Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My question is if a post SRS individual lands themselves in jail somehow, what cell are they gonna end up in M or F

Kinda a two parter also,

What if they havent had SRS but present 100% as a woman or man

Also If you have been on HRT for years and you end up in Jail or Prison for any amount of time are you denied prescriptions?


This is purely hypothetical, Im not in trouble LOL!

If you haven't got SRS, better hope to go a white collar prison and not do a long prison time.
They'll send you to a male prison (I believe) and they'll need to isolate you 24h a day.

Jail, probably your own cell until a hearing and/or bail. prison? that can be really bad.

I have known of instances where T individuals have been mixed in the general population "by mistake" and it never turns out well.

At least in Montreal, I heard they put some pre-op into the male jail... and let men have sex with them...

If you are pre op, it will depend on where you are arrested. Every County or State will have different rules on how they handle trans people. If you are post op you will be sent to the womans side. I don't know what happens with F to M.
Sheila

This kinda thing makes me sick, I have no plans to go to jail but to think if I did they would put me with men.   Thats sick >:(

Quote from: Sheila on December 17, 2007, 01:25:00 PM
If you are pre op, it will depend on where you are arrested. Every County or State will have different rules on how they handle trans people. If you are post op you will be sent to the womans side. I don't know what happens with F to M.
Sheila

The most reliable answer I can give you for pre-op is to have a "carry letter" and get a lawyer right away.  It's not a very good answer but it's all that I have.

I am pre-op and when I began my RLE I not only had a carry letter, I also petitioned the court to change my name (I M to F in that regard) **and** to allow me to use the gender marker "F" on my driver's license.  Both petitions were granted.

Post-op, a woman is a woman is a woman.  Just be sure to have your birth certificate changed as soon after surgery as you can.

I hope that this helps.

Wing Walker

yea, don't go to jail. and if you do, watch out for "Bubba"
i would assume where they put you would be based on either your drivers license or birth certificate.

Quote from: natalie on December 17, 2007, 10:20:32 PM

yea, don't go to jail. and if you do, watch out for "Bubba"
i would assume where they put you would be based on either your drivers license or birth certificate.

I believe that is so, Natalie.  A carry letter doesn't hurt, either.

Wing Walker

I don't think a carry letter will help if a TS has to go to court just to continue
getting her hormones in a male jail (while all other inmates get their necessary meds).

I think getting a good lawyer is the only good solution and it certainly
doesn't garantee you to go to a female prison, just better conditions
in a male one.

How you are housed is different by location, cities and states have their own code to follow.

And I'm not sure that being on the woman's side of the prison would be any better.  Face it, nice people do not end up in prison.

Say nothing other than, "I want to talk with my attorney."  And then, STFU.  You think that you might be able to talk your way out of it.  You can't.  Most people when they begin talking to the police only dig themselves in deeper. 

I agree, say no or yes only, and ask for your attorney and to be mirandized

I don't even say 'yes' or 'no' - they have my ID, that gives them all the info they need.  I just have to verify that's it correct.  Just keeping asking to talk to a lawyer.  Once you say that, they are supposed to be quite, but they tend not to.  And, that STFU goes for everyone, the girl taking your photo or rolling your prints, the person in the holding cell with you, everyone.  Say nothing.  Assume that everything is being taped.

It's your responsibility as a citizen to know your rights and to see that they are followed.  The police have another job.  And that's not it.

Yeah so I got Pushed down once, and beat with a night stick once cause I kept telling the cop over and over "I want to talk to my lawyer", he ignored me and just kept saying "so who was driving the car", and I just kept saying "I wanna talk to my lawyer", finally on one last attempt to get it through his thick skull I just looked at him and "zipped" my mouth shut, by dragging my fingers across my lips and staring at him in a zipping motion.

Then he pushed me down (on cement), I tried to get up and got pushed down like four times as he was trying to put handcuffs on he pulled out his nightstick and hit me 3 times, before the cuffs were put on.

Long story short, I ended up giving him my license and he wrote the ticket, and let me go.

Ticket gets dropped in court?????

Mara

True story I was there and it happened to me.

Never give attitude to a cop even if your right.
If he pushes you to the ground, stay there.
The number of peopple who's been beat by stupid
policemen is incalculable.

Did you report it? I don't know what you did, but you should have gotten his name and badge number and reported the incident. Never back talk a cop or go against what he/she says. Take his name and badge number and report him.
Sheila

Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 17, 2007, 07:32:48 AM
My question is if a post SRS individual lands themselves in jail somehow, what cell are they gonna end up in M or F

Kinda a two parter also,

What if they havent had SRS but present 100% as a woman or man

Also If you have been on HRT for years and you end up in Jail or Prison for any amount of time are you denied prescriptions?


This is purely hypothetical, Im not in trouble LOL!

unfortunately I can tell you  from experience If you have male equipment you will be housed with males and VISA VERSA NO MATTER HOW YOU GOT IT GENETICS OR SRS .   I was however the first trans girl to be house in the female dormitory at Path Ways San Jose , ca a drug program. That a nother story lol...



