Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm starting a list of people, both alive and historical who either were/are or likely were(in the case of historical people) Trans.-Identified.

I thought this would be interesting, as well as useful for sharing with people.

Top of my list:

Eddie Izzard! Yeah! Go Eddie!
An "Executive" ->-bleeped-<-.
Comedian Genius.
This guy (as he prefers to be called a male Lesbian) rocks. Really Hilarious. Check out his "dressed to kill" show. It rocks.

Others: There is a current star in a TV show that is Trans. I don't know her name.

Then there is Ru Paul of course.

But what about others?

Apparently there is at least one unidentified congressman who is likely trans. but in the closet.

And historically? That would be interesting.
Everybody loves to talk about Alexander the Great.
He was at least Bi. for sure.

Anybody know of any others?

Who were/are or likely were/are?

http://www.computerconsultingservices.net/mensworld/images/FTMDoctors.htm

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TransMen.html

;)

tink :icon_chick:

Ohh, I know one of the women in Tinks second link. I've met Glenda Adams several times. Very nice person.

George Sand, although it's hard to say from 21st century perspective whether zie considered himself to be trans as we know it.

y2g

Who was George Sand?

James Curtis: f2m uk private gender therapist... (one of the only here)
Christine Jorgensen?
and isnt Eddie Izzard a CROSSDRESSER, not tv?
Sharon Cohen.... AKA, Dana International... the israeli eurovision winner...
R :police:

Quote from: Sarah on December 18, 2007, 12:57:51 AM
Who was George Sand?

from Wikipedia "Amantine Aurore Lucile Dupin, Baronne Dudevant (July 1, 1804 – June 8, 1876), best known by her pseudonym George Sand, was a French novelist and feminist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sand)

I'd also add to the list musician/composer Wendy Carlos.

y2g

Danielle Bunten Berry

Famous transpeople are...

Christine Jorgensen
April Ashley
Tula Cossey
Nadia Almed

And more here:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSgallery4.html

Quote from: y2gender on December 18, 2007, 06:46:33 AM

Quote from: Sarah on December 18, 2007, 12:57:51 AM
Who was George Sand?

from Wikipedia "Amantine Aurore Lucile Dupin, Baronne Dudevant (July 1, 1804 – June 8, 1876), best known by her pseudonym George Sand, was a French novelist and feminist."

y2g

Dont make her trans...
it makes her a female author using a male pseudonym to get published in a time where men really were the only published authors...
R :police:

Oh shoot, I forgot to include Ann Coulter!  >:D

tink :icon_chick:

I think Ann Coulter would be infamous....
>:D

Quote from: Rachael on December 18, 2007, 10:39:21 AM
Dont make her trans...
it makes her a female author using a male pseudonym to get published in a time where men really were the only published authors...
R :police:

If she'd only used a pseudonym to be published, I'd agree that she wasn't trans, however the more I find out about George Sand, the more it seems that male expression was truly part of hir gender. Hir relationship with Frederic Chopin intrigues me as well, zie was rather effeminate. Anyway, I can't say for sure what genders they really were, but they certainly don't seem like an average straight couple to me. 

y2g

If Donna Rose is on Lynn Conway's list, then I would add Mara Kiesling to your list.

I was rather amazed at how many of the people on those lists I know, have met or at least,  have corresponded with.  And what's really funny is that I know as many or more FtMs. 

Beverly

Harisu and Dana International instantly come to mind. Of course, I'm extremley jealous of them, but they also give me hope.

I'm famous! :)  (no, really, I am!)

It depends how you define fame, most of those mentioned
are not famous outside the TS community
except Harisu and Dana international, and a few others.

With time, I'm sure a REALLY famous, paris hilton level (she
has no talent, but she is FAMOUS) will appear.

Quote from: y2gender on December 18, 2007, 11:13:05 PM

Quote from: Rachael on December 18, 2007, 10:39:21 AM
Dont make her trans...
it makes her a female author using a male pseudonym to get published in a time where men really were the only published authors...
R :police:

If she'd only used a pseudonym to be published, I'd agree that she wasn't trans, however the more I find out about George Sand, the more it seems that male expression was truly part of hir gender. Hir relationship with Frederic Chopin intrigues me as well, zie was rather effeminate. Anyway, I can't say for sure what genders they really were, but they certainly don't seem like an average straight couple to me. 

y2g

does being effeminate and butch stop people being cisgender?
in that case a large number of L and G people arnt cisgender...
R :police:

Wendy Carlos is very famous, just very low key.  Money (huge piles of it, I'm sure in her case a mountain piled up the to sun) can buy you a lot of privacy.  You can be so rich that you can live on the down low, even when everyone knows.  She is just not famous for being trans, having done something else in her life to be really, really, famous (at least within the community of people who share her passion, music) for.

More famous transsexual people here:

http://www.karenserenity.com/OldSerenity/main.htm

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Rachael on December 19, 2007, 09:05:57 AM
does being effeminate and butch stop people being cisgender?

No, but by the standards of the day George Sand was way beyond butch. It's of course impossible to tell just what eir gender identity was (unless some spectacular new diaries or correspondence pops up), but it certainly seems possible e may have been some TG variant, be that CD or TS.

  Nfr

Quote from: Tink on December 19, 2007, 07:52:52 PM
More famous transsexual people here:

http://www.karenserenity.com/OldSerenity/main.htm

tink :icon_chick:

Thanks for the link. I met a guy who worked with Christine Jorgensen on Broadway. (I am an aspiring actor) He said she was a real sweetheart.

????Christine Beatty is "famous?"

The Roman Emperor Elagabalus (who reigned from 218 to 222 AD) was transgender and offered large amounts of money and also possibly half ofthe Roman Empire to anyone that could give him female genatalia. Due to this happening nearly 2000 years ago SRS was not possible.

Berleigh, thanks for supplying the link!

Elagabalus was just one in a long line of fantastically surreal Roman emperors.  He was the talk of the town in his day.  He was only emperor for four years, between the time he was 14-18, perhaps it was just teenage wasteland.  I mean if you are 17, and declaring yourself god you have lots of issues.

Quote from: Tamara on December 23, 2007, 06:28:43 AM
The Roman Emperor Elagabalus (who reigned from 218 to 222 AD) was transgender and offered large amounts of money and also possibly half ofthe Roman Empire to anyone that could give him female genatalia. Due to this happening nearly 2000 years ago SRS was not possible.

LOL That rocks!

Great post!

ed wood of course, cross dresser, film maker and novelist.

Posted on: December 27, 2007, 09:14:02 PM

---

oh yeah, and jesus was an androgyne, as was buddah, God and Don Quixote.

yeah, but Sancho Panza, he was a man's man.

Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.

Little different.

What about Marilyn Manson?

Seems a little strange, but possibly Trans?

Quote from: Keira on December 19, 2007, 03:31:04 AM

It depends how you define fame, most of those mentioned
are not famous outside the TS community
except Harisu and Dana international, and a few others.

With time, I'm sure a REALLY famous, paris hilton level (she
has no talent, but she is FAMOUS) will appear.

Candis Cane, perhaps?

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.
Little different.

Not at all, he could well have been androgyne and done all that.

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.

Little different.

What about Marilyn Manson?

Seems a little strange, but possibly Trans?

can we stop saying anyone who looks androgynous is trans of some kind?
manson WAS married, recently divorced iirc... hes happily heterosexual, male, ROCKSTAR who happens to be a goth, and get off shocking people... this does not make him trans, i love how the trans community run around naming people as trans, or hey, they could be.... so could a LOT of people who dont have androgynous apearances... performers do things for acts...  this topic should stick to people who are KNOWN as trans, and famous, not randomly picking people who might be trans who are famous... this is probably how the Wakowski larry/lana BS started...
R :police:

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.

