Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have mentioned it a few places, but I am a bit stumped on how to proceed with my voice. I know I have to work on a ton still, such as inflection, but (as I say in the clip) for the time being I'm focusing on pure sound since I'm not using the voice publicly. Those of you with an ear for this and therapy experience, can you point me in the right direction? Is it just a matter of speaking with this voice enough for it to "settle"? Pitch in the sample provided varies between 210-240 according to Pitchlab lite, though I hit a lower pitch here and there that is just my voice cracking with the lack of pure practice/vocal strength/endurance.

Here is the sample: https://vocaroo.com/i/s1oL94GsJBpe

Forgive the lip smacking early on, my mouth was crazy dry and I didn't realize it until I started talking, but the rest of the sample had the sound I was trying to convey so didn't want to rerecord. For the most part, this is virtually no practice, it's just what I've always been able to do(I do a lot of impressions and accents and have a fairly large vocal range), so that I'm hoping with proper direction I can get somewhere solid, yet definitely don't want to wait until I'm in an area with vocal therapists to start (none around here obviously).

What I know I need:
- A slightly higher pitch (though this seems to be very equivalent to my mom's voice, I'd like something a bit more like my sister's which has a higher more melodic sound, may not be realistic but that's the goal).
- Endurance
- Inflection
- Projection (i can speak normal volume, but can't yell or anything)

I have hit a perfect voice before by pure accident sort of copycating my sister, that I can't find my way back to. So I know I can do better, I just don't know how to get there. ;/ My natural voice is around 135 average mhz if that matters.

It's a start but I think your pitch is going lower than you think. You might want to download PRAAT (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html) if you have a PC and see where your at. With a starting pitch of 135HZ, you should have enough range to produce a passable feminine voice. After voice surgery, that's where my chest voice ended up and when I switch to my head voice, I have plenty of range.

Quote from: Dena on February 02, 2018, 11:18:19 PM
It's a start but I think your pitch is going lower than you think. You might want to download PRAAT (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html) if you have a PC and see where your at. With a starting pitch of 135HZ, you should have enough range to produce a passable feminine voice. After voice surgery, that's where my chest voice ended up and when I switch to my head voice, I have plenty of range.

I feel like it is a lower pitch listening to it as well, but all the apps say the same range, so I'm not sure what deal is. I can go a lot higher but I start hitting falsetto.

Quote from: Roll on February 02, 2018, 11:32:00 PM
I feel like it is a lower pitch listening to it as well, but all the apps say the same range, so I'm not sure what deal is. I can go a lot higher but I start hitting falsetto.

Hi Ellie,

  The first thing I was taught was how to breathe.  Breathing with your diaphram. She had me put one hand on my chest and the other on my tummy. Then breathe in. Your tummy should move and not your chest.

  Another thing you hear about is your chest voice and your head voice.  Put a hand on your chest and talk. If you feel vibrations you are using your chest voice. You want to focus your sound higher up and to the front of your mouth. If you getit up there you no longer feel vibrations in your chest.

Sent from my LGL44VL using Tapatalk

Quote from: Laurie on February 03, 2018, 02:15:14 AM
Hi Ellie,

  The first thing I was taught was how to breathe.  Breathing with your diaphram. She had me put one hand on my chest and the other on my tummy. Then breathe in. Your tummy should move and not your chest.

  Another thing you hear about is your chest voice and your head voice.  Put a hand on your chest and talk. If you feel vibrations you are using your chest voice. You want to focus your sound higher up and to the front of your mouth. If you getit up there you no longer feel vibrations in your chest.

Wow, diaphragm breathing harder than I expected. I'll have to work on that. I actually do have "head voice" down, even in that clip despite the slight deeper undertone(I listened to it again and I think it may just be the recording on that, even though it still reads at 230 avg). That was one of the things that made me unsure how to progress since I wasn't getting anywhere even though I had no reverb in chest at all.

Quote from: Roll on February 03, 2018, 08:27:13 AM

Wow, diaphragm breathing harder than I expected. I'll have to work on that. I actually do have "head voice" down, even in that clip despite the slight deeper undertone(I listened to it again and I think it may just be the recording on that, even though it still reads at 230 avg). That was one of the things that made me unsure how to progress since I wasn't getting anywhere even though I had no reverb in chest at all.

Okay then Ellie, I will move on. My honest criticism of your voice is that it sounds a bit too high. Not falsetto but still forced. Knowing what you look like I cannot imagine those sounds coming from you. It does sound like quite a few of the girls I've heard on Youtube.  It doesn't sound natural.
   To find my pitch my speech pathologist had me say knoll in my normal pitch and  hold it. When I got used to doing that she had me raise the pitch up 2 tones strating low and ending up then going the other way. You can try going higher but you don't want to force it. It shoul be able to be sustaned easily and not cracking. Find a natural feeling and sounding tone. Woman's voices come in all pitches, there are other things that make it a feminine voice.

Sent from my LGL44VL using Tapatalk

Quote from: Laurie on February 03, 2018, 01:19:02 PM
Okay then Ellie, I will move on. My honest criticism of your voice is that it sounds a bit too high. Not falsetto but still forced. Knowing what you look like I cannot imagine those sounds coming from you. It does sound like quite a few of the girls I've heard on Youtube.  It doesn't sound natural.
   To find my pitch my speech pathologist had me say knoll in my normal pitch and  hold it. When I got used to doing that she had me raise the pitch up 2 tones strating low and ending up then going the other way. You can try going higher but you don't want to force it. It shoul be able to be sustaned easily and not cracking. Find a natural feeling and sounding tone. Woman's voices come in all pitches, there are other things that make it a feminine voice.

