Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I would like opinions on this since its bugging me.  I've always been a tinkerer, a builder, an inventor, and artist.  Doing this, I get my hands dirty, work in electronics, program, use power tools.  These are all traditionally considered male activities.  During my transition and afterwards, I'm not planning on changing any of that.  I may have painted nails, makeup, and hopefully look feminine enough to pass, but will still be soldering, handling a cnc mill, CAD modeling my next creation, etc.  I know I shouldn't worry about what others think but I do.  Can you think of ways I can fight their perceived bias in these activities?  I don't want to be considered less of a girl or even not a girl in their eyes because of what I do and enjoy.  My first thought is that tell them I'm a Tomboy, and remind them of it.  Also if they bring up this stuff, tell them yes I'm the cool chick, or some such.  My sister who is 100% supportive brought this up in another way saying I will be a very intimidating woman since I do all that stuff.  Anyway, I'd like your ideas on how to enlighten that this woman is this way.  Or how to help me look to be perceived as feminine, even while doing this stuff.

Bari Jo

How about a Wrench Wench?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WrenchWench

A designing woman. A mill Jill. CRC on HRT.

And you can file with style.

Steph

I like these names and titles.  Hackette, is my favorite.  Maybe have a sign for "The ________ is in." And fill in the blank with whatever title suits the current activity.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Natsuki Kuga on November 24, 2017, 07:23:25 AM
How about a Wrench Wench?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WrenchWench

I love that this has a quote about Kaylee from Firefly.  She is one of my idols.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 24, 2017, 08:27:56 AM
I like these names and titles.  Hackette, is my favorite.  Maybe have a sign for "The ________ is in." And fill in the blank with whatever title suits the current activity.

I like it! Since I'm into aviation, I've already been assigned the title, "Bad Ass Aviatrix" by my friends. Kendra suggested that I put that on my business cards.

Seriously, I think women in traditional men's roles are getting a lot more respect nowadays, and possibly a bit of admiration, especially from other women. I don't know if there are any "famous" women you could name and compare yourself to in your field. For me in aviation, it helps that a lot of people have heard of my heros. Harriet Quimby, Pancho Barnes, Louis Thaden, Amelia Earhart, Amy Johnson, Bessie Coleman, Jackie Cochran, Valentina Tereshkova, Sally Ride, Peggy Whitson.

And my favorite is my dear friend who was the second person I came out to. More than just a great pilot, she builds the most beautiful airplanes you've ever seen. Her husband is also my close friend, and tells me that he'll hang out in the shop and make suggestions, and she'll smile, nod, then go ahead and do it the right way. The only thing she'll let him do is the painting. They're my most favoritist people in the world. Here's an example of her work:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/swwd2elu3swdb17/LivsStarduster.jpg?raw=1)

So Just Own It™®©!

Steph

Quote from: Natsuki Kuga on November 24, 2017, 07:23:25 AM
How about a Wrench Wench?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WrenchWench

After reading that link, I was reminded of one of my favorite movie roles. Holly Hunter played a pilot with an aerial firefighting company in a movie called Always. The movie was a remake of an older one called A Guy Named Joe. It also starred Richard Dreyfuss and John Goodman, and even had a cameo of a still-beautiful Audrey Hepburn in her last movie role. It had a "she cleans up well" scene in the movie, like the link above refers to. I've seen the movie multiple times, all before I came out, and the cool thing is it can be viewed as a comedy, drama, adventure, and chick flick all in one. I was able to fool everyone into thinking I was watching it for the flying scenes, but in reality I was identifying so strongly with - and was so envious of - Holly Hunter's character.

It's one of my favorite movies. Right up there with Young Frankenstein, Airplane, and Life of Brian. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and look it up.

Steph

That is a gorgeous airplane. And we all have different tastes and interests. What a boring world it would be if gender decided that. It for sure doesn't

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Thanks Steph, I havent been exposed to any women like this in real life.  I am sure if I met your friend and frankly yourself, we would be instant friends since we are kindred spirits.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 24, 2017, 07:17:59 AM
I don't want to be considered less of a girl or even not a girl in their eyes because of what I do and enjoy.  My first thought is that tell them I'm a Tomboy, and remind them of it.  Also if they bring up this stuff, tell them yes I'm the cool chick, or some such.  My sister who is 100% supportive brought this up in another way saying I will be a very intimidating woman since I do all that stuff.  Anyway, I'd like your ideas on how to enlighten that this woman is this way.  Or how to help me look to be perceived as feminine, even while doing this stuff.

Bari Jo

Simple answer on this one: You are worrying about a non-issue, and women who do that kinda stuff are considered bad ass. ;D I don't think there's anything intimidating about it, if anything doing that sort of stuff would make you seem more approachable and down to earth.