Little different.

What about Marilyn Manson?

Seems a little strange, but possibly Trans?

I thought Marilyn Manson was an American male gothic rock singer.

Marilyn Mason is not a real person.  Its an act.  Guess he thought that Brian Hugh Warner was not quite scary enough.  Though the act is designed to shock, in real life he is no more Goth than Liz Taylor.  In fact, Brian became a multi-millionaire by selling angst to teenagers, which as Bart Simpson once noted, was like "shooting fish in a barrel."  Brian -in real life -is a conservative, bourgeois guy with strong Republican leanings, who quasi-endorsed George W Bush in 2000.  Recently divorced because as he claims, his wife was expecting him to grow up, he is about to turn 39 and is currently boinking a barely-legal 19 year old.  Rock on.

exactly... this community is too quick to slap some makeup on someone and sign them up for the newsletter....
R

Quote from: Rachael on December 29, 2007, 06:08:09 PM
exactly... this community is too quick to slap some makeup on someone and sign them up for the newsletter....
R

What newsletter? I never got a newsletter. No tee shirt either. Bupkis, nada... >:D

Well... unless we can count tsuris, that I got plenty of  :P

Alice Cooper, another one doing it for shock, and Republican too.

y2g

Yeah but you never recieved that rulebook either - did you even sign that contract in your blood?

Quote from: Pica Pica on December 29, 2007, 01:05:40 PM

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.
Little different.

Not at all, he could well have been androgyne and done all that.

Sure, but historic accounts of his life don't really support that.

I suppose though. He was a prince though, and was very well cared for as far as beauty and asthetics are concerned.
I don't think that makes him androgyne though. I mean I just don't see any evidence of it. For well he could have been though, but as a historic figure there is no account supporting that as far as I know.

Posted on: December 29, 2007, 09:24:47 PM

---

Quote from: Rachael on December 29, 2007, 02:17:26 PM

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
Buddha was married, had a kid, then gave it up for a life of celibacy.

Little different.

What about Marilyn Manson?

Seems a little strange, but possibly Trans?

can we stop saying anyone who looks androgynous is trans of some kind?
manson WAS married, recently divorced iirc... hes happily heterosexual, male, ROCKSTAR who happens to be a goth, and get off shocking people... this does not make him trans, i love how the trans community run around naming people as trans, or hey, they could be.... so could a LOT of people who dont have androgynous apearances... performers do things for acts...  this topic should stick to people who are KNOWN as trans, and famous, not randomly picking people who might be trans who are famous... this is probably how the Wakowski larry/lana BS started...
R :police:

I didn't say he was.
I said "what about?"

He may be.

The thing is, When you dress that way on stage, it is an act, when it's everyday, all the time, it makes you wonder.
Being married has nothing to do with it. And as far as I know neither does being Goth.
He certainly crossdresses on a regular basis, and as far as I know that may continue off stage.
Have you ever seen a picture of him anywhere where he was not portraying himself (or maybe herself) as feminine?
I havn't. That doesn't mean he isn't androgyne, but it doesn't mean he couldn't be trans either.

Such is the subject of the post.
Thats why I posted.

Do you know with certainty he isn't?

i have....
by your rulestick John tavolta MIGHT be trans, because he played a woman in hairspray...
infact by your rules, Tommy bloody lee Jones MIGHT be trans... you have no evidence... musicians are actors too... thier role makes them money...
billy joel in greenday wears eyeliner... must be secretly m2f...
annie lenox had a crewcut... f2m!
if you suggested that the 'feminine, or androgynous looking men at a goth club were trans, you might not survive the night...
apearance =/= squat.... we of all should know this.
R ::)

Quote from: Rachael on December 29, 2007, 09:54:39 PM
i have....
by your rulestick John tavolta MIGHT be trans, because he played a woman in hairspray...
infact by your rules, Tommy bloody lee Jones MIGHT be trans... you have no evidence... musicians are actors too... thier role makes them money...
billy joel in greenday wears eyeliner... must be secretly m2f...
annie lenox had a crewcut... f2m!
if you suggested that the 'feminine, or androgynous looking men at a goth club were trans, you might not survive the night...
apearance =/= squat.... we of all should know this.
R ::)

Huh?
I have no rulestick!
I was just wondering..
I kinda think maybe he is..

even though we told you its an act and his real self is a red blooded conservative?
its like beliveing sly stalone is really a cold blooded killer and special forces veteran...

R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on December 29, 2007, 10:26:03 PM
even though we told you its an act and his real self is a red blooded conservative?
its like beliveing sly stalone is really a cold blooded killer and special forces veteran...

R :police:

I have heard him speak.
He is featured in Bowling for Columbine.
I assure you he is NOT a red-blooded conservative.
Maybe on some issues..
And yes, I feel he could be..

he showed sense and compassion and also didnt perform a concert that could get him bad press and loose him money...? totally not a conservative and obviously trans....
by saying he could be, your saying any andro goth male could be trans...major fail at assumption... your yardstick is broken... infact, i doubt you have one, your just wishing, or dreaming... why? i dont care to find out.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on December 29, 2007, 10:40:02 PM
he showed sense and compassion and also didnt perform a concert that could get him bad press and loose him money...? totally not a conservative and obviously trans....
by saying he could be, your saying any andro goth male could be trans...major fail at assumption... your yardstick is broken... infact, i doubt you have one, your just wishing, or dreaming... why? i dont care to find out.
R :police:

No I am not saying that.
The hell are you getting so riled up bout Marylin Manson For?

You gave me a -1 knock for "steriotypes without any actual evidence."

I'm not sterotyping.

I ACTUALLY FEEL He MIGHT BE.

IF you don't like that tough beans.

I NEVER SAID HE WAS.
That is not sterotyping and I am entitled to my own intuition.

You don't have to agree with it.

I am reporting you to an admin.

feel free... ive done nothing wrong....
its not intuition when you guess btw ;)
your exactly the sort of person that got larry wachowski into so much dramaz!
you maintain your stuborn view dispite out informing you of his true self behind his performers mask... his character, marylyn manson MIGHT... yeah, but the man himself has absolutely no hints whatsoever.... and if your suposition, and thats what it is, balences on his choice of act... well get a life...
R :police:

Ok..
Back on Topic:
Famous or historic Trans. People..

What about like the Egyptian Gods or something like that?

I know some religions, historical, or otherwise have trans. Gods/etc.

In Buddhism, different Bhodisatvas are portrayed as Androgyne, Such as Avalokiteshrara (Kanzeon, Kwan Yin, etc.) as to portray a neutral or aspect that is both feminine and masculine.

For instance, some statures may have a female body but have a mustache.

common problem... i hear boots sell wax for that problem...
R :police:

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 11:16:16 PM
Ok..
Back on Topic:
Famous or historic Trans. People..

What about like the Egyptian Gods or something like that?

Hermaphroditos, Agdistis, Erotes, Saadaya, Asgaya, Gigagei, Awonawilona, etc..

By definition, gods are not people.  Second, most tend to be beyond gender.  Third, where they have gender, you need to begin by noting if the religion in question was one of gods, or goddesses.  (Fourth, being so far removed from the culture of the High Nile, (old Egypt) we have less than zero idea of what they were thinking in the first place.)

Let's get back to real people.  And, at that, let's do successful people.  God knows, failure is as common on this earth as dirt and water.

