Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Arrived in Seoul last night, headed to the Gangnam-Gu neighborhood.  I am not quite 6 weeks post-op from GCS, ain't gonna do any Gangnam Style dance moves quite yet.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/tw80co8uxxhbrdr/2018-02-27%2020.17.39.jpg?raw=1)

Pre-surgery meeting at Yeson Voice Center (http://www.yesonvc.net/) is three hours from now, surgery tomorrow.  Post-surgery follow up March 7, return to US March 8.

Rented an AirBnB, 18th floor studio (https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/14493929) next to Gangnam subway station - excellent location just $600 USD total for 1-1/2 weeks.  Building is new, apartment includes two internet routers - one is pocket size I can travel with in Korea to avoid roaming fees.  It's the building on the left in this photo:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi9c6qwg7xhwqnd/2018-02-27%2022.45.19.jpg?raw=1)

Bought a four day Korean Rail Pass (http://www.letskorail.com/) for unlimited high speed rail travel anywhere in South Korea.  Although I won't be very talkative the month of March, a couple days after surgery I'll jump on the train and see other areas.

Before leaving for this trip I printed out some paper cards - planning one month of voice rest. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/bo280hh02qpa87a/IMG_0081.JPG?raw=1)

Sounds like your ready!
Good luck Kendra!

Jessica

Hi Kendra,

Good luck tomorrow. I am so happy for you. From your preparation it looks like you really prepared well.

I have come to a conclusion that not using a laser may provide less tissue damage and a greatly reduced potential of scar tissue forming at the location where the vocal folds meet. So the issue of vocal power is much less an issue. This is my opinion from seeing several vocal folds from before and after from surgeons that do laser and Dr. Kim's results. Also From talking to patients from surgeons that did a laser assist vfs.

I am so happy for you. Please provide detailed. Last I looked mid last year the cost for the vfs all in was about $7,000. I would love to know the current tally.

I wish you a speedy recovery and fantastic results.

One of the reasons I did the procedure I had was that the vocal folds are not touched. I gained about 30 hz from the operation and going below 160 hz is locked out. I planned to do a glottoplasty if I was not satisfied with the pitch. I am going to plan for a glottoplasty in the summer.

From what I have read from many accounts you are in very competent hands and will be happy with the results. I am so happy for you.

Had the pre-surgery meeting today.  They ran a lot of tests - two hours of 'em.  And then I met with Dr. Kim. 

1. Four page questionnaire to help assess current voice and goals.
2. A strange test I don't understand with a bunch of electrodes stuck to me. 
3. Blood test. 
4. Read the rainbow passage which was video recorded and spectrum analyzed.
5. Put on a mask and say a tone (aahhhhhhh) for as long as possible.  Turns out this checked several things.
6. They placed a camera down my throat, say aahhhh at different pitches.  The camera is tiny, wasn't bad.  And it isn't just any camera - this takes very high speed video.  Vocal chords move much faster than 30 frame per second video - so their camera has to run faster.
7. XRay of throat area.  That involved a walk across street to a different clinic, then back to Yeson.
8. Anesthetic sprayed into my nostrils and ... a small camera shoved waaay up my nose.  All in the name of science so I'm ok with that.  Dr. Kim ran this particular test - all the others were by assistants. 

Equipment used for test #5:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mfzlkvxk9hfcpy/IMG_0134.JPG?raw=1)

Equipment used for test #6:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6tfqmzf2f0n4nlz/IMG_0130.JPG?raw=1)

After two hours of tests I met with Dr. Kim for a half hour.  The tests don't just show whether someone is a good candidate for this surgery - the tests show where things are out of norm (regardless of gender) and may be a factor in the surgery plan.  He showed me a couple areas where my voice has additional problems that might be unrelated to gender, although made worse by pushing my voice into a range my vocal chords don't like.

Test #5 showed I use twice as much air to speak as the average person.  Test #6 showed this isn't because I am loud, it's because my vocal chords don't quite close when they vibrate and are slightly asymmetric.  Watching mine in slow motion compared to one from a sample patient the difference is obvious.  Other test numbers showed I am using up to 8 times the energy to create the same sound as other people would. 

I have a pretty bad tremor to my voice - a sign of muscle strain.  I could clearly hear it during some of the tests.  This is from my brain learning to compensate for problems by tensing up the muscles in that area. 

During surgery he will work to correct these physical things but I'll also need to re-train my brain.  This is why the results are not immediate - in addition to months of completely healing and settling in, there are voice exercises to do starting 2 months after surgery.  I'll be getting a botox injection to calm down the tremor, but that is temporary and I'll need to train my brain to relax and adapt to my new voice. 

Wow, that is some cool technology!  And what good information to have, in order to fix it.

They measured my natural pitch centered at 149 Hz.  I've been pushing it to ~175 when I try, but after a few minutes I feel the strain and my voice drops.  Dr. Kim said I may be able to settle in at a natural 200-220 Hz.  Based on healing and post-op vocal practice, hopefully around end of this year. 

Kendra,

Thank you for posting such detailed information! This is something I have considered off and on for a while. Just out of curiosity did you spend a significant amount of time trying to train your voice (speech therapist or solo) prior to surgery? I am currently going to a speech therapist, and just wondering if there is only so much I am going to be able to accomplish through therapy alone.

Looking forward to your next update!

Best of luck, Kendra. You're in good hands. This team is very professional. I wasn't a candidate for VFS because of a past botched attempt, but Dr. Kim was able to get my voice into a better place with another procedure. He really knows what he's doing. 

Quote from: Julia813 on February 28, 2018, 01:42:05 PM
> Just out of curiosity did you spend a significant amount of time trying to train your voice (speech therapist or solo) prior to surgery? I am currently going to a speech therapist, and just wondering if there is only so much I am going to be able to accomplish through therapy alone.

I had weekly one hour sessions with a local speech pathologist for 5 months.  Things started out well but I quit when I realized that was the worst experience of my transition.  I'm normally a fan of speech therapists but the one I selected wasn't a good fit for me.  They were qualified as a scientist, co-authored clinical books and I believe wanted the best results for their patients, but made several remarks that really set me back when I believed I was making progress.  Voice is my worst dysphoria - I hated my voice when it changed in 1975 - and that professional made me even more self-conscious.  In hindsight I should have bailed at our first meeting when they told me to never get vocal surgery - don't even consider it, VFS always fails and always damages the voice.  That's like an electrologist saying never try laser and claiming it always fails (the accurate answer depends on many individual factors). 

VFS is risky and the community has seen many results that are terrible.  This is an area where we have to be cautious in who we choose and have realistic expectations.  At my age I don't expect a 70 Hz natural increase, I'll be happy with half that.  Unlike other surgeries this one is messing with a delicate musical instrument.  When someone tells me they selected a particular VFS surgeon I don't judge but I ask what their reasoning was.  If they say it's because the surgeon happened to be within driving distance or offered to add it to a cosmetic procedure I recommend do additional research and be extremely picky about something that is irreversible.