Sincerely,
Kristina


O ps.you would be housed with others of your type and then you have company or: child molesters snitches and gang drop outs,,,,, nice huh dont get into trouble sweeties !!!! ****smiles****

According to what I've heard about here, is that if you're pre-op you go to a male prison, and post-op a female prison.

mara, my opinion is basically the same as some of the other girls and guys here. where i live, (my dad is a retired Corrections Officer), they throw the guys in with guys in prison, and girls with girls, so far i don't believe they have had any t people to deal with. but if just arrested and taken to jail they throw you in by yourself as it causes less problems for them. to asnwer your second question, according to the Standards of Care, an SRS patient cannot be denied their hormones even after being incarcerated because it creates a psychiatric difficulty for the patient and everyone else in the facility. i personally know that none of us (that aren't attracted to guys) don't want to end up in a cell with bubba.

SOC is only a guideline for psychologists, prisons not obliged to read it or follow anything in it.

So, as everyone said, the only solution is stay away from jail.

Quote from: Jessica G on December 17, 2007, 09:58:50 PM
This kinda thing makes me sick, I have no plans to go to jail but to think if I did they would put me with men.   Thats sick >:(

One of the first thing my therapist told me was to be sure not to do anything that would land me in jail.

Jail doesn't seem like an 'option-of-choice' for 'locale in which to transition.'

If I had to pick a place for transition, jail would not make my Top 10,000 list.

Stay outta 'going to jail' situations.

 :D :D Those would be second on my list, Ash!!!

This reminds me of Bean: The Movie. Main character: "I'll go to jail! My daughter will become a prostitute! I'll wind up in a cell with Butch McDick!"

As an FTM, I'd prefer to go to a womens' prison. At least there, I wouldn't have any chance of being raped, and strength-wise I'd be able to defend myself. (And, hey, what guy hasn't dreamed of being the only guy locked up with a ton of girls?) I'm not sure how the law would treat me, though - I've had chest surgery and almost two years of testosterone. I sure wouldn't want to be in prison with the dudes!

I suspect that, regardless of hormones or chest surgery, they'd just look at whether you have an innie or an outie and they'd house you with people with matching parts. So it means most transguys being put in with women. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, except that I read of one case where they picked up two transguys on traffic warrants, made them wear women's underwear and clothing, and basically humiliated them.

So yeah, stay out of jail if you can. Even for transguys, it's not an all-inclusive expense-paid holiday to land of the babes.

Dennis

As an FTM, I'd prefer to go to a womens' prison. At least there, I wouldn't have any chance of being raped
NOT TRUE, without getting too graphic, lets just say, broomstick and leave it at that.

strength-wise I'd be able to defend myself.
Careful there too, some of the girls in the California system, they get pretty tough, and even if you could do it one on one, could you take on 5 or 8 at a time?

Dennis is right, best to stay out the jail situation if you can.

QuoteAs an FTM, I'd prefer to go to a womens' prison. At least there, I wouldn't have any chance of being raped
NOT TRUE, without getting too graphic, lets just say, broomstick and leave it at that.

strength-wise I'd be able to defend myself.
Careful there too, some of the girls in the California system, they get pretty tough, and even if you could do it one on one, could you take on 5 or 8 at a time?

Dennis is right, best to stay out the jail situation if you can.

Scawy stuff. You're right, but it'd probably be better than being a woman in either prison (male or female). And, of course, jail in general is not a good place to be.

Quote from: redfish on January 14, 2008, 01:25:01 PM

Does anyone know where a pre-op would be placed if institutionalized or put in an inpatient hospital for psychiatric reasons? Or does it vary based on the company running it?

Based on experience, you would be housed with those matching your lower half. However, usually wards aren't segregated by sex- just rooms. So you'd have a roommate, which sucks.

However, post transition (for me) I've been stuck with both women AND men, depending on how much information I give them or what they've already got on me. I don't tell them readily that  was born female, but if they already have it in their records they will put me with a female roommate. If I'm in a hospital I was not at pre-transition, I get a male roommate unless for some reason they strip search me (which has never happened).

Makes absolutely no sense, honestly. Though I don't blame them for being confused- I'm double covered by insurance. One insurance has me down as female, the other male. *shrug* Both of them have my legal (male) name, though.

Extremely long story short, my incredibly homophobic sted-dad accepted me as his daughter, UNTIL my Mom divorced him and he stood to lose everything (which she owned anyway).  So the day he was served he went straight to the courthouse and filed an domestic violence warrant on me, knowing they would house me with the males.  (The day she told him she was leaving he told us he would do this, and NO, I never laid a finger on him.)  They came to arrest me at a friends house, but luckily the deputy was somewhat liberal minded, so we called our very influential attorney, who called the sheriff, who just happens to know my Mom, and they agreed to simply book me, not hold me in a cell, and let me go on an appearance bond.  Otherwise, the deputy was in the process of taking me to the county jail to be put in holding cells with some very rough males.  As it was, they made noises at me through the bars as I walked through.  The deputy did nothing.  Eight months later, the charges were dropped after the court (and his attorney) realized what a hideous man this was after all.