Ah yes, you are probably right.

I just remembered Pete Burns, the lead singer from Dead Or Alive (You Spin Me Round). He had ALOT of FFS you can tell, and a boob job, but still maintains a deep voice. Do a search on youtube, VERY interesting things said like "I'm this way because I need to be, not to shock people".

Quote from: Christine Eryn on December 30, 2007, 03:37:30 AM
I just remembered Pete Burns, the lead singer from Dead Or Alive (You Spin Me Round). He had ALOT of FFS you can tell, and a boob job, but still maintains a deep voice. Do a search on youtube, VERY interesting things said like "I'm this way because I need to be, not to shock people".

Pete Burns has not had a boob job. He has said on many TV shows that he is not transsexual. I have seen him with his shirt off and has a very flat toned male torso with no signs of hormone manipulation. He wants to look feminine but he does not want a sex change and is not a transsexual. Please don't confuse the thread

Juliania? :P

And pete burns isnt trans, he has no boobjob, and revels in showing off his female face and male body, hes a gay man that did the whole thing for lulz, and hes a bottom... other than crossdressing, he has no transesexual desire ... and i LOVE his accent and voice :D its just, so hilarious to hear coming out of that mouth... that, huge, puffy mouth ><
R :police:

Quote from: Sarah on December 29, 2007, 09:30:46 PM
He may be.

The thing is, When you dress that way on stage, it is an act, when it's everyday, all the time, it makes you wonder.
Being married has nothing to do with it. And as far as I know neither does being Goth.
He certainly crossdresses on a regular basis, and as far as I know that may continue off stage.
Have you ever seen a picture of him anywhere where he was not portraying himself (or maybe herself) as feminine?
I havn't. That doesn't mean he isn't androgyne, but it doesn't mean he couldn't be trans either.

One could also be saying that it's just an act, and the general public would accept that, and even think it was cool due to the shock value. If the person said they were actually trans, their acceptance level would likely plummet. Due to homophobia and transphobia, a trans performer could feel they needed to keep who they really were closeted.

y2g

and a secretly trans performer wouldnt give such obvious 'clues' to out them....
R :police:

Hiding in plain site is a very effective strategy.

"oh its just an act" could allow someone to express themself publicly and otherwise without giving themself away.

It would be quite effective.

Sort of like figureskating :"I'm not completely sexual, I just dress up in a leotard, and makup and have my friend skate arround groping me in the crotch...Its a sport!" Yeah, it is... And it is  not hockey...

There are plenty of people who do it as a sport and for the love of dance, and, some find it erotic in addition to that..
There's nothing wrong with that, but people do often find ways to express themselves in socially accepted ways.
It doesn't mean everyone who does___________ is like that, it does mean that it is possible that some might be.

Most male ballerinas are gay even though some might not be.

what the fruitcage are you talking about? thats loopyer than a DNA helix.... interesting analogy, but i do feel that it is highly speculative... you realise how HARD figure skating is? and to that point, its a fetish you described, yet the ones being tossed,a nd grabbed are the women. women generally dont have fetishes... according to some git i forget the name of...
anyway, regardless, this topic is about CONFIRMED famous trans people, if you want to speculate, start a new thread, otherwise, stick to the topic at hand...
R :police:

"general public would accept that"  I'm pretty sure that is the last thing MM wants.  Back when he toured the Antichrist Superstar record in the mid-90s there were protests at almost every concert site by church groups.  They loved it.  It got them on the news every night, and in the shockrock biz, any coverage is good coverage.

How about Holly Woodlawn (so famous she got a Lou Reed lyric about her - "Holly came from Miami FLA, / hitch-hiked her way across the USA, / plucked her eyebrows on the way, / shaved her legs, and then he was a she...).

or Billy Tipton, who had a real interesting life, and Sylvia Rae Rivera.

Gwen Araujo, transsexual student killed by transphobic a-holes
Chi Chi LaRue, movie director
Michelle Josef, Canadian musician
Mimi Marks, entertainer
Alexis Arquette, actor & musician
Buck Angel, first female to male porn star
Courtney Act, Australian singer
Leslie Feinberg, transgender activist
Harisu, model
Deirdre McCloskey, economist
Jan Morris, British writer
Paul O'Grady, comedian
Rachel Pollack, writer
Jennifer Diane Reitz, computer programmer

paul o grady is trans? :o

no, that was just an act also - a drag act.

here was me thinking lilly savage was a gay mans 'drag' stage performance....
which iirc, hes not done in a while...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on December 30, 2007, 06:22:31 PM
paul o grady is trans? :o

he's a drag queen, so in essence he's trans (as in transgender), not transsexual.

dragqueens arnt transgender... thier 99% happily gay men...
as is mr o grady...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on December 30, 2007, 10:16:31 PM
dragqueens arnt transgender... thier 99% happily gay men...

Drag queens are an integral part of the transgender community, and were among the first of us to start fighting for any of the rights that we now have.

A few more famous trans people:

Silvia Rivera
Marsha P Johnson
Ru Paul
Divine
Lady Bunny

y2g

Quote from: y2gender on December 30, 2007, 10:43:58 PM

Quote from: Rachael on December 30, 2007, 10:16:31 PM
dragqueens arnt transgender... thier 99% happily gay men...

Drag queens are an integral part of the transgender community, and were among the first of us to start fighting for any of the rights that we now have.


y2g

thanks!

I just thought of an interesting possible example of historic Transmen.

What about some of the historic female soldiers?

Like in the civil war?

There were some women who went to an awful lot of trouble just to be a soldier.

More so than what you would expect from a normal GG girl.

Hiding their sex, dressing as men, binding their boobs; this is all trans behavior, and especially at a time when women were particularly expected not to fight. Someone would either have to REALLY like fighting or just be a guy with a female body in order to want to go to all that trouble.

Don't you think? I think it's quite possible some of them were.

I know that at least one black woman may have done it so as to win her freedom as a slave, as that was promised to all slaves who joined the union army; and she got it. But that logic could not be applied to other women who were not in that position or in other wars.

Seems possible no?

tbh, its more like behaviour of women who want to do thier bit, in a time when women couldnt... such actions arnt 'trans behaviour' its passing as a male... which they had to, to fight... sortof a biproduct...
you think onmy f2ms bind thier breasts? sports people....
'would have to really like to fight or want to be a guy'
firstly, there are safer ways to be a man....
the point is, these soldiers wanted to protect thier country, and wernt allowed, patriotism was different then. and i cant expect a modern non historian to understand that concept. but its unlikely these individuals were trans.
maybe possible yes, overwhelming possibilites? these women want to defend thier nation, in a time when wars wernt fought on foreign soil. its happened for centuries...and notice how it stopped when we let women into the militery...
simple fact is, they had to pretend to be men to be in the army,
not every tom dick, or harriet who dresses up as the other sex is automatically transgender....

y2gender:explain how dragqueens suffer GID or are somehow 'transgender'
R :police:

Estelle Asmodelle, Australian actress
Brandon Teena, female to male transsexual killed by transphobic a-holes
Dana Baitz, Canadian musician
Wendy Carlos, composer
Tyra Hunter, male to female transsexual killed by transphobic a-holes

Quote from: Rachael on December 31, 2007, 07:06:22 AM
y2gender:explain how dragqueens suffer GID or are somehow 'transgender'
R :police:

I can't speak for levels of GID that drag queens might suffer. What I do know, having been involved with the gay male community, is that the majority of gay men have no desire whatsoever to wear womens' clothing, so there's a distinct difference. Drag queens are included in definitions of transgender in the wiki here at this site and elsewhere.