Too high surprised me, but I think you are right. I just tested dropping down to 210 or so average and it definitely sounds more natural and I don't really have to force it at all(though after am inute my voice does still start to crack, that is just more practice). If I could maintain around there a bit better without dropping when tired, it would be pretty solid maybe. I'm going to play with keeping it lower for a bit and try to get inflection in there a bit better(I can do inflection creating a super stereotypical "gay guy" voice, just not really at the same time, which i definitely need to work on). Honestly, my mom's voice was probably more along the lines of 200-210 now that I'm really looking at the numbers. When I get back from store I'll probably toss up another recording of me around that pitch, using better equipment this time. (Really don't know why the other recording came out as bad as it did.)

 Hi again,

  If you are able to better maintain the tad lower pitch and it sounds more natural then that is what I would suggest you do. One of the things she had me do was to take several diaphragmatic breaths and then sa the knoll and raise it up and down to refresh when I want to be. Then I would do the exercise she wanted me to. If I stopped or messed up she had me breathe and get my pitch again with saying knoll and got right into talking with the pitch again. it becomes easier as you practice. And also being hydrated also helps with the voice. So drink your water girl.

  Inflection: Inflection I think more of as a mannerism. A male uses loudness to get their point across or to emphasize words. Brute force if you will. A female typically will not do that. Instead the use inflection. By that I mean they will raise the pitch of the word she wants to emphasize. If you listen closely you will often her this. Another thing women will do is end a phrase or sentence with an uplift in pitch making it sound almost a question. Practice this first with sentences that actually ask a question. Another mannerism women is to add a confirming question on the end of a statement again raising the pitch at the end. Such as Those flowers smell divine, don't they? or  It is, isn't it? In those two you want to raise pitch a little on divine and is and lift it into a question at the ends with they? and  it?
  Of course choosing the right wordings and words helps  a lot too.

Laurie,


If Mr. Spock from Star Trek was here, he might say, "Fascinating."

He is not, so I just did.  I will make a mental note of what you advised to Ellie as it makes for good practice.

"Logical," as Spock might say.

Chrissy

  Thank you Chrissy. I am still seeing my speech pathologist though the last two times have been more of a visit to chat with her and have her hold my hand. These things I am relating here are still pretty fresh. She had told me the time before last that I have the things she taught me understood and it is really a matter of practicing. This last visit she said that I was using the techniques with her even though frequently I wasn't actually trying. I did raise my pitch at times with her but not all the time. We talked about my needing to learn to talk with my hands as it does not come naturally to me. Women use a lot more gestures an are more open in body language them men are. They also touch a lot more. All of these are alien to me after 64 years of trying to be a man. So there ya go Ellie another lesson for you.

  One of the ways I try to practice is by reading the posts here on Susan's out loud in my higher head voice.

Hugs,
  Laurie

I talked with my hands a lot as a kid, it was one of my most feminine mannerisms growing up, and I have apparently fallen back into it naturally. Even my therapist commented on it which was interesting.

I have seen some drivers, almost always men, use hand gestures while they are driving and apparently talking at the same time to these other drivers.  I am not sure how they can hear what is saying though with all of the car windows closed. 

Perhaps this hand movement accompanies the talking as a communication aid so these other drivers better understand the words being said to them.  Most often, the hand gestures are not complex or flowing, they simply involve extending just one finger.  Are they telling these other drivers that the other drivers are "Number 1?" 

So, at least this specific type of hand movement while talking is not inherently female.

Ellie, I know what you and Laurie are saying - that natural hand movement is important to use while talking and you being natural with that body language is good, you are a step ahead. 

Here is a big wave to you and Laurie, with all fingers extended!   :)


Chrissy

I don't know what the deal is but I get inconsistent pitch readings between both my apps and praat. Computer recordings seem to pick up noise (bad laptop mic), but what I can do with phone is limited. I'm going to try to figure something out. Meanwhile, here is a second sample that I dropped down to 195ish I think (can't get consistent readings so that is mostly a guess).

I know there's still plenty of issues, but is the general sound a bit better to start with?

Sample 2 (195ish?): https://vocaroo.com/i/s1wPvD3vR0hy

The recording quality is better than your first one.

Maybe you might want to invest in a better mic.
Perhaps for about $50 or $60 a Meteor or a Snowball model.  I think Blue makes the Snowball model.

Using either of these mics should result in far better recordings than a built-in computer mic
and reviews are good that I have seen for these two low cost microphones.

A better mic should allow you to make more accurate recordings to listen to.
Trying hard to eliminate unwanted sounds from the mic, so it just records you voice, would also be helpful.

Chrissy.

Quote from: Roll on February 04, 2018, 04:16:33 PM
I don't know what the deal is but I get inconsistent pitch readings between both my apps and praat. Computer recordings seem to pick up noise (bad laptop mic), but what I can do with phone is limited. I'm going to try to figure something out. Meanwhile, here is a second sample that I dropped down to 195ish I think (can't get consistent readings so that is mostly a guess).

I know there's still plenty of issues, but is the general sound a bit better to start with?

Sample 2 (195ish?): https://vocaroo.com/i/s1wPvD3vR0hy

I liked the sound of this recording.  It sound more natural than the other. It doesn't sound forced.

Sent from my LGL44VL using Tapatalk

Though I'm new to voice training, I have to say the second one did sound much better. I've heard so many different things as far as manipulating your vocal cords and adams apple etc. that unless your getting professional voice lessons it comes down to alot of trial and error, and recording yourself without overstraining your voice. One thing i did hear that has kind of helped me was to swallow, you feel your adams apple move up, try and use that muscle to pull it up when your practicing as it cancels out the mail side of your vocals. I use my nose (not in a nasal sound) in the sense that I pull from there, if that even makes sense.