Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

All of these insecurities become even bigger when I think about my ex. We are trying to work things out, he's a gay man who broke up with me because of my transition. But it's been so hard for both us that he finally caved in and decided to give this a try. We're not back together but we're trying. And I'm constantly feeling like I need to prove that I'm good enough or that I can give him all he wants despite not having the physique he was first attracted to, a physique that will probably keep changing thanks to HRT, or that he never signed up for this. It's just so exhausting sometimes. And please I don't wanna hear that I need to leave him or be with someone else, that is all horse crap... I'll have the same insecurities with anyone else.

How do you cope with this? I'm mostly asking to people who actually felt attractive and desired as their assigned gender, who didn't really hate their bodies. I didn't hate mine, I just had this constant noise in my head that wouldn't leave me alone! Yelling all the time inside "I want to be a woman!" That, coupled with my apathy and sadness towards everything drove me to therapy and finally to transition. And here I am... The noise is gone but it was replaced by new insecurities. Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

Anyways how do you cope with this?

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Wow, you described my situation word for word almost. I hated being viewed as a "male". It was so bad that I could never really date another gay guy because I'd want to be a girl and they'd see from the start and RUN. Coupled with other issues I have... it was awful.

We're practically the same age and I really relate to what you said probably the most out of anyone else so far in transition that I know of. It's such a terrible feeling. To see our previous physical "image" and yes beauty (men can be beautiful too, lol) slowly fade...

I just mentioned to my therapist that I don't know where I stand with dating anymore. I went from never getting a second date, to now not being sure if I'm even presentable at all. What or who am I? It's so annoying!! I'm binary I guess because honestly I just wanna be perceived female. Ok it people see me as a trans woman, fine, but I don't want to be "other" anymore.

I can't tell you what to do in your relationship but if he's gay and liked your body as a male, it sounds like a tricky situation. He's not atleast a little bisexual? I mean you're clearly a blossoming beautiful woman and any straight or bi man would be lucky to be with you. I'm harsh on myself too though and it sucks. Until it's proven to me in an obvious way I keep doubting myself.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

I was an attractive man.  I used to get asked out by men and women.  People told me they were intimidated even.  I was always uncomfortable with any of it since I did hate myself, especially my face.  I realize I won't be a beauty as a girl, but being accepted as a girl is what would help me most.  I do not have that yet, but people do accept me and my femme style so it's coming im sure.  Till then I just live day by day.  I dress femme, I wear makeup, I work on mannerisms.  I'm moving forward by surviving and being hopeful for the future.

Btw, like you I dated gay men, but the ones I liked and who wanted a relationship liked the masculine parts of me.  That immediately shut down my attraction to them.  Now I'm honest about being trans.  I'm hopeful to find a man that likes me for me.

Bari Jo

Going off of Bari Jo's comment, I have to agree. I'm wanting to be ultra femme for myself. I don't really care to pay attention to others. Being gay there was a lot to keep up with and I never could because my body was "soft" in feminine places all my life. Things that I thought I should hate, I'm now slowly starting to embrace...

As for the "straights" or general public, I care even less. With so many serious problems in this world... my appearance means nothing. I'm finally (again, slowly, thanks hrt) finding my internal peace.

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The problem I find is that before transition I didn't give a rat's about any of this, and yet I'd have no trouble landing someone just on account of being female, if that's what I wanted. Not to say I didn't care about appearance but I didn't notice it in the same way. Was numb. Now I'm not, now I have nerve endings in regard to that sort of thing and I don't mind looking in the mirror, or I look harder in the mirror at what I see and I care more about what I look like....

I might actually be vain, I'm not really sure, this is new for me. Caring about myself is new for me. Coping with it is strange because I don't consider myself particularly attractive, but I don't want to be unattractive... as I think if someone is unattractive it does subconsciously affect interactions with everyone (maybe only at first but it's a constant thing with every new encounter). It matters less to most men whether they are less attractive I suppose, but even if that's the case I find myself working on things a lot more to improve... but of course I can't hide and flaws behind makeup even if I wanted to, without attracting attention for that. I'm thinking about a few things I might have done, finances permitting, although they'd be minor adjustments. I don't think I'm ugly, but there are things I can see that always stand out to me that maybe others barely even register, and they drive me nuts (and I want them fixed).

So part of coping with stuff like that is the fact there might be options in the future to fix them I guess. Otherwise the only coping method will be desensitization and apathy again.