Quote from: Natasha on December 30, 2007, 10:46:50 PM
thanks!

You're welcome. I don't like seeing any members of our community marginalized from within, they/we get more than enough of that from the outside world.

y2g

"explain how dragqueens suffer GID or are somehow 'transgender'"

And yet we wonder why we the first people tossed from the bus.  The mind reels.

Wait....what about...Tootsie!

Quote from: nickie on December 31, 2007, 06:29:30 PM
Wait....what about...Tootsie!

what about "tootsie"?  he's a fictitious movie character.  Dustin Hoffman who played tootsie isn't ts of any kind.

ok back to topic:

Barbara Amesbury, Canadian singer
April Ashley, English model
Chevalier d'Eon, French diplomat

Quote from: tekla on December 31, 2007, 03:04:57 PM
"explain how dragqueens suffer GID or are somehow 'transgender'"

And yet we wonder why we the first people tossed from the bus.  The mind reels.

your only in line to be thrown off the bus if you tell them your in line... ;)
and i still dont comprehend how a gay male acting and performing is in any way trans....
i have several gay friends who do drag, they have no compulsion to the clothes whatsoever, just taking the mickey, shocking people, and what they find amusing...
R :police:

We have several here in SF that live in that gender full-time, like Princess Kennedy.  There would have been no original movement for us to be a part of without Stonewall and Compton and both of those events (one on each coast) were pretty much drag queen riots.  You do realize that back in the 60s and early 70s there were no TS/TG, no gender bending, no GID, or any of that, all men dressing as women were all called drag queens.

And 'ja know, the standard public perception of a lot of the gender deal is drag queens, like RuPaul, or Divine, or Dame Edna.  And, I don't think that is all bad.  Might be a shame, but its not all bad.  And I say that because performers have a very good ability to communicate (its their job more or less) and are comfortable in that role.  Rather than a harsh, strident tone, RuPaul sets one that is far more open to far more people.  And, in being pretty successful, RP is not a bad role model for any of us, nor a bad public face for the movement.  I always loved two RP quotes, the first hangs in my office because its the best simple statement of a reality that I sometimes have to contend with, and in this biz any sort of realism is welcome:

Nobody promises anything in show business and you understand that from day one.

The other one I carry close to my heart, because it not only moves me, it also informs me.  And I think the last line is pretty valid for this thread.

What other people think of me is not my business. What I do is what I do. How people see me doesn't change what I decide to do. I don't choose projects so people don't see me as one thing or another. I choose projects that excite me. I think the problem is that people refuse to understand what drag is outside of their own belief system. 

public perception is a funny thing... recently i was watching an episode of the tv show NCIS... and they dealt with a navy commander who vanished with 12 million dollars, the woman they thought was his girlfriend/lover turned out to BE the commander, who transitioned, they refered to her as a 'heshe/->-bleeped-<-/->-bleeped-<-' and once discovereding the 'truth' never used female pronouns again, and mocked the agent that kissed her.
when TV shows today portray transpeople like that, i dont see how thats related to drag queens or some performance aspect...
trans people in the media are used as jokes, suprises, and to shock... the only reason they used a natal female for the role was to suprise the viewer, and probably shock them after they found her attractive.
gotta love that tricking straight men attutide eh?
R >:D

I never watch TV so I could not say.

Joan of arc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc)
Mary walker (http://www.thelizlibrary.org/collections/military/mil3walker.html)
Jamison green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamison_Green)
David reimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer)
Dr. Alan Hart

Joan of arc wasnt trans.... she crossdressed for some practical reasons both in prison, and in the militery. mainly because for the militery part of her life, there WASNT a womens equivalent of the armour and battle clothing.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 01, 2008, 06:56:18 PM
Joan of arc wasnt trans.... she crossdressed for some practical reasons both in prison, and in the militery. mainly because for the militery part of her life, there WASNT a womens equivalent of the armour and battle clothing.
R :police:

dunno.  maybe.  but shes seen as trans in the ftm community.  I didnt make her trans :laugh:  happy new year Rachael :laugh: :) :) :)  I say "she" because she never said she wanted to be a dude but still that doesnt mean she aint trans.

true, then again, communities find figures and pull them to thier side when they cant talk for themselves :P
i dont think she was trans, she was simply a young woman walking her own path in a very mysogynistic time, she took on something no woman could... at the time, it required a bit of crossdressing to do it...
heck, kiera Knightlys character in pirates of the caribean crossdresses... does that make her character trans? dont think so :P
and happy new year to you too :)
R >:D

This thread is getting far too silly with too many people that arn't transssexual being listed all the time.

quite, weve run out of  ->-bleeped-<-s! throw all the maybes on the fire!
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on December 18, 2007, 06:23:02 AM
James Curtis: f2m uk private gender therapist... (one of the only here)

Dont you mean Richard Curtis??

Quote from: Jaston on January 02, 2008, 09:53:21 AM

Quote from: Rachael on December 18, 2007, 06:23:02 AM
James Curtis: f2m uk private gender therapist... (one of the only here)

Dont you mean Richard Curtis??

Yes, I think she meant Richard Curtis (F to M and formerly Vanda Curtis) who was a GP and is now a gender therapist and is based in London: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/09/ntran09.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/09/ixhome.html

hmm... swore i put richard!
yeah, f2m, which considering the ammounts he charges... as a transperson in the uk, he should know how NOT rich most trans people are... his prices are extortionate as he knows how desperate his client base is... not cool.
martine: not cool, how would you like someone bandying your former name around?
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 02, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
hmm... swore i put richard!
yeah, f2m, which considering the ammounts he charges... as a transperson in the uk, he should know how NOT rich most trans people are... his prices are extortionate as he knows how desperate his client base is... not cool.
martine: not cool, how would you like someone bandying your former name around?
R :police:

You mean like the national press a couple of years ago! it was quite a big story at the time. It wasn't a case of keping it quite as he basked in the publicity.

He also costs about the same as all other private consultants.

considering the number of US gender therapists that work on sliding scales... i still think hes a bit ott...
and just because the press did it, doesnt mean its cool to carry on bandying it around...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 02, 2008, 12:53:06 PM
considering the number of US gender therapists that work on sliding scales... i still think hes a bit ott...
and just because the press did it, doesnt mean its cool to carry on bandying it around...
R :police:

All the private consultants in the U.K are about £200 per appointment unfortunitely. But go the the NHS route and it may take a long time to achieve very little.

theres one woman in scotland, i forget her name, at about 90£ a hour, and isnt curtis the only other TRANS private specialist?
not just private consultants....
and yeah, well, some of us cant afford private, and are stuck with the nhs.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 02, 2008, 06:38:03 PM
theres one woman in scotland, i forget her name, at about 90£ a hour, and isnt curtis the only other TRANS private specialist?
not just private consultants....
and yeah, well, some of us cant afford private, and are stuck with the nhs.
R :police:

Most of us cannot afford private price but it seems to be the only way to progress. I borrowed money from a friend a few years ago to go down to see Russell Reid in order to start on hormones, otherwise I'd still be pleading the with the NHS. If you stick with the NHS you will end up with a very long wait.

oh true, im still waiting to see the GIC, 5 more years then therapy maybe :P
but im already on nhs hrt ^_^
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 03, 2008, 06:11:41 AM
oh true, im still waiting to see the GIC, 5 more years then therapy maybe :P
but im already on nhs hrt ^_^
R :police:

