Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know CIS women are not supposed to Douche but at 5 1/2 months I'm wondering about continuing to Douche. Research indicates we seem to produce all the normal female bacteria except the most important one, Lactobacilli which really keeps a Vagina healthy.

I'm Dilating twice a day. My doctor recommends douching once or twice a week but when I do, afterwards I start to produce some really yucky aromas for the next few days!! Aside from douching, I really try to keep clean down there everyday :-( 

Douching "appears" to be killing off the good flora and fauna in my Vagina and it takes a few days to build back up again and kill off the bad smelling bacteria, but then its time to Douche again. :-( Any thoughts on this. . .

I haven't douched in years and have no odor down there. When I dilate I check the smell to verify  I am not developing an infection and it smells like a mix of the rubber used to make my dilator and the lubricating jelly. I might reconsider if I were sexually active but my current opinion is that it's not required.

There is also the question of what are you using in the douche solution? In the old days, a touch of white vinegar in water was recommended. If you are using something that might kill the bacteria, that could be the problem.

I have a side stream om my shower. I use it when I shower to clean the outside and direct water into the vaginal cavity. I never used anything other than water at the direction of my doctor.

Thanks for the comments.  I think I figured out that my labia are covering up my vaginal opening a little more than they used to when I'm standing and the spray from my hand-held shower head wasn't getting it as clean as in the past.  Just needed to work at it a bit more and the aroma is going away. . . :-)

Quote from: Gail20 on December 31, 2017, 01:20:52 PM
I know CIS women are not supposed to Douche but at 5 1/2 months I'm wondering about continuing to Douche. Research indicates we seem to produce all the normal female bacteria except the most important one, Lactobacilli which really keeps a Vagina healthy.

I'm Dilating twice a day. My doctor recommends douching once or twice a week but when I do, afterwards I start to produce some really yucky aromas for the next few days!! Aside from douching, I really try to keep clean down there everyday :-( 

Douching "appears" to be killing off the good flora and fauna in my Vagina and it takes a few days to build back up again and kill off the bad smelling bacteria, but then its time to Douche again. :-( Any thoughts on this. . .

I haven't douched in eons ... like decades really.  I've only had a raging vaginal yeast infection & uti once in my life, and believe me I knew without a doubt I had one.  Peeing razor blades & fire isn't exactly enjoyable.  If I start getting an 'itch' I might use vagisil or increase my intake of nonsugary vanilla yogurt.. or even lactobacillus pills if I really feel the need.   I've even taken antibiotics and the vagina seems to have an impervious flora/fauna of its own.  Then again I actually produce natural lubrication in there too, so maybe that's what keeps it healthy.   I'm in a world of my own strangeness, but in the  end I think its healthier not to douche unless you actually have active problems. 

Remember that not everybody has had the same sort of vaginoplasty.  Cis-women have vaginal mucosa which is self lubricating/cleaning.  Many post op trans females end up with a dry vaginal epithelium (skin) because of the source material (e.g. scrotal skin) used to make the cavity.  Pay attention to the maintenance recommended by your surgeon, especially early on. 

I used 10% vinegar for the first couple of months at the direction of my surgeon, adding some lactobacillus to the solution as that just seemed smart.

The more recent studies of MTF microflora have found that we can establish the lactobacilli that is healthy and I think that's what I've got, however I've also checked pH and that remains stubbornly neutral or slightly basic, pH = 7.5-8, rather than the preferred range around 4 or lower. I will eventually talk to my surgeon and gyn about this but for now I'm not worried about it.

One response above says that lactobacilli are something natal females create, that's incorrect, like the bacteria in our guts we get these from outside and living healthy includes having correct microflora.

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 06, 2018, 08:30:01 AM
adding some lactobacillus to the solution.

And how do you add this???

Quote from: rmaddy on January 05, 2018, 10:10:06 PM
Many post op trans females end up with a dry vaginal epithelium (skin) because of the source material (e.g. scrotal skin) used to make the cavity.

I believe it's most commonly penile skin use to form the vagina. Scrotal skin would be the Thai non-inversion technique, and I think that usually self lubricating. I've no idea if penile inversion is.

Quote from: Gail20 on January 07, 2018, 01:55:00 PM


And how do you add this???