As for relationships, I've been in a relationship of some form most of my adult life, it's weird adjusting to the idea of not being in one. For now though I'm not comfortable in the existing one, have to figure myself out first and I need space to do it without the look of disapproval following me or whatever. Took stock of all the flaws my partner has and that I have and that maybe we deserve a break from the intensity and all that. Some time to relax and do what I want. Not all that worried at the prospect of not being able to find someone else... I think if you meet enough people you eventually find someone. Third time's the charm, maybe. I'm not going to think about it as it just seems to lead to the same place and I do remember a time in the past when it wasn't on my mind and I didn't require it... trying to get back into that headspace and just enjoy everything else. I'm hoping I don't start to want what everyone else wants or has as it's prob way too late for any of that... trying to focus on career and basic fulfillment and maybe I might meet someone some day who clicks. But if not, just going to try and get the most out of the time left. There's still a lot to appreciate even without that for now.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

All of these insecurities become even bigger when I think about my ex. We are trying to work things out, he's a gay man who broke up with me because of my transition. But it's been so hard for both us that he finally caved in and decided to give this a try. We're not back together but we're trying. And I'm constantly feeling like I need to prove that I'm good enough or that I can give him all he wants despite not having the physique he was first attracted to, a physique that will probably keep changing thanks to HRT, or that he never signed up for this. It's just so exhausting sometimes. And please I don't wanna hear that I need to leave him or be with someone else, that is all horse crap... I'll have the same insecurities with anyone else.

How do you cope with this? I'm mostly asking to people who actually felt attractive and desired as their assigned gender, who didn't really hate their bodies. I didn't hate mine, I just had this constant noise in my head that wouldn't leave me alone! Yelling all the time inside "I want to be a woman!" That, coupled with my apathy and sadness towards everything drove me to therapy and finally to transition. And here I am... The noise is gone but it was replaced by new insecurities. Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

Anyways how do you cope with this?

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You're very beautiful and any man should feel lucky and honored to be your significant other. I don't think you should worry to much about finding somebody that will love you the way you are now. It's not like it used to be when I was growing up when basically gay, bi, lesbian, transgender, and all others had to stay in the closet so to speak or risk possible injury, death, or even being avoided like the plague from ignorant people who didn't or wouldn't accept someone like us. Now this is just my own personal observation, or it may be just my demographics, but it seems to me times have changed and people are more accepting nowadays. I was always pansexual myself with an attraction to men and women, including transgender women, however I think I may have had the strongest attraction to women mostly. I knew though my true gender was female. I had been with men a couple of times and now more than ever I'm finding myself becoming even more attracted to men more than I ever used to be. I'd say I'm 50/50 now with my attraction to both. Anyway just be you and you'll find a man that loves you. You are absolutely beautiful, very hot, and quite sexy. I know with your looks you have nothing to worry about. I'm quite envious myself hehe. I just wish I looked as great as you do. You got this girl lol. Skylar

Skylar

I hated being a good looking man. Being called handsome was the dysphoria inducing. I think I won't ever be much more than average looking as a women, but I don't care! I'm not a man and thats enough.

Quote from: Allison S on April 20, 2018, 08:36:18 AM
Wow, you described my situation word for word almost. I hated being viewed as a "male". It was so bad that I could never really date another gay guy because I'd want to be a girl and they'd see from the start and RUN. Coupled with other issues I have... it was awful.

We're practically the same age and I really relate to what you said probably the most out of anyone else so far in transition that I know of. It's such a terrible feeling. To see our previous physical "image" and yes beauty (men can be beautiful too, lol) slowly fade...

I just mentioned to my therapist that I don't know where I stand with dating anymore. I went from never getting a second date, to now not being sure if I'm even presentable at all. What or who am I? It's so annoying!! I'm binary I guess because honestly I just wanna be perceived female. Ok it people see me as a trans woman, fine, but I don't want to be "other" anymore.

I can't tell you what to do in your relationship but if he's gay and liked your body as a male, it sounds like a tricky situation. He's not atleast a little bisexual? I mean you're clearly a blossoming beautiful woman and any straight or bi man would be lucky to be with you. I'm harsh on myself too though and it sucks. Until it's proven to me in an obvious way I keep doubting myself.

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Hi girl. I'm glad we can relate. If you want shoot me a PM and we can text outside the forum.

No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen. But I don't know what type of woman I'll be... I might be androgynous or natural (no plastic surgeries) I don't know...I think there's a small chance there might be a future for us. Right now I'm just hoping it works and trying that my fears don't get the best of me.

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Quote from: Susan Baum on April 20, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

That's exactly what he fears! He told me that he fought so hard to come out as a gay man that he fears now if he ends up with me as a woman, he'll be sending the message that you can actually "choose" who you like. That you can choose your sexual orientation. That's his main fear (also scared I might not turn him on, but we don't know that yet). How did you help your wife cope with that feeling? I'm trying to get him to go to therapy but he's a bit hard headed.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
Hi girl. I'm glad we can relate. If you want shoot me a PM and we can text outside the forum.

No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen. But I don't know what type of woman I'll be... I might be androgynous or natural (no plastic surgeries) I don't know...I think there's a small chance there might be a future for us. Right now I'm just hoping it works and trying that my fears don't get the best of me.

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We're on at the same time! yeah I def will message you soon. Us girls gotta stick together trying to figure out these men! Ha [emoji4]

Honestly, now that you mention his attraction to femininity in men- it makes a lot of sense. My new friend from trans support group is also dating a man (pre hrt) who's into the same as what you described. I was just telling her, that she's lucky! And her bf is accepting of her being trans and wanting to transition medically with hrt and everything. I think that's awesome!

