Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone its been a long time since I visited the forum and posts

anyway back to the topic I want to discuss

While I was buying women underwear online and ask to pay for them on my mom debit card ( I pay her back with cash I had) she gave her church views on what she thinks that I was doing.

She told me that there was a adam and eve not a adam and steve. Then she went on to tell me that people like me go to hell. Afterward, she told me that it was my decision on what I do with my life and how I live it.

I accept that she has her own view and I have my own view of what is acceptable behavior for a Christian. But it bothers me a lot to know what her views are about people being transsexual, gay, or anything different from the "normal heterosexual cisgender Christian."

Now for my beliefs on what is a Christian. I think there is nothing wrong with being anything different from a  "normal heterosexual cisgender Christian." If I ever die and go to heaven I would do anything in my power to convince God to make everyone including my mom live a second life and see how hard it is to be a transsexual. To go even further with the punishment and suffering I would ask god to make it so that everyone who is made a transsexual do not transition into their desire gender. Instead they stay the way there are like most older transsexual I know and die a very painful life full of dysphoria. I would also asks god to make it so that they do not commit suicide but instead live out the rest of their lives in the wrong body.

I have so much hate for cisgender people who do not like transsexual that I would ask god to never let them near my sight in heaven. I want nothing to do with people that hate or use to hate transsexual in the afterlife. Even if god change their mind about transsexual I want nothing to do with those scum of life. I would rather live in a heaven where a section is set for those who live as transsexual and live happy for the rest of my life.

For a long time (six months or more) I been going to the new church with my mom (I decided that I wanted to go with her). they all speak Spanish by the way am Puerto Rican. I wanted a relationship with god and not the people of the church. I have no desire to look or speak to any of them. My main purpose was to serve god and not them. I hate every one of those people. Most of them do not know the strong animosity, bitterness, and hatred that I have towards them. Especially the little girls and women that goes to the church. I don't even remember way I decided to go to that church in the first place.

It doesn't matter anymore now because as of today I am definitely never going back to that church ever again. After I die I want nothing to do with any of them including my family.

@hardlife 
Hello hardlife,
It is great to see that you took the step to become a member of Susan's Place about 4 years ago and that you have shared your postings with us quite a while ago...  so it is nice to see your recent post and perhaps your continued involvement in the Susans Place Forums.

***IMPORTANT NOTE FROM ME:  I noticed in your posting today that you expressed somewhat angry feelings about other people's views regarding the transgender community at large.  Please allow me some time to digest what you stated in your post so that I can reply with a half-way intelligent posting.   
Until then, may I offer one thought that I have....   In my opinion it is best to not return anger with anger.  Conversations never go well that way and neither party will be convinced of anything being stated.  No matter how wrong we feel about other's views, it is their views and they don't have to be agreed with but they do need to be respected.  Cordial and respectful conversation is the key to getting along in this world.

***Enough of that for now... I will write more later.
   
You may have other questions and concerns, this is the right place for you to be to find out what others have done that may have been in your circumstances.
 
Be aware that there are lots of members here that can identify with what you may be going through.

Please allow me to officially WELCOME you to Susan's Place.  You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others  and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.
It is nice that you had signed up so you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other members.
When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....

***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here. 

Please come in and get involved at your own pace. 

Below, I posted Important LINKS that will tell you about Susan's Place.  Included there is information about the site that will help you navigate around and best utilize the features here.
Again, Welcome.
Danielle

Here are some links to the site rules and stuff that all new members should be familiar with:

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@hardlife
Oh, by the way Hardlife.. so that the other members here on the Forums will know that you have become a member of Susan's Place please go to the Introductions Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) to introduce yourself and to briefly tell the other members about yourself!   You will then have a better chance of getting the answers that you are looking for regarding your specific interests and you will be able to share with others as they share their experiences with you once they know that you have arrived even though you became a member 4 years ago!!!

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place,
Danielle

Thank you for the welcome Alaskan Danielle.

I guess the anger comes from me just having a bad day with living with cisgender people all my life.

I'm not angry with Christians anymore.  I just think the whole thing is ridiculous.   It took quite a while to get over the anger though.   It's the same process as the five stages of grief. 

The anger is intense now but it will pass.