There are many success stories with voice training alone.  Depends on each individual's body and brain.

About to take a nap.  This is the recovery room where I'll spend the day.  Surgery is down the hall. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmdium3pq8i4z53/2018-03-01%2008.17.20.jpg?raw=1)

Surgery starts a bit after 9am.  One hour procedure, they said I'd wake up after about 4 hours.  Can drink water 2 hours after surgery, soup 4 hours after, discharge at 5pm - return to AirBnB apartment.

Hi Kendra;
Best of luck darling. Am thinking of you. Actually I have just got a referral to  a Speech pathologist that specialises in Transgender patients (she also trains Opera singers). Most people already say that I have a natural female voice (I used to sing a lot  and have an excellent range), but since transitioning I really would like to re-join a choir, but I dont want to revert to my male singing voice, so I have signed up for a 8 session course to see if she can help me to be able to sing a female part (I will never have a Soprano range without surgery, but if I can get to Contralto voice I will be satisfied), although I would be very interested in your results (pre and post) after your surgery.
Again best of luck and my very best wishes
JudithLynn

안녕!  난 3 시간 후 깨어 났다.  난 괜찮아, 행성의 반대편에로 리의 트럭에서 안전 해요

Quote from: Kendra on February 28, 2018, 09:40:19 PM
안녕!  난 3 시간 후 깨어 났다.  난 괜찮아, 행성의 반대편에로 리의 트럭에서 안전 해요

너 너 여자 야 너 재미 있다고 생각하니? 내가 너를 때려 눕힐 것이다. 그냥 기다려

Hugs,
   Laurie

Good thoughts and prayers for good results coming at you! Hugs!!!

 Hi Miss Kendra,

I will try to remember you are having some sort of cosmetic work done tomorrow. Isn't makeup better than surgery? Somehow I just can't seen to understand some of the things you do girl. Watch out for splinters in those restaurant chop sticks don't want you swallowing something and hurting your throat. And oh yeah don't eat the insects there either they might have sharps claws. Don't eat the eggs either I've heard they are rotten. Kimchi is okay provided it's not moldy. Well good luck on your vacation girl.

Hugs,
   Laurie

P.S. Can I have the Audie if you decide not to come back?

I love Korean food.  Considered Kimchi as my middle name.
Korea is a step ahead, metal chop sticks are the tradition here.  Easier to clean and ain't got splinter.
I ate a few insects until I learned to keep my mouth shut riding my motorcycle. 
The Audi is gone - I had it converted to an Innie on January 18.

And all of us, thanks so much for the comments and encouragement.  Even Laurie.   :laugh:

Back at the AirBnB apartment now.  They sent me with a very nice car and driver who works for the clinic - not a taxi, so the driver knows to avoid encouraging passengers to talk after VFS.  (I don't normally use taxis in Korea - prefer subway and trains).  Same driver will provide a ride to the airport a week from now.

In addition to the pre-op meeting yesterday, Dr. Kim sat down and carefully explained several things this morning.  I admire how careful his explanations are, never rushed.  I can see his eyes quickly scanning numbers.  Based on measurements he expects my initial voice may sound lower or similar (1 month later when I can carefully speak), by month 2 should gradually improve and that's the point where I can start voice exercises.  At month 3 or 4 the botox wears off (I'm getting injections into that muscle next week), and without botox I'll be relying on training to get used to my new voice.  By month 5 or 6 the goal is naturally hit a higher range with continued improvement physically possible for a full year.  Once I hit the desired range the goal isn't to keep going higher - the point is to develop a natural female voice.

In the surgery room while the anesthesiologist was making adjustments, Dr. Kim placed his hand on my shoulder - didn't have to say a word.  He does care.  I can see it in his eyes. 

There is so much to human language.  In my failed attempt with a professional trainer I did learn interesting things about inflection, choice of words, how body language and posture directly affects speech.  When you hear a female radio announcer you can hear them smile - it shapes their words.  And that's another area where I disagreed with my local speech therapist - criticized me for listening carefully to female radio announcers since some might have bad speech patterns - an additional reason I decided to bail on that particular speech therapist.  I will continue to listen and learn from female radio announcers without guilt - it's my body and my future.

After the sleepy stuff wore off from surgery I met briefly with Dr. Kim again - he showed before and after photos of the surgical site and carefully explained what he did.  I can see my vocal chords are now symmetric, they were not before.  I'll ask for copies during a post-surgery meeting 6 days from now (they might send them to me regardless - they have been very accurate and thorough with information). 

Medicines every 8 hours for the next week, mostly to help avoid coughing. 
- Cough suppressant pill
- Another cough suppressant pill
- Cough suppressant syrup
- Antibiotic
- Digestant
- Analgesic

Really doesn't hurt much right now - just a sore throat which is understandable.  I was expecting a sore jaw from having my mouth jacked open for surgery but it isn't sore at all.  No visible marks or bruises anywhere.

And a goodie bag!  Contains post-op instructions (they also sent a 51 page PDF before surgery).  One week of medications - basic stuff to suppress coughing, an analgesic and an antibiotic.  The pink bottle thingie is a USB-powered humidifier (handy if someone was returning to Arizona, or wants to annoy people on the flight home).  An airline-type travel kit.  And - this is really cool - a nice quality Yeson writing book with blank pages, first several pages contain post-op summary instructions and common phrases in Hangul (Korean Language) and English.  They also packed dinner, same as lunch which I found quite yummy. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/obawxh1xkq28bxk/2018-03-01%2017.29.46.jpg?raw=1)

Hi Kendra,
I hope you find your new voice, good luck! 
Do you think you will upload a before and after once your vocal cords have healed and you've trained through the last part?

Kind Regards,
Sonja.

I'll definitely upload before and after recordings - I'll add them to this thread in the future.  Day before surgery, and every 3 months for one year. 

People here at Susan's have helped me so much.  It's the least I can do. 

After this surgery I require a smaller endotracheal tube for anesthesia, cis-gender female size to avoid damaging the smaller vocal chord opening in my larynx.  My next surgery (FFS) is 2-1/2 months from now. 

Dr. Kim wants me to send voice recordings every 3 months to check progress and potential issues (and of course welcome to contact them any time).  And although they don't require it, I will visit Seoul near end of 2018 for a follow-up.

Quote from: Kendra on March 01, 2018, 04:45:40 AM
I'll definitely upload before and after recordings - I'll add them to this thread in the future.  Day before surgery, and every 3 months for one year. 

People here at Susan's have helped me so much.  It's the least I can do. 