I think on transition level dosages it's rare someone will be androg. I think womanhood is definitely within reach.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
<<snipped>>
No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:10:53 PM
That's exactly what he fears! He told me that he fought so hard to come out as a gay man that he fears now if he ends up with me as a woman, he'll be sending the message that you can actually "choose" who you like. That you can choose your sexual orientation. That's his main fear (also scared I might not turn him on, but we don't know that yet). How did you help your wife cope with that feeling? I'm trying to get him to go to therapy but he's a bit hard headed.

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I know how serious this is to you but I had to smile at the "choosing" comment. Who among us doesn't choose who or what we like and who says our choices have to be cast in bronze? I used to like broccoli and detest Brussels Sprouts, now... He has spent years refining his preferences to "ladyboys," only to be gobsmacked a dose of reality: sometimes a "ladyboy" is, in reality, a lady.

TBH, I wish I could pinpoint what I did - or didn't - do to help her over her hump. During my CD days, she had gone out of her way to help mold me into who I have become. She had even realized before I that just playing the part was not enough so her fears sort of came at us out of the blue.

When this came up, she and I had been seeing different therapists and her counselor suggest we both meet with mine for a few visits to open up our dialogue. This led to frequent conversations and we both shed many a tear before she stopped fretting about what others may think and left it behind.

I wish I could do this in person... Huge Hug.  :icon_bunch:

Susan

Quote from: Susan Baum on April 20, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

Hi...  I agree.  You are changing and blossoming into an incredible woman.   And you need to surround yourself with love and support.   I am going through something similar with my wife.   She is supportive and an ally, and I love her.  But I don't feel the level of support and love I need to get through this.  And it really hurts.  It's hard for her...its new and she is not attracted to women. 

I am reading a book and it describes two key themes.   One, the empathy and love gap.  And two, beyond gender Dysphoria, a chronic feeling of being home sick, without the physical home. 

The empathy gap comes from our need for love and support as our true selves.  Except gender, physical sex, sexual orientation all being different are really hard to relate to for someone who has never questioned their gender and is closed to our standard social constructs.  And even harder if you are the past lover and are not attracted to the other sex.   It hurts and we need to support each other and find people in our lives. 

Ps. The other dimension of homesick really describes how it feels, beyond gender / body Dysphoria and without the physical home.  I hurts in my chest and stomach to not be home with the real me.  And it hurts even more when people in your life suggest or imply that we should look like the man they love for them.  It feels like abuse and rejection, when you are so homesick and want to be "me". 

You are beautiful and you are not alone.  Hugs

Karen

Thanks girls. One of the things I'm struggling with is my self esteem. He's very handsome and I find him so attractive, it scares me to feel like I'm not at his level. Or that he might think so. It hurts me inside. I just have a lot of insecurities that stem from losing my looks. I don't consider myself ugly, just different to how I was before and I realize that I depended a lot on my looks. So I guess I'm also mourning my old self in a way. This is all so weird and difficult.

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Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice. 

Quote from: Kendra on April 21, 2018, 09:38:48 AM
Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice.

Kendra, that's an amazing analogy!! I loved it and it definitely shows how I'm feeling right now. BTW, looking forward to meeting you in August :)

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Quote from: Kendra on April 21, 2018, 09:38:48 AM
Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice.

I like to think of transition like cleaning or the garage.  You have to make a big mess in the lawn before you can put stuff back nice, neat and cleaner than before.

C.N. you will be even more awesome than you are right now!  Time my friend, time.  You are young, 30? How about 60.

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Quote from: Denise on April 21, 2018, 11:36:59 AM
I like to think of transition like cleaning or the garage.  You have to make a big mess in the lawn before you can put stuff back nice, neat and cleaner than before.

C.N. you will be even more awesome than you are right now!  Time my friend, time.  You are young, 30? How about 60.

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Thanks girl. You are always a great support <3

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I agree with everyone here.
It's weird seeing my masculine facial features (besides stubborn facial hair..) dissipate before my eyes... And what will I be left with? Will feminine features even work on me? Not to brag but I was handsome (according to others).

I'm having to readjust now to see myself as attractive again. But this time I hope I'll finally see it for myself for once.

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ohhh dear, but you're gorgeous... look, bless your heart for worrying about your boyfriend, but seriously, I'm actually kinda jealous of how you look, maybe and just maybe this is an issue of knocking at the wrong door?

you know, He made quite clear He's attracted to masculine guys, and you being a pretty lady is a problem for him, but please don't make it a problem for you, if at the end he doesn't want to be with you because you're not this masculine hot man then I assure you you'll find somebody who loves you the way you are.

Pd: seriously, don't feel depressed, you have what it takes to be with whoever you want.

