Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm not sure if this is a rant or a feeler for some advice or maybe a little bit of both.

Back in December I was stopped on the Parkway here in Virginia and cited with reckless driving by speed. The cop said I was going 81 in a 45, but I wasn't aware of that (I have later learned I was in the midst of a manic episode).

Anyway, in Virginia, they take this stuff very, very seriously. It's very common to go to jail for such a charge. The lawyer told me I'm looking at a 50/50 chance of going to jail and that it would most likely be a week if I did (but I got the feeling that was guess work).

I have court in 6 days. I'm not really prepared. I've been wrapped up in medical/mental health/financial and work related drama. I'm so overwhelmed and feeling very sad.

I think if I was cisgender maybe this would be different...but I have a lot of anxiety over strip-searching, where they'd put me (which ward as the jails house both males and females), whether I'll be given access to HRT, etc. I've been on hormones 5 years and am legally female, and the lawyer didn't seem to really grasp the issue when I brought it up. I mean...it's Virginia.

I don't mean to feel bad for myself or dismiss the seriousness of the charge...but I do try to be a good person. I try to be kind, I volunteer hospice, with the SPCA, the elderly. I really do care and am I feeling a bit down on myself for what I did, and dark about the potential consequences.

Oh, yeah, and it's my birthday. :(

Don't know how it works ther but here we can get and carry a treatment and care letter from our therapists. Even if we are not fully transitioned the letter dictates the gender you are treated as

Wow I never knew you could go to jail just for one speeding ticket that is insane, I have know idea what your laws are in Virginia but I would have been locked up a few times. Did you tell your lawyer all the stuff you volunteer for and that some times buys credit with the judge and may get you a reduced sentence. I hope everything goes well for you please keep us posted 

Quote from: Donna on April 12, 2018, 11:55:53 PM
Don't know how it works ther but here we can get and carry a treatment and care letter from our therapists. Even if we are not fully transitioned the letter dictates the gender you are treated as

Well, as I said, my LEGAL gender is female. However, I don't believe that has much bearing on placement in incarceration. I'm hoping if I DO go to jail (hoping I don't, but if I do) that I'll be placed in medical or else solitary.

Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on April 12, 2018, 11:57:21 PM
Wow I never knew you could go to jail just for one speeding ticket that is insane, I have know idea what your laws are in Virginia but I would have been locked up a few times. Did you tell your lawyer all the stuff you volunteer for and that some times buys credit with the judge and may get you a reduced sentence. I hope everything goes well for you please keep us posted

The issue is that it's not a speeding ticket or traffic infraction. It's a class 1 misdemeanor, which is the highest class, right below a felony. Virginia is considered particularly virulent on these charges. We will be bringing up my volunteer work, but I hate to use it as a bargaining chip. It seems disingenuous.

https://jalopnik.com/never-speed-in-virginia-lessons-from-my-three-days-in-1613604053/amp


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Quote from: Gertrude on April 13, 2018, 12:04:34 AM
https://jalopnik.com/never-speed-in-virginia-lessons-from-my-three-days-in-1613604053/amp


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Yes, I've seen this article.

I've been taken to jail for speeding like that, but once it went to court it was just a fine.  Think positive, be respectful.  You'll do alright.

Bari Jo

Wow this is awful... I'm so sorry you're going through this. To have been in a manic state and not even realize the potential risk of what you were doing... that's scary. Is there any way your lawyer can include a doctor's letter in your case stating that this was due to a medical problem? It just seems absurd you would get 6 days. I clicked the link about Virginia but there has to be exceptions?

By the way I'm soon going to trial to have a dwi I got last september dropped. I'm also thinking a civil suit in my case for false arrest may happen. It really sucks.

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Quote from: Allison S on April 13, 2018, 12:12:37 AM
Wow this is awful... I'm so sorry you're going through this. To have been in a manic state and not even realize the potential risk of what you were doing... that's scary. Is there any way your lawyer can include a doctor's letter in your case stating that this was due to a medical problem? It just seems absurd you would get 6 days. I clicked the link about Virginia but there has to be exceptions?

By the way I'm soon going to trial to have a dwi I got last september dropped. I'm also thinking a civil suit in my case for false arrest may happen. It really sucks.

