Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm almost 19, bio male, genderfluid, and I kinda feel stuck. I just recently started to go to therapy, I don't really fully know how I identify. I'm fairly certain that I would want to transition, but it feels almost pointless. My voice is really upsetting, and trying to change it is difficult and upsetting in and of itself. The worst part is that I already know I wouldn't have a 'successful' transition, I have some really masculine features. I don't know. I just feel like there's nothing I can do, and that I'll never be happy with myself.

I have some concerns as well about how my own transition will turn out, but I knew I'd be unhappy if I didn't at least try.  I will admit that as part of this process I've had to come to terms with the fact I may or may not pass and am willing to live with the outcome.  I wasn't willing to live with being male and doing nothing about it.

If you just started therapy, maybe you should give that a little more time so you can best figure out what you want to do/be?  Also, have you had a chance to discuss this with your therapist?  Finally, have you've had a chance to discuss these feelings at a support group?

And yes, I've been working on my voice for four months now.  While it's a very difficult and annoying process, it does get better, I promise.  In regards to your other masculine features mentioned, science can't fix everything, but it can improve a lot of things.

Quote from: SammyHatesGreenEggs on May 12, 2018, 08:44:21 PM
I have some concerns as well about how my own transition will turn out, but I knew I'd be unhappy if I didn't at least try.  I will admit that as part of this process I've had to come to terms with the fact I may or may not pass and am willing to live with the outcome.  I wasn't willing to live with being male and doing nothing about it.

If you just started therapy, maybe you should give that a little more time so you can best figure out what you want to do/be?  Also, have you had a chance to discuss this with your therapist?  Finally, have you've had a chance to discuss these feelings at a support group?

And yes, I've been working on my voice for four months now.  While it's a very difficult and annoying process, it does get better, I promise.  In regards to your other masculine features mentioned, science can't fix everything, but it can improve a lot of things.

I just don't know if I'd be okay with living as a trans girl who doesn't pass, either. I mean if I'd be unhappy either way, that's the part that feels pointless

I have just started therapy, but I've been dealing with these feelings for about 4 years now. I haven't really discussed this with my therapist, I've only seen her once but I go back Tuesday. Also, there aren't really any support groups where I live.

Can I ask what you do/use for voice training?

Maybe I've just been in the dumps today, I don't know. My Adams Apple and just facial features have been upsetting me lately. Thank you for sharing. :)

We all feel down in the dumps sometimes.  That doesn't make those feelings any less valid :)

You're doing much better than me.  I waited 17 years before going to see a therapist last year.  Sorry to hear about the support group situation.  At least you're here on Susans!

I see a voice coach every week - 2 weeks who gives me various exercises to do.  Others on here could probably provide do it yourself programs and advice.  My Adams Apple and some facial features are quite masculine (someday soon, I'll actually post a pic here with my face showing), so I have started looking into providers for facial feminization surgery, which can make some of that better.  I'll always be 6'2" though, which is my big hangup (but so are Maria Sharapova, Karlie Kloss, and Gwendoline Christie give or take an inch....).

My original thought on passing was that if I didn't, I would just deal with being male, as a big part of my dysphoria was knowing there was something I could at least try and do about it.  I would be disappointed about that, but I try not to let things I can't control bother me too much (easier written than done sometimes).  I'm at a point now where if I don't pass, I'll probably stay as I am, and would take comfort in knowing I did all I could.  While that isn't as nice as passing as a woman, it feels a lot better to me than living a lie as a man.  Part of why I waited so long to seriously consider transition is I found it very overwhelming when I first researched it (I was around your age then).  It can feel like a daunting process.

I guess where I'm trying to go with all of this is that we can't predict the future (in which we know we're unhappy) and the only way to get to a place where we might be happier is to go through this process.  Once you have the actual results of it, you can then figure out what to do.  And, you might be underestimating your odds of passing, as at your age you have a better shot of it than folks who are older!

rlacy,

Just take a look at the before/after thread to see what is possible with HRT and FFS. You will be amazed at the changes many of us experienced.

Transition is always a compromise. Permanent, irreversible  changes are not for someone who is still questioning their gender expression. Speaking for myself, I was compelled to transition after more than 50 years of denial. I gave up a few things from my past life and embraced new things to replace what I lost in transition. I had to accept the loses to live as my correct self.

The point for anyone who transitions is that the benefits of transition far outweigh the pain of what we lose.

You're all over the place, one minute you're genderfluid and the next you're a transgirl that needs to pass.  :)

Work out what you want, what you need, and what you're willing to lose. Then move forward with your plan.

Hugs, Devlyn

I'm early in my transition at 7 months hrt and I still question things and even have some doubts. If you're going from male to female it won't be easy without already having long hair at your starting point. I'm just being honest, though there are trans women who pull off short hair well and can pass. But those women are a few years on hrt.

Now if you were non binary, I think that's easier as amab starting off to achieve. But gender fluid is being both male and female I presume so my above response still stands.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Quote from: SammyHatesGreenEggs on May 12, 2018, 09:38:03 PM
We all feel down in the dumps sometimes.  That doesn't make those feelings any less valid :)

You're doing much better than me.  I waited 17 years before going to see a therapist last year.  Sorry to hear about the support group situation.  At least you're here on Susans!

I see a voice coach every week - 2 weeks who gives me various exercises to do.  Others on here could probably provide do it yourself programs and advice.  My Adams Apple and some facial features are quite masculine (someday soon, I'll actually post a pic here with my face showing), so I have started looking into providers for facial feminization surgery, which can make some of that better.  I'll always be 6'2" though, which is my big hangup (but so are Maria Sharapova, Karlie Kloss, and Gwendoline Christie give or take an inch....).

My original thought on passing was that if I didn't, I would just deal with being male, as a big part of my dysphoria was knowing there was something I could at least try and do about it.  I would be disappointed about that, but I try not to let things I can't control bother me too much (easier written than done sometimes).  I'm at a point now where if I don't pass, I'll probably stay as I am, and would take comfort in knowing I did all I could.  While that isn't as nice as passing as a woman, it feels a lot better to me than living a lie as a man.  Part of why I waited so long to seriously consider transition is I found it very overwhelming when I first researched it (I was around your age then).  It can feel like a daunting process.

I guess where I'm trying to go with all of this is that we can't predict the future (in which we know we're unhappy) and the only way to get to a place where we might be happier is to go through this process.  Once you have the actual results of it, you can then figure out what to do.  And, you might be underestimating your odds of passing, as at your age you have a better shot of it than folks who are older!

Thanks! I think I need to put in more effort with voice training and research. I'm glad I'm here on Susan's, too!

I definitely feel where you're coming from with all of that, I'm glad you decided to go for it and try your best to be yourself!

I think I just need to get my mental situation under control first, and know what I want before doing anything. Thanks again!

Quote from: Dani on May 13, 2018, 04:51:12 AM
rlacy,

Just take a look at the before/after thread to see what is possible with HRT and FFS. You will be amazed at the changes many of us experienced.

Transition is always a compromise. Permanent, irreversible  changes are not for someone who is still questioning their gender expression. Speaking for myself, I was compelled to transition after more than 50 years of denial. I gave up a few things from my past life and embraced new things to replace what I lost in transition. I had to accept the loses to live as my correct self.

The point for anyone who transitions is that the benefits of transition far outweigh the pain of what we lose.

Thanks, I definitely will! I think I need to evaluate who I am and what I want, and if I'm willing to lose what I'd lose.

Quote from: Devlyn on May 13, 2018, 06:26:02 AM
You're all over the place, one minute you're genderfluid and the next you're a transgirl that needs to pass.  :)

Work out what you want, what you need, and what you're willing to lose. Then move forward with your plan.

Hugs, Devlyn

Thanks! I think that's definitely what I need to do. I think I say those two things because I believe I'm genderfluid, but honestly I haven't been able to accept the possibility of living in between genders, I guess with society's opinions and what not.

Quote from: Allison S on May 13, 2018, 08:23:14 AM
I'm early in my transition at 7 months hrt and I still question things and even have some doubts. If you're going from male to female it won't be easy without already having long hair at your starting point. I'm just being honest, though there are trans women who pull off short hair well and can pass. But those women are a few years on hrt.

Now if you were non binary, I think that's easier as amab starting off to achieve. But gender fluid is being both male and female I presume so my above response still stands.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Honestly, I think I am genderfluid, because I go in between feeling feminine/masculine a lot. Mostly feminine, but sometimes I am masculine. I think I just denied that because I didn't want to live as someone who has their gender questioned in public every two seconds. I do have longer (than average) hair now, it's about down to my shoulders, so that helps me. I couldn't stand having short hair lol
But again, I don't fully know how I identify, so I might fully transition. And it's nice to see you again! :)

rlacy,
   You are 18 years old, correct? It is totally okay, normal, natural to take some time to figure it all out. Relax, go with a bit of experimentation to help you understand where you stand. Know that even when you figure it out somewhat we still are dynamic and can change, evolve. My point is, don't put to much pressure on yourself to have all the answers. The trick is to learn to accept what you find in your travels. Good luck!

Quote from: rlacy2018 on May 13, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
Thanks! I think that's definitely what I need to do. I think I say those two things because I believe I'm genderfluid, but honestly I haven't been able to accept the possibility of living in between genders, I guess with society's opinions and what not.

I'm genderfluid, and I've chosen a feminine presentation to go with my neither/both identity.

Hugs, Devlyn

In addition to what others have said, don't feel like it is all hopeless just because you are past puberty.  Many of us started long, long, LONG after puberty.  I started at 61, and I am by no means the oldest transitioner here.  While 100% passability was, realistically, never my goal, I have been amazed at what HRT has been able to do.  I am treated 100% as a woman wherever I go, even if they can guess my past, and I pass well enough not to attract unwanted attention.  There is plenty of time to map out what future you want.

Quote from: rlacy2018 on May 13, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
Honestly, I think I am genderfluid, because I go in between feeling feminine/masculine a lot. Mostly feminine, but sometimes I am masculine. I think I just denied that because I didn't want to live as someone who has their gender questioned in public every two seconds. I do have longer (than average) hair now, it's about down to my shoulders, so that helps me. I couldn't stand having short hair lol
But again, I don't fully know how I identify, so I might fully transition. And it's nice to see you again! :)

I also identify as gender fluid, much in the way you do.  I feel comfortable as both, but present androgynous when in  male mode and entirely female when I'm not.
Gender fluid, I feel, has all the gender personalities possible and you are able to be where you are on it, moving when you will.

Quote from: HappyMoni on May 13, 2018, 10:20:46 AM
rlacy,
   You are 18 years old, correct? It is totally okay, normal, natural to take some time to figure it all out. Relax, go with a bit of experimentation to help you understand where you stand. Know that even when you figure it out somewhat we still are dynamic and can change, evolve. My point is, don't put to much pressure on yourself to have all the answers. The trick is to learn to accept what you find in your travels. Good luck!

Yes I am. Thank you. :) Honestly I think I just overreacted with this post last night. I mean, I know what I love (makeup, long hair, haven't done my nails yet but would love to, shaving, etc) all of which are feminine things, but I don't want to use that as a basis for my transitioning. The thing is though, it's frustrating when I can't fully express myself as a girl, and I think that's what tells me that transitioning is right for me. I don't really think there's a way to know (for me, at least) if transitioning is right without just doing it, but at the same time, I don't want to rush into anything. On the other hand, I don't think there's really anything to 'rush into', any permanent changes are 6+ months HRT, right?

Quote from: Devlyn on May 13, 2018, 10:23:28 AM
I'm genderfluid, and I've chosen a feminine presentation to go with my neither/both identity.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yeah, I think that I've been assuming gender expression and identity have to correlate, which they don't..

Quote from: KathyLauren on May 13, 2018, 10:27:09 AM
In addition to what others have said, don't feel like it is all hopeless just because you are past puberty.  Many of us started long, long, LONG after puberty.  I started at 61, and I am by no means the oldest transitioner here.  While 100% passability was, realistically, never my goal, I have been amazed at what HRT has been able to do.  I am treated 100% as a woman wherever I go, even if they can guess my past, and I pass well enough not to attract unwanted attention.  There is plenty of time to map out what future you want.

Thanks for taking the time. :) Honestly, from your picture you 100% pass.

Quote from: Jessica on May 13, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
I also identify as gender fluid, much in the way you do.  I feel comfortable as both, but present androgynous when in  male mode and entirely female when I'm not.
Gender fluid, I feel, has all the gender personalities possible and you are able to be where you are on it, moving when you will.

Thanks. :) I think that that's what I would do, too.

Quote from: rlacy2018 on May 13, 2018, 11:28:11 AM
Yes I am. Thank you. :) Honestly I think I just overreacted with this post last night. I mean, I know what I love (makeup, long hair, haven't done my nails yet but would love to, shaving, etc) all of which are feminine things, but I don't want to use that as a basis for my transitioning. The thing is though, it's frustrating when I can't fully express myself as a girl, and I think that's what tells me that transitioning is right for me. I don't really think there's a way to know (for me, at least) if transitioning is right without just doing it, but at the same time, I don't want to rush into anything. On the other hand, I don't think there's really anything to 'rush into', any permanent changes are 6+ months HRT, right?

I transitioned at around 58. I was not convinced early on that a male side would not come raging back and tell me I was making a mistake. That period of time of first going out was really hard. I am definitely binary and not passing that great was difficult. The thing is I learned so much about my true path by watching my emotions when I was perceived by others as 'X' or 'Y.' I thought I would be embarrassed to be out in public. In reality, I was thrilled when I was perceived as female. I hadn't changed anything permanently at this point. If I watch my emotions now, I am embarrassed to have a male aspect perceived by others. For you, experimentation is probably wise. Watch your emotions and see what they tell you. Lying to yourself or running from your true self are easy things to do, but don't work out well in the happiness department. If you figure out what you want, you can work on the specifics of what you must change to get what you want.
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on May 13, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
I transitioned at around 58. I was not convinced early on that a male side would not come raging back and tell me I was making a mistake. That period of time of first going out was really hard. I am definitely binary and not passing that great was difficult. The thing is I learned so much about my true path by watching my emotions when I was perceived by others as 'X' or 'Y.' I thought I would be embarrassed to be out in public. In reality, I was thrilled when I was perceived as female. I hadn't changed anything permanently at this point. If I watch my emotions now, I am embarrassed to have a male aspect perceived by others. For you, experimentation is probably wise. Watch your emotions and see what they tell you. Lying to yourself or running from your true self are easy things to do, but don't work out well in the happiness department. If you figure out what you want, you can work on the specifics of what you must change to get what you want.
Moni

Thanks! :) Honestly I do think I just need to figure out what I want, like you said. It's interesting that you mention that perception by others, because recently I was working at Kroger, and a young kid told their parent that I was a girl. Of course, it was a child so it wasn't full perception, but it was interesting to me. And I can't stand being perceived as a male.

I'm glad you decided to be your true self, though! I hope that's going well for you.

Quote from: rlacy2018 on May 12, 2018, 07:49:35 PM
I'm almost 19, bio male, genderfluid, and I kinda feel stuck. I just recently started to go to therapy, I don't really fully know how I identify. I'm fairly certain that I would want to transition, but it feels almost pointless. My voice is really upsetting, and trying to change it is difficult and upsetting in and of itself. The worst part is that I already know I wouldn't have a 'successful' transition, I have some really masculine features. I don't know. I just feel like there's nothing I can do, and that I'll never be happy with myself.

First off hunny, if it feels pointless to transition, then maybe being gender fluid is a better match for you. In all honesty, the road from being a head banging linebacker biker, means I have lots of points to work towards being me and what I need to break habits of my forced indoctrination of being male. We live in a more accepting society than from the past decades, trust me, just make sure that this isn't just being rebellious as a teenager from the life you currently live. Lots of hugs and love, everything takes time. Yolo with certainties.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

The only difference between male and female, is how you identify. People are the ones with the problem trying to accept you as both, but are confused with the gender norms we have based as all have for many a mellinia. Focus on what you need to be happy, and not on what you want to be happy. Hugs and kisses

Quote from: rlacy2018 on May 13, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
Honestly, I think I am genderfluid, because I go in between feeling feminine/masculine a lot. Mostly feminine, but sometimes I am masculine. I think I just denied that because I didn't want to live as someone who has their gender questioned in public every two seconds. I do have longer (than average) hair now, it's about down to my shoulders, so that helps me. I couldn't stand having short hair lol
But again, I don't fully know how I identify, so I might fully transition. And it's nice to see you again! :)

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

This might just be me speaking from regret, but if you think at any point you'll decide to transition, you might want to consider trying HRT now while you're young. It'll be able to do things to your body that simply won't happen latter on. Mainly I'm think that you might be able to achieve some hip widening at your pelvis at your age. You might not decide to socially transition, but it'll help get your body aligned with a more female structure through your bones that in a few years you'll completely lose the opportunity to accomplish after the pelvic bones finish fusing in a few years. Even if after you decide to still be fluid or even stop transitioning you'll have accomplished something that can only be done at a young age.

Quote from: KittyKat on May 13, 2018, 04:27:35 PM
This might just be me speaking from regret, but if you think at any point you'll decide to transition, you might want to consider trying HRT now while you're young. It'll be able to do things to your body that simply won't happen latter on. Mainly I'm think that you might be able to achieve some hip widening at your pelvis at your age. You might not decide to socially transition, but it'll help get your body aligned with a more female structure through your bones that in a few years you'll completely lose the opportunity to accomplish after the pelvic bones finish fusing in a few years. Even if after you decide to still be fluid or even stop transitioning you'll have accomplished something that can only be done at a young age.

I'm sorry, can I just ask, regret?? You're gorgeous!! Anyways... I agree with you on that. While I don't want to rush into things, I don't think there's really much to rush into with HRT. I think breast development is around 6 months? I'm gonna go to therapy Tuesday and see how I feel. Thanks! You definitely have a great point there.

Don't look at time periods for HRT effects. Everyone is different and there is no way to tell how you may respond. Talk openly and honestly at therapy and when you desire to start you will be amazed at the change in how you feel. Body changes will come at their own pace. I added estrogen in January and have gone from a C  to DD in three months. In my case my body has really taken to the meds. Others will tell you it's been one or two years for breast growth so don't get discouraged.

Was mostly speaking of my hips, they're pretty narrow and my stomach is actually wider then my hips :x. Just wish I had talked to my parents as a teenager more about things and didn't wait till my late 20s.

Quote from: Donna on May 13, 2018, 05:50:59 PM
Don't look at time periods for HRT effects. Everyone is different and there is no way to tell how you may respond. Talk openly and honestly at therapy and when you desire to start you will be amazed at the change in how you feel. Body changes will come at their own pace. I added estrogen in January and have gone from a C  to DD in three months. In my case my body has really taken to the meds. Others will tell you it's been one or two years for breast growth so don't get discouraged.

Ohh okay, thanks! Yeah, I know everyone reacts differently, hopefully I'm one of the lucky ones lol. Congrats to you!

Quote from: KittyKat on May 13, 2018, 05:55:51 PM
Was mostly speaking of my hips, they're pretty narrow and my stomach is actually wider then my hips :x. Just wish I had talked to my parents as a teenager more about things and didn't wait till my late 20s.

Ohh okay haha, yeah I know what you mean though. Sadly I came out to my parents at 15/16, but they wouldn't let me start anything, and my mom (my dad's out of the picture, don't worry it's a good thing) still kinda doesn't want me to, mostly in case I regret transitioning.