Quote from: Allison S on April 21, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
I agree with everyone here.
It's weird seeing my masculine facial features (besides stubborn facial hair..) dissipate before my eyes... And what will I be left with? Will feminine features even work on me? Not to brag but I was handsome (according to others).

I'm having to readjust now to see myself as attractive again. But this time I hope I'll finally see it for myself for once.

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All.
Of.
This.

All of it is exactly me. We are definitely going through the same.


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Quote from: Alanna1990 on April 21, 2018, 06:03:41 PM
ohhh dear, but you're gorgeous... look, bless your heart for worrying about your boyfriend, but seriously, I'm actually kinda jealous of how you look, maybe and just maybe this is an issue of knocking at the wrong door?

you know, He made quite clear He's attracted to masculine guys, and you being a pretty lady is a problem for him, but please don't make it a problem for you, if at the end he doesn't want to be with you because you're not this masculine hot man then I assure you you'll find somebody who loves you the way you are.

Pd: seriously, don't feel depressed, you have what it takes to be with whoever you want.

I'm starting to think I'm gonna have to change my profile pic lol. The picture is edited and I was wearing a wig. I don't look like that yet, if I did I would probably get more attention and wouldn't be as insecure.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 21, 2018, 07:36:31 PM
I'm starting to think I'm gonna have to change my profile pic lol. The picture is edited and I was wearing a wig. I don't look like that yet, if I did I would probably get more attention and wouldn't be as insecure.

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Charlie Nicki,
It isn't your hair that is gorgeous, it's your face and those mesmerizing beautiful captivating eyes, and your lips are to die for. You could shave your head bald and your face is still absolutely gorgeous.

Skylar

I am not sure about being attractive, I think I was okay before. I did not date really for almost 3 decades so I may not be the best person to give advice. I can only give my own experiences.

😊 I always thought that I would be promiscuous after transition, it never happened. Not from lack of interest from men though. Seems that I lack something required to be a hussy, who knew. I do get a lot of attention from men however. I don't know why they would be interested in me but they are. I don't know, maybe straight men are less discerning than gay men.

I can't give reassurances about your bf, sorry, I can say say that to be afraid of NOT being attractive as early as you are in the process is silly. You are borrowing trouble. BUT! I understand, I do. I am not a gambler at all, why give up what you have in the hopes of getting something more? Sweetie, it's not giving up anything, it is just giving up the known for the unknown. Transition is a leap of, not faith, but hope.

I think it is Mark 8 um... 36? What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul? I don't know, it's been a while and then some. It's about being happy, what will make you happy babes? Head in that direction and all will be well.

Really, I would not worry about men though. I may never be hot but men don't seem to care one bit. Not even being trans is a deterrent to them from what I have experienced. So head up, shoulders back and go get em honey. 🙂

Charlie, that's a huge topic and I confess I'm really glad you made this post, if sad you're having a rough time.

I first considered transition 20 years ago when I was 40 and not wanting to settle for being at best "handsome" as a female was a primary reason I didn't proceed then. While I'm not given to regrets about life and i accomplished a lot in those years, I can't avoid realizing that all that time only living halfway may have not been optimal :-/. Still, I chose to live knowing I was (still am) an attractive guy, just not the traditionally pretty female I wish I could be.

Having now arrived I can truly say I care far less about my appearance (and yet I enjoy taking time on it and cultivating a personal style, things I never did before). Equally I'm far less judgemental about others appearances and best of all, I'm seeing quite a few women now. Oddly enough, a happy person is fundamentally more attractive than one who's unhappy. Go figure ;-).

Specific to your circumstance I have to say when I walk around the queer parts of town, let alone say Provincetown I find the homogeneity of gay male presentation exasperating. How do thousands of guys want to affect essentially the same damned style??! Anyway, your lover likes feminine guys, maybe if surgery isn't your path, you keep the penis, simply enjoy being a chick who's guy enough to make him happy in bed?

Quote from: FinallyMichelle on April 22, 2018, 12:55:15 AM
I am not sure about being attractive, I think I was okay before. I did not date really for almost 3 decades so I may not be the best person to give advice. I can only give my own experiences.

[emoji4] I always thought that I would be promiscuous after transition, it never happened. Not from lack of interest from men though. Seems that I lack something required to be a hussy, who knew. I do get a lot of attention from men however. I don't know why they would be interested in me but they are. I don't know, maybe straight men are less discerning than gay men.

I can't give reassurances about your bf, sorry, I can say say that to be afraid of NOT being attractive as early as you are in the process is silly. You are borrowing trouble. BUT! I understand, I do. I am not a gambler at all, why give up what you have in the hopes of getting something more? Sweetie, it's not giving up anything, it is just giving up the known for the unknown. Transition is a leap of, not faith, but hope.

I think it is Mark 8 um... 36? What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul? I don't know, it's been a while and then some. It's about being happy, what will make you happy babes? Head in that direction and all will be well.

