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I was just wondering when someone goes from being careful about money to being a cheapskate. My grandparents get totally annoying with their cheapness. I just want some opinions about what you all consider being a cheapskate or just being careful with money. First of all I know many older people are on a fixed income and they have to be careful with their money. Ok, that's not my grandparents. They have money. My grandpa did the early retirement thing and he gets a very good pension I guess you call it. Plus my grandpa inherited a lot of money from his parents. So they aren't poor or anything.

First of all almost everything they own is like really old. They actually still have stuff they got as wedding gifts like small kitchen appliances, their vacuum cleaner and hideous stuff for the kitchen like canisters and serving dishes. All their kitchen stuff is this ugly ass green color. When I suggest that it's time to replace that old ugly stuff with new things they always say the same thing. "Why replace something when it still works"? My grandpa also says they bought top of the line stuff specifically so it would last a long time. Ok yeah, but who cares if it still works? It's from the 70s!! My grandma has this old electric percolator she's had since the beginning of time. And even it has ugly green trim! So last year for Christmas I got them a keurig . They used it at first but then one day I noticed that old percolator was back out and the keurig was in a cabinet. My grandma said she liked the keurig but that the pods for it were outrageous and she wasn't paying that kind of money for coffee.

They do other weird stuff too. My grandma has a cabinet full of plastic containers. Containers from butter, cottage cheese, sour cream, etc. I asked her why she was saving those things and she said they were still good and she uses them for storing leftovers. Why?! There's tupperware or rubbermade storage sets you can buy. I mean who wants a bunch of old containers in the cabinet? And she keeps used aluminum foil and Ziploc bags. She actually washes them and reuses them! Ewww. She saves the big plastic coffee containers too.

Their house is never comfortable. In the summer the keep the A/C on 80 and in the winter they keep the heat on 68! There's never hot water at the faucet. They keep their water heater turned off all the time and if you want hot water you have to turn it on and wait. My grandma has a dishwasher but never ever uses it. When we have dinner over there I get a little annoyed having to help wash a pile of dishes when there's a perfectly good dishwasher like inches away. She says the dishwasher "wastes" electricity. She has a dryer but unless it's raining or snowing she never uses it. She actually has lines in her backyard that she hangs clothes on! That's so much extra work hanging all that stuff up. Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me. Again she says the dryer wastes electricity.

My grandpa is just as bad. His car is like 14 years old and I asked him why he didn't get rid of it and get a new one. He said because it still ran just fine and that he had taken care of it just so it would last a while. Ok, so it still works, who cares? It's old and outdated. My grandpa will also fix anything they have that breaks or try to have it fixed. Who cares if you can fix it, it's OLD throw it away and get a new one already! He won't replace something even if it would make something easier for himself. He had this electric lawn mower he had since the beginning of time. An electric lawn mower is weird in itself but the thing was Manuel, it didn't have the power drive that normal lawn mowers have. I mean he's an old guy out in the heat pushing a lawn mower. You might as well just  ask for a heart attack. Yet he kept that thing until it died and couldn't be fixed anymore. Only last year did he get a lawnmower with the power drive.

I know that for some people being cheap is like kind of an illness, like hording. I'm wondering if maybe that's what's going on with them. My grandparents aren't stingy at all. They give expensive gifts and don't have a problem giving someone money if they need it. It's just that they are cheap with themselves and their house. It just seems really sad that they are so cheap minded when they don't need to be. I know people who grew up like during WWII are cheap with money because they grew up without it but my grandparents were married in the 70s. There weren't financial hardships then or anything so I don't know where their being so cheap comes from. I gave up trying to get them not to be so cheap because every time I tried my grandpa would say I was a spoiled and sheltered child who knew nothing about the value of money. What's the point in having money if you never spend it?

On the flip side, where do you draw the line between fashionable and wasteful?

I have a new car that I use for work and a 17 year old truck with 250,000 miles on it.  I'm selling the new car and putting a fresh engine into the truck for when I go back to school next year.  There's something nice about having things that you own (making payments means the bank owns it) and being able to fix things. 

Maybe I'm just an old fart at heart, but the "just buy a new one!" attitude kind of irks me.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on August 15, 2018, 09:50:40 AM
On the flip side, where do you draw the line between fashionable and wasteful?

I have a new car that I use for work and a 17 year old truck with 250,000 miles on it.  I'm selling the new car and putting a fresh engine into the truck for when I go back to school next year.  There's something nice about having things that you own (making payments means the bank owns it) and being able to fix things. 

Maybe I'm just an old fart at heart, but the "just buy a new one!" attitude kind of irks me.