You should be able to find probiotic capsules at any whole foods market and likely any supplier of holistic supplements etc. I just pulled apart the capsule and added the contents to my vinegar/water solution.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 07, 2018, 02:00:06 PM
I believe it's most commonly penile skin use to form the vagina. Scrotal skin would be the Thai non-inversion technique, and I think that usually self lubricating. I've no idea if penile inversion is.

I don't think this is right. Skin is for the most part skin and according to my surgeon, while the vaginal lining is different from other skin, it's not mucosa.

A few weeks post op, I lost the outer layer of what had been penile and scrotal skin (yes the pi technique uses some scrotal skin) leaving relatively self-lubricating skin. All that has happened is the outer layer is gone, it's purpose is protective and isn't needed for internal skin.

There is a huge difference between vaginal lining and e.g. rectal mucosa, for instance the latter is far less durable which is why the risk of HIV transmission is so much higher for receptive anal penetration than for receptive vaginal.a

I don't know if the skin has different properties, but I have heard quite a few Suporn women say they are self lubricating. I don't know what proportion it is or how it compares to penile inversion.

However penile inversion primarily uses the penile skin to line the vagina (hence the name) and where its inadequate supplements it with scrotal skin. Suporn's non-inversion technique is the other way around, using scrotal skin to line the vagina and the penile skin for the labia. There's a (little) bit of info about it in this pdf (page 177) where there's an interview with Suporn.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/Joped/Suporn2015.pdf

I have only ever experienced vaginal dryness with men who are bad in bed. Otherwise I range from "moist" when unaroused, to full on covering them with my vaginal secretes during intercourse. Never used lube for anything other than dilation. I'm a Suporn girl.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 07, 2018, 04:45:59 PM
I don't know if the skin has different properties, but I have heard quite a few Suporn women say they are self lubricating. I don't know what proportion it is or how it compares to penile inversion.

I'm self lubricating at only 8 months post-op, not as much so as some natal females I've had sex with, more than others. The primary mechanism is very simple, arousal creates increased blood flow to the aroused area causing moisture to exude from the skin. How much depends on the day etc however I've been able to dilate up to Ms Orange with only a bit of saliva to wet the outer labia for insertion of Ms Green.

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 07, 2018, 05:14:52 PM
How much depends on the day etc however I've been able to dilate up to Ms Orange with only a bit of saliva to wet the outer labia for insertion of Ms Green.

Do you do that just to find out if you can, or is it just that easy?

To see if I could, I've done it only a couple of times and on one other occasion clearly seemed to not be wet - or relaxed - enough for it to feel easy. In fact at this point, being tense / stressed has far more effect on the ease of dilation than lubrication.

I suppose I should see if I can go without lube more often, it certainly takes more time that way but at this point I mainly dilate daily as a pleasure ritual, my doc's schedule would have had me at every other day since the 6 months point :-).

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 07, 2018, 02:08:29 PM
You should be able to find probiotic capsules at any whole foods market and likely any supplier of holistic supplements etc. I just pulled apart the capsule and added the contents to my vinegar/water solution.

I would think that the Vinegar would kill off the good probiotic/good bacteria??

Actually the reverse, 10% vinegar is definitely good to use when you have bv or a yeast infection because the low pH kills those off well and is relatively good to lactobacillus, which is what's responsible for the low pH of the healthy vagina.

I'm not saying I advise douching at all when everything is well, but while my doc was telling me to use vinegar douche every 1-2 weeks, I added probiotics to help things along. ** I think didn't need to, it didn't result in any change in my schedule or feeling so I think I'd established a heathy lactobacillus microflora already but figured why not use the opportunity to add more?

Big thank you!!! Cleared that all up for me. . .  :-)

I never douched, not even once. My BF almost made me because he was there when the doctor told me I should and gave a demo on it lol but I didn't and other than some gran. tissue, I have zero issues and at my last appt. which was at four months, Dr. Rumer said it healed perfectly and looks great. She wants to take pictures for other patients. It does look good, so I'm super satisfied.

So...don't do it, when you go though with it; don't douche. It seems so, yuck.

Quote from: Spunky Brewster on January 14, 2018, 09:46:25 AM
I never douched, not even once. My BF almost made me because he was there when the doctor told me I should and gave a demo on it lol but I didn't and other than some gran. tissue, I have zero issues and at my last appt. which was at four months, Dr. Rumer said it healed perfectly and looks great. She wants to take pictures for other patients. It does look good, so I'm super satisfied.

So...don't do it, when you go though with it; don't douche. It seems so, yuck.

Which surgical technique did you have?