Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi there,

I'm still new to the community (my only other post had been in the introducions section) and to dealing with / recognizing my gender dysphoria.

I've only been trying to sort this out for a few months, after recognizing my feelings as gender dysphoria, and remain as confused as ever. A few weeks ago I felt very strongly female (I was assigned male at birth) and was feeling so sure that transition was something I wanted to work toward. Now, the dysphoric feelings don't seem nearly strong or consistent enough to warrant all of the trouble. It scares me how much these feelings can wax and wane. I worry about working toward transition, as if this is just some phase that will pass. I feel like a fraud sometimes, like maybe this isn't about who I "really am" and more about something I want or need to be.

Have any of you had waxing and waning dysphoria like this?

Have any of you decided to not transition because of it? How they deal with the dysphoric bouts when they resurface?

Maybe I'm just scared, and in doubt about my ability to transition.

Maybe my feelings are better described by "non-binary" than "trans"? For some reason trans feels more right to me. I kind of feel like I swing between no gender and female, rarely, if ever, feeling male.

I'm feeling rather scattered at the moment, and frustrated by all this confusion. I've been seeing a therapist, which has helped a lot but I think engaging with the community here might give me some more clarity. Would love to hear from any of you who have been through similar circumstances!

-Chloe

Hi Just Chloe,
Waxing and waning dysphoria really is a common phenomenon. It can be interesting to keep a journal and watch the regular cycle unfold. For me if my gender misalignment is not pushing and I feel just "normal" then I know another bout of gender angst is just about to begin.
Another ironic situation is starting HRT and finding the dysphoria vanish - then you stop HRT and find you are not cured and the dysphoria starts again.
You don't have to jump into transition boots and all - although you may want to in the end. It's possible to express your femininity in dress and behaviour & maybe HRT to let the pressure off as required. Having fun with your girl self offsets the issues.
I don't think the waxing and waning ever stops unless you complete a transition.
Interesting thread you started Chloe.
Kind regards, Kirsten.

P.S. I haven't completed a transition (yet).

@justChloe I'm in the same boat, born male and some weeks like this week I feel it really bad like things should have been different and it's all I can think about. Then other weeks (or months) I feel like there are just bigger fish to fry in life.

One thing I like to keep in mind is that life is more than being trans (or not trans), just as cis people don't go around thinking about their gender every day, neither do trans people really. There will always be days where work pressure, relationships, life  building, hobbies, etc will take precedence. And other days they wont. You don't think deeply about what career you're in every single day, it comes and goes, but you are never the less in that career (or insert other equivalent thing for yourself, you get the idea). This is partly because we humans have limited emotional energy, and a lot of things to spend that energy on in order to live our lives. Some people rotate things on a daily basis, some monthly, etc.

My point is, this is very very normal for almost anything that is important in your life, you won't think about it obsessively all of the time, duration and frequency may vary with different things and different people, but that thing is no less important for it, like wanting to own a house, or be in a band. Being trans / dysphoric is no different, it's still real even when you aren't feeling at this very moment.

Hope that helped!

Very normal I think that happens to everyone and it doesn't mean transitioning is wrong for you. You don't have to be 100% certain if becoming female makes you happy go for it. The nice part is you can start HRT and see if it helps your dysphoria and stop if it doesn't. The effects are mostly reversible for the first 0-3 months. My opinion is YOLO. I don't know anyone who goes into therapy with gender dysphoria and self identifies as trans like you are that ended up changing their mind and deciding they weren't actually transgender.


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It has always been that way with me.  I think of it like the tides.  Sometimes it's high tide.  Sometimes it's low tide. But for me, at age 65, I can pretty safely state it's never going away.  I don't know that that mandates transition.  You might be able to live in a non-binary way or something like that that falls short of transition.  But it's doubtful that you (or I) will ever be a standard-issue, conventional guy.

Welcome, Chloe.

I think just about everyone feels this. 

One of the sure-fire things that will make dysphoria wane for a while is doing something, anything, about it.  So even thinking, "What if I were to transition?" might be enough to make it go away for a while.  Or like Kirsten said above, people will start HRT, the dysphoria vanishes, then they stop and it comes back.

The thing about dysphoria is that it always comes back. Typically, it gets worse the longer you leave it.

Not everyone needs to transition.  Some people are able to manage their dysphoria without transitioning.

This is where talking to a gender therapist is helpful: it helps you to figure out what your own needs are.

So, so common Chloe. For me the dysphoria starts with nervous butterflies int he stomach, then grows and grows and I get this feeling like "I can't be in this body".

Sometimes I have to go into a toilet cubicle and collect myself.

Distractions help me cope. I'll think a lot about a task I have to do..or go down an internet rabbit hole researching a subject or story. Or I'll set myself a goal, like a savings task.

When it is bad, even looking at another woman is hard. Looking in a mirror is worse.

Then it can go again..and you doubt yourself

Hey. I have a lot of doubts. Sometimes I don't feel dysphoria at all, but usually it means my thoughts busy with something else. But when I feel doubts I remind myself about all of my life - though there wasn't much place for pondering on gender issues dysphoria always was there. Sometimes I can focus on something else, but when I can't it comes and embrace me like old friend. So I just stop and think - it is the problem and should be solved. I will never let my doubts to stop me now. Even though I don't match stereotypes I know who I am and sooner or later I will take what is mine or die trying.