After this surgery I require a smaller endotracheal tube for anesthesia, cis-gender female size to avoid damaging the smaller vocal chord opening in my larynx.  My next surgery (FFS) is 2-1/2 months from now. 

Dr. Kim wants me to send voice recordings every 3 months to check progress and potential issues (and of course welcome to contact them any time).  And although they don't require it, I will visit Seoul near end of 2018 for a follow-up.

Hi girly,

Glad to hear that everything seems to have gone well for you. Wow no talking for quite awhile huh? I sure Beth and Saha will enjoy the peace and quiet.
  Enjoy the rest of your vacation.

Hugs,
   Laurie

Sent from my LGL44VL using Tapatalk

Kendra, this thread is beyond amazing--truly a wonderful resource for those of us seeking more knowledge about this procedure. I hope you are feeling great! Eat some delicious Korean food for me!!! I think I am the most jealous that you get to eat Korean food, hubby and I were just mentioning last night after watching Let's Eat 2 that we need to plan a trip.

Now now Laurie.

We are not looking forward to a month of silence, seems like a long time!

Kendra, I am so happy this went well for you.  Dr. Yeson's care sounds excellent, and your preperation was top notch.

I'm still pushing through lessons on speech mannerisms and such, working on pitch and resonance.  I'm hoping that my voice can sound reasonable for an older woman (I'm 64) without surgeries, so my FFS this year might be my last transition surgery. (I can hope, anyway...)

Thank you!

I was surprised to wake up this morning without a sore throat.  Ate breakfast, no issues.  I normally drink a lot of water and that's on their list of recovery requirements.  If I hadn't seen the surgical site photos yesterday I would find it difficult to believe the operation was 20 hours ago.  I am amazed at the accuracy of the process at Yeson and will know in the months ahead if this was a full success.

Kendra, congratulations and thank you for sharing your experience. Bookmarked.

Kendra,

I agree that this thread has been very informative, and thank you for continuing the updates. Also thank you for answering my earlier question. My voice is a huge area of concern for me right now, and I am just hoping that I can improve at least somewhat with the speech therapist I am currently working with. I mean I seriously can not stand to talk on the phone, let alone the concern I have when I am in a new place.

Anyway thanks for the updates, and look forward to continue to read about your progress!

-Julia

Glad to see you living your dream sister! Eat some Korean bar-b-que for me, I love the stuff. And stay warm.

Tia Anne

Quote from: Kendra on February 27, 2018, 07:25:11 PM
Before leaving for this trip I printed out some paper cards - planning one month of voice rest. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/bo280hh02qpa87a/IMG_0081.JPG?raw=1)

Missed one:

"Please help me down from the refrigerator."


- Stephanie

<Laughing silently>  :laugh:

Kendra, Congrats and I hope your healing goes well and smoothly. It sounds like everything has gone well and I am so happy to hear that. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Saha on March 01, 2018, 04:05:42 PM
Now now Laurie.

We are not looking forward to a month of silence, seems like a long time!

Well it is a long time. I'm sure she will find a way to drive you and Beth bonkers and you two will love it.

Hugs to all three of you.
   Laurie

Sent from my LGL44VL using Tapatalk

Kendra,

Let me add my thanks to you for this thread. I decided some time ago that the Yeson clinic was my 1st choice for VFS. Heaven knows when I'll have the money; but when I do I'm going to hunt you down and pick your brain clean.  :)

I'm curious why you scheduled VFS before FFS. The potential for damaging and undoing the vocal surgery due to a careless anesthetist really scares me.

All the surgeons I scheduled are aware of each other, and the timing.  :)

I figure any high quality surgeon will be working with a careful anesthesiologist, and during any pre-surgery meeting I'll make sure they are aware of the smaller endotracheal tube requirement.  FFS is scheduled with FacialTeam, they work closely with Yeson and the surgeons have presented their findings together at conferences.

The timing between previous surgery (GCS) and this week's surgery was a bit thin (6 weeks), but I'll have 2-1/2 months before the next one, and a fourth surgery 7 weeks later.  Yeson requires a minimum 2 month gap after VFSRAC.

Congrats Kendra on another big leap forward and thanks for the detailed glimpse of the process at Yeson ... I may find my way there in the fall... I am checking out an option a bit closer to home first though... I have an appointment next month at UCSF for VFS evaluation and consult...

Happy Healng Sister!!!

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

Kendra,  I can't keep up with all your medical adventures! I'm very glad it's gone well,  and I hope you're recovering well. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Thank you!

Post-surgery meeting 6 days after surgery.  VFSRAC recovery wasn't bad at all.  So I didn't sit still. 

Took the new high speed rail from Seoul Station to Jinbu in the PyongChang area, site of the 2018 Winter Olympics.  Obviously I missed the games (and the traffic) but it turned out to be a great day trip.  Seoul was a bit smoggy and cloudy that day, the mountains were clear and sunny.  There was snow on the ground but it was surprisingly warm - had a very nice walk in the mountain air.  Then back down the hill for tofu soup and bibimbap. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/616gi1vfzlle264/2018-03-03%2012.39.29.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/doi3fii6z63xxtc/2018-03-03%2015.56.42.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9741ai2jk8pkyy0/2018-03-03%2012.33.58.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6zl8b55on1a274y/2018-03-03%2016.11.04.jpg?raw=1)

Here's how I order food when I can't talk. 
1. Always carry the slip of paper that says 제가 성대 수술을 받아서 말을 하면 안 됩니다 (I've had voice surgery and can't speak).
2. Find a restaurant with one of those cool displays in the window.  Food demo!
3. Take photo of what you want, show it to the restaurant.
There's also a bunch of GS-25 ("open 25 hours") mini-marts all over the place with pretty good food.

If you plan to use the subway, purchase a "T-Money" electronic card (easier to do everything before voice surgery).  Once you have the card it's easy to reload using machines in the subway stations.  Taxis cost a lot more and get stuck in traffic. 