I've developed(had?) a bit of a proclivity for femme, but at the same time I know I am a pure nerd above all else. I'm keeping my anime and comic book t-shirts, no second thought. And that's definitely not traditional, even if become more mainstream in the past decade.

Also, from the wrench wench page:
"Mega Man Legends:

    Roll Casket is a genius mechanic who's in charge of piloting and maintaining her family's airship . "

So you can see where my feelings on the issue lie. ;D

Also, at the end of the day, you're an artist. Even if it were an issue, artists can get away with a lot. :D

(Edit: actually, looking through the wrench wench page a bit more, it's pretty much a who's who list of my favorite characters, at least for games... Tali from Mass Effect, Veronica in Fallout, Lucca in Chrono Trigger, Rikku in FFX. Some good anime ones too!)

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 24, 2017, 10:05:13 AM
Thanks Steph, I havent been exposed to any women like this in real life.  I am sure if I met your friend and frankly yourself, we would be instant friends since we are kindred spirits.

We're already friends, Bari Jo, whether we ever meet in person or not.

Steph

Hi Bari...

I think I am who caused this post. There is absolutely nothing to worry about Bari Jo. There is absolutely no need for you to feel bad about not changing any habits. We all go through this differently. Some turn into a full girly girl and some still enjoy all they have loved all their life.

And to be fair: only a few of my habits have changed or the better description is that I have added habits. Most stayed exactly the same. You can still see me pulling cables and using all my tools, welding,  working on my house. Working in the yard and fixing my car (always hated it but still do it to save money). And I would love to own a CNC mill. #2 on my long time wish list (right behind a brand new weather station). I now do some of this in a skirt... even tough I have learned to climb up a ladder in a  skirt right in front of building maintenance guys is maybe not the best idea. Heels on a ladder are also something to avoid (but i tried).

I have always been a very handy person and have remodeled most of my house myself. I am planning on finishing this up, even as girl.

I still buy tools. I also buy shoes (a lot for both).

What has changed is that you can hear me swearing how my nails got ruined while doing it. But does it stop me? Not at all. I still enjoy all this and there is no reason why a women cannot do any of these things. And yes, I have added a few new habits to the mix. I never took that good care of my body. Pre-transition I never used any lotions or skin products. Now it is a daily / weekly regimen.

Thanks everybody.  The support here is amazing.  I'm choked up by it this morning.  Sarah, no worries about causing the post.  It revealed as issue I didn't realize was bothering me and made me want to confront.  Everybodys responses here make me feel better about being the girl I am, not the girly girl that some people expect

Bari Jo

Quote from: sarah1972 on November 24, 2017, 10:18:48 AM
What has changed is that you can hear me swearing how my nails got ruined while doing it. But does it stop me? Not at all. I still enjoy all this and there is no reason why a women cannot do any of these things. And yes, I have added a few new habits to the mix. I never took that good care of my body. Pre-transition I never used any lotions or skin products. Now it is a daily / weekly regimen.

Yes yes yes to all of it, but especially this. The nails drive me crazy, and working with sheet aluminum is dangerous for your hands. I've taken to wearing work gloves for everything except when I need fine manipulation.

I'm also realizing that the range of motion of my arms is just starting to be limited by these things growing on my chest. Aaaand... I'm going to have to do something pretty soon, not just to protect them, but for modesty reasons. That's all good stuff!!!

Steph

 ;D ;D ;D What a reminder. Yes, they do tend to get in the way. Padded bras are now my friend, they hurt on and off when they get into growth mode and they are certainly noticeable. Just have to work around it. I would never ever want to go back to being flat chested...

Quote from: Steph2.0 on November 24, 2017, 11:09:08 AM

I'm also realizing that the range of motion of my arms is just starting to be limited by these things growing on my chest. Aaaand... I'm going to have to do something pretty soon, not just to protect them, but for modesty reasons. That's all good stuff!!!

Steph

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 24, 2017, 07:17:59 AM
I would like opinions on this since its bugging me.  I've always been a tinkerer, a builder, an inventor, and artist.  Doing this, I get my hands dirty, work in electronics, program, use power tools.  These are all traditionally considered male activities.  During my transition and afterwards, I'm not planning on changing any of that.  I may have painted nails, makeup, and hopefully look feminine enough to pass, but will still be soldering, handling a cnc mill, CAD modeling my next creation, etc.  I know I shouldn't worry about what others think but I do.  Can you think of ways I can fight their perceived bias in these activities?  I don't want to be considered less of a girl or even not a girl in their eyes because of what I do and enjoy.  My first thought is that tell them I'm a Tomboy, and remind them of it.  Also if they bring up this stuff, tell them yes I'm the cool chick, or some such.  My sister who is 100% supportive brought this up in another way saying I will be a very intimidating woman since I do all that stuff.  Anyway, I'd like your ideas on how to enlighten that this woman is this way.  Or how to help me look to be perceived as feminine, even while doing this stuff.