But that's my own experience. It may not fit you. Only you can decide who you are. Do this and you'll be able to deal with your doubts and decide what you need

The inner dialogue can drive you mad. It makes you live in your head.
The angel and devil on each shoulder.
'You are a woman..'
'Your life will be ruined..'
Etc...

Hi Chloe, I could have written what you've written.

Every one of your thoughts has gone through my head. I constantly think what if, what if, what if? Are you an overthinker at all? I can relate to transgender thoughts. I am a male at birth, but I often wish I could have been born female. I wish I could transition with no issues. Then I think Im an idiot.

I too question whether this points to something else lacking in life. Perhaps I could still be a man, but express myself in less masculine clothing, embrace the inner femininity while embracing my body. It's all social at the end of the day.

Im not scared of being transgender, or of not being transgender. What I am scared about is that Im conditioning myself into accepting something that really isn't there. I have a need to be genuine. The times I've put on female clothing, feels great, but looks horrible, and I feel really self concious. Keep trying is the response, like learning an instrument. Am I not just conditioning myself by doing this? Am I forcing myself to accept being transgender?

I must admit, I don't have the answer to that one.

But in truth, you don't know what you'll like until you try.

Lucy

It waxes and wanes for me, too. It feels worrying, but seems to be pretty common.

I think it can wane after seriously considering transition for a long time, which can lead to deciding that it isn't necessary, which can in turn turn lead to it waxing after you've decided not to do it. It makes sense; taking steps to relieve dysphoria results in less dysphoria, which makes it seem like less of an issue, so then once you stop taking those steps more dysphoria comes back. My dysphoria was the worst when I had untreated anxiety and was convinced I couldn't transition, then it receded once I started taking anti-anxiety medication, then it came back moderately once I'd been in a mentally stable position for awhile, so I decided to transition. It hasn't been debilitatingly terrible since then, but it likely would be if I was dead-set on not transitioning like I was before.

I lived on that yo-yo for years and only recently started HRT confident that it was my best solution. I think it's almost like being an alcoholic in a way in that you actively have to say "No, not today." to those feelings on the regular. It's not a passive thing though certainly it's possible to get distracted but other things and obligations. For me the feelings never went away for long and only intensified the more I denied or ignored them. Dress up days, group meetings, little secret makeup applications helped me feel I was doing something about my emotions without a full transition commitment. You might try the same? I wouldn't rule out anything including non-binary until you've had time to fully explore your feelings with a group or ideally a licensed professional. 

Quote from: LucyEgo on August 22, 2018, 08:10:39 AM
Hi Chloe, I could have written what you've written.

Every one of your thoughts has gone through my head. I constantly think what if, what if, what if? Are you an overthinker at all? I can relate to transgender thoughts. I am a male at birth, but I often wish I could have been born female. I wish I could transition with no issues. Then I think Im an idiot.

I too question whether this points to something else lacking in life. Perhaps I could still be a man, but express myself in less masculine clothing, embrace the inner femininity while embracing my body. It's all social at the end of the day.

Im not scared of being transgender, or of not being transgender. What I am scared about is that Im conditioning myself into accepting something that really isn't there. I have a need to be genuine. The times I've put on female clothing, feels great, but looks horrible, and I feel really self conscious. Keep trying is the response, like learning an instrument. Am I not just conditioning myself by doing this? Am I forcing myself to accept being transgender?

I must admit, I don't have the answer to that one.

But in truth, you don't know what you'll like until you try.

Lucy

amen

I get the waxing and waning dysphoria too.  It's just so tricky to know for sure what the right thing to do is when sometimes I feel okay and don't even really think about it, then at other times it's really painful and disturbing and totally crushes my spirit.  I have similar doubts to @LucyEgo too, wanting to be genuine but not even sure myself what that means.  It's just such a personal thing too.  Something that worked well for one person may or may not be the right thing for someone else.

Quote from: Sarah77 on August 22, 2018, 09:44:30 AM
amen

Could you expand on that Sarah?

When I read back my message, it sounds quite negative.

I think I just wanted to get across that none of this shouldn't be forced. I don't think I should be coerced, cajoled, manipulated, guided into being transgender. I want to be transgender because I am. I am sure that this is something a lot of people struggle with and discerning fact from fiction or reality from fantasy.

Lucy

Quote from: LucyEgo on August 22, 2018, 10:33:07 AM
Could you expand on that Sarah?

When I read back my message, it sounds quite negative.

I think I just wanted to get across that none of this shouldn't be forced. I don't think I should be coerced, cajoled, manipulated, guided into being transgender. I want to be transgender because I am. I am sure that this is something a lot of people struggle with and discerning fact from fiction or reality from fantasy.

Lucy

merely agreeing that is the demons that speak inside my head..constant self doubt

You are not alone.    This waxing / waning, doubts, etc...is real.   For me it gets fuelled by time in my head, reading I do, women I see and relate to, family, etc..

All contribute to highs and lows, and wonder.    The think for me is, now matter how many little steps I take, or how good I feel in certain periods, the dysphoria and longing comes back.   As time goes on, I am better and understanding the triggers and patterns.   Today at lunch, there was another woman that caught my eye...not in an attraction way but in a longing to wish I could be like her...her hair, her nails, her laugh, and dress.  Boom the longing and dysphoria is back, but I now know what it is and I can better deal with it.

You are not a lone.

Karen

Quote from: Karen on August 22, 2018, 01:06:25 PM
You are not alone.    This waxing / waning, doubts, etc...is real.   For me it gets fuelled by time in my head, reading I do, women I see and relate to, family, etc..