Really, I would not worry about men though. I may never be hot but men don't seem to care one bit. Not even being trans is a deterrent to them from what I have experienced. So head up, shoulders back and go get em honey. [emoji846]

I thought I would be promiscious too!! So funny lol I mean I don't get too many guys actually approaching me. I'll admit it's nice when a good looking guy looks lol
I didn't like dating as a gay male at all so you didn't miss out on anything there

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Quote from: Lady Skylar on April 21, 2018, 08:33:29 PM
Charlie Nicki,
It isn't your hair that is gorgeous, it's your face and those mesmerizing beautiful captivating eyes, and your lips are to die for. You could shave your head bald and your face is still absolutely gorgeous.

Skylar

Thank you Skylar.

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Quote from: FinallyMichelle on April 22, 2018, 12:55:15 AM
I am not sure about being attractive, I think I was okay before. I did not date really for almost 3 decades so I may not be the best person to give advice. I can only give my own experiences.

[emoji4] I always thought that I would be promiscuous after transition, it never happened. Not from lack of interest from men though. Seems that I lack something required to be a hussy, who knew. I do get a lot of attention from men however. I don't know why they would be interested in me but they are. I don't know, maybe straight men are less discerning than gay men.

I can't give reassurances about your bf, sorry, I can say say that to be afraid of NOT being attractive as early as you are in the process is silly. You are borrowing trouble. BUT! I understand, I do. I am not a gambler at all, why give up what you have in the hopes of getting something more? Sweetie, it's not giving up anything, it is just giving up the known for the unknown. Transition is a leap of, not faith, but hope.

I think it is Mark 8 um... 36? What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul? I don't know, it's been a while and then some. It's about being happy, what will make you happy babes? Head in that direction and all will be well.

Really, I would not worry about men though. I may never be hot but men don't seem to care one bit. Not even being trans is a deterrent to them from what I have experienced. So head up, shoulders back and go get em honey. [emoji846]

Michelle I really appreciate your post, especially this: "What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?" This is something I need to repeat myself and reassure myself that I'm on the right path; I got to this point for a reason and it is true that having everything in the world didn't please me because I wasn't happy with myself. Felt empty.

When it comes to dating, I've read and heard so many sad stories about trans women being perceived as sex objects and nothing more, that it scares me. I just want to have a normal life and a loving partner.

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I also thought I would have a promiscuous phase but honestly I just don't think that's in me lol. It wasn't before when my T was higher as well as my libido, so it sure isn't now.

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Quote from: SadieBlake on April 22, 2018, 09:39:53 AM
Specific to your circumstance I have to say when I walk around the queer parts of town, let alone say Provincetown I find the homogeneity of gay male presentation exasperating. How do thousands of guys want to affect essentially the same damned style??! Anyway, your lover likes feminine guys, maybe if surgery isn't your path, you keep the penis, simply enjoy being a chick who's guy enough to make him happy in bed?

Now that you mention it, before I started transition and I still had a beard and muscles, it would bother me how most gay men looked or strived to achieve the same look. I remember certain occasions when I didn't feel special, like I was just another bearded guy with a cute face or when I felt so weird cuz me and my boyfriend looked so much alike that I thought he essentially felt attracted to himself? It was...strange. In that sense straight couples made more sense to me cuz each person had many things that other didn't have.

And yes I'm hoping this relationship can work somehow. I never really had genital dysphoria so I'm not rushing or needing to get SRS, I did get an orchi but it all looks the same.



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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

Hello Charlie Nicki,

This is me every day. I am a 60 year-old transsexual. I have spent $48,000 on plastic surgery and I'm not getting any younger. I have a failed marriage and two young sons who now have a father who looks like a girl. What have I done?

What I have done is to give myself completely to the roles and responsibilities expected of me every day until I could not take it anymore, until I was self-destructive and no good to anyone. 

What I have done is to have finally found the courage to live an authentic life, with malice toward no one.  If I am judged for my choices, so be it. In the end we are only accountable for ourselves.

I have seen enough of your posts to know at least some of who you are.  You have nothing to apologize for.

Our "children" do not come only from our loins. They are the recipients of our love, our support, and our courage. They may be adopted, they may be from someone's previous relationship, or they may be simply someone you care deeply about and choose to invest yourself in. 

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

Anyways how do you cope with this?

There is no comparison. As an empty shell of a man, I was waiting to die. Actually, I was doing what I could to hasten my death. I still struggle, but it is a struggle to live.

You have been given the gift of life, the advantage of a conscious mind, and the opportunity to do something about it. I cope through the knowledge that I no longer seek defeat. I seek ascendency.

With kindness,

Terri

Charlie Nickie, be happy with who you are, and see where your relationship takes you.  My wife and I have been married almost 18 years, and yes, my transition has put quite a strain on our relationship, but we still love each other and we are still together.

My wife says she is not a lesbian, but...she has some butch tendencies.  She never, ever wears skirts, and likes to be the boss of things.  Yes, our sex life isn't the same, but within the workings of our relationship, things are better with her calling the shots and me being the girl.

If you and your bf truly love each other, there is hope.  Love is love, and you love who you love.