Bari Jo

I would just say you're a 'tomboy', or just not put a label on it. It seems to be more 'socially acceptable' for a female to take part in 'male' activities rather than the other way round. I see where you're coming from though,  I love football, playing and watching (which is probably the only masculine interest that I have) and I don't intend to change that when I transition

Hmm.  So you're feeling self-conscious because you don't fit into the sexist stereotypes?  Smash sexism!  You do the things yo ulike to do because you like to do them.  End of story.  There is no reason why you must conform to an outdated stereotype. 

I was in the checkout line at Home Depot a while back, buying some electrical supplies for wiring up our barn.  The cashier asked me if I was going to be doing the work myself.  She was impressed as all getout when I said yes.  Not only did I impress the heck out of her as a very capable woman, but it was an unequivocal pass.  :D

Just be sure to get the smell of WD-40 off your hands before going out to a social event.  ;)

Quote from: KathyLauren on November 24, 2017, 02:47:49 PM
Hmm.  So you're feeling self-conscious because you don't fit into the sexist stereotypes?  Smash sexism!  You do the things yo ulike to do because you like to do them.  End of story.  There is no reason why you must conform to an outdated stereotype. 

I was in the checkout line at Home Depot a while back, buying some electrical supplies for wiring up our barn.  The cashier asked me if I was going to be doing the work myself.  She was impressed as all getout when I said yes.  Not only did I impress the heck out of her as a very capable woman, but it was an unequivocal pass.  :D

Just be sure to get the smell of WD-40 off your hands before going out to a social event.  ;)

Thanks, yes the part that scares me is not passing because of what I do.  I think this thread has shown it's okay to have these interests and still pass, like yourself an home depot.  I'll try not to worry about it.

Btw, I love, love, love the smell of 3 in 1 oil.  But yes, outside of the mill and tools it's coach perfume!

Bari Jo

Quote from: KathyLauren on November 24, 2017, 02:47:49 PMI was in the checkout line at Home Depot a while back, buying some electrical supplies for wiring up our barn.  The cashier asked me if I was going to be doing the work myself.  She was impressed as all getout when I said yes.  Not only did I impress the heck out of her as a very capable woman, but it was an unequivocal pass.  :D

Very cool story. I had a similar experience last night. After thanksgiving dinner Sue and I stopped at Best Buy and bought a dishwasher. Two ladies shopping for an appliance for their home, and I told the salesman I was installing it myself. [emoji16]

QuoteJust be sure to get the smell of WD-40 off your hands before going out to a social event.  ;)

Not my thing, but you might want to leave the WD-40 on if you want to pick up guys. [emoji12]

"What is that enticing aroma, madame?"

Steph

Sometimes it is bizarre... I had a 70 year old sales guy carry a 15lbs CO2 bottle to my car because he was feeling bad for that weak lady in front of him... just made me feel bad but he did not budge.

Oh and shopping at HD in full female outfit is just an experience by itself... especially if you are confident about what you buy and why... the looks I got a few weeks ago pushing out a cart with 20,000 ft of network cable in heels was just wild

I'm sure your sister means well but I can't stand it when someone starts telling a trans person they can't do this and can't do that because it's not " female behavior". My mom was really bad about that. She criticized every little thing I did. She would say " you're not going to pass if you keep doing that" or " that's not lady like". The really annoying thing is that before I transitioned she always criticized me for being so feminine. I never had masculine interests except maybe my taste in entertainment. I love gory horror movies and I also like a lot of sci-fi. I don't consider it masculine to like those things but some people do. I really don't care. I like that stuff and I'm not going to stop watching it because some people think it's masculine.

The whole purpose of transitioning is to be happy. Do what makes you happy. If others think those things are masculine, oh well. Who cares? And by the way, lots of people think a capable woman is very cool. The girlfriend of one of my brothers friends is a very pretty and feminine girl but she's also extremely knowledgeable about anything having to do with cars. Her dad owns a garage so she grew up learning about cars. My dad has this old car he's restoring and when she started talking about the motor and what to do to it he and my brother just thought she was just totally cool. I thought so too. She told me she would be happy to teach me basic maintenance stuff for my car. My dad and brother started laughing at the suggestion.  My brother told her about once when he told me my tires needed rotated and I asked him why because they rotated every time I drove the car. The guys died laughing. My brother said he didn't know how I could be so smart and so airheaded at the same time. She didn't laugh. She said if no one had ever explained what rotating tires was, how could they expect me to know. And for the record, it's totally dumb to call it rotating the tires.  They should call it switching the tires.