All contribute to highs and lows, and wonder.    The think for me is, now matter how many little steps I take, or how good I feel in certain periods, the dysphoria and longing comes back.   As time goes on, I am better and understanding the triggers and patterns.   Today at lunch, there was another woman that caught my eye...not in an attraction way but in a longing to wish I could be like her...her hair, her nails, her laugh, and dress.  Boom the longing and dysphoria is back, but I now know what it is and I can better deal with it.

You are not a lone.

Karen

I feel the same as Karen above.
Sonja.

Wow, thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses, this has made me feel loads better, or at least like I'm not alone / going a tad insane :).

Oddly, I hadn't really consider that the small things I've been doing to alleviate dysphoria might explain some or much of the waning periods, and how environmental cues (longing to be that woman over there, etc) might be triggering the more intense dysphoric feelings.

@Kristeneklund7 and @Nikkimn, very good advice regarding HRT. I've been wondering if that's worth experimenting with over a short period to see if it helps. I had worried about the reversibility of the effects in the first month(s) as well, it's very helpful to know this might be an option.

@Sam1066 spot on! This is most certainly helpful, reframing dysphoria as simply one  (albeit a big one) of the many factors important to us and clamoring for our attention day-to-day makes good sense to me.

@LucyEgo Yep, I am very much the overthinking type! It helps to hear from someone having the same struggles / questions. I have the same problems around being genuine, and feeling self conscious presenting female. It's definitely a journey and I think you make a good point that the only way to know is by trying. I'm slowly learning to live with the fear and tension of it all.

I came here to find gain more clarity, and in the hope that I'd find shared experiences. It means a lot to me to hear your stories, so thank you for sharing!

Quote from: justChloe on August 22, 2018, 07:54:56 PM
Wow, thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses, this has made me feel loads better, or at least like I'm not alone / going a tad insane :).

Oddly, I hadn't really consider that the small things I've been doing to alleviate dysphoria might explain some or much of the waning periods, and how environmental cues (longing to be that woman over there, etc) might be triggering the more intense dysphoric feelings.

@Kristeneklund7 and @Nikkimn, very good advice regarding HRT. I've been wondering if that's worth experimenting with over a short period to see if it helps. I had worried about the reversibility of the effects in the first month(s) as well, it's very helpful to know this might be an option.

@Sam1066 spot on! This is most certainly helpful, reframing dysphoria as simply one  (albeit a big one) of the many factors important to us and clamoring for our attention day-to-day makes good sense to me.

@LucyEgo Yep, I am very much the overthinking type! It helps to hear from someone having the same struggles / questions. I have the same problems around being genuine, and feeling self conscious presenting female. It's definitely a journey and I think you make a good point that the only way to know is by trying. I'm slowly learning to live with the fear and tension of it all.

I came here to find gain more clarity, and in the hope that I'd find shared experiences. It means a lot to me to hear your stories, so thank you for sharing!

This is an awesome thread.   I hope we can keep sharing and keep it going.  This is great emotional support.   I too over analyze and think things, and then I worry that I am just creating the reality because you become what you think.     It is definitely a waxing and waning process, which really makes me doubt myself or think that I should be able to live with this.   

Had a really exciting and sad period yesterday within a very short period of time.  Got my blood tests and was told "my testosterone levels are in the female range at .7"...I felt so excited and validates.   Then my excitement shifted to tears...over the impact this has on my relationship with my amazing wife...why should she have to give up her husband...why should my kids have to go through this....a simple acknowledgement that if life was over now it would make things much easier.   How hard can it be to just be me...

So for me it waxes and wanes, and roles over the mountains of highs and lows.   It is so good to have others to relate to and to be on this journey with.   

Karen

All so true. I'm going to agree with Karen ^^^ especially the "how hard can it be to be me" bit, and for sure the fact that it is good to have others (us) to share and talk and relate the experiences and journey with. There are times where I am completely conflicted with my identity, and there are times where I am 100% (ok, 91.3%) sure that I've finally figured "something" out and am on a good path.

I've never questioned the female that is inside of me (or rather, the female that is me)....really it's more been a question of what do I do about it? How do I address it?

It is a struggle, for sure. Non-binary, trans, gender fluid, queer, questioning....so many labels, so little time  8) I'm certainly not trying to diminish anyone's journey, I just find that I get confused myself. Again, just when I think I've solved one side of the Rubiks Cube, I've gone and messed up the other.

I'm glad that this place exists, I'm glad for the interactions, and at the end of the day, I think I'm glad for the journey. No matter how hard or confusing it gets, it's an adventure.

@Karen I completely relate! I love those little moments of validation and how amazing and affirming they can feel, but oh how quickly they can be replaced by fear, guilt, and shame. Learning to live with that tension is something I'm working on, and it is quite a challenge.

@LucyEgo I meant to circle back around on what you said earlier. I'm also struggling to decide if this is really something that I want, regardless of what anyone else tells me, positive or negative. I don't know if I'm any closer to anything resembling an answer, but the journey has been illuminating. I also had very mixed feeling about the way I looked the first time(s) I dressed en femme. That, I have to say, has gotten better. There are still moments where I feel like I look ridiculous and wonder what the hell I'm doing, but there are also times when I truly like the way I look and even feel confident. I've not yet tested this out and about in the real world (aka, not my room), that's a next step I'm both excited and terrified to take.