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Welcome back hardlife
First off I'd like to say that your mother's views in her eyes are perfectly valid Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation and I'm very sorry  you both can't find middle ground. But from all the passion that's coming out of you right now and her I don't think it's possible now but hope always exist for the future

I went to a Catholic school for 12 years and had a strict Catholic upbringing and I was taught that Christianity ment christ-like.
And from everything I got taught in every Mass I attended I learned that Jesus would accept everyone unconditionally.
With all the feelings you explained I can understand why you never want to go to that church again but churches generally contain much more love then hate.
But I really do understand where you're coming from there is proven science that can explain all of us but unfortunately that day is not today.
History is full of many things that were not understood then and discriminated against such as leprosy for instance it's not a curse from God it's merely a disease kind of like we have.

I hope in the future you can lose some of that hate because
it's really a bad thing to carry around and very unhealthy but saying that I really do not judge your actions whatsoever if you want to do them you're perfectly free to.

All the best to your future take care Tatiana

The Christian church has not been very welcoming to transgendered people.  Some of that is changing, and it is possible to find supportive churches.  But some churches will never change.  The church on earth is human, and given to error and sin. 

But I hope you don't allow that to color your relationship with God and his love. Hate is a strong emotion.  It's not one Jesus showed even when he was persecuted. 

I once heard a pastor say anger or bitterness is like drinking poison yourself to hurt someone else.  It doesn't work, and only makes your life worse.    I hope you can eventually find some peace with your family and churchgoers for your own sake.   

Maybe reading and sharing in other's experiences on this site will help? 

I can accept my mom views on what she thinks about a transsexual, but my feelings for what I think about her views will never change. I will always be angry, even if one day she does change her mind.

I have plans of making a new family. A family that does not oppress transsexuals. I want to have a significant other that share the same views as I do. I want to have kids through surrogacy. I know surrogacy is expensive, but with my bachelors degree in the future I know I can make it happen. it is one of my dreams and goal in life.

If any of my old family (mom, brothers, sisters, cousins, anyone else) want to visit my new family they cannot express their church views on my new family. Else I will take action and they will never see their granddaughters, grandsons, nephews, nieces, or anyone in my new family.

The only time I feel angry is when she express her views to me. That is why I plan on moving out. Am 25 now which is good. plus I have a steady flow of income. I never argue with my mom or anyonw in church, I just feel intense anger. That is why I am never going back. and also why am looking for a apartment for myself.

The picture you guys are seeing for my avatar is how I look like now (when I use to be 19) I want to get hormone replacement therapy, facial femininzation surgery, facial hair removal, etcc...

If it was not for my mom or her views on what is a good Christian I probably would have not look as hideous as I am in my avatar picture. But I guess that's life.

I just have to keep working until I get the female picture of myself

Thanks for all of your replies. :)

Hey Hardlife I think your anger is very warranted with your fellow churchgoers and your mom
If everyone thinks you're such a bad sinner why don't they realize that church is a place you go for that.
I myself have never went to my church trans yet so I really don't have any experience and do admire your courage walking in to the wolves den as your hatred for them warrants. Society is very slow to change but someday we will be accepted.
  love Tatiana

I  rely on the words of the New Testament

There is hope: https://youtu.be/ugl5hDuaVwQ


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Quote from: hardlife on May 31, 2018, 02:43:20 PM
Hi everyone its been a long time since I visited the forum and posts

anyway back to the topic I want to discuss

While I was buying women underwear online and ask to pay for them on my mom debit card ( I pay her back with cash I had) she gave her church views on what she thinks that I was doing.

She told me that there was a adam and eve not a adam and steve. Then she went on to tell me that people like me go to hell. Afterward, she told me that it was my decision on what I do with my life and how I live it.

I accept that she has her own view and I have my own view of what is acceptable behavior for a Christian. But it bothers me a lot to know what her views are about people being transsexual, gay, or anything different from the "normal heterosexual cisgender Christian."

Now for my beliefs on what is a Christian. I think there is nothing wrong with being anything different from a  "normal heterosexual cisgender Christian." If I ever die and go to heaven I would do anything in my power to convince God to make everyone including my mom live a second life and see how hard it is to be a transsexual. To go even further with the punishment and suffering I would ask god to make it so that everyone who is made a transsexual do not transition into their desire gender. Instead they stay the way there are like most older transsexual I know and die a very painful life full of dysphoria. I would also asks god to make it so that they do not commit suicide but instead live out the rest of their lives in the wrong body.