Next day, weather cleared in Seoul so I headed to 경복궁 (Gyeongbokgung Palace).  It's definitely on the must-see list in Seoul, been there before but I always enjoy it.  Subway station drops you off under a museum.  A special treat this time was people walking around in traditional Korean clothing.  I really like the last photo of these three.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a7lc4hg19wb1m2l/2018-03-05%2016.31.41.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvowr3tnhonkieo/2018-03-05%2016.40.45.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gcpht3yoew1i67e/2018-03-05%2016.54.37.jpg?raw=1)

And then I took a slow train into the east-central mountains.  Left in the morning, arrived in the mountains early afternoon.  This involved making a reservation for four trains from Seoul - I usually use the service counter at Seoul Station but figured out how to use the machines this time.  The O-Line heads southeast and then circles a mountain area.  The V-Line goes up a mountain valley.  Majority of trip was on the medium-speed O-Line with swivel chairs facing the window.  Once in the mountains I transferred to the slower V-Line which has huge windows and travels through remote areas.  It was lightly snowing near the top, the train car had a cozy wood stove.  I stood near the stove to thaw out.  This was off-season during a weekday, the cars were mostly empty.   Food options weren't great - a few smaller stations had a row of food stalls, the V-Train stops long enough to get out and take photos at some stations but the food vendors were closed.  I was okay but it's best to bring something to eat mid-day unless it's full tourist season when everything is open.  Returned to Seoul at 10pm.  Really glad I made this trip.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq3ae1lpmh0y1k4/2018-03-06%2008.18.32.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ow15q2bd4kzbf5g/2018-03-06%2008.15.21.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/57smyq21szbhund/2018-03-06%2013.27.15.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/45rhyyni6k350r8/2018-03-06%2013.41.18.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/pd6qrftham376x2/2018-03-06%2014.03.16.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1k328xh33go1d9m/2018-03-06%2014.11.11.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xra9xikbhv2lcbl/2018-03-06%2014.41.20.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0tchodqiqbk7q8/2018-03-06%2015.44.58.jpg?raw=1)

So... about my gender.  This is my first trip here after visibly starting transition.  Zero issues.  The funny thing is, several times men have started up conversations - in Korean language or in English.  I've never had that randomly happen in previous years.  In one of the mountain towns a friendly group of four guys tried talking me into moving over to their seating area.  I showed my "sorry I can't speak" card, they were still talkative - one of them asked (in English) if I am Russian... not sure if that's an honest guess or a pick-up line. 

Nice pictures girl and you are looking great too. Don't have too much and forget to come home.

Hugs,
    Laurie

Stunning pictures and some wonderful travels, I'm very jealous on all counts. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Ms Kendra you absolutely amaze me.  You breeze through major surgery with a smile on your face and sort of have little more complication than brushing your hair (I know that isn't totally true) then you go galavanting around the world for more surgery looking evaen more beautiful and happy.  Truly awesome on all counts.

Besides you keep giving so much useful information through it all.  Go Girl!!

Post-op follow up meeting. 

Spent a half hour going over voice training I'll need to start in May.  Modified vocal chords require training for brain/muscle coordination and the adaptation process may require up to a year.  Timing isn't automatic - they study each patient's vocal profile and adjust for unique issues if found.  In that 30 minutes the voice training Yeson's staff provided was more clear and easier to understand than what I'd received during many hour-long sessions with a local speech pathologist in Seattle.  They went over posture, breathing, how to stretch and massage muscles that affect voice.  For the actual voice lessons, I can't speak yet so they explained and demonstrated each step along with written instructions and a USB memory stick with additional details and videos. 

Dr. Kim ran the tiny camera waaaay up my nose again to photograph the surgical site.  Having a probe shoved that far into the sinus area is a bit freaky but not too painful - he applies a local anesthetic using special instruments.  And great news, the first week of healing is correct with no apparent complications.  I can start speaking in April. 

Here's Jessie, Chief Manager at Yeson - she speaks fluent English.  She is awesome!  Dr. Kim's language skills are also excellent, and his English handwriting is better than mine.  If I look a bit nervous in the second photo that's a minute before I had Botox injected all the way into my neck. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zhj6hdrww52utq/2018-03-07%2017.56.33.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ly6kke8j04xkreq/2018-03-07%2017.54.41.jpg?raw=1)

Jessie promised the injection wouldn't hurt and she was right!  I was nervous having a needle shoved through my neck into the vocal chord area but I could not feel the actual needle.  They placed a gauze pad on my neck, maybe that helped distract.  Before doing that they placed a couple electrodes on my neck, I wasn't sure why - and then I could hear an audio signal.  When the needle was applied the sound changed.  The sound apparently helps guide the process and it went very fast, a couple seconds.  I was surprised when they told me the injection was already finished.  I wish electrolysis had been this easy.   

And here's Goodie Bag 2.0 - contains several pages of lab analysis, Dr. Kim's handwritten notes, USB key with photos and videos, and straws to assist with voice training.  A prescription medication is provided, start that after Botox wears off in a few months - they will coordinate when to start based on audio files I'll send every 3 months.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5jmgjnpxhn6639/2018-03-08%2008.24.53.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9d8uly6om3qh19/2018-03-08%2009.23.04.jpg?raw=1)

VFSRAC at Yeson includes a free in-person check-up within a year.  Seoul is a long drive from Seattle but I plan to come back near end of this year.  Flying coach with advance purchase the airfare isn't too terrible and I want to do everything possible to develop the voice I want. 

VFS isn't always the right answer but I am glad I did this.  Really looking forward to this fall/winter when I hope to have my new voice settled in. 

Thank you so much for providing so much detail of vfs and you trip. You are an amazing traveler and planner 😀

Kendra - Thank you for providing all the updates, appreciated. Hope it keeps going well for you.

Sonja.

 Thankyou , your posts are wonderful and you are beautiful!

Quote from: Kendra on March 06, 2018, 11:34:07 PM
Took the new high speed rail from Seoul Station to Jinbu in the PyongChang area, site of the 2018 Winter Olympics.  Obviously I missed the games (and the traffic) but it turned out to be a great day trip.  Seoul was a bit smoggy and cloudy that day, the mountains were clear and sunny.  There was snow on the ground but it was surprisingly warm - had a very nice walk in the mountain air.  Then back down the hill for tofu soup and bibimbap. 

Kendra,

You are certainly very adventurous. I have never been there.

I like riding train, but mostly I take the high speed rail for business. I miss the old-fashioned, slow trains, which I sometimes take to travel the countryside. The Korail is trying hard to attract passengers and introduced some trains for tourism and education.

And the sky in Seoul looks clean, which is exceptional nowadays.

barbie~~

Hi Kendra, well done!  It seems like you floated through this surgery.  I was at Yeson just over a year ago and it all went very well.  From the looks of the goodie bags and voice training stuff, they are evolving all the time which has to be reassuring for anyone looking at Yeson. You don't want them to be standing still! To that end, updates like this are valuable.

My results?  To be honest, I am not sure and don't really care.  I have recordings where I struggle to get down to 220 hz!  I am probably around there these days.  I stopped the doing voice lessons daily in November (had BA done and just lost interest!).  I saw Dr Kim (and Jessie of course) here in Melbourne in November (before BA) and there are still some small things that his computer detected that need work but the improvement voice-health wise is obvious.  Pitch is obvious too.

One thing Yeson did raise was that for patients over about the age of 50 (and may be less if you have smoked) is that the result will vary and the 70hz improvement is best case and cannot be guaranteed.  I was initially taken back by this (I am 56 soon) but it was a good heads-up about what I could expect to achieve.