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on April 22, 2018, 01:43:30 PM
Hello Charlie Nicki,

This is me every day. I am a 60 year-old transsexual. I have spent $48,000 on plastic surgery and I'm not getting any younger. I have a failed marriage and two young sons who now have a father who look like a girl. What have I done?

What I have done is to give myself completely to the roles and responsibilities expected of me every day until I could not take it anymore, until I was self-destructive and no good to anyone. 

What I have done is to have finally found the courage to live an authentic life, with malice toward no one.  If I am judged for my choices, so be it. In the end we are only accountable for ourselves.

I have seen enough of your posts to know at least some of who you are.  You have nothing to apologize for.

Our "children" do not come only from our loins. They are the recipients of our love, our support, and our courage. They may be adopted, they may be from someone's previous relationship, or they may be simply someone you care deeply about and choose to invest yourself in. 

There is no comparison. As an empty shell of a man, I was waiting to die. Actually, I was doing what I could to hasten my death. I still struggle, but it is a struggle to live.

You  have been given the gift of life, the advantage of a conscious mind, and the opportunity to do something about it. I cope through the knowledge that I no longer seek defeat. I seek ascendency.

With kindness,

Terri

Thank you for your kind words Terri [emoji813]️, I've seen your posts before and they're always filled with positivity. We definitely need a lot of that! Sending you hugs.

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Quote from: CarlyMcx on April 22, 2018, 06:41:05 PM
Charlie Nickie, be happy with who you are, and see where your relationship takes you.  My wife and I have been married almost 18 years, and yes, my transition has put quite a strain on our relationship, but we still love each other and we are still together.

My wife says she is not a lesbian, but...she has some butch tendencies.  She never, ever wears skirts, and likes to be the boss of things.  Yes, our sex life isn't the same, but within the workings of our relationship, things are better with her calling the shots and me being the girl.

If you and your bf truly love each other, there is hope.  Love is love, and you love who you love.

True, hope is all I have right now. I think fixing my relationship and get it to a point where we both feel comfortable with it and all that's happening will take some time but I'm willing to be patient and I'm willing to put in the work. I'll keep you guys posted.

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Quote from: Maybebaby56 on April 22, 2018, 01:43:30 PM
Hello Charlie Nicki,

This is me every day. I am a 60 year-old transsexual. I have spent $48,000 on plastic surgery and I'm not getting any younger. I have a failed marriage and two young sons who now have a father who looks like a girl. What have I done?

What I have done is to give myself completely to the roles and responsibilities expected of me every day until I could not take it anymore, until I was self-destructive and no good to anyone. 

What I have done is to have finally found the courage to live an authentic life, with malice toward no one.  If I am judged for my choices, so be it. In the end we are only accountable for ourselves.

I have seen enough of your posts to know at least some of who you are.  You have nothing to apologize for.

Our "children" do not come only from our loins. They are the recipients of our love, our support, and our courage. They may be adopted, they may be from someone's previous relationship, or they may be simply someone you care deeply about and choose to invest yourself in. 

There is no comparison. As an empty shell of a man, I was waiting to die. Actually, I was doing what I could to hasten my death. I still struggle, but it is a struggle to live.

You have been given the gift of life, the advantage of a conscious mind, and the opportunity to do something about it. I cope through the knowledge that I no longer seek defeat. I seek ascendency.

With kindness,

Terri

Charlie Nicki,

Hang in there and thank you for sharing your journey.   We all learn together.

Terri,

You are so insightful and powerful in your perspective.   I thought I could relate to the darkness, but had no idea, until the last couple weeks and my recent diagnosis.

Thanks for helping all of us.

Karen

Apologies for the somewhat late reply to this thread. But... that feeling is one I have for 99% of my life. For reasons different to your own. Feelings I struggle with on a weekly, if not daily basis. The emboldened words in the last sentence of your post are significant.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

That's what it all boils down to. That's what you ask yourself over and over and over. If you could go back in time, and inhabit that shell once more. Could you cope with it? Would it make you happy? Could you deal with living a lie. Of people seeing pretty eyes with nothing behind them?

Being around people who can't see me. Can't see what I look like... helped me understand. When that isn't a factor and all you're left with is what's in your soul. The you who you actually want the world to see... the you who you actually want to be... it makes you realise who you are. What you are. Makes you realise what you have to offer to the world and what is really attractive about a person. When someone sees you for you. For your heart. You understand. You are good enough. You're good enough for anything and anyone.

Looks fade, no matter who you are. Man, woman, and anywhere in between. But what's inside doesn't. It burns bright long after the "shell" has lost its lustre. Finding what's inside is more important than anything. And being true to that. Being true to yourself, and being in a position to express yourself. That matters. The love you give is more important than the lust you receive. That's what I learned. And that's how I cope. By holding on to what's within that shell. Within any shell. The true beauty of a person. The beauty you have inside you, no matter what you look like.

Hold on to that. The reason you're doing all this. To be you.