I converted my private HRT prescription to NHS the same day. I only had to wait a couple of months for my first NHS GIC appointment (but that was quite a few years ago now) but
I still experienced problems with the NHS after that.

when i get to the GIC, ill probably be asked why i want to be a man... its happened before ><
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 03, 2008, 06:56:40 AM
when i get to the GIC, ill probably be asked why i want to be a man... its happened before ><
R :police:

Yes, it definitely might happen. I can guarentee you will be very dissapointed after you have had your first appointment. I remember being devistated.

i dont really have much that i expect from them... im pretty much transitioned, apart from the surgery.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 03, 2008, 07:37:31 AM
i dont really have much that i expect from them... im pretty much transitioned, apart from the surgery.
R :police:

You are lucky if you only require GRS surgery. Many girls need other forms of surgery like breast augmentation and FFS which is not usually funded by the NHS. The NHS psychiatrists avoid talking or discussing these kinds of surgery even though they are included in the 'Harry Benjamin Standards of care' as part of a transition.

im 20 and freakishly lucky i guess, im certainly in no need of BA or ffs really if im honest.
R :police:

A very famous transsexual activist in my home country, Argentina, is Alejandra Victoria Portatadino.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/Alejandra/Alejandra.html

It was once claimed that singer and model Amanda Lear was a transsexual (she was the model on the Roxy Music 'For your pleasure' album cover) but later she claimed it was all a publicity stunt

Quote from: Martine on January 03, 2008, 12:37:25 PM
It was once claimed that singer and model Amanda Lear was a transsexual (she was the model on the Roxy Music 'For your pleasure' album cover) but later she claimed it was all a publicity stunt

Amanda Lear IS transsexual.  No question about that.  She transitioned very young and had genital surgery in the 60's or early 70's.

http://tgmedia.enacre.net/lorna_lynne/amandal.html

I personally not sure I could support, and it would be very hard
to get the general population to support, paid ffs with
government money. There is a very fine line between
FFS and cosmetic surgery and it would be a
pandora's box to touch this.

The only one maybe could be supported is if you had
SEVERE brow bossing (most type III don't even fall in this
category) or a very big jaw (I'm talking way out of female
range, something that's unequivocal). Many TS that do
FFS are already within female range, they're just not
within the range they'd like to be. Which is more
an esthetic and body image thing than absolutely passing.

As for BA, in Canadam that will never be supported I am sure by
the paying public at large so better not even think about it.
When they barely can get themselves to pay for SRS, anything
else is way way into fantasy land.

Most of the TS said to be famous here are only well known to
a very small number of people, and nobody in the general
population.

IF they had a TS actor in a regular role on House or Greys Anatomy,
then they'd be famous.

Very true K, the only really famous Trans people, are people like 'mirriam', Nadia, or a character in a film... because the world at large doesnt know that trans exists, nevermind famous ones...
R :police:

I wanted to mention Eddie Izzard again,
As he is becoming very famous now as one of the best and funniest comedians out there.
He is giving us a very good face to the general public that Trans people can not only be cool, but downright hilarious, and the life of the party.

yeah, but hes not trans.... and isnt actively associated with being trans...
if anything, hes most famous for being percived as gay, and a ->-bleeped-<-. hardly awesome....
if you asked randoms in the street to name a famous transperson, or a trans comedian, they would probably have his name at the END of the list.
plus id still say his crossdressing is part of his act, rather than a complulshion to express his feminine side.... hes a showman....
you fail at suggestions.
R :police:

Quote from: Pia on January 03, 2008, 12:44:55 PM

Quote from: Martine on January 03, 2008, 12:37:25 PM
It was once claimed that singer and model Amanda Lear was a transsexual (she was the model on the Roxy Music 'For your pleasure' album cover) but later she claimed it was all a publicity stunt

Amanda Lear IS transsexual.  No question about that.  She transitioned very young and had genital surgery in the 60's or early 70's.

http://tgmedia.enacre.net/lorna_lynne/amandal.html

Try reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Lear

Despite modelling nude for Playboy Magazine in 1977 and Amanda saying "and they could see I was a woman like everybody else", she was and still is widely rumoured to be either a transsexual or an intersexual because of her height (5ft 9.25 /176 cm), her masculine facial features and, most of all, her exceptionally low baritone-like vocal timbre. The fact that Lear is a naturally-born man is today considered an open secret in Continental Europe although Amanda has since the early 1980s insisted that these rumours are the result of a planned succès de scandale, a clever publicity stunt thought up by herself and Salvador Dalí to get her career in music started, just like her contradictory statements about her childhood. " - Everything Dali said, I just listened to. He was the genius, who was I? When it came to launching my career, he told me I was a lousy singer and if I wanted to sell records, I'd have to find something other than the music to attract people to buy them. So we built the Amanda Lear persona into something very intriguing and very ambiguous and it worked."

2words... 'lulz' and 'internet'
also this show is brought to you by the number 5
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on January 03, 2008, 06:35:04 PM
yeah, but hes not trans.... and isnt actively associated with being trans...
if anything, hes most famous for being percived as gay, and a ->-bleeped-<-. hardly awesome....
if you asked randoms in the street to name a famous transperson, or a trans comedian, they would probably have his name at the END of the list.
plus id still say his crossdressing is part of his act, rather than a complulshion to express his feminine side.... hes a showman....
you fail at suggestions.
R :police:

He self-describes himself as a ->-bleeped-<-.
He is a full-time  crossdresser.
He has said so.
He is out and open about it.

Quote from: Sarah on January 03, 2008, 07:31:16 PM

Quote from: Rachael on January 03, 2008, 06:35:04 PM
yeah, but hes not trans.... and isnt actively associated with being trans...
if anything, hes most famous for being percived as gay, and a ->-bleeped-<-. hardly awesome....
if you asked randoms in the street to name a famous transperson, or a trans comedian, they would probably have his name at the END of the list.
plus id still say his crossdressing is part of his act, rather than a complulshion to express his feminine side.... hes a showman....
you fail at suggestions.
R :police:

He self-describes himself as a ->-bleeped-<-.
He is a full-time  crossdresser.
He has said so.
He is out and open about it.

Eddie Izzard is NOT transsexual. This thread is about famous trans people. People who have changed gender, not a comedian who started out wearing lipstick and has now ditched the act to become a more serious actor in many TV drama's and more recently in some major feature films. He now has a beard and wears snappy men's suits and hasn't been seen wearing make up for years!

we're talking trans. Not transsexual.
And Eddie Izzard is a pretty classic CD who took it on stage.

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 03, 2008, 07:39:25 PM
we're talking trans. Not transsexual.
And Eddie Izzard is a pretty classic CD who took it on stage.

Pica is correct.
The thread is for all Trans. people. Not just Transsexuals.

Quote from: Sarah on January 03, 2008, 07:45:39 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 03, 2008, 07:39:25 PM
we're talking trans. Not transsexual.
And Eddie Izzard is a pretty classic CD who took it on stage.

Pica is correct.
The thread is for all Trans. people. Not just Transsexuals.

Edfie Izzard ditched the drag act to become a more serious actor in many TV drama's and more recently in some major feature films. He now has a beard and wears snappy men's suits and hasn't been seen wearing make up for years!

The same with David Bowie, he wore make up in 1972 for his 'Ziggy Stardust' and 'Aladdin Sane' characters but it wasn't real and the make up came off after the show. He also wears suits now and looks more manly. This is part of showbusiness and neither of these people are full time ->-bleeped-<-s.

