Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello, I've been a member before but totally forgot about the account I used.

Anyway, I've been on hrt for a little over 3 years and had ffs over a year ago. Even so, I was always hesitant to go out in girl mode. Today, I went to the mall with my daughter to do some clothes shopping and tried some stuff on at VS, forever 21, H&M, etc.

Wow....it was so uneventful. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I don't think anyone knew I was trans or they never indicated it. I even had a older guy who worked at one of the non clothing stores chat me up and joke with me.

I 'm not sure how I feel about the whole experience. Maybe I was expecting too much and it just became a banal shopping trip, I don't know. I feel like I expected to watch a horror movie and ended up watching a documentary about cardboard.

Is there anything I should expect on future trips out? What was it like for some of you ladies when you went out the first time? I don't know if I'll ever go into a full social transition although I think I have the option to do so if I wanted to.

Read this alot with building going out to be one thing in our heads and turns out not like we imagined. Uneventful = good right  )

Im pre hrt pre everything but went out for the 1st time this weekend in a busy shopping centre & train rides, by the sound of it your much better at the whole pass situation than me. That being said i was surprised how normal it felt, should have been v nervous but that seamed to only happen when i had to speak to people. Reflect on the experience and see how you feel about doing it again?

That's amazing, I don't think I could have done it pre-hrt like you were able to. I'm way too much of an introvert to do something like that.

Yeah, it was interesting. I used the women's restroom to check my make up or use the stall and no one seemed to notice or pay me any attention. Also, I don't think passing is an issue at this point of my transition since I get male fail quite often.

I guess I was expecting to feel like "omg! I did it!" with some type of feeling of euphoria. Honestly, it just felt like nothing. Just shopping.

It makes me wonder if I even need or want to socially transition. Like what would be the reason behind the social aspect of transitioning. Is it for validation or is it someone else? I just don't know because I'm not sure how I felt about going out and being treated as a girl. I mean, it was nice and all but hmm..

Hi, Miyann!

Welcome (back) to Susan's Place.

Congratulations on going out as yourself.  We don't transition to be trans.  We transition to be ourselves.  And going shopping as yourself feels ... normal.

My circumstances were a bit different.  Whereas you didn't feel a strong need to be out socially, that was my main source of dysphoria.  I had to get out there, and I didn't really care if my body was ready or not.  My first time was pure joy as my fears crumbled one by one.  No one looked at me funny, no one said a mean word to me.  I was just treated as a "normal" woman.  After a lifetime of being and feeling weird, being seen as "normal" was a source of joy.  When I got home, my main feeling was that the fear had gone.

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When I started therapy back in 2009 my GT explained there are three different human needs that drive Gender Dysphoria; social acceptance, acceptance of how we look and acceptance of who we are. Therapy is vital for helping a person to explorer these needs so they can determine how to meet them.

In my case, social acceptance was vital for my female alter. My GT explained her encouraging me to transition was "because" I was so androgynous. That she would suggested other options if I had difficulty being perceived by others as a woman out of concern than transition would worsen my needs rather than fill them. Have you considered that regardless of how well others may perceive you as a woman that you feel the way you do because social acceptance is simply not important to you?

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 24, 2018, 06:43:03 AM
Congratulations on going out as yourself.  We don't transition to be trans.  We transition to be ourselves.  And going shopping as yourself feels ... normal.

My circumstances were a bit different.  Whereas you didn't feel a strong need to be out socially, that was my main source of dysphoria.  I had to get out there, and I didn't really care if my body was ready or not.  My first time was pure joy as my fears crumbled one by one.  No one looked at me funny, no one said a mean word to me.  I was just treated as a "normal" woman.  After a lifetime of being and feeling weird, being seen as "normal" was a source of joy.  When I got home, my main feeling was that the fear had gone.

Thank you Kathy and thank you for sharing your story!

Quote from: Virginia on September 24, 2018, 07:48:12 AM
When I started therapy back in 2009 my GT explained there are three different human needs that drive Gender Dysphoria; social acceptance, acceptance of how we look and acceptance of who we are. Therapy is vital for helping a person to explorer these needs so they can determine how to meet them.