Well I told you I would update you on the situation so here it is: He just told me he doesn't want to do this. He wants a man. Period.

I cried my eyes out. It's over. I wish I could say it's also over in my heart but sadly my feelings for him are still there. And I want them dead.

I wish God or whoever made me this way would give me a light or a guidance right now... I'm back to square one.

Love sucks. Transitioning sucks. Days like this I wish it was all over. I wish I had the strength to end it but I can't do that to my mom.

Anyways that's all. End of this story.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 25, 2018, 10:27:28 PM
Well I told you I would update you on the situation so here it is: He just told me he doesn't want to do this. He wants a man. Period.

I cried my eyes out. It's over. I wish I could say it's also over in my heart but sadly my feelings for him are still there. And I want them dead.

I wish God or whoever made me this way would give me a light or a guidance right now... I'm back to square one.

Love sucks. Transitioning sucks. Days like this I wish it was all over. I wish I had the strength to end it but I can't do that to my mom.

Anyways that's all. End of this story.

I'm in tears for you right now Dani.  I know how much you wanted this to work out.
Your not back to square one, you took a step back to try something.
Please don't despair, love is out there..and you are strong enough!

Hugs, Jess

I wish that I wasn't so tired tonight or I would pester you till you felt better, or give you a shoulder to cry on if that would be better.  :icon_hug: Big hug for you.

It's just a story babes. One of many that will make up your life. It's always so hard to see that when we are in the middle of the storm. The stories can change rapidly though so who knows what tomorrow will bring. This story is not your life. Your life is a vast, huge, ponderous thing and you will go over your stories in your mind many, many times before it's done. My guess is that 30 years from now it will be one of the smallest in your book. The stories seem like your whole life when you are in them, but become far less important when you are in the next one.

There WILL be a next one you know. Life just works that way. It doesn't stay in that moment, it moves on no matter how you feel about it. The sun will come up tomorrow and that day, or the next, or the one after that will be the happiest of your life. It will happen, life drags us along whether we feel happy or sad or whatever, life drags us along to the next story. It's kind of insensitive that way.

I wish I could be more help.
Hugs

I'm so sorry Charlie Nicki, I wish I knew what to say and even if I did, it wouldn't change the way you're feeling right now.  I understand the pain you are going through, I and many others have gone through it too.  The journey to transitioning is painful and sometimes, we just need someone to talk to or cry to.  Do you have anyone to talk to? If you want, you can always message me if you want to chat.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 25, 2018, 10:27:28 PM
Well I told you I would update you on the situation so here it is: He just told me he doesn't want to do this. He wants a man. Period.

I cried my eyes out. It's over. I wish I could say it's also over in my heart but sadly my feelings for him are still there. And I want them dead.

I wish God or whoever made me this way would give me a light or a guidance right now... I'm back to square one.

Love sucks. Transitioning sucks. Days like this I wish it was all over. I wish I had the strength to end it but I can't do that to my mom.

Anyways that's all. End of this story.

Awe sweetie, my heart aches so bad for you. Don't give up. I know it's hurting you deeply. There is someone out there waiting for you to come along so that they can fall in love with YOU. If you need to talk PM me. I'm here for you.

Skylar

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 25, 2018, 10:27:28 PM
Well I told you I would update you on the situation so here it is: He just told me he doesn't want to do this. He wants a man. Period.

I cried my eyes out. It's over. I wish I could say it's also over in my heart but sadly my feelings for him are still there. And I want them dead.

I wish God or whoever made me this way would give me a light or a guidance right now... I'm back to square one.

Love sucks. Transitioning sucks. Days like this I wish it was all over. I wish I had the strength to end it but I can't do that to my mom.

Anyways that's all. End of this story.

Charlie, I'm so sorry for your pain and I can say I can relate.

TL:DR; I don't love my presentation and yet seemingly because I'm finally in tune with my body, I've attracted more lovers and potentials and connected better than I did before. I was also surprised to find that in finally having the correct bits, I'm happier with my body than before and suddenly far more attracted to women with different body types (I used to only go for skinny, preferably small busted women)

I'm glad if you won't end it. I get that but you're right to remember how that would affect people who care for you.

So again, from my situation, my partner of nearly 20 years isn't working out sexually and sadly I can't say it's a huge surprise. After a year post op, 3 weeks ago she finally gave me head ... sort of ... and this last weekend she sort of did again and even said she was getting into it and yet she also made it clear she doesn't want it to be a regular thing. The thing is it's not a huge change, she's always been a somewhat squeamish lover.

So if she's *finally* gotten a little better about gendering me male in her actions in bed; I think it's going to be too little too late for our physical relationship. I'm still going to work on that because you don't stop trying but I also don't care to find myself crying after sex again.

So you're right, transition and love both suck, however I think they also beat the alternatives.

