Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Neolithic women were probably a lot stronger than you

By: Claire Maldarelli

http://t.cn/RYEsIVx

It turns out that the average Neolithic women (those living from 7,400-7,000 years ago) had leg strength about on par with collegiate rowers, but arm bones that were 11 to 16 percent stronger than the rowers, and about 30 percent stronger than a typical college student (at Cambridge, at least).

See also: Bone Study Reveals Why You Would Not Want to Arm Wrestle a Neolithic Woman

By: Sarah Sloat

http://t.cn/RYnvh6U

The team of archeologists and anthropologists report that women who lived in Central Europe approximately 7,000 years ago had stronger upper arms than living women — even today's serious female university athletes.
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I just found this interesting.  Women are naturally predisposed to be on average a lot stronger than people commonly believe.  The weakness that people expect of women is actually something societally and self imposed.



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Everyone is on average naturally predisposed to be a lot stronger then people tend to be nowadays.  Archaeological digs show that people centuries ago tended to have much thicker bones than they so nowadays.  Few commoners rode horses, let alone rode in buses or drove cars, so all that walking caused stress fractures that resulted in thickened bones.  Medieval men-at-arms were built like modern bodybuilders and the sailors who spent much of their time on the masts and capstans were built like gymnasts.  Heavy exercise often started in childhood, so ancient and medieval people sometimes had strange looking skeletons.  Richard III's deformity was probably the result of training with the sword from an early age.

Imagine what the men were like.


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Quote from: Gertrude on December 05, 2017, 10:09:32 AM
Imagine what the men were like.


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I would imagine that they were not too much unlike Infantry Soldiers in Airborne and light units today.  The stresses are similar, lots of walking, running, and carrying heavy loads.


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In just my lifetime even the conveniences have become more convenient.  Cars didn't always have power windows, power steering, power-assist brakes.  My first two motorcycles were kick-start.

I had a CT scan a couple weeks ago.  Surgeon pointed out my jaw is unusually asymmetric.  I asked if that's because I started violin at age six.  He confirmed that's quite possible, the only other case he has seen with that particular shape on the left side was another patient who started violin at an early age. 

Quote from: Gertrude on December 05, 2017, 10:09:32 AM
Imagine what the men were like.

The Neolithic Age ended only recently in parts of New Guinea.  I think that early 20th century photos of Papuans probably show the typical builds of Neolithic peoples in other parts of the world.

On janesoceania dot com there is a photo with the title "Papua New Guinea natives and turtle" that shows some robust Papuan men.

Quote from: Deborah on December 05, 2017, 08:05:06 AM
Neolithic women were probably a lot stronger than you

By: Claire Maldarelli

http://t.cn/RYEsIVx

It turns out that the average Neolithic women (those living from 7,400-7,000 years ago) had leg strength about on par with collegiate rowers, but arm bones that were 11 to 16 percent stronger than the rowers, and about 30 percent stronger than a typical college student (at Cambridge, at least).

See also: Bone Study Reveals Why You Would Not Want to Arm Wrestle a Neolithic Woman

By: Sarah Sloat

http://t.cn/RYnvh6U

The team of archeologists and anthropologists report that women who lived in Central Europe approximately 7,000 years ago had stronger upper arms than living women — even today's serious female university athletes.
——————————————————————
I just found this interesting.  Women are naturally predisposed to be on average a lot stronger than people commonly believe.  The weakness that people expect of women is actually something societally and self imposed.



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I think maybe through time and evolution of society, men began seeking women that were more petite.  For probably a number of reasons.  Is it in their minds eye of beauty or is it for an easier ability to dominate.  It would be easy to believe the latter.  Men didn't like that amazon women could stand their ground.  Evolution plays a roll in creating pretty and delicate daughters from women who were chosen because they were pretty and delicate.  And now most women have dictated their lives around beauty.  Well.... I understand, society thinks this is good thing, and I do want to be pretty also.
Hugs, Jessica 💁‍♀️

Well this was just about the women right? I would say that men and women have always be relative to size and strength as we are today. Hell the women back then were probably a lot stronger than a strong man today. It is called environmental circumstances and evolution and the way they lived life. Back then pretty much everyone walked and with nomadic cultures they moved everything without the help of Motor vehicles. Now we don't walk much, we drive cars. We go to the grocery store to hunt unless hunting is a hobby and so on. We drink water that has been purified so if we go into the woods and drink from a stream or lake or pond then we get sick. Mankind back then did not have the luxury of Evian. So what may kill us today may have not back then.