Yeah, my grandma gets annoyed with me for telling her to buy a new one. I was telling her to get a new vacuum. She has a Kirby they got when they first got married. It's really old. We have a Kirby as well but ours has the power drive so it's really easy to push. Her Kirby doesn't have that and it's very heavy to push. I told her to just get a new one with the power drive but she said she wouldn't get a new one because her old one still worked perfectly. This is what I mean about being cheap when something new would make things easier. I don't understand that. Those paddle things they used to beat rugs like 100 years ago probably last forever but who wants to take their rugs out and beat them instead of getting a vacuum just because the paddle still worked?

As long as they're not hurting themselves, they will continue with the same routine.

Just live your life and breath easy knowing someday, maybe, you can spend some of what they've saved.
I wish I was as lucky... Lol

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Julia,

The issue you are having is a natural one that comes with the age difference between you and your grandparents.  I am just a bit younger than they are and I have seen everything you speak of.  They are not strange; they have just seen a lot more life.  Being young you look at new things as good.  In three years you well may see the same thing you bought today as old and want to replace it.  An old fart like me looks at the other side -- that shiny new thing may only last three years and then HAVE to be replaced as nothing can be fixed any more.  Your grandparents have things that work and know if they buy a shiny new one it won't work long.  I got a toaster when I set up housekeeping long, long ago.  It blew up one morning (left pieces of heating element in the toast) several years ago.  My late wife had one she put up when we married, and that lasted a number of years longer; it outlasted her.  Then I had to go to the market and buy a "new" one.  It wouldn't do my toast the way I wanted, and fell apart.  I have had two others since -- and still have the last one as a I have given up on making toast.  My smart phone died in May and I had to get a new one.  I just got a text on my new one saying it is time to "Upgrade."  Grrr...

I can about guarantee your grandparents have seen the same until they are sick of it.  The signs of being "cheap" that you need to look out for is if they wear worn out clothes, they eat awful food because it costs less, or if they skip medications to save the price.  What you describe is rather typical.  My father was from a bit earlier age (he grew up during the depression) and he over reacted.  One time -- before he really got set in his ways -- he visited me.  I had cooked ahead so there was stuff to eat and we could visit without taking time to cook.  I cook good food.  He had gotten so tight that he didn't do good food anymore.  The stuff I had expected to last the weekend didn't make it past Friday night.  Then two-thirds of a 10 inch apple pie vaporized.  That is something to try to help them get past.  The green motif in their kitchen is not.  Of course this is from someone so OLD they actually like green.

Now I will scare you.  In forty years you will look at some new, shoddy, appliance and exclaim "They just don't make those like they used to."  This is a natural progression of life.


Erin

Honestly, I think that, as a culture, we're to quick to throw away perfectly useful items. We need to stop turning everything into trash. I'm as guilty as the next person, but I try to do better.

Quote from: Julia1996 on August 15, 2018, 09:42:14 AM
... Ok yeah, but who cares if it still works? It's from the 70s!! ...

:icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:  :icon_sadblinky:

Oh, I'm so old!  How did I get to be so so old?  I don't remember the day I stopped being young.  The 70s were like yesterday!

Julia, perhaps one day you will like things that remind you of the good old days.  Make sure you have dibs on your grandparents' good stuff.  Some of it may become valuable antiques one day.
 

The world has changed a lot, in terms of how things are used. A lot of tech nowadays has built in obsolescence. Meaning it has a lifespan and you kind of have to throw it away. In a world of yearly or bi-yearly updates to things like phones, or laptops... a great deal of things that use modern technology as we would think of it now... it's built to go wrong, to get you to get something new. And the speed at which things are advancing is faster now than it ever was. Something you bought three years ago will, in all likelihood be badly out of date if you compare it to what's around right now.

It's a sign of the times we live in. And people born in more recent times have grown up in that world. Because that's how it is. But that isn't how it always was. And I think your grandparents are basically a product of the times they lived in. Where manufacturers would pride themselves on something lasting twenty-five, or even fifty years. Where frugality was a buzzword and people were taught how to make the best of something, or make everyday objects into something else. I remember it as a kid in the 1980s, all the tips on how to turn washing up liquid bottles into pen holders, or make your own toys, and lord knows what else. The whole "make do and mend" mentality. It was big when I was a kid. And it's something that, as you point out, has been around since the end of WW2.

That isn't so much the case now. The world has changed. But people's attitudes can take an awful lot longer to change, if they ever do. More and more stuff is electronic based, rather than mechanical based. And with that comes a much faster rate of decay if you like. But it seems to me your grandparents still have that mindset. That's the world they grew up in, the world they were raised in.

The weird thing is, with many things there's a sort of grey area. It starts off new and desirable, then it goes into the "Omg why don't you dump that junk?" phase, and then a few years later it ascends into Antiquehood, where it suddenly becomes desirable again. Kitchen appliances from the 70s can be extremely expensive now, because they've crossed the threshold into Antiquehood. And are seen as the "in thing." At least in my corner of the world, lol.

Not using an electric dishwasher,  re-using stuff,  turning the heat down in winter below 68 (and completely off at night), turning the water heater off when it's not in use, et. al?

HOly Crow!  I thought you were describing a young millennial family. 
I find youngsters today are much more interested in doing something that they call "reducing one's carbon footprint."   From living in smaller houses, to driving less, to drying clothes outside of the dryer, to recycling.  And as an old fogie myself I'm all for it!

But you're right about the hideous kitchen cannisters. They got to go.

Quote from: Janes Groove on August 15, 2018, 03:48:57 PM
Not using an electric dishwasher,  re-using stuff,  turning the heat down in winter below 68 (and completely off at night), turning the water heater off when it's not in use, et. al?

HOly Crow!  I thought you were describing a young millennial family. 
I find youngsters today are much more interested in doing something that they call "reducing one's carbon footprint."   From living in smaller houses, to driving less, to drying clothes outside of the dryer, to recycling.  And as an old fogie myself I'm all for it!

But you're right about the hideous kitchen cannisters. They got to go.

Yes I know a lot of younger people are totally into the whole go green, carbon footprint stuff. I will no doubt have a few people with torches outside my house for saying this but I totally don't care about that stuff.  I do recycle but that's about it. When it comes to making my life easier or my personal comfort vs the carbon footprint thing the carbon footprint loses. I think those people who live in those "tiny houses" are nuts. Those things are no bigger than my bathroom! No thanks. Even crazier are the people who live off the grid and homestead. Tristan and my dad are fascinated with those homesteading shows and Alaska shows. Tristan even once said homesteading might be enjoyable. Yeah, ok. No electric, cable, wi fi or cell service. No running water or showers, using outside shacks to go to the bathroom and having to grow or worse yet kill everything you eat. Why not just go join the Amish? I told him to be sure to send me postcards when he goes off someplace to homestead. Oh wait, no mail service either. Yeah....NO THANK YOU!

If they experienced 'hard times' then their mindset may have changed regarding wastefulness.

"Where do you draw the line between conservative and just cheap?"

I don't. It's none of my business what someone else does with their money. And they have no say in what I do with mine.  :)

Now, when it comes to elderly people? They know there's a good chance they'll get million-dollar-sick at some point. Not preparing for that would be the height of irresponsibility.

I don't think you want to visit with me. Some of my dishes were purchased in 1976 as well as my cookware. My car is a 1996 mustang GT and my AC is set to 79 degrees in the summer which is quite comfortable here. If something is still usable, I see no point in replacing it. On the other hand, both my computers ran about $3000 a piece when I purchased them. Because they are top of the line, I don't expect they will need replacement until they are about 8 years old which puts them on par for a PC that needs replacement every two years.

The term is frugal where you spend your money wisely. You may pay more for something but you get value from it.

 My Mum is 93 she grew up on a farm in the South Dakota during the depression. She wore clothes made out of flour sacks, she used an outhouse until they got indoor plumbing in her teens, and remembers when they first got electricity when she was 12.  She was shaped by this environment and being frugal is one the results.

I myself prefer to hand wash the dishes in as hot of water as I can stand. For one or 2 people using a dish washer is not always practical as the dishes may sit in the dishwasher for a few days or more before you get a full load to run the dishwasher. One of the problems with using a dishwasher to wash your glasses is that over time they get etching from the dishwasher.  Over time they can cause the patterns on your plates to fade and tannin stains from coffee and tea don't come out in the dishwasher either.  (So if they aren't really clean to begin with what's the point of using a dishwasher?)

Saving and using coffee cans was fairly common even when I was younger and I still use them from time to time.

I can see the reason for not using a Kuerig myself as it can be fairly pricey if you drink a lot of coffee. (I drink a 12 cup pot of coffee every day unless I am under the weather) The K-cups run about 50 cents each for a single cup of coffee. That comes out to $6 a day or about $180 a month for me to make it that way for someone like me. For $30 a month I can get a brand of coffee that makes a single pot of flavored coffee for $1 a pot which is only $30 a month.
(And if I make plain coffee of course it much cheaper even using a premium brand of coffee at $6- $9 per 12 oz package. Which makes multiple pots of coffee)

As far as the car I have an 11 year old Subaru Outback with about 68,000 miles on it. They are built to go about 250,000 miles or more. Should I trade that car in JUST because it's 11 years old but still mechanically sound?

As far as some of the older appliances. Some of the older models work better then the new ones ever did.

None of those things would,because you either use them or do them would make one cheap so to speak.

From a health standpoint the used plastic bags and aluminum foil should be tossed.  That could be a mistake of trying to pinch too many pennies.

My best friend and I used to joke about things not being "broke enough" to fix or replace!  Sometimes its not about being easier to use or up to date.  Its about how the user interacts with the product. 

I reuse plastic containers but eventually recycle them when it's time.  Old appliances may work but not be efficient so I consider that when looking to upgrade or replace.  I try to be generous with my time and money but have been called stingy by friends and family when it comes to things for myself.  I'm a bit older than Julia's grandparents but I do enjoy nice things and will treat myself from time to time.  I do have a number of items that are 40 to 50 years old!  They work well and serve their purpose.  That said we are each individuals with our own free will to do as we please.   
Judi

Julia  think of it this way , they are saving for your inheritance  ;D

To be honest. A lot of the things that they have that are that old are likely before the age of planned obsolescence and the taboo on ease of repair.

I fully understand their if it ain't broke do replace it mentality. My kitchen center is from the 80's and works better than most modern ones and has more attachments. Oh and I got it used like 7 years ago and have never had an issue with it.

Also, a lot of things that were build that long ago are actually made from better parts that are easier to service. Planned obsolescence dictates that the manufacturer wants your stuff to break down because they want you to buy a new one.

The sad truth is that some of their appliances, while not as fancy or automated as modern ones, are very likely a much better quality with better durability.




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Quote from: Quinn on August 15, 2018, 08:59:10 PM
Julia  think of it this way , they are saving for your inheritance  ;D

That too. ;)


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Notice the first three letters. Con.

I am close to as thrifty as your grandparents are. We don't even have a dishwasher, and don't want one. If you have to wash the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher, you are wasting time and money. Besides, I can wash them alot faster than some machine can. I just don't shut off the water heater. Washing ziplock bags is safe, if you do it right away. Now, washing paper towels might not be a brilliant idea.
I once had a neighbor that would shut off the main breaker to their house when they went to work. Now, that's starting to get ridiculous. If your grandparents don't shut off the electricity to their house when they leave, they are OK.
There is nothing wrong with having old things, especially if they still work, or have value. One day, you may learn that. Stuff nowadays is cheaply made on assembly lines by robots. The best stuff is made by humans. I like things I don't have to replace at least once a year.

Quote from: gingerViktorKay on August 15, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
If they experienced 'hard times' then their mindset may have changed regarding wastefulness.

Being poor for a while really changed my perspective on that.

I like 60s and 70s style (except for the mostly crap music of the 70s) and I'm all in favour of using things until they break or until they are replaced with something obviously far superior.  I'm opposed to wastage, too.  I even agree that first world countries lead the world in wastage and trash.

I'm not yet convinced by activists blaming the first world for its carbon footprint, though, and I suspect that by reducing our carbon footprint we are breaking wind against a hurricane.  I can't see how third world countries burning or otherwise destroying their forests, often with total disregard for the fourth world nations that live in them, are not in the lead with regard to carbon footprints.  On the other hand, I see their point that they are only doing what first world countries did in the past.

I have some relatives who lived through WW2 and were used to conserving things, they had to experience rationing here in the UK etc so they tended to be pretty stingy. They also saved everything, glass jars, tins, and anything that could be used to store stuff in. If someone lived through a tough time I would expect them to be wired a certain way by it.

Some people are influenced by parents to be stingy. I know a few people who always "have money" but hate spending it, because their parent would always be reminding them never to waste money.

But it doesn't always work that way. I grew up broke and I like eating nice food, buying expensive clothes and having nice things. I hate buying cheap furniture because it always just breaks, and better quality clothes tend to last longer too. I'm generally called a snob for it. But what it really comes down to is a childhood of eating and wearing crap, and the wilderness years 20-30 weren't much better, that now I like to enjoy quality stuff if I can get it. I'm also a person who likes buying people stuff. I'm generous with my money even though I never really had it for most of my life. So I don't know how that works. I don't like waste though, there are certain things I learned as a kid that I still stick religiously too - stuff like not wasting food, not just throwing good functional stuff away, etc. Deliberate waste was the closest thing to sin in our house.

I guess someone becomes overly stingy when their conservation makes them look irrational or mean. Like they have serious OCD about it.