now my nails are starting to grow much better and are not breaking so easily.
10. Somehow my tummy seems flatter. I was at my beauty therapist last week for my 4th laser treatment on my décolleté, tummy and top of my bikini line (actually about 1" lower than the normal bikini line would be) and she commented that when I had my first laser treatment 8 weeks ago on this area I had to pull my tummy in (stretch it) so that she could do the laser treatment on my lower tummy and pubic region, but on my 4th treatment, she said whatever you are doing it is good, because you are definitely flatter in that area. She also commented on how soft the skin on my pubic mound was now. My female sexual partner has noticed that too.
11. I feel a lot less bloated and surprisingly I am just not hungry these days. Before on my Oestrogen only program, I was always feeling a need to eat something. These days I just don't feel hungry at all so my overall calorie intake has gone down. ( am also now taking the juice from three squeezed lemons first thing in the morning which also helps considerably)
12. I have had to buy a new belt for my skinny jeans as I have lost now 3" on my waist line which surprisingly is re-appearing, but my hips are appearing. I think fat re-distribution is obviously increasing in pace. So I am wondering if the combination of E+P is having this effect
JudithLynn

Interesting report Judith. Thanks for sharing. :)

I think it would be really good if other Susans girls also on Prometrium could give a list of Positives and Negatives of being on the combined regime, also indicating how long they have been on it and whether or not they take it cyclically or continuously.

This would be really good as a basis of persuading other doctors to at least consider it more carefully as part of HRT treatment regimes.
JudithLynn

I had quite similar results, Judith, with the skin and hair, breasts, mood, and sex drive on progesterone.  However, I have had the oposite when it comes to my weight; progesterone makes me want to eat everything and I've gained weight on it, albeit in my rear and boobs.

I'm hoping my doctor will approve adding progesterone for me at my next visit in a month. Maybe down the line I can post about it too!

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