In my case, social acceptance was vital for my female alter. My GT explained her encouraging me to transition was "because" I was so androgynous. That she would suggested other options if I had difficulty being perceived by others as a woman out of concern than transition would worsen my needs rather than fill them. Have you considered that regardless of how well others may perceive you as a woman that you feel the way you do because social acceptance is simply not important to you?

Wow...thank you Virginia, that is incredibly enlightening. I think that you're right and my need for social acceptance isn't that great compared to my need for acceptance of my own appearance and acceptance of who I am. I feel like no matter how I look to others, I feel that I will never really accept my looks nor will I accept who I am.

I see every little blemish, every little imperfection, every little thing about my body and judge it more harshly than anyone else ever could. When I'm told I'm "pretty" or "attractive", I feel nothing. I wish I could feel happy about it but I don't. I look in the mirror sometimes and think "they must be blind" lol.

As for accepting myself, I think that part of the reason I don't socially transition is because I still haven't accepted the fact that I am transgender. I sometimes have a difficult time saying it out loud, even to myself.

Wow, this has gotten a bit deeper than I intended. Thank you for the sharing and your enlightening perspective.

Accepting yourself is the first step. After that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  :)

Hi miyann!

Congrats on grabing the courage to go out dressed as a woman!

In my case, I've always been very, very shy. I've always tried to keep a profile as low as possible. However, at some point, dysphoria and desire to socially transition became unbearable. So much that only a couple of weeks after starting HRT, almost a full year before FFS, I started my RLE, almost full time. Oh, I am pretty sure that I was nowhere near passable... But still, it felt like heaven. I felt that I was exactly where I was supposed to be. Then FFS came and... well... lets say that even if I tried to pass as a guy, I would not be able to. So pretty from one day to the other my RLE became full time and permanent.

So for me, I feel that social transition was a very fundamental part of my overal transition and this at a very early phase of transition.

It's funny because just before deciding to transition I thought that there was no way in the world that I'd go through a RLE before FFS and profoundly admired trans women who did it! But then, I did it... Not out of courage, but out of despair. And I'm so glad I did.

Warm hugs,

Sarah

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Congratulations, I hope you had fun and found some treasures. Not a bad first day out from the sounds of it. I had been going out well before transition, so I have little perspective. However, sounds like you're just going to continue to breeze through. So YAY! Uneventful days and getting hit on are in the future.

Conratulations on your girly shopping trip.  It sounds like fun.

Quote from: miyann on September 24, 2018, 08:45:21 AM
. . . because I still haven't accepted the fact that I am transgender. I sometimes have a difficult time saying it out loud, even to myself.

For what it's worth, I definitely think you are transgender. 

1.  The commitment it takes to get up every, single day and take a girl pill whose purpose is to make your body less like a man and more like a woman.  2. And getting your face sliced up with all the stress, pain and expense that involves.  Just to look more like a girl.  3. Going on girly, shopping trips to buy women's clothes,  All these simply are not the things cisgender guys would normally do.

@ Devlyn

Thank you! I'm definitely trying to work on it!

@ Sarah

Thank you for sharing, sounds like your transition was incredibly sucessful!

@ Harley

Thanks! I found a few cute things but spent more than I should have. I've been transitioning for a while (In my 30's, hrt for 3+ years, ffs, etc.) just wanted to see what the whole deal was with going out in girl mode was all about. I guess it's not too important for me personally. lol, getting hit on, would be....unpleasant.

Going out before transitioning....that must have been incredibly difficult.

@ Jane

Thank you, spending time with my daughter and shopping was quite fun. As for being transgender, I know that I am transgender but....I still can't accept it, after all these years in transition (3+) I don't know, I feel like as long as I live as a male, I can live in denial, lol.

Thank you though, I do get where you're coming from. I guess I'm.....well...I'm not sure where I'm going with this or why I even posted my original post. I feel a bit emotionally empty today.

Quote from: miyann on September 24, 2018, 10:01:20 AM
@ Harley

Thanks! I found a few cute things but spent more than I should have. I've been transitioning for a while (In my 30's, hrt for 3+ years, ffs, etc.) just wanted to see what the whole deal was with going out in girl mode was all about. I guess it's not too important for me personally. lol, getting hit on, would be....unpleasant.

Going out before transitioning....that must have been incredibly difficult.