You know how the world changes and I am almost fifty and see the changes. It really is changing fast. I remember not having a cell phone and now you can't even find a payphone hardly. I remember my first cellphone and it cost about 5 dollars per minute. Now my smart phone fits in the palm of my hand and the calls are unlimited. During the time of the Roman Empire which the would get pretty gay in the bath houses. The women used to shave everything and they had prostitutes but on the outposts and when the Barbarians would raid they would make fun of the women and the lack of body hair. So a lot of times it is not about society pushing but rather the culture that you live in. So it really isn't society's fault. I mean the whole reason why women shave their legs and underarms is because of the razor manufacturers in the twenties and the styles and shaming women for having body hair. That kind of took off world wide though. But that was the twenties around the time of globalization in it's infancy.

Everyone seems to want to blame society but without society and the changes of thought, we would still be beholden to cultures and cultural norms. Society is world wide, TV is world wide and yes porn is world wide and trans women are hot when it comes to the porn industry. Sorry to go into the sex thing but that is a basic human instinctual drive. 7,000 years ago it was for two purposes and that would have probably been for pleasure and securing the genetic line. Not too much different than today but it is more for pleasure and the popularity of trans porn tells me that more men are interested in trans women than what most will admit. Is this evolution too? Maybe. I do believe that masculinity craves femininity and vice versa. Now with cis women working and a lot of time making more or providing more for their family than their male partners that the male craves ultra femininity. What is more feminine than a trans woman? We embrace it and love it and not ashamed of it I have a lot of theories and experiences and pay attention to what I see around me but I won't go into all that.

But maybe just maybe we are seeing evolution at work. ??? Well now anyway.

I kind of went a little deeper off topic there. But humans will change according to their technology and how easy or hard survival is.

Quote from: Deborah on December 05, 2017, 10:24:36 AM
I would imagine that they were not too much unlike Infantry Soldiers in Airborne and light units today.  The stresses are similar, lots of walking, running, and carrying heavy loads.


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Probably more so.


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Then there are guys like magnus Samuelson who are strong and still can move well. Thing is, we become good at what we train at and not as good at what we don't. Strongmen don't run marathons, marathon runners can't do atlas stones. Even something like bowling requires certain muscles that aren't used the same elsewhere. It depends on what you need to accomplish.


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I expect that Neolithic people were built kind of like all purpose athletes rather than anything like bodybuilders.    They were probably lean but strong and not specialized in any one type of fitness over any other.


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I saw something that said puberty for modern women was coming at a much younger age. Apparently it used to be delayed until the late teens because food was somewhat restricted and without sufficient fat, the body delayed puberty. We also see  that today where women who are physically active have irregular periods. It's possible that Neolithic women are somewhat like FTMs on puberty blockers gaining the extra growth and ending up with a somewhat more masculine frame.

Quote from: Deborah on December 05, 2017, 06:08:59 PM
I expect that Neolithic people were built kind of like all purpose athletes rather than anything like bodybuilders.    They were probably lean but strong and not specialized in any one type of fitness over any other.


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Probably, but I would add they were adapted to their environment, which can vary.


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"Neolithic women were probably a lot stronger than you"

Yeah, but smell isn't everything!  :laugh:

<running away>

Quote from: Jessica on December 05, 2017, 11:29:08 AM
I think maybe through time and evolution of society, men began seeking women that were more petite.  For probably a number of reasons.  Is it in their minds eye of beauty or is it for an easier ability to dominate.  It would be easy to believe the latter.  Men didn't like that amazon women could stand their ground.  Evolution plays a roll in creating pretty and delicate daughters from women who were chosen because they were pretty and delicate.  And now most women have dictated their lives around beauty.  Well.... I understand, society thinks this is good thing, and I do want to be pretty also.
Hugs, Jessica [emoji136]‍♀️

I read that sociology-economics factors in. The wealthier couples had more differential in height while poor folks tended to be closer in height. Also, the idea of sharing the same bed for sleep is more of a lower economic thing. Better off had separate sleeping arrangements.


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There's a few gals around town that cause me to ponder if the Neolithic age actually ever did end

We don't have to wonder how the physiques of neolithic people appeared.  Pristine stone age agricultural societies existed in Brazil and New Guinea until at least the 1960s (I think that remaining uncontacted tribes in Brazil are more like refugees than societies).  Just look in old issues of National Geographic.  The agricultural Native Americans in Brazil seemed to be taller and more robust than some that existed just by hunting and gathering, going by an article about tribes relocated (not "cleansed" or colonised?) to the Xingu National Park (later called Xingu Indigenous Park).

Old photos on this website show some seriously sturdy Papuans:

shijilgurukkal.blogspot dot co dot uk/2010/10/papua-new-guinea.html

I can't link directly until I'm Family.  Remember to replace " dot co dot uk" with ".co.uk".