The other thing to take advantage of if you can is to go an see Dr Kim when he is travelling around the world.  He has visited Australia (Melbourne and Sydney) a few times along with the Facial Team and Marci Bowers.  The opportunity to see him before making a decision is huge!  One thing he mentioned when I saw him in Melbourne 2 months pre-op (I had already booked) was around infection risk.  He pointed out that the surgery site is tiny and the risk is low.  The greater risk is damaging the site afterwards which is why Yeson's post-op regime is pretty conservative.  Better more care than less.

As you can read in this and other threads, these people are very good at what they do and Korea is a cool spot to spend some time. 

They also mentioned age 50+ to me, I had to sign a waiver stating I might not gain as much pitch due to age.  I'm fine with that, even a moderate pitch increase without having to strain would be nice to have.

You may surprise yourself.  I hope so.

It's April and I've been able to use my voice for one full day.  The first few efforts were exactly as Dr. Kim predicted - difficult to speak clearly, initial pitch no better or even slightly worse, and difficult to control.  A few hours later speaking was definitely easier and volume is gradually returning.  He had reminded me to not force it, take it easy for the second month.  Voice exercises start in the third month.

By the end of day one, still difficult but I noticed although my voice alternates between okay and rough, something about it feels better.  I don't think my pitch has significantly changed yet (and isn't expected to for awhile), but speaking at my existing pitch feels better than before.  And there's an odd sensation I'd describe as an upside down falsetto... I can hit low pitches just fine but doing so feels unnatural, like it's on the edge of breaking into a range to avoid.

I don't want to strain what is still healing, so I am not experimenting yet with how high I can speak.  Speaking is still difficult and will be for the next several weeks, but at least I don't have to carry around a slip of paper explaining why I can't talk. 

Not being able to speak was an interesting experience.  Just as GCS recovery caused me to realize how challenging it must be for people who are permanently bedridden, I have huge respect for anyone who permanently loses their voice.  People I interacted with that first month were generally polite but in many cases misunderstood my condition.  On three occasions store clerks responded by writing things down, assuming I can't hear or understand spoken words.  In other cases people spoke more slowly, perhaps assuming I don't have the ability to process language at full speed. 

And there was an upside to being silent.  I was never misgendered in situations where I would have been occasionally misgendered - and I believe my voice has been the cause of that.  But now that I can speak again, the pressure is on to practice and get this voice where I need it to go.  So far so good. 

Kendra!

Thank you for the update dear sister!... I know that VFS will be a journey unto itself!!!... Thanks for blazing the trail ahead!... I am actually looking forward to the "vow of silence" portion!... Many years ago I had both eardrums ruptured and got to experience being deaf for a while... Now I will get to experience being mute!... In all experiences, there are lessons for us...

Onward we go brave sister!!!

Ashley 😀💗🌻🙏

Quote from: Kendra on April 03, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
Not being able to speak was an interesting experience.  Just as GCS recovery caused me to realize how challenging it must be for people who are permanently bedridden, I have huge respect for anyone who permanently loses their voice.  People I interacted with that first month were generally polite but in many cases misunderstood my condition.  On three occasions store clerks responded by writing things down, assuming I can't hear or understand spoken words.  In other cases people spoke more slowly, perhaps assuming I don't have the ability to process language at full speed. 

Writing stuff down isn't that bad. I went to the hospital with a UTI and they started using sign language on me even though I told them I can can't speak. I am sorry to say, I don't know a word of sign language or I would have responded in sign.

Quote from: tgirlamc on April 03, 2018, 05:09:08 PM
I am actually looking forward to the "vow of silence" portion!... Many years ago I had both eardrums ruptured and got to experience being deaf for a while... Now I will get to experience being mute!... In all experiences, there are lessons for us..

Ha. What a positive outlook you have. I too would like experience those things. I imagine learning to adapt to different sensory deprivations would help your brain to stay super adaptable and agile.

Hi Kendra,

that was a quick month. How do you sound? I assume this week is your first week making sound?

I know after my VFS procedure I was very disappointed because I did not realize I had to let my voice rest and my new instrument was very different than my old vocal instrument. I was impatient.

I do know that 3 months after surgery I was doing much better and now that it is almost 4 months post surgery I see improvement still.

You have a great outlook and I can not wait to hear how you sound. I am 55 and a former smoker (quit for 9 years).

Good luck and you are in my thoughts,

Rach

This is the first week I've been able to speak - and day two was quite a bit different than day one.  Day one my voice was quite a mess but I wasn't worried, Dr. Kim had explained that's how things start out.  Each day is improving, I imagine the improvement is about to get a lot more gradual.  When I think about it I seem to have better control over my voice, but I also stumble about 1/4 of the time.  That's probably what the voice exercises are for, those start next month.  I'm assuming the additional month before starting exercises is to avoid over-using things that are healing. 

I am with my parents right now and yesterday I noticed my pitch seems to be about the same as my mother (she is from Japan).  But the part that makes me self-conscious is I'm currently traveling in Japan, many Japanese women use a very high pitched voice with confidence, much higher than I had ever imagined for my own voice.

It sounds like you are recovering very well. I can not wait for a few more months to pass and learn how well your voice progresses.

Here's a chart Dr. Kim drew while I was there - shows the expected pitch change over time after VFSRAC. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wgfe14qz2ex329/Screenshot%202018-05-02%2008.02.55.png?raw=1)

FYI, I happend to read a past article on VFS in Seoul.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-voice-feminization/

barbie~~

Barbie, thank you for sending the interesting article.  Based on my experience so far (2 months post-op), it's accurate.

Dearest Kendra:

I link you a topic which I've just started.
I refer you some questions about this surgery's recovery process.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240443.new.html#new

Kendra!
Thanks for the very detailed thread on this subject. I just found it and have found it to be very informative. BTW, I followed Tia and Debi's wedding thread. You look like your recovery has gone well. I will be starting VFT in a week or 2. I'm waiting for the approval. I would be interested in going to Dr. Kim if the therapy doesn't help. I have one concern about the first month of recovery. As an ex smoker, I was wondering what would happen if I did cough in the first month? I quit smoking over a year ago (age 60) but I still cough a bit now and then. I still have to clear my throat all the time. I would be very worried about this if I do go for VFS. Any thought?

Thanks and hugs girl,
Donica.

If your natural voice isn't too far out of range VFT (therapy/training) might work well, and you should gain skills that are necessary regardless of VFS. 

I am not a good reference point for smoking anything other than a few rare exceptions.  Yeson Voice Center will advise against any coughing during the first month if at all possible.  I think you're doing the right thing trying VFT before VFS. 

Hi Kendra,

Congratulations for your VFS!

Could you please answer me some questions?

I did my VFS at Yeson on June 1, I'm starting the third month. I had some pitch increase and my vocal extension is increasing with the exercises, but the female voice perception is not increasing, people are still calling me sir. My problem, I think, is still the resonance.

How was your resonance progress in these 6 months?
Are the Yeson's exercises helping with this?

Unfortunately it is difficult to find a speech therapist who knows about the voice feminization here in Brazil. I'm trying to improve only with Yeson's exercises and with some resonance lessons that I bought from Kathe Perez on my cell phone.

Thank you!

Hi Vanessa, I'm happy with my VFS so far but this is a long-haul process.  Before having this procedure I had friends expect I'd step off the plane from Korea with a completely new voice.  VFS potentially solves only one of several things that form the voice, and even that change (pitch) requires months and potentially a year to physically develop.  And then there's the brain.  Right now I'm finding my brain is holding me back... if I hear my voice crack or get hoarse that's usually because I was trying to speak at what is now too low of a pitch. 

Proof of this is when I sneeze or cough I now sound female.  But I have usually been misgendered when talking on the phone where there are no visual cues.   

I think voice exercises serve two purposes: physical (exercise) and mental (gain the correct habits).  Physical healing is measured in months, but mental changes require re-training things we developed over many years and decades.  Before starting all this I didn't realize how much gender identity in voice is similar to learning a new language. 

I pay very close attention to the way some people speak - especially professional radio announcers.  People I hear as male generally end every phrase with the same pitch and volume they were using.  People I perceive as female trail-off the end of phrases... their pitch drifts up as if it's almost a question and less of an assertion, and volume of phrases trail off without a sharp ending.  The nice part (helps build your confidence) is if you start speaking and realize you forgot to apply anything, you can still "rescue" the phrase by adding that upward-drift to the end. 

Listen to a radio station for a language you don't know and you'll immediately be able to pick out which announcers are male and which are female.  The useful part of this is with a language you don't understand, it's even easier to hear how phrases are formed for each gender without the distraction of processing what it is they are actually saying. 

VFS (if successful) helps MtF transition by enabling a higher average pitch.  I'm able to speak comfortably in a range that strained my voice before, but this isn't about averages - the goal is to form each phrase differently than before.  Requires practice and I still have a lot of work to do.

You're absolutely right, Kendra! Pitch is only one component to the female voice. Unfortunately, thanks to nearly a century-old technology still in use, the phone kindly filters out all of that, laying bare the remnants of our male voices for all the world to hear.

I've tried to adjust my speech pattern when speaking on the phone to incorporate a more feminine variance in tone - mostly learned from observation. The resonance I can damp down to a degree but I find myself unconsciously straining those muscles when either on the phone or speaking to someone I don't really know that well. Of course, that turns my voice into a complete trainwreck but sometimes, just sometimes I can find that perfect blend of resonance and variance in pitch, and I get properly gendered over the phone.

It takes work! I don't mean that it takes practice, it still takes concentration. If I'm tired, I find myself lapsing into the old, flat, monotonous male speech patterns, albeit with a somewhat female-sounding voice.

I had a notion earlier in the week that I've been working the muscles in my throat so much in the last 18 months that I could probably crack walnuts with them at this point!

Get your beauty rest and keep at it! The only way we can get over these hurdles is to keep charging at them until they're finally behind us!

I hit a goal today when my father spontaneously commented my voice sounds different. 

I had asked a few people in person and they told me my voice is better than before, but I haven't really counted that as it may be a mixture of politeness.  And a catch-22: if I am thinking about my voice when I ask that question, my speech patterns may be different than when I'm not thinking about it.

This is the first time I wasn't thinking about my voice and received a positive comment.  It's been 9 months since VFS.  Others have said recovery takes at least a half year and may require more than a year. 

I re-started vocal training a couple months ago with a new speech therapist and the results have been far better than before.  I think it's a combination of being post-VFS and finding a speech therapist I can understand.  The previous local therapist is a well-regarded scientist (has published books in speech pathology) but went way over my brain in comprehension... I found techniques the previous therapist required were baffling.  I won't go into all that here, but an analogy would be trying to parallel park your car while adjusting the spark advance and memorizing the serial number backwards before you are allowed to put your car in reverse.  My new speech therapist uses terms I can understand and treats me as just another human.  If anyone is local to the Seattle area and wants to know more about that, send me a PM.

The main breakthrough with the new speech therapist is she immediately identified I had been literally squeezing my voice with my neck and shoulder muscles... which sounded bad and caused me to tense up even more.  Relax.  She has shown me to start off with sounds and then turn that into speech.  Once I get that, do the same while looking to the left and to the right... if the sound changes too much I'm letting my neck muscles get in the way.  Good posture is essential since this musical instrument (the voice) is powered by air.  Now I have a reason to be an airhead. 

And another breakthrough.  Earlier this month for the first time, I was gendered correctly on the phone in a random setting (a phone call with someone I don't know).  In person I have never been misgendered in the past half year post-FFS but the phone is a different animal... without any visual cues it's just voice and that's where I have learned to expect failure every time.  Since that first successful call a few weeks ago I've been gendered correctly during several calls with people who don't know me.  I'm not anywhere near 100% but I can see where this is going, and with more work I think I'll finally be able to get my voice to catch up with everything else.

Hi Kendra,

That is awesome news. I am very happy for you.

I am wondering if you get the same number of words per breath now as you did pre-VFS? I have notice for myself I use more air and start my air flow prior to or just at the first word in a sentence.

Thanks,
Rachel

Congratulations on your correct gendering on the phone Kendra! I sounds like your new voice therapist uses some of the same techniques as my voice therapist. It is Important to relax all the throat, neck and shoulder muscles. Before beginning any sound and speech exercises, she has me massage my neck and shoulder muscles and roll my head around to help relieve any tension. It's part of her vocal hygiene regimen, along with lots of water, less coffee and stop clearing my throat all the time. UGH!!!

One thing, I'm not sure what she means when she tells me to keep my voice more forward? Her explanation is making the sound come from the face and not from down in the chest. Also keeping the sinuses open during speech. What ever she is talking about, I must be doing it right.

My pitch average is around 217hz and pitch range and there proper use is good but I don't like my tone quality. She says it's not bad but I still hear him. We're working on that but I'm thinking a may still need VFS?

Anyway, I'm glad your back in therapy. I would love to hear your before and after voice. I know this is going to take a lot more work for me.

Hi Rachel,
I wasn't aware of and didn't measure words per breath before VFS but I have a wider range of volume than before and my voice doesn't get tired as quickly.  I think that's due to a couple factors - the surgery may have corrected slightly asymmetric vocal chords as shown in videos taken during before/after exam in Seoul.  And from a bit of professional post-op voice training which is helping. 

Hi Donica,
With a 217 Hz average pitch you probably don't need VFS.  I think tone quality comes from many other factors, some of which are almost reflexive and involve training over time.  I also don't like my tone quality but I am finding it is improving gradually.  I'll record some before/after when I am happy with my voice, probably a few months from now when I hit the one year mark.

Hi Kendra,

Very happy for your success with this and of course another super helpful post. I have been waffling on this but after a year of weekly voice session I still am frustrated at the effort to keep the pitch part, the other bits seem to come naturally. I talk for a living basically and find my vocal cords get tired about halfway through the day where they did not when I spoke at my natural pitch.

Good luck and I can't wait to hear the before and after.

Quote from: Donica on December 23, 2018, 03:51:08 PM


My pitch average is around 217hz and pitch range and there proper use is good but I don't like my tone quality. She says it's not bad but I still hear him. We're working on that but I'm thinking a may still need VFS?

Hi Donica, when you pitch average is 217 Hz, is that with your natural voice, or do you have to "work" to be at that average.  Could you talk like this just at any given time of the day, or do you have to 'switch' to that frequency?

As you can see from my avatar picture, I do not have any visible Adam Apple, which indicates that my voice box is similar in sie to that of a cis female.  My natural voice frequency seems to also indicate this.  I can talk all day long with an average frequency between 200 and 220 Hz, but like you, I do no really like the sound of my voice/its tone quality.
Would a language/speech therapist help with that, too, and what is with the male speech pattern?

For all my life I have tried to sound like a tough man, and now I have to unlearn all of this, and sound like a sweet old lady!

Would you please be so kind and enlighten me a little?
Thanks, and happy holidays!
Linde

Quote from: Dietlind on December 23, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
Hi Donica, when you pitch average is 217 Hz, is that with your natural voice, or do you have to "work" to be at that average.  Could you talk like this just at any given time of the day, or do you have to 'switch' to that frequency?

As you can see from my avatar picture, I do not have any visible Adam Apple, which indicates that my voice box is similar in sie to that of a cis female.  My natural voice frequency seems to also indicate this.  I can talk all day long with an average frequency between 200 and 220 Hz, but like you, I do no really like the sound of my voice/its tone quality.
Would a language/speech therapist help with that, too, and what is with the male speech pattern?

For all my life I have tried to sound like a tough man, and now I have to unlearn all of this, and sound like a sweet old lady!

Would you please be so kind and enlighten me a little?
Thanks, and happy holidays!
Linde

Dear Dietlind! Yes, it is my natural voice now. It varies up and down occasionally but never below the high 190hz anymore. In fact, it feels wierd and forced to try to talk in a lower pitch. Currently my full range is between 184hz to as high as 319hz on occasion but most of the time, in normal conversation, the high end is more like 270 to 285hz.

Yes, most definitely I recommend finding a good voice/speech therapist. As Kendra mentioned above, not all therapist are the same. A good therapist will be able to help you reach a feminine pitch and proper speech pattern and help you to develop the tone quality. There are does and don'ts that your therapist will help you with.

Like anything else, it takes time to develop a natural feminine voice. I have been practicing YouTube videos for years and only just recently started therapy with a qualified therapist. Things are moving along much faster now. Also, the better you recording and play back device, the better.

Quote from: Donica on December 24, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
Dear Dietlind! Yes, it is my natural voice now. It varies up and down occasionally but never below the high 190hz anymore. In fact, it feels wierd and forced to try to talk in a lower pitch. Currently my full range is between 184hz to as high as 319hz on occasion but most of the time, in normal conversation, the high end is more like 270 to 285hz.

Yes, most definitely I recommend finding a good voice/speech therapist. As Kendra mentioned above, not all therapist are the same. A good therapist will be able to help you reach a feminine pitch and proper speech pattern and help you to develop the tone quality. There are does and don'ts that your therapist will help you with.

Like anything else, it takes time to develop a natural feminine voice. I have been practicing YouTube videos for years and only just recently started therapy with a qualified therapist. Things are moving along much faster now. Also, the better you recording and play back device, the better.

Thanks, I better make this as anew years resolution.  Luckily, my natural voice is that high (low female range, like typical for many older women), and I never had a real low voice.  I had to stress my voice box to talk low.  I think the pitch is o problem with me, just the pattern and the way I use my voice!

Merry Christmas
Linde

Quote from: Dietlind on December 24, 2018, 02:36:33 PM
Thanks, I better make this as anew years resolution.  Luckily, my natural voice is that high (low female range, like typical for many older women), and I never had a real low voice.  I had to stress my voice box to talk low.  I think the pitch is o problem with me, just the pattern and the way I use my voice!

Merry Christmas
Linde

I agree Dietlind. I believe the pitch range average is the least think to worry about. You may remember Dorothy from the sitcom The Golden Girls? Her pitch range average was probably more in the androgynous range at best. Still you could close your eyes and know you were listening to a cis female.

More importantly are subtle things like proper use of pitch veriation (intonation), annunciation, resonance, how well your words flow together in a sentance. Choise of words. A wider use of vocabulary, just to name a few.

It is an instrument. And like any instrument it just takes time to develop. Also like any instrument, You need a instructor/therapist to get the best out of it and to avoid any bad hapits.

Quote from: Donica on December 25, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
. Choise of words. A wider use of vocabulary, just to name a few.

I think not even that should be my problem, because I learned most of my English (after the school English from Germany) from my wife, and she was a linguist and university language professor.

But with me, it is how I use the sounds that come out of my mouth.  I trained myself for many years to sound manly (because I was told that I was a man, and very likely overcompensated to make sure that nobody would have any doubt about this), and now I have real difficulties to unlearn this pattern to sound like a female. 
With other words, I have the instrument, but I have no idea how to play it!  :embarrassed:
My therapist feels, I could become a Marlene Dietrich impersonator, because my voice is very similar to hers, and I still have that very slight German accent like she had!  But she had that female speech pattern, which I do not have, and that sucks! >:(

It's all paying attention to the speech therapist AND ourselves, and practice, practice, PRACTICE!

I'm convinced that the only way our feminine voice becomes our default voice is to practice and use that voice constantly.  As my speech therapist tells me, we know we have arrived when we cuss out the driver that cut us off in our feminine voice!

I've been using nothing but my feminine voice for about 18 months now, and the pitch and tensioning for the voicebox to use my head voice is finally becoming my default.  The intonation and prosody still can be a bit rough when I am distracted.  I am using far fewer contractions in my speech, and am enunciating each word more precisely, all part of the acculturated English feminine speech pattern.

It takes time to undo decades of bad habits!

Quote from: Michelle_P on December 27, 2018, 01:18:33 PM
The intonation and prosody still can be a bit rough when I am distracted.  I am using far fewer contractions in my speech, and am enunciating each word more precisely, all part of the acculturated English feminine speech pattern.

It takes time to undo decades of bad habits!

I kind of can cover this up a little with my German accent, at last I think so.  How much of this I have, I don't know.  It might be OK with me, because I was taught by a female language professional.
Everyone of my female friends tells me my speech is pretty OK and convincing, but I don't know whether it is that they want to hear me the way they think I should sound, or if I am really OK in a female speaking way!
I feel that I do not sound convincing a lot of the time.  Again, it is not my voice pitch, it is the speech pattern that I feel is not that good!

What are the chances you will be perinatally mute or have a voice so messed up you can't talk? Is muteness the greatest danger besides say, an infection that kills you (any surgery really)? Could you come out with a really strange voice and they really only have so many tries to fix it before the tissue is all damaged or removed?


What's this cost in total with all the follow ups? I'm guessing air fare to Korea is less then having the surgery done in the states? Wouldn't be nice if we had insurance that actually paid for what it is supposed to? But you know if they covered this every one and their brother would be getting their voice modified to sound like they are on helium or Mr ED and back just for fun.


Sorry if some of my questions are redundant I'm legally blind and my eyes are giving my big problems today and making it hard to read (another 14,000$ procedure that insurance considers "experimental" even though it has been FDA approved for almost 30 years and has restored the eye sight of thousands of people. I have had to raise the money from charity to pay for it, air fare, hotel, food, time off work etc., six times and the foundation is not for profit so they are doing this as cheap as possible. We are the richest country in the world and I have to ask for hand out to get the basic human right of being able to see so that I may work and pay into the system. The tax revenue the country makes vs paying them Social security for their rest of their life pays for the procedure many times over so I don't understand how they can afford to NOT pay for it. That's like quitting your six figure job at work because you can't afford the gas for the hour long car ride to get there. Hey science math and critical thinking are not areas of interest to this countries education system, but good thing guns are legal how else would we shoot ourselves in the foot(feet)?


Is learning how to coach your voice that hard that this is warranted? Or are some peoples voices so deep that no amount of voice coaching would work? I wonder where I lie about 1/3 of the time when calling customer service they call me ma'am before I give my name. I was going to get this as my first surgery after laser hair but everyone tells me to do it last. Not like it matters every time I save the money up for a procedure my eyes go bad and there goes that money. How can people vote against healthcare? They must be the same people that drive around without insurance and just say, I'll just pay extra attention and limit the speeding. Are we a nation of poor risk assessors? 

Moving your voice into the feminine range isn't that difficult unless you have a real low voice (think Johnny Cash). In my case, the best I could do is raise my voice into the mid male range which clearly wasn't high enough to be gendered female. Without surgery, I was 130-140 HZ and I needed to at the very least have a working voice 160HZ or higher. With surgery, I moved to around 220HZ which is a pretty golden feminine pitch.

I always recommend voice therapy before surgery because it's cheap, what you learn will apply after surgery and you know what you require from surgery. If you one of the lucky ones, you will be able to  avoid surgery entirely.

Dena,

I know exactly what you're talking about when you mentioned Johnny Cash. I've spent my life being compared to him voicewise, although I think I sound more like Sam Elliott. That's something that really bothers me, because I don't think I'll ever be able to pass as a real woman no matter what steps I take.

In my fantasy riddled mind I've considered learning sign language so a voice change wouldn't be absolutely necessary. But if I did that I would never feel "complete." I then think that some women certainly have deeper voices. Susanne Pleshett immediately comes to mind. So maybe not all hope is lost after all.

Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 21, 2019, 01:05:11 AM
Dena,

I know exactly what you're talking about when you mentioned Johnny Cash. I've spent my life being compared to him voicewise, although I think I sound more like Sam Elliott. That's something that really bothers me, because I don't think I'll ever be able to pass as a real woman no matter what steps I take.

In my fantasy riddled mind I've considered learning sign language so a voice change wouldn't be absolutely necessary. But if I did that I would never feel "complete." I then think that some women certainly have deeper voices. Susanne Pleshett immediately comes to mind. So maybe not all hope is lost after all.

Can you make your voice like Elizebeth holmes (the fake billionaire theranos, steve jobs wanna be, sure she was a fraud but she changed her voice to that low voice but still sounded like a woman, even though it was lower then most women and lower then mine. Once I heard he talk normal she didn't command the authority so a lower voice is not all that bad as long as its polished and rounded off.


Dena voice surgery got you to 220 from 140 or you had to voice coach to 160 so therapy could get you to 220? I can picture a sine wave in my head but have no idea what a 220 hz voice sounds like. Are there web sites where you can measure your voice somehow? As for voice coaching do you see a SLP that is working on their masters or Phd? I tried working on mine by following youtube videos but my voice just get crackly. Back in my male days if I was excited or in a good mood or doing my sales voice people would make fun of me and say I sounded like a girl. Maybe that's what throws off the reps that call me ma'am when I call customer service so many years of doing a phone voice I just start doing it when ever I pick up the phone. I wonder how many hours or words I spent just spewing BS over the phone?

To me my voice sounds low but when I play it back on a tape recorder (tape...heh I'm dating myself, I mean on the home motion picture machine) my voice sounds higher and I was quite embarrassed and used to try to talk in a barratone voice when I was being recorded. That works great considering people ears are what hears what and not the tape somehow making me sound higher.


I always wondered what makes voices sound higher and lower. Contrapoints on youtube is 6'4" and her male voice isn't that low and her female voice is acceptable. I notice she has no adams apple like myself, but shes also a foot taller. Maybe the adams apple/ hyoid process gives that extra volume? If I had a high pitched voice I would be all set as far as confidence goes, maybe someday. The only time I get comments is sometimes in the morning when Im tired people say "speak up/raise your tone, you sound like a guy".


Dena what does 220 sound like, no I don't know what middle c cut in half sounds like, maybe a celebrity that talks at 220? So are males sub 200hz? Dunno maybe I do have a male voice but I just talk in a fem way. I know I don't have a lisp or gay voice, but I do enunciate and speak out properly. Sometimes a gay voice is all you need to pass as female.

Quote from: LexxiMTF on May 21, 2019, 01:05:11 AM
Dena,

I know exactly what you're talking about when you mentioned Johnny Cash. I've spent my life being compared to him voicewise, although I think I sound more like Sam Elliott. That's something that really bothers me, because I don't think I'll ever be able to pass as a real woman no matter what steps I take.

In my fantasy riddled mind I've considered learning sign language so a voice change wouldn't be absolutely necessary. But if I did that I would never feel "complete." I then think that some women certainly have deeper voices. Susanne Pleshett immediately comes to mind. So maybe not all hope is lost after all.

Woa 5 20 19 did you just start hrt yesterday? Congrats the next two years are going to be like nothing you think, no matter how many hours you spend on these boards. The first step seems so esy now, but I remember the day I wrote "What do you need to see the doctor for?"
HRT - I wrote in little letters then turned the paper upside down and gave it to the nurse quickly. haha makes me laugh now.