I'm also 30s and been transitioning a while, sadly I haven't found my FFS surgeon yet.. but on the topic of going out, when it is just another day "that's when you know you've made it!" So congratulations!

Going out pre-transition wasn't really "difficult". It was unpleasant at times and people were discouraging, but it was very fufilling for me (despite the unpleasantries). It kept me going and helped me find my path.

Quote from: Harley Quinn on September 24, 2018, 10:26:00 AM
I'm also 30s and been transitioning a while, sadly I haven't found my FFS surgeon yet.. but on the topic of going out, when it is just another day "that's when you know you've made it!" So congratulations!

Going out pre-transition wasn't really "difficult". It was unpleasant at times and people were discouraging, but it was very fufilling for me (despite the unpleasantries). It kept me going and helped me find my path.

Not like you need FFS, Harley.. I've seen your photos and you look absolutely gorgeous  :D



@miyann Honestly sounds like you are 'male failing' more than you probably think... and at that point, isn't 'girl mode' just 'dressing up' ?.. Or I could be wrong  :)

I'm jealous, honestly.. I'm pre-hrt, and I get very nervous when i've gone out in 'girl mode', though i've done it on occasion. That you can do it whenever you want and it just feels like another day is a huge win by any measure!

Social acceptance has never been first on my priority list either so I definitely follow there. I am starting HRT next month, but I probably won't be really going 'girl mode' for a year(+) either. It saddens me that the battle for self-acceptance never really seems to end. On the other hand, many cis-women also struggle with self-acceptance and liking their own appearance, so it's not like we are really that different on the point.. we just come from a much worse starting point  :-\

Quote from: Anastasia E on September 24, 2018, 12:47:32 PM
Not like you need FFS, Harley.. I've seen your photos and you look absolutely gorgeous  :D

I appreciate that.  I wish that I saw myself as others seem to.  I may just be photogenic. 🙉🙈🙊

Its a brave first step towards social transitioning (if thats why you choose to do).  I found that from day one on HRT I knew it was right and went full time then and there passing or not. Eventually about 4 months in passing wasn't as an issue. Now... Its just normal. :) For me it wasn't being 100% female that I needed but just to find that happy space where I am me. Thats mostly female... and thats ok. That being said I don't present as male at all because it does my head in! That part of me needs to stay on the inside.

@ Haley,

Yeah, I agree that people can be pretty awful sometimes. It's amazing that you were able to go through the growing pains and finally find your path. And yeah, photos are funny. I'm rarely fond of my own photos as well.

@ Anastasia

Wait, you're pre-hrt and you look that pretty already? Geez, and your the jealous one? lol. I wished I looked as good as you pre-transition.

Also, "going girl mode is just dressing up once you regularly male fail" is such a great point, I've never even considered it from that angle. With my short haircut, guy clothes, short and skinny self, with no boobs or butt, I have no idea how the heck anyone can mistake me for a girl. lol

Yeah, self acceptance is so tricky. The less you need it, the more you have and vice versa. May I ask why you're deciding to do a social transition after a year or longer?

@ Krobinson

Wow, 4 months before going full time? That must have been incredibly daunting at first. I was at 3+ years before I even left the house dressed. lol

Quote from: miyann on September 24, 2018, 02:43:11 PM
@ Anastasia

Wait, you're pre-hrt and you look that pretty already? Geez, and your the jealous one? lol. I wished I looked as good as you pre-transition.

Also, "going girl mode is just dressing up once you regularly male fail" is such a great point, I've never even considered it from that angle. With my short haircut, guy clothes, short and skinny self, with no boobs or butt, I have no idea how the heck anyone can mistake me for a girl. lol

Yeah, self acceptance is so tricky. The less you need it, the more you have and vice versa. May I ask why you're deciding to do a social transition after a year or longer?

Thanks! .. but it's a super flattering photo, and I'm nowhere near as pretty 'irl'  :( For one, it's a wig and I hate wigs.. my real hair is really thin and I've been unable to grow it out (I have some hopes HRT will help with that, but it might not). And when I don't smile, I have very obvious masculine features. I think HRT will help sort that out, at least..

Well, the main reason I am transitioning is to be more comfortable with my own body, which probably means i'll start being more comfortable just showing femininity after a year or longer when (hopefully) I might male fail once in a while.. but maybe I am hopelessly naive to think it will 'kind of just happen'    :)

Or I might decide to hell with it and go full time earlier, since i just moved to a major European city where I don't know anyone and am beholden to no one. I'm just kind of introverted and not very confident so I figure it'll take some time at least..

Quote from: miyann on September 24, 2018, 02:43:11 PM

@ Krobinson

Wow, 4 months before going full time? That must have been incredibly daunting at first. I was at 3+ years before I even left the house dressed. lol

I hold to a philosophy that a fear faced is a strength gained. My first outing fully dressed ever was to get a bra fittting and nails done lol. :) The next most scary was prob going to work dressed... no issues I wear skirts etc every day now. Then it was the swimming pool... again not as scary as you might think! Its just a matter of pushing the boundaries till they aren't there anymore. Its less about what you look like and more about letting the real you shine.

If you are confident and own your real self then people see it and it doesn't matter what you look. If people have issues? Ignore them. I don't need most strangers anyway. early on people would stare. I'd stare right back and challenge them to say anything. They all backed down. I won't be intimidated by boxes or 'rules' that don't fit me.

One of my jobs was in manufacturing engineering and dealt with a lot of what if's. When I first started out after beginning HRT two years ago a lot of my thought ended up at what if. Fortunately while I sometimes get stares, I also get compliments which send me to the moon. So far no incidents that would validate my "what if's. I did have one guy staring at me in the Dr's office, but when I asked him "what's your problem" he stopped and went back to reading a magazine. It's tough because I have never had anyone pay attention to me and I got used to it.

Quote from: DawnOday on September 24, 2018, 04:12:41 PM
One of my jobs was in manufacturing engineering and dealt with a lot of what if's. When I first started out after beginning HRT two years ago a lot of my thought ended up at what if. Fortunately while I sometimes get stares, I also get compliments which send me to the moon. So far no incidents that would validate my "what if's. I did have one guy staring at me in the Dr's office, but when I asked him "what's your problem" he stopped and went back to reading a magazine. It's tough because I have never had anyone pay attention to me and I got used to it.

I think also that some of the stares are actually just because people like how you look. A few people have told me that and I still think they are crazy! But, as an introverted 'guy' people don't look at you. When you are presenting female - particularly in an evening dress etc then you are going to get attention and its something you need to get used to.

Quote from: krobinson103 on September 24, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
I think also that some of the stares are actually just because people like how you look. A few people have told me that and I still think they are crazy! But, as an introverted 'guy' people don't look at you. When you are presenting female - particularly in an evening dress etc then you are going to get attention and its something you need to get used to.

@krobinson103 - Hey Kelly, I totally agree with that, there are actually a few different scenarios that transwomen need to be thoughtful of. 
A) people are checking you out  because many people like to 'people watch' - and there's nothing more to it.
B) people stare at you because you look good.... because most people like to check out pretty/handsome or well dressed people.
c) Some people notice a transwoman and are genuinely amazed at how well presented they are - still a huge positive and one that I personally noticed in Auckland a couple of months ago - well dressed transgirl that didn't full pass but looked very sharply dressed - but she look a bit nervous and didn't make eye contact with anyone which gave her a slightly unfriendly demeanor - I couldn't help wondering if mean comments now and then had affected her confidence to the point she had adopted a 'steel' look on her face  -IMO she might be missing out on meeting people who would otherwise be her friend or more...
d) the mean stare - yes it happens - best way to deal with it is as Kelly said above.

Just my thoughts,

Sonja.

Update:


So after my first post, I decided to stay in girl mode for the rest of the week as a personal experiment:

Monday 9-24-18:

Grocery shopping, did some errands, drove around, stuck in traffic. Totally uneventful.

Tuesday 9-25-18:

Met a female friend at a local bar near her place that evening. Place wasn't too busy, a few people here and there. Interesting enough, after about an hour there, one of the guys from the bar area (maybe early or mid 40's? ) decided to head over to my friend and I to chat. He then asked me if I was single and I told him I was trans. That ended the conversation pretty quickly.