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I was terrified that I was going to get a DUI a couple nights ago on top of everything. I went to a winery and insisted on only having ONE glass because I had to drive. Well...2 hours later I got pulled over for swerving on a winding road. Cop was super sweet but saw the wine bottle in the backseat and made me do a FULL field sobriety test.

I was terrified I'd blow the breathalyzer, but my BAC came back 0!! The little cuss!

It sounds like you have a medical issue causing it and could use that to say you're not at fault, but you might also lose your license doing that. But it doesn't actually seem safe for you to drive.

Yeah, Virginia is pretty bad. At least the insane processing fee (I think it was in the area of $1,200) per ticket got struck down. They are very quick here with reckless driving and up to attempted manslaughter for traffic infractions.

For your specific case: I don't think you should feel bad for using your volunteering along with some of your medical history. You are working hard to be a good person, you are getting help for your issues and it has been the first time. In the end you need to discuss this with your lawyer since using the medical parts could really mean you could use your license until you can prove you are better. Not sure if you could work with that.

Good luck with your court date and let us know how it turns out!

Quote from: yayo on April 13, 2018, 12:02:46 AM
Well, as I said, my LEGAL gender is female. However, I don't believe that has much bearing on placement in incarceration. I'm hoping if I DO go to jail (hoping I don't, but if I do) that I'll be placed in medical or else solitary.

The issue is that it's not a speeding ticket or traffic infraction. It's a class 1 misdemeanor, which is the highest class, right below a felony. Virginia is considered particularly virulent on these charges. We will be bringing up my volunteer work, but I hate to use it as a bargaining chip. It seems disingenuous.

I know what you mean when you say it seems disingenuous but on the other hand you are a good person you do not harm or hurt anyone  you volunteer and that can mean alot and good people make honest mistakes you are only human so play of your strengths (Volunteer) and certain weaknesses (medical). I am not saying do this all the time but you had a one off it happens. Bargaining is always done in the legal system.

If you are legally female, you should be placed in a women's ward/pod. A strip search is inevitable, and at that point they may try putting you in with the men. If it comes to that point, you should be able to request to be put in isolation/solitary or the like. Explain that you feel that you'd be susceptible to attack/sexual assault. Worst case scenario, claim to be suicidal. They'll have to put you in isolation for suicide watch.

This is just my limited experience here in New Mexico. I'm not sure if you're out to your lawyer, but you may want to confide in him so you can get his best representation should you actually have to serve time. He may be able to negotiate probation/community service.

My thoughts are with you. I'm hoping things go well for you.

As much as they should go by if your legally something or not or take into account that we are trans the odds are better they will use if your post op or not as one of the deciding factors. I would guess you would get segregated with others who are high risk of being hurt in the gender housing areas. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: StacyRenee on April 13, 2018, 10:14:30 AM
If you are legally female, you should be placed in a women's ward/pod. A strip search is inevitable, and at that point they may try putting you in with the men. If it comes to that point, you should be able to request to be put in isolation/solitary or the like. Explain that you feel that you'd be susceptible to attack/sexual assault. Worst case scenario, claim to be suicidal. They'll have to put you in isolation for suicide watch.

This is just my limited experience here in New Mexico. I'm not sure if you're out to your lawyer, but you may want to confide in him so you can get his best representation should you actually have to serve time. He may be able to negotiate probation/community service.

My thoughts are with you. I'm hoping things go well for you.

Traffic cops are supposed to enforce safety. But let's face it. They are just "revenue enhancement" for whatever jurisdiction.  I respect the law but sometimes the punishment does not fit the crime. Zipping down California highways at 70 mph and being passed like your standing still is common on LA freeways. I spent one night in jail in the 80's. Most everyone there were crack heads,

I got nailed by Barney Fife in a southern state a few years ago. I had to go to court to fight it. I thought I was also in big trouble. The cop was a d***. Typical southern corrupt jerk. I knew at this time that I had to get a good lawyer WHO WOULD LISTEN to everything I said. I talked to about five different lawyers until I found one that took the time to listen and care about what I said. It seems your lawyer is not giving you your dollar's worth. My lawyer got a three month extension from the court in order to get plenty of evidence and documentation from the cop's office. The lawyer actually went out to the spot and took pictures of the crooked (was bent from high winds) speed limit sign and other things -- high grass, road conditions, sunlight refraction (blinding light) for that time of day, etc. He called me with updates. He had me get my driving records for the last three years (no violations) from my state office. He cared and he was prepared. It blew me away that he did all this for just $250.00. I thought it would be hundreds more for all the work he did. Turns out, he hates the local cops. He loved taking them to court. He worked very hard.

Long story short -- I never had to say a word to the judge or anyone. My lawyer did it all. The cop got upset that we had done so much to fight him. The judge told him to calm down. I won! No charges.

Get a court extension. You can do this without a lawyer. Then find a better lawyer. One who cares. Take the time. Worked for me....

Contact Lambda legal for help

https://www.lambdalegal.org

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Can you demand a jury trial? At least someone in the jury will have driven that fast in their life and be sympathetic. Also, ask the attorney how much he knows about the judge and prosecutor. Maybe some deal can be had. Be ready to offer to attend traffic school and if you've had any changes in meds they might buy that you've proactively taken steps to prevent this from happening again. Any medical angle will likely require a waiver of HIPAA protections and documentation. I wonder if probation might be an option too. 

Quote from: MicheleAdams on April 13, 2018, 12:25:51 PM
Can you demand a jury trial? At least someone in the jury will have driven that fast in their life and be sympathetic. Also, ask the attorney how much he knows about the judge and prosecutor. Maybe some deal can be had. Be ready to offer to attend traffic school and if you've had any changes in meds they might buy that you've proactively taken steps to prevent this from happening again. Any medical angle will likely require a waiver of HIPAA protections and documentation. I wonder if probation might be an option too.

I was diagnosed after the incident. I'm sure I CAN ask for a trial jury, but that would extend the process and I'm not sure it would help.

I'm really sorry this is happening to you. My dad is a cop and I asked him exactly about your situation. I don't know exactly what it's like in your state but my dad told me treatment of trans inmates is pretty standard all over the USA as far as county jail time goes. This is what happens here in Denver. They will ask you if you have had surgery. No matter what answer you give you are going to be strip searched. If you haven't had surgery you will be strip searched by male officers. If you say you have had surgery you will be searched by female officers. But if you lie and say you had surgery when you haven't the female officers will leave as soon as they see male genitals and male officers will finish the search. It makes no difference what your gender marker says, if you are pre op then you are legally male in the eyes of the state and will be housed with males. You have the option to request protective segregation which is really just solitary confinement for the duration of your stay. How they gender you is up to each person. A preop trans woman is considered legally male so the jail personel aren't obligated to use female pronouns and probably won't.

If you are taking hrt that has been prescribed legally by a Dr they are obligated to give you the same doses of hrt during your stay. They will verify that you are being prescribed hrt and the dosages by calling your pharmacy and requesting your RX records. If you're doing DIY hrt from the internet they aren't obligated to give you hrt while you're there and they won't. Even if you have breasts they are not obligated to give you a bra. Of course you won't have access to makeup. If you still have facial hair they will give you a razor if you ask for one. They won't buzz your hair. They only do that if you go to state prison.

I hope this helps you. I really hope you don't have to spend any time in jail.

Quote from: Julia1996 on April 13, 2018, 09:05:05 PM
I'm really sorry this is happening to you. My dad is a cop and I asked him exactly about your situation. I don't know exactly what it's like in your state but my dad told me treatment of trans inmates is pretty standard all over the USA as far as county jail time goes. This is what happens here in Denver. They will ask you if you have had surgery. No matter what answer you give you are going to be strip searched. If you haven't had surgery you will be strip searched by male officers. If you say you have had surgery you will be searched by female officers. But if you lie and say you had surgery when you haven't the female officers will leave as soon as they see male genitals and male officers will finish the search. It makes no difference what your gender marker says, if you are pre op then you are legally male in the eyes of the state and will be housed with males. You have the option to request protective segregation which is really just solitary confinement for the duration of your stay. How they gender you is up to each person. A preop trans woman is considered legally male so the jail personel aren't obligated to use female pronouns and probably won't.

If you are taking hrt that has been prescribed legally by a Dr they are obligated to give you the same doses of hrt during your stay. They will verify that you are being prescribed hrt and the dosages by calling your pharmacy and requesting your RX records. If you're doing DIY hrt from the internet they aren't obligated to give you hrt while you're there and they won't. Even if you have breasts they are not obligated to give you a bra. Of course you won't have access to makeup. If you still have facial hair they will give you a razor if you ask for one. They won't buzz your hair. They only do that if you go to state prison.

I hope this helps you. I really hope you don't have to spend any time in jail.

I don't mean to counter what your father said, but a couple things are inaccurate for my state. In Virginia, strip searches are actually illegal for all lower class misdemeanors. Even for class 1, though not illegal, the jail is allowed to use discetion.

Also, the standard practice at this jail is to have transgender inmates searched by a person of the gender they identify as. But I honestly don't care about that. It would be similarly awkward either way.

As for pronouns, that's anyone's guess, but this jail DOES have protocols in place for transgender inmates and their standards say I should be put in either medical or with women (though I'm sure the latter is highly unlikely).

Um I think they'll seperate you. There's no way you'll be in with "men"... maybe gay people.. that would be negligence on a jail's part. No matter where that jail is. Though I'm sure it sadly happens... when I was in jail for a few hours they put me in a cell by myself while I was waiting for arraignment. They brought in a trans girl an hour later and she had her purse on her. Thankfully I left soon after. I had 2 guys come to my cell, glare at me and bring me a cheese sandwich.. I later found out I could've gotten a peanut butter sandwich but I didn't know. Anyway I left a bit after that and got some chicken strips [emoji4]

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Quote from: Allison S on April 13, 2018, 09:49:28 PM
Um I think they'll seperate you. There's no way you'll be in with "men"... maybe gay people.. that would be negligence on a jail's part. No matter where that jail is. Though I'm sure it sadly happens... when I was in jail for a few hours they put me in a cell by myself while I was waiting for arraignment. They brought in a trans girl an hour later and she had her purse on her. Thankfully I left soon after. I had 2 guys come to my cell, glare at me and bring me a cheese sandwich.. I later found out I could've gotten a peanut butter sandwich but I didn't know. Anyway I left a bit after that and got some chicken strips [emoji4]

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If I were put with men it's basically the same as being sentenced to rape.

Local jails don't have gangs and dangerous prisoners are isolated from the rest of the population. If you were going away for an extended stay, you would be sent to a high security jail where the bad people are sent. Often local jails have programs where you go to work during the day and you report to jail for the evening and night. The idea is to give you a taste of confinement but not the full experience. I agree that jail is best avoided but it's not likely you will be harmed.

Quote from: Dena on April 13, 2018, 10:48:49 PM
Local jails don't have gangs and dangerous prisoners are isolated from the rest of the population. If you were going away for an extended stay, you would be sent to a high security jail where the bad people are sent. Often local jails have programs where you go to work during the day and you report to jail for the evening and night. The idea is to give you a taste of confinement but not the full experience. I agree that jail is best avoided but it's not likely you will be harmed.

In 2013, I was in county jail like this for a month for felony marijuana possession before I started down the road of transition. There was a trans woman locked up in the men's facility with us. People would talk a lot of smack to her and she was dishing it right back. I only saw a few minor fights take place while I was there.

County jail isn't like state prison. I was scared going in, but as Dena said, they separate the people most likely to cause problems. For the first three days they kept us in our cells in the new intake area to determine how much trouble we were going to cause. I highly recommend being super polite to the COs and any other staff. Those of us that were least likely to cause trouble were then sent to A Block, which meant that you were allowed to leave for work if you have a job. If not, you were given a job on site which pays peanuts, but at least you get to spend 8 hours outside of your cell. I ended up in grounds keeping, which meant I was one of the few people allowed to go outside while working. Those who were considered more trouble were sent to B Block. Aside from meals and one hour of recreation, they had to stay in their cells the whole day. It was often noisy in A Block, but someone that was moved over from B Block said that it was way worse over there. Personally, I would still prefer to be locked up with men rather than put into isolation. I've heard there's a lot of screaming in solitary. Then again, maybe I only feel that way because I'm not a small person.

If this is your first offense that requires a court appearance, I think your lawyer will be able to get you probation.

Have your lawyer (and have a lawyer!) ask for alternative sentencing of some kind.  I.E. home arrest or something.  Make sure your lawyer knows your goal is to not be in jail.

Someone with a penis will probably be put in with men in most places in the US. I can't imagine any transwoman wanting that.