One thing I've realized that has been very helpful is that I was judging myself based on images of other women, judging myself for not looking like them. Once I was able to start thinking about the unique kind of woman I would/could be, my appearance didn't seem quite so jarring. I'll never look like the women I wish I could be, but hell, plenty of cis women feel the same thing! I've also started noticing a lot more (assumed cis) women who don't fit the ideal feminine mold I was aspiring to. It's hard here, at the beginning, I don't have experience, my female presentation is not practiced or familiar. The only thing I have to compare it to is images of other women, and unfortunately that has often meant defaulting to mass media that is hardly representative of the average female body. Being more aware of the actual diversity of body shapes and sizes in people I see every day has helped me feel like maybe there's room for me in that mix as well.

Subtle feminizing cues also help, jewelry, nail polish, growing my hair out, wearing tighter jeans, making certain I'm very clean shaven (nothing like a bit of stubble to throw the whole thing off). I'm reminding myself that it is indeed a transition, and it will take time. I'm at the bottom of the learning curve and don't quite know what works best for my build and face, I haven't developed my sense of style yet. It's frustrating to say the least, but on good days, it can even be fun. I've had trouble with self acceptance my whole life. In looking for solutions, I never imagined I'd find them in a dress and makeup, but in the end if that's what I end up needing to be happy, I'm good with it. I've tried all manner of self help, so whatever actually works, works for me!

Hope that all made sense and helped some! :)

^^^ I have, and still do, judge myself on how I perceive I look compared to the "image" I have in my head. But you are correct in saying, once the "image" is seen from the perspective of I'm just being me, it gets a lot easier.

I'm in a very similar place....I've mixed in a lot of feminine things to better reflect how I feel. I've taken to wearing nail polish anytime I want (including work, which is a very masculine environment), and shopping for clothes in any part of the store I choose. I've got a collection of bags/purses that I've come to love having with me (who knew how practical they were too!).

You seem like you have a great outlook on things, and I'm certain that you'll find your style and what works for you!

Just though I'd add a +1 to what has been said before.  It's a HUGE learning curve and an especially difficult one if we are to de-program ourselves to get rid of 40+ years of male gender programming (thanks society!).

Over the last few years, I thought I had fibromyalgia as I had constant joint pain, severe depression, fatigue and memory loss so bad that it was affecting my work.  When I stalled my car and sat there for a few minutes not knowing how to drive, it scared me so I sought help through memory clinics who basically confirmed that I had a terrible memory.  In October I had a revelation while watching a music video that I felt like I was the female performer on the stage and it struck me that I didn't feel male at all inside, mostly female and sometimes neutral. Time went on and last December, my dysphoria went berserk as I was trying to cope with these feelings and I stopped eating, withdrew and the only solution I thought was suicide as I thought that I could not live the way I had been doing in a male role and being assumed to be a heterosexual cis-male and there is NO WAY I could ever transition.  Eventually a manager at work told me to go to my GP and get help as my depression was worsening and it was very noticeable.  I saw my GP and told her I didn't feel male at all and that I felt I was female inside.  After that, I told my manager and my mother what I had said and all were understanding and accepting.  I felt a HUGE relief and was happy for the first time in years.  Over the next few months, my supposed fibromyalgia symptoms cleared up.  I felt no joint pain or fatigue and my memory is returning to normal.  I saw another GP who refused my referral to a Gender Identity Clinic, but instead referred me to a psychiatrist.  The psychiatrist was brilliant and went through some very searching questions and told me that the physical symptoms I had been getting were due to the fact that I had severe depression and my body was starting to shut down.  He said it was quite common.  He gave me a diagnosis of having Gender Dysphoria and referred me straight away to a Gender Identity Clinic!  I was so happy to be happy if that makes sense?  Since then, I'm playing a waiting game as it's going to be at least another couple of years before I have my first appointment at the clinic, but in the mean time, I'm growing my hair out and having electrolysis to clear my facial hair.  Sounds great eh?  No.  Unfortunately, I do have waxing/waning moments.  I find if I have to perform in a male role for any length of time I get depressed and then I start to question the whole transition thing and it would be much easier and cheaper if I didn't transition then I think my life is pointless and worthless and suicidal thoughts are not far away.  If i'm allowed to be feminine I feel genuine happiness.  Sometimes I panic about the cost of electrolysis and if it's worth it, then I look in the mirror when I shave and god yes, it's worth it!

When I first started, I grew my fingernails and painted them with clear varnish and I thought that was great and it made my happy.  Then it became 'normal' and I thought perhaps I don't need them, so when my wife said she hated them and to cut them I tried...
I removed the varnish and cut them and I was in floods of tears.  I felt so miserable and unhappy and at that point I realised I can't go backwards.  They made such a difference to me feeling feminine, FAR more than I realised, so I grew them again.  Such a small thing but made a huge difference to my mental well-being.

I saw in a video once about questions to ask yourself and one was, if you were on a desert island and no-one could see you, would you want to transition and present as fully female or not.  This I answered yes, as all my doubts and anxieties about transition were not based on what I wanted for myself, but how others would react to me.  When I'm naked in the bathroom and looking at my body on my own it is then that I want to transition more than ever, not for anyone else, but for me, so I feel comfortable in my own skin.  I try to keep those thoughts whenever I have doubts but it's hard.  Especially when you are presenting male with awkward length hair, long nails and keep getting told that your face is a mess when it's swollen from electrolysis.  Then you have to do something very 'male' such as car repair and you are terrified of breaking a nail and you can't tell anyone.  Gaaaaaah!  Is it all worth it?

Yes it is.  ;D

I can totallly relate to the last few points. 