I can't speak for Americans but the men are somewhat sturdier than the average British infantryman.  I think that the legs of some of the women are also sturdier than those of the average British infantryman.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 05, 2017, 08:34:53 PM
"Neolithic women were probably a lot stronger than you"

Yeah, but smell isn't everything!  :laugh:

<running away>

I love this. I am actually LOL instead of just the emoji.

Thank you Devlyn for bringing a smile on my face today with your post. :-* they were probably a lot harrier too and since Summer's Eve had not been invented yet then Jesus the poor men. :'(

But really a good one there. ;D

Quote from: V M on December 06, 2017, 07:55:30 AM
There's a few gals around town that cause me to ponder if the Neolithic age actually ever did end

30 years ago I was working out at the gym doing triceps extensions on a lat bar and this chick comes over and in a baritone asks if she could cut in. I swear she had a deeper voice than me and what looked like a shaved face. She must have been on steroids as she was well built for a woman and my guess was CIS, but the roids masculinized her. I was taken aback at first, but said sure...


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Quote from: Gertrude on December 06, 2017, 03:33:09 PM
30 years ago I was working out at the gym doing triceps extensions on a lat bar and this chick comes over and in a baritone asks if she could cut in. I swear she had a deeper voice than me and what looked like a shaved face. She must have been on steroids as she was well built for a woman and my guess was CIS, but the roids masculinized her. I was taken aback at first, but said sure...


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Female body builders kind of freak me out. I also can't imagine a cis woman being so obsessed with building  muscles that she would take steroids knowing they would make her look masculine.

Quote from: Julia1996 on December 06, 2017, 04:31:52 PM
Female body builders kind of freak me out. I also can't imagine a cis woman being so obsessed with building  muscles that she would take steroids knowing they would make her look masculine.

Me Too Julia. But hey, whatever butters someone's biscuit. It is the same with tattoos especially on the face and OMG the whites of the eyes even. I mean I pierced my own ears with rubbing alcohol as well as vodka, boiling water, a pair of vice grips and a sewing needle. The vodka was for me and the rubbing alcohol was for sterilization and the boiling water was for sterilization and the vice grips were brand new and spent the same five minutes in the boiling water. That didn't even hurt but I have two tats and they hurt and I was as drunk if not more than doing my ears. So body modification floats some people's boats and the same with body building But I am way too lazy and want to be way more feminine than having bigger muscles than my boyfriend. Actually guy body builders kind of turn me off too. :embarrassed:

I would rather my BF have a 30 pack instead of a 6 pack. ;) Well not too big but not all swollen up with muscles though but it all depends on the guy and other things besides body. But I think way back then even 5 year olds were probably stronger than men and women in Modernity now. :D

 :police:

Let us think carefully about posting comments about not liking others. Some people may not like us and we tend to get offended by that.

Regard and accept others as you wish to be accepted and regarded is the key in my opinion.

Quote from: Kendra on December 05, 2017, 11:11:35 AM
In just my lifetime even the conveniences have become more convenient.  Cars didn't always have power windows, power steering, power-assist brakes.  My first two motorcycles were kick-start.

I had a CT scan a couple weeks ago.  Surgeon pointed out my jaw is unusually asymmetric.  I asked if that's because I started violin at age six.  He confirmed that's quite possible, the only other case he has seen with that particular shape on the left side was another patient who started violin at an early age.

My left middle finger is cocked to the left more than the one on the right hand, from playing too much guitar/bass guitar in my teen years, I'm sure.  There are plenty of instances where musical instruments can mould bodies over time, it is constant stress on the body after all.

Geez, popsci.com is just unreadable any more, I couldn't read the text owing to all the ads they were trying to shove in my face.  The 2nd link is the same thing, I assume.  It's bad writing - are Cambridge rowers by definition male?  Help me out here.  They use the word "swole" to describe these Neolithic women so this is directed at a UK audience, I'm guessing.

TG researcher/writer Anne Bolyn, whose 1980s book In Search Of Eve put to rest the academic notion that transwomen were cookie cutter housefrauen, later took up bodybuilding; her comments about lifters are interesting, that women can be ripped and still maintain their femininity, up to a certain point, which parallels how TG people's identifiable gender can be in flux.

Quote from: Cindy on December 07, 2017, 03:17:01 PM
:police:

Let us think carefully about posting comments about not liking others. Some people may not like us and we tend to get offended by that.

Regard and accept others as you wish to be accepted and regarded is the key in my opinion.