Worst experience of my life.

Quote from: amy2003 on February 26, 2008, 09:55:35 PM
Extremely long story short, my incredibly homophobic sted-dad accepted me as his daughter, UNTIL my Mom divorced him and he stood to lose everything (which she owned anyway).  So the day he was served he went straight to the courthouse and filed an domestic violence warrant on me, knowing they would house me with the males.  (The day she told him she was leaving he told us he would do this, and NO, I never laid a finger on him.)  They came to arrest me at a friends house, but luckily the deputy was somewhat liberal minded, so we called our very influential attorney, who called the sheriff, who just happens to know my Mom, and they agreed to simply book me, not hold me in a cell, and let me go on an appearance bond.  Otherwise, the deputy was in the process of taking me to the county jail to be put in holding cells with some very rough males.  As it was, they made noises at me through the bars as I walked through.  The deputy did nothing.  Eight months later, the charges were dropped after the court (and his attorney) realized what a hideous man this was after all.

Worst experience of my life.

Your step-dad is E V I L !  >:(      Probably already know that.

Quote from: Keira on December 18, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
Never give attitude to a cop even if your right.
If he pushes you to the ground, stay there.
The number of peopple who's been beat by stupid
policemen is incalculable.

What if we're talking Rodney King here?

We had a pre-op gal arrested in Johannesburg in November last year for - get this, attempting to rape a streetkid. She's been on HRT for two years, so I can't see how that would even be physically possible. Interestingly enough, there's been a rash of these "attempted rapes" usually involving "undesirables", and always the same busy-body town-counsel wannabe and her decency police.

Circumstances aside though, when she was arrested, the police were not gentle with her. If you are in a situation where you are in fear of your health or even your life, what do you do?

technically no... they go by your legal gender....
if your legally female... even preop (yo can be in the UK) then its off to join the cast of badgirls for you....
if not, very much screwed....

one of the reasons i keep my nose so clean, other than wanting to be the other side of the arresting fence....

Tbh when im a policeofficer, if i came accross a transperson, id most likely try to do my best to keep them safe, or in the right cells. Though if said transperson, whatever gender, has done something paticularly nasty, i may forget that little compassion.
R >:D

Quote from: lady amarant on February 27, 2008, 12:18:09 AM
... attempting to rape a streetkid. She's been on HRT for two years, so I can't see how that would even be physically possible.

FYI, I am going on four years on HRT and I have not lost an ounce of function.  My sex drive has sometimes been non-existent, but if I wanted to get it up I could.  Oh, and this does not necessarily make me happy, by the way.

Amy

Quote from: amy2003 on February 27, 2008, 07:31:48 AM

Quote from: lady amarant on February 27, 2008, 12:18:09 AM
... attempting to rape a streetkid. She's been on HRT for two years, so I can't see how that would even be physically possible.

FYI, I am going on four years on HRT and I have not lost an ounce of function.  My sex drive has sometimes been non-existent, but if I wanted to get it up I could.  Oh, and this does not necessarily make me happy, by the way.

Amy

Point taken, though things that are coming out around the case are fishy, to say the least, not least of which, two other cases, in the same area and involving same said councilwoman, one against the owner of a gay club. All involving street-kids.

GenderDynamix, a South African trans-activist group, managed to get her legal representation after the court appointed attorney refused to help her get out of general holding. For a bit of perspective on the case as well: She was denied bail and spent over two months in holding. That same week we had a couple of murder suspects out on bail of R500 each (which is about $75).

HRT doesn't stop the possibility at all to get an erection,
it only effects libido, the desire to have sex.

If the desire to have sex is mediated by something else,
say a mental ilness, even low T won't stop the
person from committing the act. That's why chemical
castration is not always seen as an effective means
of stopping sexual criminals.

Quote from: Renate on February 27, 2008, 05:18:50 AM

Quote from: Rachael on February 27, 2008, 02:46:45 AM
Though if said transperson, whatever gender, has done something paticularly nasty, i may forget that little compassion.

Great Rachael!  Now you're consolidating your future roles: peace officer, judge and jury.

There are enough policeman out there right now who consider just being transsexual "particularly nasty".

Renate

Ill point out now, that anyone committing a henous disgusting crime will get rough treatment, if they dont want to be treated like a disgusting animal, dont do something that makes you one.... trans or not, black, white, christian, jew, muslim, disabled or not, i dont care, if you say, rape a child, or murder a pensioner, or commit spousal abuse, you will get absolutely no sympathy from me, utter professionalism, but absolutely nothing more. People like that make me sick.
So if your trans and do that, thinking trans will get you leniencey like any other '[percived' sympathy point, DONT.

R >:D