A face app helped me visualize the real me, and I really liked it.   

Hair removal, longer hair, nails, and weight loss have helped me look in the mirror enfemme.  No longer grossed out.  It still triggers some dysphoria given genitles and body shape I wish I had.

And I can completely relate to the desert island...just want to be me.

Hugs

Karen

This is such a brilliant thread.  All of the contributors were at the top of their game.  Chloe, thanks for sparking this enlightening conversation about a topic that bedevils me.  I look forward to reading more memorable postings. 

All the best,

Katy

Hi all..

If you are not familiar with Anne Vitale, you should go to her website.   I believe it is Annevitale.com.   She is trans and a PHD and gender therapist.  Over her 25 years of experience she has written several books.   She has also a series of research articles and notes she has written - testosterone impacts on MTF, how TG shows up at different life stages, how mid life TG plays out for different people - including essentially the waxing and waning effect.

She is the most balanced I have found for me.

Hugs

Karen

@VickyS Wow, thank you for sharing your story, there is so much I can relate to in there! The desert island question has cetainly been a clarifying one for me as well. It is azing how much the little things help, and how quickly they become normal, causing you to forget how mich they helped in the first place. It is a lot of work, but so far, yes, well worth it :).

@Karen, I hadn't heard of Anne Vitale's qoek yet, I'll be sure to check her out!

Loving reading all your thoughful controbutions and experiences on this topic. For something so complicated and individual, there are a quite surprising number of similarities in our experiences.

Hello Karen and others

I had the waxing and waning problem for over 50 years just like you Karen and as you know I was forced to take action last year aged 62 when the GD became so dominant and I sought therapy and then was put on HRT last February and I will be transitioning publicly in 2019.

So I have a couple of points to add if I may please:

1. I always knew I was a girl and told my grandmother aged 4 and always had the longing to be a girl and then a woman but I was able to "manage it" either by suppressing it or as I assumed by it going away of its own accord. However during 2016 the longing became so powerful and whereas I always knew female bodies were shaped differently, I had such an intense desire for the curves aswell as the breasts of course and as it was so intense and continuous, I could not suppress this time. Essentially it is all about how dominant the longing becomes.

2. I never married but I had family (mainly my mother) to consider and later to care for in old age and my career to think about. I took early retirement and one reason was to care for my mother and she died in 2015. I was bitterly disappointed at her death as I loved her even though she sadly never accepted my transgender status. However in retrospect, I can now see that the 2 obstacles preventing me from taking positive action (which is now leading to public transition) were removed by circumstances. Therefore the dam was burst as I had no reason why in my subconscious mind, I should have to try and try again to suppress - I was fatigued and disillusioned by the fight to suppress. I had lost the war. No more waxing and waning. 2017 was the time at last for positive action.

Needless to say, I am delighted I took that positive action.

Hugs to you all

Pamela

How is it going friends?

There's so many things it looks like a can relate to Chloe on. I don't however think our voices are unique. I think a lot of people have these waxing, waning, doubting episodes. We're trapped by our circumstances - external (work, relationships), internal (sense of self, shame, guilt).

I was able to dress up last week with a friend and we had a great time. We didn't do our makeup and hair, but it felt good. I don't know really what I felt from it. It didn't feel wrong. But it didn't really click. Maybe too much self monitoring. It did feel pleasing to wear my gaff and drive without any obstruction. Sorry if that's too much info.

There were times I looked in the mirror and had glimpses of the female within, but nothing when I stared directly.

I think I look silly as a woman. I have this notion of who I want to look like - so I created my avatar. But I think I need to be slimmer, and have breasts to be more feminine.

It is certainly a strange thought process, being comfortable seeing myself in the mirror as a man, and being uncomfortable seeing myself as a woman because it doesn't match the woman I think I should be.

I am scared Im making a huge mistake. I am scared that Im reading too much into it, that Im talking myself into it. Why can't I just accept that cards I've been dealt and be the "man" Im supposed to be. I've said elsewhere that I can be a feminine man, I could wear more flowing clothes and take better care of my appearance (metrosexual). Could I manage it like that? I hear that Gender is a social construct. But when you're a man and just want to be treated as one of the ladies and be let into that circle but there's a phallic barrier in the way. It's depressing.

There's relationships, family, my significant other, work. And what if I start down a path. How soon do I tell my partner? Do I risk losing her on a whim? But what if things progress significantly with her that Im then unable to explore myself? What if I start to transition but find out it's a mistake? How would I cope with telling the people around me - I made a mistake.

I know how I would respond if I knew someone who transitoned and detransitioned. I would accept them no matter what and support them through anything. I don't feel I have that kind of support network. And most people aren't like me.

I wish there was a magical button you could press to find out. If I had no partner and was living alone, I think I'd have probably done something about this a long time ago. I would have had no problem transitioning. The problem isn't how I feel about it. It's how I might affect other people for what might just be a whim.

It's not that I fear living a lone. I fear surviving in a world that revolves around money, being without food and shelter because I've got to pay some exorbitant rent, loads of bills, cell phone, phone, gas, electric, taxes, water, food, car costs etc.  :embarrassed:

So much of my standing still is probably nothing at all to do with gender. I probably don't care if I do get it wrong. I just fear losing everything.

Quote from: justChloe on August 21, 2018, 09:49:53 PM
Hi there,

I'm still new to the community (my only other post had been in the introducions section) and to dealing with / recognizing my gender dysphoria.

I've only been trying to sort this out for a few months, after recognizing my feelings as gender dysphoria, and remain as confused as ever. A few weeks ago I felt very strongly female (I was assigned male at birth) and was feeling so sure that transition was something I wanted to work toward. Now, the dysphoric feelings don't seem nearly strong or consistent enough to warrant all of the trouble. It scares me how much these feelings can wax and wane. I worry about working toward transition, as if this is just some phase that will pass. I feel like a fraud sometimes, like maybe this isn't about who I "really am" and more about something I want or need to be.

Have any of you had waxing and waning dysphoria like this?

Have any of you decided to not transition because of it? How they deal with the dysphoric bouts when they resurface?

Maybe I'm just scared, and in doubt about my ability to transition.

Maybe my feelings are better described by "non-binary" than "trans"? For some reason trans feels more right to me. I kind of feel like I swing between no gender and female, rarely, if ever, feeling male.

I'm feeling rather scattered at the moment, and frustrated by all this confusion. I've been seeing a therapist, which has helped a lot but I think engaging with the community here might give me some more clarity. Would love to hear from any of you who have been through similar circumstances!

-Chloe

Not sure if what I have been going through is the same as you are describing, but it is something similar. I have just begun to start to explore the possibility of NB as opposed to MtF.

But right now I am missing my E and P something fierce.

Quote from: Karen on August 28, 2018, 11:17:37 AM
I can totallly relate to the last few points. 

A face app helped me visualize the real me, and I really liked it.   

Hair removal, longer hair, nails, and weight loss have helped me look in the mirror enfemme.  No longer grossed out.  It still triggers some dysphoria given genitles and body shape I wish I had.

And I can completely relate to the desert island...just want to be me.

Hugs

Karen

Which Face App do you use?

Quote from: Myranda on August 29, 2018, 12:43:53 PM
Which Face App do you use?

It is called:  FaceApp for iPhone. 

The mind can only focus on something until it hits a saturation point then the shift of focus must change.  Ever read a good book and don't want to put it down but you have too because you can't tolerate it anymore?  Same thing you hit saturation for that activity.  Dysphoria is the same,  you can only focus on it for so long.

To the lady that mention starting hrt and dysphoria vanishes.  Hrt is part of the obsession.  HRT is alleviating the mental fixation that is attached to the process.  So you start popping the those pills and poof dysphoria vanishes.

Chloe and all,
Thank you SO MUCH for this thread. It very much describes my adventure and helps enormously.  Assigned male at birth, I've always had feminine leanings in all my interests and emotions, but never had a particular problem with being male.  I just wasn't acting like your average man.  But all along I knew that I wasn't being myself.  In my journals I increasingly felt a longing to be myself, even though I wasn't sure what that meant.  I wanted to be the artist and poet I always wanted to be but only seemed to be able to express frustration.  I drank a lot.  Then about a year ago I tried cross dressing.  It felt GREAT.  I feel so comfortable more directly expressing my femininity.  It wasn't that I felt bad about my male body, I just felt so much better and 'at home' dressing as a woman and feeling free to move and feel like a woman, to feel my whole body.  It was a complete emotional and physical transformation.  I gave up drinking and felt even healthier when I expressed my feminine self.

Sometimes I think I'm just imagining this, that somehow my feelings about my mom are the source of this feeling. I did love my mom and her closet full of great dresses so much. My dysphoria is pretty much all social rather than physical, and it comes and goes.  I always have my feelings and emotions, but I think "well why should it be considered feminine to be sensitive, empathetic, cooperative, loving our mother earth, crafting, gardening, knitting and wearing bras" and I get to the last bit and think "Oh! What the heck is going on?"  Right now I like to say;  I can live on the margins of manhood, or I can live at the center of womanhood.  So I'm embracing the experience, giving myself room to grow in whatever direction I need to, and exploring not only gender but my art and poetry and music, so that in the end I try to become a WHOLE PERSON, wherever I may fall on the spectrum.

Thanks again for the thread, it hit the spot for sure.  I hope we do continue the discussion.

Love,
Candy

I'm not one of those who always felt like a girl from an early age. So now, at 65, doubt is the name of the game.

I appreciate what all of you have said so far. This helps me to understand that I really do feel better when crossdressed. Male presentation holds no magic for me. On my desert island, there's no doubt, I'd be female.

But I don't live on a desert island. I love my wife, and she is really crushed with my questioning. If I go on HRT she says it'll be over, although perhaps we could remain close friends. Can I manage my dysphoria without transitioning? I understand what some say, that we need to do this for ourselves. But I'm not alone. I have a responsibility. The doubts continue...

Quote from: VickyS on August 28, 2018, 05:52:26 AM
Just though I'd add a +1 to what has been said before.  It's a HUGE learning curve and an especially difficult one if we are to de-program ourselves to get rid of 40+ years of male gender programming (thanks society!).

Over the last few years, I thought I had fibromyalgia as I had constant joint pain, severe depression, fatigue and memory loss so bad that it was affecting my work.  When I stalled my car and sat there for a few minutes not knowing how to drive, it scared me so I sought help through memory clinics who basically confirmed that I had a terrible memory.

Omg, this is exactly how I feel and have been feeling my whole adult life. I am 26 with a wife and two kids.

Pretty much word for word is how I feel on a regular basis ( I have seen a few GPs and they all put it down to depression and just put me on meds)
I will be seeing my therapist tomorrow and telling her everything about my constant gender thoughts that I have had since I was 11 years old.

Thank you hun for your post!

Quote from: LucyEgo on August 29, 2018, 07:29:48 AM
I hear that Gender is a social construct.

I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 05, 2018, 06:56:09 AM
I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

Totally agree.   Such an extreme gender binary is clearly fueled by social constructs - consumer marketing, Adam and Eve, etc.   But ones sense of gender identify is biological.

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 05, 2018, 06:56:09 AM
I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

I generally break 'gender' down into gender identity, gender presentation (including role) and gender orientation, with gender presentation and role being the primarily socially defined elements, and identity and orientation being largely innate properties that reside within the brain.

This alone is an eye opener for most cisgender audiences, and walking through the explanation of these elements can take the better part of an hour.  This is stuff that may be familiar to us, but it is built on concepts and ideas which have never occurred to most people in the course of their lives. Even socially defined elements of presentation and role are not likely to be understood as such, but assumed to be the result of 'natural law' or similar handwaving, as invisible to members of society as the water is to a swimming fish or the air to a bird.

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 05, 2018, 06:56:09 AM
I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

Spot on! I use to use the whole "Social Construct" argument with myself, trying to intellectualize the dysphoria away. (Spoiler alert: It didn't work) It's reductive, to say the least.

Having very recently acknowledged mine and opened up about it, I feel better. I came out to my therapist, and scheduled my first appointment with an endo today. I know part of feeling less dysphoria is because I know I am doing something - not because I feel less of an aversion to my maleness, or feel less feminine. I am making the best moves I can make, which is all I can ever do. Right now, I am in a good time, place, and location for me to make these moves, so of course it's easy for me to say all of this. Were I in another place, time, etc. who knows. Regardless, hang in there, tigers - to make it within 50 miles of here takes guts!

Has anyone found the faceapp makes them look eerily like their sister? Like really, really, like their sister. I mean, it makes sense...

Quote from: Michelle_P on September 05, 2018, 05:48:01 PM
I generally break 'gender' down into gender identity, gender presentation (including role) and gender orientation, with gender presentation and role being the primarily socially defined elements, and identity and orientation being largely innate properties that reside within the brain.

This alone is an eye opener for most cisgender audiences, and walking through the explanation of these elements can take the better part of an hour.  This is stuff that may be familiar to us, but it is built on concepts and ideas which have never occurred to most people in the course of their lives. Even socially defined elements of presentation and role are not likely to be understood as such, but assumed to be the result of 'natural law' or similar handwaving, as invisible to members of society as the water is to a swimming fish or the air to a bird.

Precisely. Cispeople have such a hard time understanding (as they don't spend time thinking about it as we do) the difference between the three; whereas to us the separation is obvious due to our bodies not aligning with the more powerful and significant brain.

We are born with our gender identity and as a separate entity our sexual orientation.

Hugs to all

Pamela

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 05, 2018, 06:56:09 AM
I have heard this, too, and I think it is a harmful urban legend, unfortunately spread by our own community.  Gender roles and presentations are certainly social constructs, but gender identity is biological.  It is not determined by our genitals, but it is something that we are born with.  We would still have gender identities even if society abolished all gender roles.

I struggle with this thought, rather i'd like to say,  Identity is self-determined, sometimes it is consistent with biological characteristics that are generally recognized, sometimes not. We may be born with it, and in most cases, this seems to be the case, but for both identity and orientation, there seems to be a fair amount of exceptions. Not to say that Wikipedia is the end all but it sort of talks about that here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity

I'd love to see the body of evidence that says it is determined as early as 18 months and decided by about age 3, (refined to about age 6) but that is another discussion. So while I agree there is often an identity formed in the womb, it does not always seem to be the case. This would seem to explain folks that transition with little or no dysphoria and although many really sort of bristle at that, I'm not sure why..

I like Michelle's thought a bit better in that it is usually a characteristic of birth. In the above article, it says a lack of direct language at these ages, causes experts to make assumptions. Cool, but also a bit scary. So what happens between birth and 18 months? Maybe identity catches up with hormonal differences? Maybe something else at times. (socialization, parents etc.) We see brain differences in trans women that look very much like cis female brains to be sure. Is this structure present in the womb or does development post-womb also contribute?

In societies with 3rd genders, it would seem that sociality allows for something different.  Such an amazing and interesting thing.

@LucyEgo wow, so much of what you wrote resonates with me. I've also struggled with feeling some shock at my feminine presentation because it's not quite the image of the woman I wish I could be. I suppose when it comes down to it, the choice is between that woman who might not be everything I wish to be, and the man that I don't really at all want to be. @CandyFreedom phrased this much more eloquently with "I can live on the margins of manhood, or I can live at the center of womanhood." I love that!

I think masculinity can also be something of a shield. It's easier to navigate public spaces as a male and not worry too much about your appearance being scrutinized. You can disappear, at least that's how I've felt. Part of the fear I feel comes from knowing I will be giving up that safe hiding place. It's terrifying at times, but lately the desire to be myself more often and more openly has been growing, and even rivaling the fear. It's taken a while to get used to seeing myself in female presentation. I'm an artist, so I started sketching portraits of myself as a woman, really trying to embrace the details I wished weren't there. It's like exposure therapy, and has been helping a lot. Maybe you can find something similar? Create yourself in a game like The Sims or Second Life? I also used FaceApp early on :). The doubt is maddening for sure. It's a shame many of us are struggling with this, but also comforting to know we're not the only one's who feel this way. I can't express how affirming it's been to hear you all relate your experiences to what I wrote at the start of this thread. I never imagined anyone was having even remotely similar experiences!

Quote from: LucyEgo on August 29, 2018, 07:29:48 AM
How is it going friends?

There's so many things it looks like a can relate to Chloe on. I don't however think our voices are unique. I think a lot of people have these waxing, waning, doubting episodes. We're trapped by our circumstances - external (work, relationships), internal (sense of self, shame, guilt).

This is SO true.  Pretty much all of my doubt and anxiety is based around external factors and how I'm going to interact with others and the public and how they view me.

QuoteIt is certainly a strange thought process, being comfortable seeing myself in the mirror as a man, and being uncomfortable seeing myself as a woman because it doesn't match the woman I think I should be.

I this this is spot on.  It's not that we feel 'wrong' when dressing as a woman, just that it doesn't match what we SHOULD look like in our head. Thank you so much for posting this, it's incredibly helpful.  ;D

QuoteI am scared Im making a huge mistake. I am scared that Im reading too much into it, that Im talking myself into it. Why can't I just accept that cards I've been dealt and be the "man" Im supposed to be. I've said elsewhere that I can be a feminine man, I could wear more flowing clothes and take better care of my appearance (metrosexual). Could I manage it like that?

Again, same here.  I also think is there a psychological reason why I'm feeling what I feel?  Could it be cured with therapy so I could live happily as a man but then the thought of that honestly disgusts me.  It's not that I find men disgusting at all, I LOVE them!  But disgusting is the only word that seems to fit how I feel if you know what I mean.

QuoteI hear that Gender is a social construct. But when you're a man and just want to be treated as one of the ladies and be let into that circle but there's a phallic barrier in the way. It's depressing.

Very very much so - to be let in to the circle.  I think gender HAS a socially constructed element of course, but it's hardwired into our brains, well the research so far seems to point to this.

Quote
There's relationships, family, my significant other, work. And what if I start down a path. How soon do I tell my partner? Do I risk losing her on a whim? But what if things progress significantly with her that Im then unable to explore myself? What if I start to transition but find out it's a mistake? How would I cope with telling the people around me - I made a mistake.

Oh my god.  1000% what I went through.  I did not tell my wife until 3 months after I realized.  I wanted to find out first before risk blowing my marriage apart if it was something I could 'cure'.  I told my doctor, manager at work and mother before my wife.  She knows this and throws it back at me in arguments, but I told her it was too important to risk it, plus her mother was dying at that time so the timing was REALLY bad.

Quote
I wish there was a magical button you could press to find out. If I had no partner and was living alone, I think I'd have probably done something about this a long time ago. I would have had no problem transitioning. The problem isn't how I feel about it. It's how I might affect other people for what might just be a whim.

It's not that I fear living a lone. I fear surviving in a world that revolves around money, being without food and shelter because I've got to pay some exorbitant rent, loads of bills, cell phone, phone, gas, electric, taxes, water, food, car costs etc.  :embarrassed:

So much of my standing still is probably nothing at all to do with gender. I probably don't care if I do get it wrong. I just fear losing everything.

Again, I felt and feel the same way, but some days it's so strong that I don't care if my life DOES come crashing down, I HAVE to do this, then other days I'm doubting again...  ::)

Trouble is, I get virtually no time alone so I can't really experiment with makeup and crossdressing much at all, but the little I have done felt wonderful and that I think speaks volumes.

In the past week I feel that I've reached a lot of clarity about myself. My gender therapist said I'm pretty confident and resolved, and "gender fluid" is about as accurate a term as there is. I go back and forth between male and female (I'm AMAB), and am even comfortable playing in the middle.

How this relates to the OP is that I also wax and wane. Yesterday I went for a long hike as female. I feel that sorta got it out of my system for the moment and today am presenting male. Tomorrow probably back to female for awhile.

There's clearly an enormous range of experiences and identities here. The adventure continues.

BTW about the faceapp, when I present female my wife says I look like my sister!

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

The days I am presenting as masculinish are probably not that masculine by many folks definitions. No matter if I am in a T-shirt, jeans and converses - I still have pretty big boobs, to minimize them is way too much effort. But I've struggled with both the compulsion to present is,  or expectation of what being trans is in terms of femininity and I've felt the loss of anonymity at times.

This along with the other losses I have experienced hurt and sometimes a lot, but what I'm beginning to come to an understanding of myself is that I am what I am, kinda a quirky, rebel of a woman with much to offer the world and those around me. Whether I wear makeup every day or hardly ever, whether I am in a dress, whether I am in jeans and a moto jacket, whether I am talking soft and melodious or not.

When I first started this journey, like many I was very concerned about details. What hairstyle? what clothes? is my style feminine enough? what about piercings and jewelry? will I ever be able to do cat-eye eyeliner? ( ha...not going to happen ) Etc. Maybe that is a necessary thing and was necessary for me to go through but I expended a ton of energy on it and I'm kinda burnt out on it at this point.

It was never about passing for me but at times I felt things like ... " Why did I even go through all of this if I won't even pierce my ears?" what a stupid thing I know, but I beat myself up about it. To me, the most important things are your identity, your comfortability as yourself and are you surrounded by love and support. Everything else is a detail.

I've had a lot of this. I get into cycles that I get really caught up in whether I am binary trans or non-binary or genderfluid. I've come to the point that it really doesn't matter what label best fits me so much as what I want to happen. I want to fully transition physically, regardless as to what label I want to use. I used a similar type logic to get me to start electrolysis, maybe I can use it to get me to finally make the call(s) needed to start HRT...