I have so much hate for cisgender people who do not like transsexual that I would ask god to never let them near my sight in heaven. I want nothing to do with people that hate or use to hate transsexual in the afterlife. Even if god change their mind about transsexual I want nothing to do with those scum of life. I would rather live in a heaven where a section is set for those who live as transsexual and live happy for the rest of my life.

For a long time (six months or more) I been going to the new church with my mom (I decided that I wanted to go with her). they all speak Spanish by the way am Puerto Rican. I wanted a relationship with god and not the people of the church. I have no desire to look or speak to any of them. My main purpose was to serve god and not them. I hate every one of those people. Most of them do not know the strong animosity, bitterness, and hatred that I have towards them. Especially the little girls and women that goes to the church. I don't even remember way I decided to go to that church in the first place.

It doesn't matter anymore now because as of today I am definitely never going back to that church ever again. After I die I want nothing to do with any of them including my family.

You know my half brothers half bro gave me the same grief and I just told him simply 1 the bible says God loves all his children not just the straights 2 when I do die and I appear before whoever and they ask me about my life I will simply say "you know what after I came out as transgender and started to live MY LIFE I was truly happy."  I won't say you can't change someone's mind because you can but it takes the willingness of the person to be willing to understand and patience on your part to allow them time to as well.  But I agree if the church won't treat you right then they are not a good church to begin with because the bible also says not to judge.

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I have feelings of anger and resentment as well.  Early on in my transition they were very strong. Then one day I finally got it. Every second of holding on to all that anger and resentment was a second that my mind was diverted from the wonderful thing that is FINALLY happening to me. Living my life as a woman.  Bliss.

By concentrating on all the good things that transition brings to my life I am finally able to rid my soul of all those toxins.

Words well spoken Amen to that

Hello, Hardlfe. I understand the anger. It has to be primarily when the resentment towards you fails to settle down. 

There are some that I still harbor resentment towards due to words and or actions, even from before I started my transition. Religious views are often just an excuse people use when they choose ignorance. It is not the ONLY excuse people will use. It just seems to be a very pervasive excuse. Even when you get away from your family and start a new life, you will still find people with those views. How you handle them will either distinguish you, or tear you apart. Ignoring the topic can be a peaceful path. Confronting them, or allowing them to anger you is not going to help you any.

Hate will kill you from the inside. Walk away, but don't hate.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Deborah on May 31, 2018, 03:12:09 PM
I just think the whole thing is ridiculous.

+1

I think it's ironic that religions that preach love outpour so much hatred sometimes, that's why I have no time for any of them. I'd just let it wash over you.

If that means I won't make it to heaven then fine. None of my friends will be there anyway ;)

Hello Hardlife

I know how painful it is when on top of the other problems we have as a transgender person, that we receive disapproval and judgment from our mother and a sharp "anti" trans reaction from parishioners or priests at our church. Both are important to me.

Sadly my mum passed away in 2015 and she never accepted the way I am but I forgave her as she was born in the 1920s and simply didn't understand. We has a good relationship apart from that major difference. Things are gradually inproving in terms of parents' views but even now there is regularly a problem with a parent not understanding why their son (in their eyes) wishes to become their daughter and they see this as a loss to them. Sometimes parents change over time and sometime they cannot ever change.

I attend Mass at my local Church on a Sunday in male mode as I wish to see some HRT physical benefits before going public. Although the transgender subject is not often openly discussed, when it is there is definitely a dislike and disapproval and again an "anti" reaction from parishioners and the Church Hierarchy of the Catholic Church are certainly opposed to Transgender matters.

I hope your Mum comes round; my advice is just give her time.

As regards Church, clearly you wish to maintain your relationship with God in public if possible and I suggest you look round for a more trans-friendly church.

I wish you the best of luck for both.


Pamela

I woke up this morning still Disturbed with this topic. I'm sure about 99% of churches want nothing to do with us.
We really have strayed very far from the original teachings of Christ that would have accepted everyone unconditionally.  I wish Christ could tour these  churches and discuss their policy with the  minister, pastor or the leaders. I'm positive Christ would be horrified that most of his word and real meaning has been lost through the centuries.
Has not history proved to us that religion has always been used as a guis to promote War,invasion ,discrimination and profit. I would imagine the parishioners weren't very thrilled in those days either because how you know what to believe.
The church has mainly been run by men subject to the all there imperfections compounded overtime  resulting in the incorrect situation that we have now.
I don't see how any church could argue against us this totally contradicts the true meaning of Christ.