Also the 70's rock scene, glam rock especially, had lots of androgynous looking
bands using lots of what could only be termed ugly effiminate fashion
(considering the uglyness of 70's fashion, that's a pretty serious insult).
with plenty of  makeup. Did you ever see Rod Stewarts jumpers!!! Man,
that was massively ugly.

Quote from: Keira on January 03, 2008, 08:04:50 PM

Also the 70's rock scene, glam rock especially, had lots of androgynous looking
bands using lots of what could only be termed ugly effiminate fashion
(considering the uglyness of 70's fashion, that's a pretty serious insult).
with plenty of  makeup. Did you ever see Rod Stewarts jumpers!!! Man,
that was massively ugly.

That was a great era in regards to how far you could bend the rules. I loved it and it gave me a very early teenage start into looking very feminine and getting away with it. In 1974 everyone thought I was female and that was a great feeling.

I agree some rockstars Like Rod Stewart didn't adjust very well to the glam rock era and felt almost pushed into things they wouldn't normally do. But for us naturals it was great to experiment. I always thought both David Bowie and Marc Bolan looked cool and didn't look ugly. I thought the 1980's were worse! 

Quote from: Martine on January 03, 2008, 07:58:53 PM

Quote from: Sarah on January 03, 2008, 07:45:39 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 03, 2008, 07:39:25 PM
we're talking trans. Not transsexual.
And Eddie Izzard is a pretty classic CD who took it on stage.

Pica is correct.
The thread is for all Trans. people. Not just Transsexuals.

Edfie Izzard ditched the drag act to become a more serious actor in many TV drama's and more recently in some major feature films. He now has a beard and wears snappy men's suits and hasn't been seen wearing make up for years!

The same with David Bowie, he wore make up in 1972 for his 'Ziggy Stardust' and 'Aladdin Sane' characters but it wasn't real and the make up came off after the show. He also wears suits now and looks more manly. This is part of showbusiness and neither of these people are full time ->-bleeped-<-s.

So he was lying then, Hmm?
Well that sucks.
He has said that he was doing this at a young age.
I would want more clarification on him.
If he was lying, he was lying.
I would be disapointed.
I will look into this.
Thank you for posting this.

Posted on: January 03, 2008, 07:20:55 PM

---

From the wikipedia article:
"Izzard describes himself as an "executive" or "action" ->-bleeped-<-, as "a male tomboy" or "male lesbian" rather than a "weirdo" ->-bleeped-<- (he cites J. Edgar Hoover as an example of the latter). He regularly cross-dresses both on and off stage and makes it clear that cross-dressing is, for him, not a sexual thing — he simply enjoys wearing make-up and clothing which is traditionally perceived in the West as female-only. He remarks in one of his shows, "Women wear what they want and so do I." According to Izzard, "Most ->-bleeped-<-s fancy girls." He dismisses claims that he is homosexual, saying he is either a straight ->-bleeped-<- or a "male lesbian". He has also described himself as "a lesbian trapped in a man's body," but this is not generally taken to mean that he actually identifies as a transgender lesbian.

Often describing his "breast envy," Izzard, after shooting the film The Avengers, occasionally wears a pair of false breasts, reputedly modeled upon co-star Uma Thurman's own breasts. These had been intended for Thurman's body double to use."

-I don't think that having facial hair excludes him as a CD.
Nor being more business-like. It could be the price of success and a continued career. Also regarding acting, Actors pride themselves in not being restricted in the roles they play. The ones who really enjoy acting hate being given the same role over and over again as it brands them as un-diverse and not flexable as a performer.
I don't think that being a CD or Trans. means that one has to always play those roles as a performer.
That is the whole point of being a good actor: being able to perform roles that may be difficult or that one may find intriguing or challenging.
If he describes himself as a CD, I don't see any reason to say he isn't.
-Actually, if he has breast envy, it sounds like he is more than just CD to me..

I think he ditched the dress from the act, but not from life. He said he started dressing on stage to calm down the stage nerves - I reckon it became part of the act but was always there.

Amanda's "masculine" features, height and even body are found in 90% of models
today so I don't get why that should determine she's a TS. Maybe models
where daintier in the 60's and 70's ?

Have you seen models these days; they are tall tall tall with strong jaws, large shoulders
and not to wide hips.

There's even a web site entirely devoted to proving that the reason designers like
models to look like men is that they're all gay and they want to see boyish women
on the runway!!

Like I said elsewhere,
Rebecca Romjin started as a model
and she could crush Amanda any day of the week!!
And nobody's claiming she's a TS; though now with
her ugly betty role I'm sure people will start to
confound reality and fiction somehow. Its possible
the same thing happened in Amanda's case. The
jury''s still out on that one.

again, the amanda thing is like the lana wichowski bs... another story that spinned out of proportions.
hey, everyone tags Anne Coulter as being trans...
R

Next someone will list Dame Edna Everage and Lilly Savage as trans people... ;)

soon as they do. i will find thier house, and torture them sadistically, before feeding them to nero in his tuna sandwitch...
R :police:

Quote from: Berliegh on January 04, 2008, 11:22:43 AM
Next someone will list Dame Edna Everage and Lilly Savage as trans people... ;)

dame edna is trans, she's longed to be a man for years.

Terry Noel
Georgina Beyer
Canary Conn
Coccinelle
Marie-Pier Ysser a.k.a. Bambi
Marci Bowers, M.D
Christine Beatty
Robertina Manganaro
Alexus Sheppard
Katherine Cummings
Mianne Bagger
Candi Stratton
Leslie Townsend
Gloria Gray
April Ashley
Aleshia Brevard
Melanie Anne Phillips
Andrea James
Karen Mulane
Dana Beyer, M.D.


tink :icon_chick:

P.S.  You can check the wikipedia for further info on these women.

katherine Cummings people MAY know of, but as trans? April ashley, and Candi Stratton possibly, but not many non trans folk know the rest...
and isnt melanie anne philips that woman that had a voice training program? how does that make her famous?

Pica: sorry to break it to you, Dame edna _IS_ a man.
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 04, 2008, 08:26:15 PM
katherine Cummings people MAY know of, but as trans? April ashley, and Candi Stratton possibly, but not many non trans folk know the rest...
and isnt melanie anne philips that woman that had a voice training program? how does that make her famous?

Pica: sorry to break it to you, Dame edna _IS_ a man.
R

I am famous but I haven't included my name here just to be modest!  :P

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Rachael on January 04, 2008, 08:26:15 PM
Pica: sorry to break it to you, Dame edna _IS_ a man.
R

yeah i know that, but doesn't she do anything about it? Buy some male clothes, stop having a perm. She's built her career on glamour and can't abandon that to go with his true feelings.

no, he cant stop, because of the MONEY..... that doesnt make him trans, that makes him a performer, with a sucessful carear, they may not like it, but its not GD....
and its a wig by the way ;) he does have male clothes and a male life... hes been on several shows as a man

R

oh, that's even weirder. sort of shakespeare, a girl body who is a man inside being a woman who is a man. confusing. Do you think he's had phalloplasty with all that cash?

huh?
hes a guy...
he has a mans body, does a drag act as dame edna....
he is in no way, physically, or mentally, FEMALE
do you even know about them?
edna is a CHARACTER....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_edna
her biography, which might be confusing you, is a work of fiction ;)
R :police:

what? he wasn't born female???

his name is Barry Humphries... edna is his character...
R

Oh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWDa88K53D4

;D

Interesting thing about Eddie Izzard:

He was once attacked for being Trans. in Cambridge.

This was very early on in his career. "I took them to court and won £200 in damages. I had made my point, and went off and blew the money on cheesecake at a Happy Eater. I should be known as Tough ->-bleeped-<- Who Can Take Care of Himself."