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 24, 2017, 08:15:09 PM
And for the record, it's totally dumb to call it rotating the tires.  They should call it switching the tires.

Rotating tires was much more descriptive in the days before radial tires. The correct rotation was something like LF>LR>RF>RR>Spare>LF. It took 5 rotations before the the tire would end up on it's original wheel. The idea was for all tires to wear out at the same time however if you attempt this with radial tires they will sing for several hundred miles before they adjust to the new location.

Try that on your father and brother.

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 24, 2017, 08:15:09 PM
I'm sure your sister means well but I can't stand it when someone starts telling a trans person they can't do this and can't do that because it's not " female behavior".

OMG, my sister would be horrified at this.  This was not the meaning from her at all.  Another word she used to describe me was formidable.  It was never about masculine vs feminine.  She meant it as a compliment to my skillset.  Its my fragile ego that worries about fitting in and passing.  Trust me, she's not trying to feed my insecurities, quite the opposite.  She even has confidence building events planned for us to do together.  She's still the unicorn.

Bari Jo

It's ok to carry over some of your traditionally male hobbies and interests. But try to develop a liking to 'women's' interests as well. You might find you enjoy them after all, and engaging in women's activities is very important in developing a social network of female friends.

I'm a tech geek,  end of; and when people ask me to describe myself,  the first word I use is 'engineer'.

Having said that, some of my interests have changed. I used to be a massive cinema fan, but no longer. I see it was a just escapism that I no longer need.
Baking is something I enjoyed as a child,  and gave now rediscovered a love for.

I still have a deep desire to build/restore a car and build my own house one day, regardless of ruined nails!

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Quote from: Roll on November 24, 2017, 10:05:51 AM
I've developed(had?) a bit of a proclivity for femme, but at the same time I know I am a pure nerd above all else. I'm keeping my anime and comic book t-shirts, no second thought. And that's definitely not traditional, even if become more mainstream in the past decade.

I was going to get rid of my anime t-shirts, but instead a friend is making them into 2 quilts. When I first started transitioning I felt like I had to be feminine in everything. It took me a few months, but I realized that was silly. I can still love giant robots! I DO need to keep my collection down to a more moderate size, though.

Yeah, done all that, ex design engineer and R&D, from airplanes at Reno to bulldozers and race cars.  I'm changing lanes because I don't have anything to prove to anyone at this point and I want to relax and do other creative things.  I think I want to do a lot more with makeup, like movie style.  I love colors, my machines showed it, and in doing my face I have a whole new medium to play with that fascinates me.  There's also music I'd like to get back to, used to play a few instruments.  Point is, I can still do anything I used to, but I also don't have to.  For me, I'm creating a whole new person with her own skills that will develop along with her own story.  Keep what you want, change what you want, it's all good!  Toni

nothing wrong with keeping some of your male habits.. I love doing DIY and I always help my husband. I am very comfortable in a hardware store, The store clerks do try and treat me like a dumb woman, but they quickly pick up this lady knows her stuff and some times I even know a little more than them.. and it freaks them out that this very girly looking lady is so knowledgeable with her painted nails, makeup, dress and high heels..

I am as comfortable in killer heels as I am in a pair of work boots.. and I can still burp like a male..

Ha... just to prove myself I just did a full maintenance on my Generator... oil change, spark plugs, oil filer, air filter.. had to get get a new deep socket from the local auto parts store :-)

She is a car mechanic in Hungary. And yeah, she has a dirty hand :) but I think nowbody quiestion her feminity.
http://szabolcsihir.hu/helyben-jaro/2017/06/vet-permetez-kapal-tuzet-olt-a-gyonyoru-autoszerelo

If you like your job I think you should keep that doing. It's the XXI. century! ;)

Quote from: sarah1972 on November 24, 2017, 06:50:49 PM
Oh and shopping at HD in full female outfit is just an experience by itself... especially if you are confident about what you buy and why... the looks I got a few weeks ago pushing out a cart with 20,000 ft of network cable in heels was just wild

I've worked at HD for about 7 years now. There are quite a few woman contractors and house flippers who are regular customers. My manager gives a class to the new employees that includes a speech about, "just because she's dressed nice and wearing heels, don't assume she's not a contractor."

I'm not out at work yet but I dress pretty andro. My customers and I sometimes trade compliments along the lines of;

Me: "I see you picked out the 'Name Brand' drill. I really like that one."

Customer: "Thank you. That nail polish really looks nice on you."

Me: ;D

Some of the things I like to do in my spare time include, making furniture, building computers and landscaping. I also enjoy cooking, baking and sewing. I'm just a regular modern girl, doing regular modern girl stuff.