. I just try to keep focused on the big picture, and try to live true to what Christ taught us in the New Testament. I personally feel the Creator everyday being engulfed in nature makes it completely clear.

Quote from: Tatiana 79 on June 01, 2018, 06:05:12 AM
I woke up this morning still Disturbed with this topic. I'm sure about 99% of churches want nothing to do with us.
We really have strayed very far from the original teachings of Christ that would have accepted everyone unconditionally.  I wish Christ could tour these  churches and discuss their policy with the  minister, pastor or the leaders. I'm positive Christ would be horrified that most of his word and real meaning has been lost through the centuries.
Has not history proved to us that religion has always been used as a guis to promote War,invasion ,discrimination and profit. I would imagine the parishioners weren't very thrilled in those days either because how you know what to believe.
The church has mainly been run by men subject to the all there imperfections compounded overtime  resulting in the incorrect situation that we have now.
I don't see how any church could argue against us this totally contradicts the true meaning of Christ.

. I just try to keep focused on the big picture, and try to live true to what Christ taught us in the New Testament. I personally feel the Creator everyday being engulfed in nature makes it completely clear.

Actually the churches in my area so far mostly the Baptist ones don't seem to care that I am transgender I go in dresses or Capri pants I just try to look normal not trashy or anything and I think they really appreciate now of course I do get guys that will just stare at me so I just kinda smile and think to myself yup I look that damn good but then again I'm comfortable in any setting generally and don't really care what anyone thinks of me because if they don't like me then don't be around me

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Hello Arianna
I'm very glad for you being able to go to church as your true self and get acceptance and not discrimination.
I really do love your confidence and attitude with this.
This seems to be one of the brighter posts on this thread
And gives me hope for the future that this trend will continue.

All the best to you my friend love Tatiana

Quote from: stephaniec on May 31, 2018, 03:59:48 PM
I  rely on the words of the New Testament

I prefer the GNU Testament.   ;)

https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=547477 (https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=547477)

Hardlife, I was saddened when I read your posts - and by some of the replies, too.

While I am sure He would embrace you and me and those in this community, just what would Jesus say to those who twist His and God's words to spew hatred and their own agendas? What His response to the money changers? Tell me what the Roman church has done to embrace "Love thy neighbor?" I trust the Lord will deal with the heretics on their Judgment day.

I still attend the same Anglican/Episcopal church (think Roman Catholic without the Pope or hierarchy) I was baptized in and have attended all my life. I am not only welcomed in my church, I was encouraged by the clergy to do more, be more active in leadership roles and reach out to others within our spectrum. All I have ever received from the congregation is love and support and I want to pass the love around.

Take heart. God is Love and not all congregations or clergy spew hate; there are many that would welcome you with open arms.

Susan

I read this thread, and I cry.  So far I have NEVER set foot in my church as the real me.  I would receive at best a mixed greeting.  Some would be quiet and accepting.  A few would make an abominable scene.  Believe it or not, the one who made the strongest statement of how abominable that greeting would be is someone I have a social relationship with.  I have worked with her and the church leadership and we are able to go forward in a seemingly civil manner.  This hurts.  Trying to reach actual healing is a long path.  When the situation is as awful as Hardlife described healing is going to take even more time and effort.

The first step is to do as stated -- put some distance in the relationship and let things cool down.  That process is a two way street and one side is to work past the hate.  That may not heal the situation, but it will help to heal you.

There are even traditional Christians who care -- they are just utterly clueless about anything about Trans* people.  I am trying to figure out how to work my limited connections and bring some education.  What they really do not understand is that by rejecting us they are shooting everything they say they care about in the foot.  There are other churches that are already accepting and I suggest finding one.  Eventually I may have to that as well.  My pastor has actually said there are different churches for different people -- after he realized what he had said he tried to walk it back.  Umm, words are like bullets, once they have been shot they keep flying even if one sees the mistake...

Quote from: Tatiana 79 on June 01, 2018, 07:56:20 AM
Hello Arianna
I'm very glad for you being able to go to church as your true self and get acceptance and not discrimination.
I really do love your confidence and attitude with this.
This seems to be one of the brighter posts on this thread
And gives me hope for the future that this trend will continue.

All the best to you my friend love Tatiana

Thank you I am sure once you start to be happy you will be exactly them same just remember it's your life to live so live it how you want to and that applies to everyone as well.

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What counts is YOUR relationship with God. Your Mom's is for her to take care of.

There are really only two rules:

1. Love God
2. Love others.

Hello Susan and Arianna

I am glad and relieved to see you both get a good reception and no discrimination at your church. I am Catholic but have many acquaintances who attend other churches (mainly Anglican).

I live in hope that parishioners within my church (if not the Hierarchy) may gradually change their biased and unpleasant anti-trans views.

Hugs

Pamela

I remember Steve! Unfortunately, I haven't been through exactly the same thing as you. By the time I started coming out as bi/pan to people, I'd already left the church and my family, and I didn't come to terms with my trans-ness for a couple more years after that, so I've never had to deal with that sort of religious rejection myself.

I will say two things that might (maybe?) help: first, there are some churches out there that are accepting of transgender people. Certain demoninations are better about that than others, and there are also some liberal and LGBT churches around, even in really conservative areas (I know a trans guy that used to go to one in Alabama, so you can probably find those anywhere). If you want to stick with Christianity, there's still a place out there somehwere for you.

The other thing is just that it gets better. Lots of people end up feeling disillusioned with Christianity for all kinds of reasons, and the first couple of years are where you resent it the most. For a while, it may be hard to let go of that resentment, but after being out of it for a while, that anger does start to fade, and you stop caring so much anymore. It's a little like going through a rough breakup. You feel angry and betrayed, like this person you loved and trusted so much has suddenly turned on you and doesn't love you anymore, and that's hard to deal with, but over time that wound heals, and you can start to let go of the past.

Quote from: hardlife on May 31, 2018, 02:43:20 PM
I would rather live in a heaven where a section is set for those who live as transsexual and live happy for the rest of my life.

Isaiah 56:4-5

4For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

It's not Christianity that is the problem. It's the church that interprets it that is the problem.

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A quick note from my family Bible scholar - she has a degree in theology..

The Bible makes not 1 single statement for or against trans people, so therefore any church that discriminates against you is therefore "judging" you - something the Bible is quite clear on..

Quote from: DawnOday on October 11, 2018, 02:10:54 PM
It's not Christianity that is the problem. It's the church that interprets it that is the problem.

I got blasted out of the water for this perspective a few weeks ago:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240981.msg2176392.html

The problem as I see it is the "church" you speak of doesn't truly understand God's love for us. They believe it's their job to judge others and force what they believe to be God's will on others. Jesus never acted that way. He simply loved and accepted ALL who came to him. A lot of churches don't accept LBGT people or make them feel welcome. They don't realize that by judging others they are committing a sin.

Many will use the bible to justify their actions. They use these versus to say that the bible tells them to help those who stumble or to bring those who sin back into God's will.

I was raised in a Pentecostal church. I left when I was 20 and returned when I was 33. I served as a deacon and the pastor and I were like brothers. I'm not going to go into all the details, but I will say God used me for various things and I experienced and was witness to things that can only be explained as miraculous.

Throughout my life, starting when I was very young, I liked to wear women's clothing. I went through phases. I would dress for awhile then purge my pretty things. I struggled with feeling like i wanted to be a woman and what was taught in church. BUT God used me anyway. He knew my heart, he knew my mind, he knew my secrets, but he chose to use me to minister to people.

It has only been recently that I came to this realization. I struggled with being transgender AND being a Christian. I now believe that God loves and accepts me the way I am. In fact, I believe he created me this way. Why? I have no idea. Maybe it's so I can reach people like me who struggle with the way the church treats people. Maybe he made me this way because most cisgender people just don't understand our struggle. They generally don't accept that our issues are legitimate. All I know is that I can live this life secluded and afraid of I can come here and tell my story and try to help others who struggle with the pain and depression that many of us have dealt with all or most of our lives.

It all comes down this: You have to make a choice. You have to understand that other people can't determine what your relationship with God will be. You have to decide not to get angry at God because of the way other Christians have been taught. You just pray that God opens their eyes and hearts and gives them the ability to love others the way he loves us.

I know their others on this site that do not believe in God or any religion. I do not condemn you or judge you for your beliefs. I truly wish you all the best in life and hope your decisions bring joy and peace.

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