Lol.
Go Eddie.

I'm glad He wasn't killed.
He makes great comedy.
And I like him.

It's interesting though that even someone as famous as him got jumped for being trans.
Of course he wasn't famous then, but still.

You never know.

It's sobering in a way.

A reminder for the need for caution.

biggots dont care if your famous, you dont belive like they do, your a target.
R :police:

....Here's one not mentioned....Jayne County....

who is she? ive never heard that name before...
mind you, ive never heard HALF the names here... makes me wonder how famous they actually are to those outside, or on the fringe, of the trans community.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on January 05, 2008, 07:23:59 PM
who is she? ive never heard that name before...
mind you, ive never heard HALF the names here... makes me wonder how famous they actually are to those outside, or on the fringe, of the trans community.
R :police:

A very famous punk rock Icon from the late 70's.......see links: http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/waynecountysex.htm
http://www.jaynecounty.com/

I'm with Rachael on this one (and I'm old enough to remember punk rock first hand...); Punk was pretty fringe and had a brief surge of popularity in 1976-1977 in the UK alone (elsewhere it was way underground).

Even then, only a few bands really broke through. I think the truly famous. The sex pistols (who actually had a number one UK album in 1977 before they broke up in early 1978), Ramones, The Clash, Siouxie and the Banshees (though, they're not really just punk and they outlasted all groups started at the same time, they had a very profound influence on the 80's scene)) and a few others I forget about.

cant we list famous trans people, who are famous outside of the community? i swear half of these are relative unknowns... and thus not famous.
R :police:

A few trans who where famous BEFORE they transitioned,
but they weren't so famous afterward, they're carreer
was not as strong (maybe because they didn't the attention for
being TS and just wanted to be a regular women). Wendy Carlos, the musician is
a prototype for this.

One of the most famous TS, and an early one too (SRS in 1972) is Jan Morris, who
actually was short listed for the Booker prize in 1985!! She was a well known historian
and travel writer before transition and has continued her carreer with success post-transition.

She started taking E shots in the 60's and fought with Charing Cross (familiar isn't it) who
wanted her to divorce her wife to get SRS, instead she went to french surgeon George Burou

The BBC made a profile show of her life.

She accompanied the british UK expedition that
was the first to scale everest in 1953. That news made it around the world with her
byline (under her original name).

She was also way key in relaying information during the suez canal crisis.

She's got a CBE from the Queen in 1999 (not many can say this).

As an historian, she published a seminal work, Pax Britannica trilogy, a history of hte
british empire.

Another, that is undoubtably trans (though not sure 100% of TS status) is one
of the Wachovki brothers (of Matrix fame). I don't know if that person's a TS
(though I'd bet on hormones...), but transgendered, 100% sure. Considering the Matrix
trilogy did more than 1.5 Billion at the box office worldwide, that's pretty famous :-).

She sounds famous enough :P

And Kiera: the Wackovki scandal, of larry/lana has been repeatedly refuted, and actively denied by both brothers.
it was proven as an internet hoax and completely false. hes not trans, although, the matrix story does lend itself to Trans theory...
we arnt who we truely are, and a computer error in theory could put a female in a male body...  creating a TS person in the matrix (yes i thought about that too much :P
R :police:

If the Watchokvi brother is not TS, well he's at least transgendered or androgyne.
Very hard to deny the ambiguous appearance.

publicity stunt, or something to do with a dominatrix iirc :P
and must someone be TG to look androgynous, or like looking andro?

R :police:

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 11:46:32 AM

I'm with Rachael on this one (and I'm old enough to remember punk rock first hand...); Punk was pretty fringe and had a brief surge of popularity in 1976-1977 in the UK alone (elsewhere it was way underground).

Even then, only a few bands really broke through. I think the truly famous. The sex pistols (who actually had a number one UK album in 1977 before they broke up in early 1978), Ramones, The Clash, Siouxie and the Banshees (though, they're not really just punk and they outlasted all groups started at the same time, they had a very profound influence on the 80's scene)) and a few others I forget about.

Wayne / Jayne county was very famous in the late 1970's around 1977, mostly for her vulgar stage and and her much publicised gender change. I remember as a young teenager being facinated with the story even though she wasn't the most glamourous person in the world. Wayne (Jayne) County and the Electric Chairs had a few minior hits in 1977 - 78.

Another story that facinated me more was the Tula Cossey story which was spread all across the Sun newspaper in 1982. I was in my first job and the guys at work read the story and made comments that they 'would.....go with her'......even if she was transsexual. She was completely credable, so hetrosexual guys fancied her too. I took the newspaper out of the bin and took it home. It was a turning point for me and I knew from then on what I needed to do. That was when I started to seek help and was diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

Berleigh, if she's a punk rocker (which is already kinda fringe except for a few groups),
she was not a top one; she's nowhere in Wiki and they're pretty thorough in listing even the smallest groups
and performers from the area.
Punk rock started around late 1975 (though there were groups with sounds tending that way a few years before) and by 1978 had basically run its course in the general culture.

Maybe because of your interest, you were interested in her and for you, she was interesting.
But, in general culture, she's a very small blip at most.

again, another person famous within a subculture. not culturally famous
R :police:

Well, stop complaining, get out there and do something.

Pica Pica, a crab bit your toes or something?     :P
Its a thread about famous trans. The definition of famous is sort of relevant.

quite...
pica: i suggest after watching your androgyne theory video (and btw, i pronounce it and-roger-knee...) i suggest you go into standup, or some other chatshow style carear, and become a famous person :P in the, people know your name who arnt from your social subgroup sort of famous, ie, what the topic is about.... to be honest, i could say Susan is famous... she is in the trans community... does it stand up as fame if you asked in the street? no, thats the fame this topic is after, so far, were quite short on that.
especially LONG LASTING famous trans folk... some blips, and temporary famous ->-bleeped-<-s, but none stay the course.

R >:D

lets show em then eh  ;D

so i get to be your glamorous assistant?
R :police:

i wanted to be yours

i do require androgyne's for my talkshow band....?
4 genderqueers and a piccolo... :P

R >:D

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 06:30:36 PM
Berleigh, if she's a punk rocker (which is already kinda fringe except for a few groups),
she was not a top one; she's nowhere in Wiki and they're pretty thorough in listing even the smallest groups
and performers from the area.
Punk rock started around late 1975 (though there were groups with sounds tending that way a few years before) and by 1978 had basically run its course in the general culture.

Maybe because of your interest, you were interested in her and for you, she was interesting.
But, in general culture, she's a very small blip at most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayne_County

The Wiki reads like a PR piece (influencitial is used in a very liberal way).
Seems to come from the glam movement (makes sense for a TS) than the punk movement.
She seems to have come late to the punk scene 1977 and was a minor influence.
Read the punk page to see all the groups and you'll see what I mean, maybe
she had more influence on glam rock, but that also faded by early 80's though
the glam rock as a whole scene had a stylistic influence but not influence musically
on the alternative scene (See Duran Duran and The Cure).

Still not convinced of being famous beyond the alternative scene.

But, doesn't matter, and its mainly splitting hair. 95% of Trans here are very marginally
famous so she' no different.

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 09:13:29 PM

The Wiki reads like a PR piece (influencitial is used in a very liberal way).
Seems to come from the glam movement (makes sense for a TS) than the punk movement.
She seems to have come late to the punk scene 1977 and was a minor influence.
Read the punk page to see all the groups and you'll see what I mean, maybe
she had more influence on glam rock, but that also faded by early 80's though
the glam rock as a whole scene had a stylistic influence but not influence musically
on the alternative scene (See Duran Duran and The Cure).