Here's my bright side (in about 8 hours I'll be exactly a year post-op):

First since HRT my emotional side is in such better balance. I'm amazingly better at connecting with women both as friends and now as lovers. My art work has grown in both depth and execution and I'm 100% happy about all of that. Even though my presentation is far from what I'd like, queer women respond to me well and also far better than they did when I was pre-op.

I'm sure I could have made it work without surgery and yet if I had tried that route ... well tried it for longer, rle for me was all about seeing if I'd be ok on just hrt ... I'm pretty sure my GF would still be interested in my <shenis> and I'd still be really unhappy with that.

Here's what I think for you. Honestly men just come equipped from the factory with less emotional depth. And honestly I feel pretty sad for most of the men I know, sure there are the very few who seem to be well adjusted humans (and I'm not saying  that well adjusted women are the norm, we have our problems also). Then there are the men I've had to deal with who actually consider themselves to have emotional depth and yet as soon as you scratch that frail masculine ego they switch to either angry / vindictive or simply shutoff communication.

Ob clarification: this isn't an attack on men as a group, rather this has been my experience with men over a lifetime.

I think hetero women and gay men have to accept this (or even be attracted to the relative simplicity of being with males in relationship). Same probably goes for friendships, men and women do relate differently.

For me that simplicity is only skin deep and my difficulties with men came up quickly whenever I scratched past that surface, whether I was relating with them before I realized I was transfeminine. By comparison (and as ever ymmv), I've always found with women getting past the surface needs a bit more work, however once that hurdle has been surmounted, the deeper relationship is far simpler.

So here's where my relationship sits .. well my veiw: My GF and I have been in a socially lesbian relationship for two decades. She's valued having a partner with more emotional depth (and to that point she and I absolutely agree) .. who could still play the role of being heterosexual in a physical relationship. Once that wore too thin I've transitioned and I'm not looking back.

I hope any of that is helpful and again, I'm sad for what you're going through. Hell, I'm sad for what I'm going through, there are still more hard than easy days, I have a huge crush on a woman who seems a stretch to make a lover, a long distance relationship that's filled with missing her presence and my partner where I feel we're understanding each other better with a likely parting coming, probably not soon, and as I said I continue to work on it.

Hugs, S

I am deeply sorry to hear this news, Charlie Nicki.

I know it hurts and I mean physically aswell as emotionally. I feel for you in your plight.

As you say, pray to God for guidance and I shall pray also.

Hugs

Pamela

Everyone, thanks for the kind words.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 26, 2018, 08:42:06 AM
Everyone, thanks for the kind words.

I hope you are feeling better.  Maybe it's time you posted that really cute pic of yourself.

I think you may have triggered your dysphoria when you compromised with your ex.  Which of course sent you off the cliff of despair when things didn't work out.  Stay focused on your needs.  Adapting to other people's version of us is what gets us into these messes we struggle with.

Your dear friend, Jess

I know it's painful, but please know that everything gets better in the end, I had something similar happen to me, but the problems from breaking up were massive, yet... please don't lose hope, you'll find somebody special for sure

I'm sorry I know you mentioned to me what happened but hearing you talk about ending it breaks my heart... I had someone break up with me in the past and can only imagine the hurt of that on top of the stress of transitioning.. It's not easy
You gave it your all and I think as Michelle said you'll look back on this time differently. I also think you should feel proud for truly giving it your all in trying to make this relationship work

You're a year or more on hrt now right? You've come so far already there's only one path for you and that's forward to being your most authentic BEAUTIFUL self. I wish I could give you a big hug right now sis [emoji173]

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 25, 2018, 10:27:28 PM
Well I told you I would update you on the situation so here it is: He just told me he doesn't want to do this. He wants a man. Period.

I cried my eyes out. It's over. I wish I could say it's also over in my heart but sadly my feelings for him are still there. And I want them dead.

I wish God or whoever made me this way would give me a light or a guidance right now... I'm back to square one.

Love sucks. Transitioning sucks. Days like this I wish it was all over. I wish I had the strength to end it but I can't do that to my mom.

Anyways that's all. End of this story.

Yes, this story is over. I, and probably a huge number of us here, know the hurt, the pain, the despair of loss and it feels like hell. Big time. But this is only one story when you have a lifetime of stories ahead of you.

When I see your name and your avatar what do I find between them? Finally finding myself
So very, very true.
I agree that transitioning is no cakewalk but it is far, far better than living a lie. And you, IMHO, are much better off without a self-centered companion that wants you to conform to his view of an ideal person instead of supporting you as your true self emerges. In my mind, I see him as a petulant toddler; he wants only what he wants.

Your true love is out there. I promise. Now that you are freed from other's baggage, when you finally meet that special someone, you are also free to be true to yourself as you explore what real love truly means.

Susan

@Allison S @Susan Baum yeah there's nothing else to do but to move forward.

I guess technically I don't meet the criteria for this as I never felt I was a particularly attractive male (average at best) and I seriously doubt I'll look any better as female as Sod's law is a cruel one, but in your case you look amazing in the photo you have nothing to fear about your appearance, I'd kill to be even half as attractive as you XD