Sorry Cindy. :embarrassed:

To me it is not as much about disliking the person Because I have friends with tats on their faces and it still kind of freaks me out sometimes. As a matter of fact one is a really good friend. Hell I know I freak some people out myself and one was my mom. :P

But I want to make one thing very clear and that is that I do not judge. And another thing is that I don't pick friends by looks, sexual orientations, gender identities or anything else other than personality and compatibility.

I mean I have to hire drivers from time to time and I can't discriminate. Hell I won't discriminate as long as they drive like they should legally and safely and they don't discriminate as long as I pay them. So really I can't discriminate.

But I will say that while I was driving there were some drivers that freaked me out and then some that grossed me out. The ones that freaked me out were the guys that always got really close and touched more than women do in an innocent way. Invading my personal space if we aren't in an intimate relationship or close friends really freak me out and me being big mouthed as I am I would ask them if they wanted to talk to me or date me. I was kind of surprised at some of the answers I got. ??? When I first started driving I ran with another driver from the same company from some Poduck town in Ohio all the way to LA. Then he went to his delivery and I went to mine and we both laid over in Ontario and by chance met back up in the Truckstop.  We went to see a movie together as drivers but the five days we laid over we became a little more. But he kind of freaked me out a little bit because he was all "touchy feely". I found out why. I mean I had the hair, the earrings, the jeans, the shoes and all but nothing totally telling though. this was in '93 and our third day laying over he told me he was gay and asked me if I was and I told him I was straight but "trannny" and it went from there for a year and a half. But he really kind of freaked me out in the beginning by invading my "personal space" and touching and getting close when we stopped and went "off duty".

But no some people do still freak me out and I don't judge them but they still may make me a little uncomfortable. Sometimes I go out with the "girls" and that is cis, effeminate gay and transwomen. Someone buys me a drink and then wants to say high and I tell them that I am trans then I expect them to be sort of freaked out. I don't expect them to get violent of offending and I will buy them a drink for pay back. Sometimes it is hard to tell with alcohol goggles and in the darkness of a club or bar but being totally open in a sort of accepting place they say cool but thanks but they aren't into trans women. Maybe I am lucky or just live in the right places and met the right people instead of the ->-bleeped-<-s out there but... It always seemed that the guy that bought me the drink in the beginning had a friend that was interested and or curious.

So to me it is more about compatibility of personalities to be friends but... there are some friends that have "freaked me out" in the beginning buds of friendship or other "relations". There are some things about people that freak me out but... The important thing is becoming friends with the person and looking past those things. I have but it still kind of "freaks me out". I think it is just human nature. And OMG we have our admirers being MTF. It may freak some people out but turn others into "freaks" both male and female. :embarrassed: Sorry about that last line though. But there is a difference between being "freaked out" and being repulsed by someone. It is hard to explain but some people I just don't like and that includes other trans people. I tole' ya' I don't discriminate. ;) You always have to see people for who they are and not what they are because it is human nature to be so called freaked out by other people that are sometimes way different.

In all honesty I think we are "freaked out" because it is something we would not do. Another thing that kind of freaks me out is  the stretched earlobes. I have friends that do that though. It freaks me out because that is something I would never do for me. I won't let it stop me from being friends with someone that does it or even a potential future lover that does it but it is something I would not do so it kind of does freak me out when they leave the "disks" out. But then again someone may not like me while wearing four inch hoops. ??? Being a Metal Musician I run into a lot of people that have the face tats, the long hair, the shaved head, the long beards and all in between. Also all the gender identities, sexual identities and other identities that aren't even known. I own trucks and that is my bread and butter but playing guitar is my love from hair metal in the eighties to even the dark and satanic metal today.

But my whole point is that I am the owner of me and what I choose to look like and think is the way I "butter my biscuit" and that is up to me. If it freaks someone else out then oh well. >:-) My mom was a hard core Pentecostal in the eighties but she hated bands like Stryper and Petra that played and sang the same songs about the same god that her hymnals did in church. I have played these same songs and did a gig in a Christian rock band but that didn't last too long because I drink too much and smoke too much and don't go to church every Sunday if at all. :embarrassed: That is so funny because the same band could not do the Christian Metal thing commercially and keep calling me to play because they went the other way now.

Long story short but I guess it ended up being longer than shorter, no one has the right to judge anyone else. There are things we may not like about people and we should be honest and then accepting and not judge because of what we may not like or agree with. When we can do that then we are human in the total sense of the word. And I am no different than anyone else before I sound like I am so special. There are still some people that I do not like but it is not because of looks or styles or anything other than compatibilities of personalities.

God, I talk too much. :embarrassed: I just hope everyone can sort of understand what I said though and Cindy feel free to edit what I said because of my rambling. :embarrassed: