Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, I have never been a fan of anime. When I was a little-little kid I liked Pokemon, but by age 10 I had grown out of it and was pretty unnerved by Japanese animation for some reason. I couldn't stand any cartoons that looked too realistic. Even American pseudo-anime felt wrong to me.

For me, personally, I always looked up to gender-bending musicians like Gerard Way, Otep, Joan Jett, Andy Biersack, Bill Kaulitz, Ronnie Radke etc. I was into emo and that was how I expressed femininity in high school: long flat-ironed/teased hair, bracelets/necklaces, girls' jeans/t-shirts, eyeliner/mascara.

But, as it turns out, many, MANY trans people I have known in real life and online were, at one point or another, fans of anime and/or cosplayers.

I can make all kinds of guesses as to what might draw trans people to these sorts of subcultures, but I'd like to hear it from y'all.

Enlighten me!

(And also, mind you, I have no knowledge about anything anime related so definitions of terms would be ever so helpful! A friend of mind mentioned "futanari" and I made the mistake of Googling it... I'd like to avoid uncomfortable situations like that...)

In a non-sexual way, I felt like certain styles of anime drawing were able to blend male and female attributes; partly because of the simplified strokes and images.

Also, things like cross-dressing and even just general homosexuality were much more accepted(from what I can tell) in Japan versus the US; despite them being a very demur people in general.  Many anime play out large fantasies born from the imaginations of the people, and I tend to go along with those fantasies.

Watching anime as a kid, you'd see certain characters(like Zoecite from Sailor Senshi) and they're considered male, but because of the way they act and look, the English dub made them female for US audiences. 

And Japan has a whole sub-culture(I think?) around bishonen or 'pretty boys' which are basically men, but are almost indistinguishable from women.  And crossdressing is a fun side-plot to many of my favorite anime or just anime episodes. 

But I haven't really seen much in the ways of real transgender inclusion in anime, mostly crossdressing- of which has become a growing trend that has gained massive momentum over the last decade or so, that now pretty much every 'harem' anime includes a boy amongst the girls, but acting as a girl.

Stepping aside from anime for a moment, I was a big fan of MCR- I never heard of the other names you mentioned, but I had no idea Gerard was anything but a goth-y man.

Quote from: nightingale95 on May 26, 2018, 08:28:41 PM
I can make all kinds of guesses as to what might draw trans people to these sorts of subcultures, but I'd like to hear it from y'all.

          NightingGale I see what you mean by "futanari", couldn't even get a definition without turning my "family filter" OFF! I've always liked Japanese anime but never actually researched it (until you brought it up?) Wiki says:

"Outside Japan, anime refers specifically to animation from Japan or as a Japanese-disseminated animation style often characterized by colorful graphics, vibrant characters and fantastical themes."

         Of course the different Genre defs are listed here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Genres). If had to pick a style personally like would probably say the playful "ecchi" with it's seductive but non-porn overtones - which tends to express & satisfy our classically American puritan attitude(s) of "do not touch eye-candy" - lol a somewhat unique Southern term?

There's a great thread over @ CDL one non-proxy example of which is:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi894.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac144%2Flostlink247365%2F12063644_10153613020079320_2548162662137573127_n_zpszwd3jkpp.png&hash=ace5db2287ec4b13618e5b1c7c3d2f725d074699)

Pretty tall & slender girl wearing loose, over-sized "guy stuff" pretty much sums me up! Also, something about the look behind what is almost invariably always very saddened, resigned eyes?

In your view, while on subject, could you explain / demonstrate how "emo" differs from "goth"?

My generation didn't have anime when I was growing up, so I don't quite get the appeal.

(Dang, now I really sound like an old biddy!)

Im a casual anime fan i only watch one or 2 once in a blue moon but i do get quite hooked, i am for example very obsessed with Naruto and My avatar is a representation of that obsession LOL

The first anime that good me hooked as an adult, was Ranma 1/2, with the hilarious premise of a martial artist cursed to turning into a woman whenever he gets splashed with cold water, also he splashes hot water on himself to change back (you can see how i became hooked on Anime after this LOL)

Splashed with Cold Water: he becomes Girl Ranma
Splashed with Warm Water: back to normal

LOL

Quote from: Kiera on May 27, 2018, 07:24:22 AM
          NightingGale I see what you mean by "futanari", couldn't even get a definition without turning my "family filter" OFF! I've always liked Japanese anime but never actually researched it (until you brought it up?) Wiki says:

"Outside Japan, anime refers specifically to animation from Japan or as a Japanese-disseminated animation style often characterized by colorful graphics, vibrant characters and fantastical themes."

         Of course the different Genre defs are listed here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#Genres). If had to pick a style personally like would probably say the playful "ecchi" with it's seductive but non-porn overtones - which tends to express & satisfy our classically American puritan attitude(s) of "do not touch eye-candy" - lol a somewhat unique Southern term?

There's a great thread over @ CDL one non-proxy example of which is:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi894.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac144%2Flostlink247365%2F12063644_10153613020079320_2548162662137573127_n_zpszwd3jkpp.png&hash=ace5db2287ec4b13618e5b1c7c3d2f725d074699)

Pretty tall & slender girl wearing loose, over-sized "guy stuff" pretty much sums me up! Also, something about the look behind what is almost invariably always very saddened, resigned eyes?

In your view, while on subject, could you explain / demonstrate how "emo" differs from "goth"?

Musically speaking, goth music tends to involve a lot of distorted guitars and synthesizers and droning/monotone vocals and focus on classically gothic/horror/romantic themes (things Poe, Blake and Rimbaud would write about).

Emo is more pop punk/punk rock with no synths. Vocals tend to be high and nasal-sounding and also involve some screaming. Themes usually revolve around love/heartbreak/sadness/angst (things a teenager would write about).

Example of emo music:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUO

Example of goth music:

As far as fashion goes, emo tends to be less dressy and involve less makeup (no stark white pallor or black lips). To those who weren't a part of either scene they may seem indistinguishable but there are some pretty key differences aesthetically (especially in the hair).

This is emo style (how I would dress):

http://izismile.com/2010/03/18/hot_emo_boys_17_pics.html

This is goth style:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/jemynikleigh/goth-men/

Though I liked both styles of music, I preferred emo fashion because it was more feminine to me than goth men's fashion. Nowadays I present a little more goth but that's because I lean towards goth women's fashion (duh).

Well, clearly I'm a fan of anime as my avatar may attest to. It's of Ruka from Steins;Gate, one of the few positively-portrayed trans characters I've seen on TV. My name here comes from her as well, being an anglicized version, as well as Lucca from Chrono Trigger.

I don't know if my interest in anime has anything to do with being trans, though... I can't really think of a link between the two things, other than that there are a lot of female characters in anime that I've always liked, and looking at female cosplayers and thinking "man, I wish I looked like them" has driven home my realization of being trans.

Quote from: Lucca on May 29, 2018, 10:45:31 PM
as well as Lucca from Chrono Trigger.

Your now my favorite person on this whole board ^^

But back to the question at hand, I can say without a doubt where I like what if stories (I also like romance stories as long as there is some action and fight in between) but ultimately and this has always been true for me I love the smart chicks from Bulma

(https://am21.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2017/11/713a433cef988fd9cf57d80362aced720c1d75d8_hq.jpg)

to Amy/Ami from Sailor moon

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sailormoon/images/6/60/Sailor_Mercury.png/revision/latest?cb=20171219192926&path-prefix=es)

There are a few exceptions, like I Jim Hawking over Gene or the girls but he's the brain of the group

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UYktGV9OsDA/hqdefault.jpg)

Other than that I enjoy most shows dealing with space, time travel, dimensional travel, and I enjoy a good Robin hood esc. story

My avatar falls under the Brainy chicks category also, She is Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV, the creator actually said she was suppose to be a boy but they made her a girl to keep the balance in the story. Kind of rings for some of us lol or she might be one of the first Traps* lol

*Actually used this word to get it out in the open, more or less they normally dress in drag not as a show but for everyday life so much so people think they are one gender when in fact they are the opposite.

I hope it doesn't seem weird and its not uncommon to not like Anime, I actually spent time in Japan (someday hope to go back too) and for better or worse just being there you'd find one or two you'd like too Im sure

Ih's an art form where the more different you are, the most likely to be special you are. You're not judged based on anything but what you are in most anime series, and they're fun.

I got introduced to anime via Ranma 1/2 too, while I was in the hospital (long story, another day) and it brought some significant sun to a very dark time for me.

Quote from: Amaki on May 29, 2018, 11:22:20 PM
Your now my favorite person on this whole board ^^

But back to the question at hand, I can say without a doubt where I like what if stories (I also like romance stories as long as there is some action and fight in between) but ultimately and this has always been true for me I love the smart chicks from Bulma

(https://am21.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2017/11/713a433cef988fd9cf57d80362aced720c1d75d8_hq.jpg)

to Amy/Ami from Sailor moon

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sailormoon/images/6/60/Sailor_Mercury.png/revision/latest?cb=20171219192926&path-prefix=es)

There are a few exceptions, like I Jim Hawking over Gene or the girls but he's the brain of the group

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UYktGV9OsDA/hqdefault.jpg)

Other than that I enjoy most shows dealing with space, time travel, dimensional travel, and I enjoy a good Robin hood esc. story

My avatar falls under the Brainy chicks category also, She is Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV, the creator actually said she was suppose to be a boy but they made her a girl to keep the balance in the story. Kind of rings for some of us lol or she might be one of the first Traps* lol

*Actually used this word to get it out in the open, more or less they normally dress in drag not as a show but for everyday life so much so people think they are one gender when in fact they are the opposite.

I hope it doesn't seem weird and its not uncommon to not like Anime, I actually spent time in Japan (someday hope to go back too) and for better or worse just being there you'd find one or two you'd like too Im sure

Oh no! It's not weird at all! If anything, I feel like the weirdo! Most of the folks in my friend-group are into it, making me the outsider. I love animation, but anime is one I have not had much of a draw towards (except Hayao Miyazaki films lol but those are so mainstream it shouldn't come as any surprise). Perhaps if I had more of an understanding of its history, etc.?

The correlation between trans folks and anime fandoms though seems so great from my experience, I've become curious as to whether or not a relationship exists between the two. Not in the sense that one causes the other, but rather gender dysphoria may make someone more likely to take an interest in anime, or an interest in anime may make one more aware of gender dysphoria (neither of which would surprise me given how loose some series tend to be in regards to the gender roles/expressions of their characters).

Are there any series you would recommend for a novice? Or even any with trans-related themes I may have some interest in, given my own background? It's no doubt an art form that I would love to learn how to appreciate, not even as an anime fan, but just as a lover of art.

Quote from: nightingale95 on May 30, 2018, 11:54:14 AM
Are there any series you would recommend for a novice? Or even any with trans-related themes I may have some interest in, given my own background? It's no doubt an art form that I would love to learn how to appreciate, not even as an anime fan, but just as a lover of art.

The aforementioned Steins;Gate is my go-to recommendation for anime newbies. It's fairly "normal" without a lot of Japanese quirkiness that can be off-putting, and it has a really great story and characters with lots of witty dialogue. It has trans themes as well, in addition to a pretty diverse majority-female cast, though the lead character is a man.

I'll admit that the show's treatment of the trans/gender-nonconforming character is a bit... er, mixed, at least in one particular scene that I've always hated. Overall, though, it has a very positive message in regards to living as your true self and accepting and celebrating the differences of others, both in a general sense and in a trans-specific sense.

It can be a bit hard to find since it isn't on most streaming services, but it's on Funimation.com and can be watched for free if you use their free trial. (I recommend watching the English dub as well, though many anime purists would disagree with me on that.)

Quote from: nightingale95 on May 30, 2018, 11:54:14 AM
Hayao Miyazaki films

Perhaps if I had more of an understanding of its history, etc.?

ah yes my all time favorite is Kiki's Delivery Service and Ponyo, and its not all that mainstream but it is pretty common for anime fans to know the name Hayao Miyazaki. Its a start... you asked about a history lesson also. Well what I learned while in japan was this... do you know the old artwork of the Japanese culture?

(https://lakeimagesweb.artic.edu/iiif/2/341fb208-abee-659c-378f-a97fc4505785/full/!800,800/0/default.jpg)

something like this, anyway after WWII part of the treaty was that japan could not train a active military, to help protect japan the US started to integrate, well one of the things we brought with us was ...

(https://www.moma.org/media/W1siZiIsIjczOTI4Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1yZXNpemUgMjAwMHgyMDAwXHUwMDNlIl1d.jpg?sha=ee24471728732583) 

the japanese where so interested in how he was drawn they started to draw their characters with what we refer to now as Anime eyes the bigger eyes, not all of them are huge but (and Im so sorry if this sounds at all racist thats the last thing I want) even though most japanese have narrow eyes their new drawing style didn't. more or less thats a brief history and probably more than you wanted but lol (I like to write and even more about subjects that interest me lol)

So you are asking about starter anime, starting the way I did might be too much (Dragon Ball Z and Monkey Magic (anime not live action)) so what genres are you most interested in for the trans specific anime's I'd have to do some research, if I have watched them I never really considered lol.

At sometime in the future I would recommend watching a classic called Akira directed by Katsuhiro Otomo, it is more or less the father anime for all modern anime and worth watching, but only after you are comfortable enough to watch it (its a anime movie and not a series)

I don't think there's really a direct connection. Sure, there's plenty of cross-dressing, bishounen, etc. but mostly I just love the art style, the humor, the action, and the more serious tone compared to American cartoons. Anime is viewed as a story-telling medium instead of a primarily humorous or child-like genre.

That said, it's possible some trans people may be naturally drawn towards "fringe" interests like anime, alternative culture, etc. since we're already living on the fringe of society. Having a specialized interest like anime, goth, or emo can provide a sense of belonging that we wouldn't normally get outside of our community.

I've loved anime for such a long time and when I watch an anime I like a strong bad ass chick in the captains chairs.
I get really into the shows and imagine myself as them and sort of inspired me along my transition as odd as it may sound.

Anja

Well Japanese anime borrows heavily from Japanese culture and mythology, which is very different. It's refreshing in that aspect, and anime is not just for kids (and then some). It often explores far more complex themes and intimate character dynamics than Western cartoons usually do, because we have this daft idea that a cartoon can only ever be for children, so naturally the themes tend to be very dumbed-down here. Not to say there isn't plenty of inane anime out there, but there is a very broad range. So say one is an "anime fan" doesn't mean a whole lot in light of that. I've been a fan of many manga and anime since I was a teenager, but if you say "anime fan" over here someone will probably think Naruto or Pokemon or something. I tend to go for the dark, dreary, and violent cyberpunk anime that is definitely not aimed at children. Or the ones in the more realistic style and genre.

People from all walks of life can be drawn into such a broad medium of expression as anime. I don't pay that much notice to any that are particularly trans-themed to be honest. (There are a few that definitely have that sort of vibe). But as others have said, there's plenty of gender fluidity to be found in anime characters - far more than you will ever find in the average Western cartoon - everything from futa to bishonen and women with male souls to cybernetic full body transplants, to cross dressing to literal gender-bend events. If I recall one of my first exposures to the idea of feminine men was from this medium, and studying Japanese culture, which then went on to make me more curious about exactly how a man could express himself while remaining, undoubtedly, a man. Because in my own culture, there was almost zilch mention of this anywhere beyond the notion of drag queens.