Still not convinced of being famous beyond the alternative scene.

But, doesn't matter, and its mainly splitting hair. 95% of Trans here are very marginally
famous so she' no different.

Why don't you admit you were wrong for once. It WAS in Wiki....

Quote from: Rachael on January 06, 2008, 08:57:47 PM
i do require androgyne's for my talkshow band....?
4 genderqueers and a piccolo... :P

R >:D

I hope you haven't forgotten a mandolinist/fiddler/guitarist for the band... I know someone  ;) ;D

y2g <who has played on over 30 recordings, but you still probably haven't ever heard of me> :'(

Wendy Carlos is the most famous trans person I know of who is famous for doing something other than transitioning.  Working with Robert Moog, she was one of the first people to record with his synthesizer, making her the pioneer of electronic musicians.    She wrote scores for several films, one of which, A Clockwork Orange is considered a landmark.  Though, I'm fond the the stuff she wrote for The Shining.  The record Sonic Seasonings is considered by some the first 'ambient' record.

Everything after 72 was done as Wendy, and reissues were done under Wendy and not her prior name.  Switched on Bach was the first classical album to sell 500,000 copies, and the first to ever go platinum.  Wendy's early work with recording and realizing music on a computer is responsible for many of the improvements that made things like ProTools possible.

From her web site:

"In April of 2005, Wendy was presented with the SEAMUS 2005 Life Achievement Award, in recognition of her groundbreaking work in the electro acoustic world since the '60s. She has delivered papers at New York University, the Audio Engineering Society's Digital Audio Conference, Dolby's NYC Surround Sound demonstration and panel, and other music/audio conferences. Carlos is a member of the Audio Engineering Society, the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, and the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences. Carlos consults for several Macintosh developers including Mark of the Unicorn, Opcode, and Coda, has designed PostScript music fonts for Casady & Greene, and has developed libraries and tunings for Kurzweil/Young Chang. Other interests include solar eclipse chasing, surround sound, astronomy, color vision, photography  and other visual arts, map making, reading, gourmet food, film, and a love of animals."


Her discogrphy is far greater then most bands ever achive.

    * Switched-On Bach (1968)
    * The Well-Tempered Synthesizer (1969)
    * Sonic Seasonings (1972)
    * A Clockwork Orange (soundtrack) (1972)
    * Wendy Carlos's Clockwork Orange, (1972), all the music composed or realized for the film.
    * Switched-on Bach II (1974)
    * By Request (1975)
    * Switched-On Brandenburgs (1979)
    * The Shining: Score Selections (soundtrack) (1980)
    * Tron (soundtrack) (1982)
    * Digital Moonscapes (1984)
    * Beauty In the Beast (1986)
    * Land of the Midnight Sun (1986 composition, released on the 1998 Sonic Seasonings reissue)
    * Secrets of Synthesis (1987)
    * Peter and The Wolf (1988) (with "Weird Al" Yankovic)
    * Switched-On Bach 2000 (1992)
    * Tales of Heaven and Hell (1998)
    * Switched-On Boxed Set (1999)
    * Rediscovering Lost Scores, Volume 1 (2005) (The Shining, A Clockwork Orange, UNICEF)
    * Rediscovering Lost Scores, Volume 2 (2005) (The Shining, Tron, Split Second, Woundings)


The reason she is not some big trans idol, is because she is not interested in sharing any of it.  She is private and wants to stay that way.  But famous, a pioneer, important.  Yeah, she is all that.

I remember both Walter/Wendy Carlos and Wayne/Jayne County in the 80's and I wasn't particularly alternative. They were pretty famous, Carlos actually being someone with talent, but County being sort of a shock stage performance.

I wouldn't call either obscure, but perhaps it depends on where you were in the 80's. I was in Vancouver.

Dennis

i was in nursery.

I'd say Wendy Carlos, which I listed earlier than Tekla (who was very thorough),
is much more well known by the public at large (in this case, the musical public)
than the other one. But, hey, that's only an opinion.

My own soft spot if for Jan Morris because of the wide variety of work before and
after transition. Again, this is a mainly private person, but she's written a book about
transition Connundrum which is suppose to be very good (which should be expected from
a lifelong published writer).

Quote from: tekla on January 06, 2008, 10:06:47 PM

Wendy Carlos is the most famous trans person I know of who is famous for doing something other than transitioning.  Working with Robert Moog, she was one of the first people to record with his synthesizer, making her the pioneer of electronic musicians.   

Wendy Carlos is a tremendous musician and also an influential person for me. I still have some of her early LPs in my collection.

y2g

I'm a big fan, which is why I did the write up, plus I'm snowed-in waiting to ski, so I need something to do, (even if I have to send them back through my home computer via phone lines to get them on the web - at least we got power back on up here - its been out for two days)  I have her first record, but I've converted to the CDs, the 20 bit mastering ones are mind-blowing.  Her photos of eclipses are pretty amazing also.  Of course it helps if you have enough money to chase solar eclipses around the world, not a cheep hobby.  The recordings are justly famous for good reason, but in the community of audio engineers she is even more famous for the groundbreaking work she has done in that area.  And she has always been a MAC person, which is pretty cool.  Anyway she has a web site (google: wendy carlos) and the photos are cool, and her bit where she talks about her transition without ever using the world. 

Tekla, you work at the Filmore?

That's gotta be cool.

Is there a big trans community near there?

I know it's San Fransisco

Yes, Warfield too, where Slayer did "War at the Warfield" but I do other venues also.  Its all a big trans community here in some respects, but in others, since trans people are pretty much free to go wherever - save gang-banger bars, where race and colors and not sex is more of a shoot on site deal - its not like its a huge united deal.  But I rarely see a charity event without one or more of our more famous trans people (no matter how defined) in attendance.  And it keeps me from being bored its Willie Nelson one night, Judas Priest the next, STS9 after that, hip hop next, and on, and on.  I do about 230 shows a year.  But working at the Fillmore is special, as I've told bands, "Yeah sure, you're famous, but we're a legend, and when VHS1 is doing the "what ever happened to" about you, we'll still be a legend."  They hate that.

Oh, STS9.
I saw them at Redrocks.
Them and Jurrasic five were together.

Good jam group.

They come to Boulder a lot.

That sounds like a fun job!  :D

Sara

Its not a good life for all, but the night life may not be a good life, but its my life, and its been good to me.

STS9 is fun.  I like them, but my crew abuses me bad for that, as they all dislike them (to say the least).  I'm a big fan of their lighting designer, who everyone hates (he is hard to work with) but is an awesome designer, very unique plots, even if they take forever to set up.

Oddly enough, they don't think of themselves as a jam band.  They do not jam, but play the a composition note for note the way it was written.

At any rate, stagehands and production people everywhere are so happy they junked the rocks and all that other stuff they used to use.

 ;D LOL. Oh yeah! the rocks... :D lol, I had forgotten about that.

Sara

Posted on: January 12, 2008, 09:02:15 PM

---

If the information is to be believed correct:
J Edgar Hoover.

http://www.transgenderzone.com/features/jedgarhoover.htm

Hearsay and rumour....
like one of his leutenants says, the director of the fbi is under surveillance for thier protection... like one of his aides say... people distorting the truth for lols.... they would have had to report it if only for his protection, and there would be record.... its alleged a maffia slur.... that he was homosexual... ironic considering his replacement was the one that was bent :P
R :police: