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Does Estrogen Build muscle? I am wondering how estrogen builds muscle, if it does, well I guess it should? Like, if one had no Testosterone at all and just estrogen... can you still build muscle under a heavy power lifting routine? I get that Testosterone is the best hormone for building muscle, but can you still build a lot of muscle on estrogen alone? as in no detectable Testosterone?

You cannot build a lot of bulk like you can with testosterone but you can build some muscle and a lot of strength.  You can get a lot stronger than the average male.  Testosterone is required for big bulk but you can build some muscle through other hormones in your body including growth hormone.  You can get a lot stronger through neurological adaptation rather than through increased muscle size.

This is a good article explaining it.  https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/natural-muscular-potential-women/

My own experience since last June seems to bear this out.  I started powerlifting then after two years of HRT and with zero effective testosterone.  Now I'm stronger than before I started HRT.  Right now at age 58 and 178 lbs bodyweight my strength for multiple repetitions is 355 lb deadlift, 272.5 lb back squat, and 175 lb bench press (since Aug).  The back squat is to full depth and not the half squats most people do.  During this time I have built some muscle but not really a whole lot.  I'm still smaller than pre HRT.
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You need testosterone to build muscle.  Boosting Estrogen will not increase muscle mass. Many bikini/ fitness woman are taking supplements( legal on store without prescription) to reduce estrogen level to make it easier gaining mass. What will make your muscle look male or female will depend on how long you have been on hrt. It takes 5 year for all your body cells to convert to female. It will also depend on what kind of training you are doing. Dont overtrain your back/ arms/ shoulder but put more efforts on lower body and abs. You will lose a lot of strenght on estrogen its poved

Quote from: Legit on March 11, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
You will lose a lot of strenght on estrogen its poved

It's only proved by this forum's version of bro-science.

QuoteBroscience is the predominant brand of reasoning in bodybuilding circles where the anecdotal reports of jacked dudes are considered more credible than scientific research.

If someone is a highly developed bodybuilder or strength athlete then they probably will lose strength.  That applies to very few here. 

If someone is of average strength, i.e. they don't strength train or they do so only casually then they can get a lot stronger with or without testosterone.

There are way to many really strong women not on steroids in powerlifting these days to believe this myth anymore. 

It's also just deeply ingrained misogyny to believe a central defining characteristic of women is weakness.
https://youtu.be/4Mr1E08csRA

And you base your "theory" on your protein shake company? Lol

You can build muscle on estrogen, but you will work harder for it than on T in my experience

Quote from: Legit on March 11, 2018, 09:52:24 AM
And you base your "theory" on your protein shake company? Lol

No, I base it on my experience and the experience of many others.  If you have an alternate explanation for me and other strong women then you are free to post it here.


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I am not discrediting anyone, But since I started on HRT I can know longer lift and turn the 200 to 500 pound patients at my job like I used to and I was never a body builder or anything like that now I am having just as much trouble lifting 150 to 200 pound people

Breaking The Myth - Increasing Testosterone In Females = Muscle Accretion And Strength Gains

By Rosie Chee

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/myth-of-women-lifting-heavy2.htm

Whilst testosterone levels in females may influence physiological adaptations to resistance training, studies indicate that muscle accretion and strength gains happen with or without an increase in testosterone (Kraemer & Ratamess, 2005).

Muscle accretion, strength gains, or fat loss in a female are NOT dependent upon their testosterone levels.
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The article references 15 studies and says essentially the same thing as the so called protein powder article you disparaged. 


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The subject is building strength.  Building strength involves working out. 

If one isn't working out then yes, with significantly lower testosterone there will be strength loss.

In an untrained person the strength loss can be totally reversed and increased with strength training without any testosterone at all.


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 You can build muscle on estrogen. I had my orchi back in 1994. Just 4 years ago, I had some nice muscles on my arms from working out , not even power lifting. I am talking about "more muscle than I had at any other time in my life".

Just to satisfy my interest I looked up the female powerlifting records for my weight class.  This is for tested women meaning they were not taking anabolic steroids.

Open Women 181.7 lbs
Squat. 330.7 lbs
Deadlift. 418.9 lbs
Bench Press. 203.9 lbs
The record 3 lift total is 914.9 lbs

http://www.uspa.net/drug-tested-ipl-world-raw-powerlifting.html

Yes, you can be strong without male levels of testosterone.


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I do a 6.5 mile hike on Saturdays with a 60 pound pack. climb 33 flights of stairs at a time, do 50 squats and 50 angled pushups at 0500 at work. At night I do 25 squats with 25 pounds, 10 pushups, a 2 minute plank, 45 second side plank each side then 30 minutes on the treadmill at a steep angle. I am increasing weight and reps. I need to increase upper body workouts.

I have very firm muscle and I can perform at a high level against a male. I will never be able to bench 300 pounds on a reverse pyramid again and I do not want to.

I have solid lean muscle made on just E with zero T in my body.

Deborah, I really want to get back into a gym and dead lifts, bench work and weighed squats. I commend you. My old personal trainer still has 2 state records for her class. She is 59 years old. She is solid lean muscle.

Once your T is low, weight or resistance training will build strength without muscle bulk.  You'll get stronger, leaner, longer, shapelier, muscles that look nice and support your body's metabolism, protecting against diabetes.  And it will make you happier.
I prefer circuit training and Pilates to dumb weights at the gym.  Or PT when I can afford it.


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Quote from: MichelleC on March 13, 2018, 07:26:39 AM
Once your T is low, weight or resistance training will build strength without muscle bulk.  You'll get stronger, leaner, longer, shapelier, muscles that look nice and support your body's metabolism, protecting against diabetes.  And it will make you happier.
I prefer circuit training and Pilates to dumb weights at the gym.  Or PT when I can afford it.

I'm just the opposite and don't really like circuit training although I do like running outside.  I didn't like weights either before HRT but now I look forward to each session.  That really sounds like a contradiction. [emoji15]. One thing is that on my heavy and volume days it's the closest my mind can have to an out of body experience without using drugs, LOL.



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