Wednesday 9-26-18:

Had lunch with a male friend I haven't seen for almost a year (who knew me prior to my transition). He was super sweet and we talked for a few hours. Noticed that he was treating me like as a woman by being nice enough to complement me by telling me I looked great, opening doors, walking me to and from my car, telling me he had to pay since he was the man, apologized when I caught him checking out a girl passing by (this was quite hilarious btw), etc. I'm not sure if it he was treating me that way on a conscious or subconscious level.

All in all, it was fun but felt like a lot of work, just getting ready with clothes and makeup felt like a hassle. I'm on the fence about going all week in girl mode since I don't have anything planned until this weekend.

How long does it take until all of this feels normal?

Hi Miyann!

I'm very glad that your little experiment went well!

I vividly remember my first day outside dressed in feminine attiré (well, it was more androgynous than feminine, but it was a radical step for me)... Wow... My heart pounded so hard! [emoji176]

And then months passed, HRT began operating its magic, beard was slowly zapped away, I kept using more and more feminine stuff from my wardrobe, gradually abandoning the androgynous world and becoming decidedly more feminine in my way of dressing... Then immediately after FFS and hip recontouring (which happened 1 week apart), there was a big leap in the way I dressed - I started wearing skirts and then heels, I stopped using headcovers (my transplanted hair had in the meantime regrown to an acceptable length). My self-confidence soared... I found and refined my own style... Eventually, this last summer I dared wearing a swimsuit and going to the beach - in Netherlands, Italy and Malta - without any problems. It was nirvana... [emoji3265]

Nowadays, my heart no longer pounds so much, but I still can't refrain from smiling of contentment when, looking in the mirror in "full-fledged Sarah mode" I say to myself: "Yup, Sarah... This is how it looks to be your true you!" A feeling that I never had along the previous four decades of my life.

About being the target of flirting... Yeah... I have ambivalent feelings about it. [emoji854] As a strict lesbian, happily married and mom of two wonderful kids, it would never cross my mind to have an affair. The environments where I live are not really propitious to attract the wrong kind of guys. To the more "risky" places, such as bars and music concerts, I only go with my wife and we very often hold hands and wear identical wedding rings, which so far has worked pretty well as a deterrent. When I am not with my wife or kids, however, things are different, but still pretty manageable.

I work as an emergency physician, so first responders who bring patients to our ED and who don't yet know about me being a trans woman, will sometimes give me "frisky & flirty" looks but always in a very gallant and respectful way. And it is very flattering because it's... "Validating", you know?

This also happens regularly with male patients, especially in their mid-30's and 40's, but almost only when I'm alone in the examination room with them. They tend to be a tad more daring than EMS personnel. Some say that I'm cute... They ask about my tastes, if I live in the neighborhood, etc. On two occasions, I was asked if I'd "like to have a drink, sometime"... [emoji2360]

When they come with their wives or girlfriends, they tend to be much more restrained and, instead, I sometimes get another kind of look from their wives, the kind that says: "You better keep your hands far off from my man, bitch!" [emoji23]

I swear, Miyann, this would be a paradise for a sociologist! [emoji1787]

Anyways, I never say that I am a trans woman. To no one. My coworkers know (I transitioned at my present workplace). Some EMS people also know. If other people know, I don't care, as long at they treat me as who I really am: a female doctor. So far, nobody confronted me with this. If someone's flirting goes too far, I would just say that I am married and not interested in other relationships... and with patients, I could also use the argument that it would be highly unethical. So I feel that I am covered. And so far I did not have to deal with any freak or stalker, so... I'm good.

Now, if I was looking for a relationship, I would very likely disclose the fact that I am a trans woman at a very early stage. As I see it, if you can't trust someone enough to let her/him know something so fundamental about you, then the relationship has no real future. But that's me, of course. Besides, it can be a disgrace (and even dangerous) if the other person finds it out at a more advanced stage of the relationship...

Anyways... my thoughts. Loved to read you!

Warm regards,

Sarah

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Hi Sarah,

Wow, thank you for sharing, sounds like your transition has been amazing!

I actually have been on hrt for years, and already had ffs along with a pretty decent starting point prior to my transition so I wasn't worried about passing since hrt has generally worked pretty well (although I'm still pretty flat chested and have no butt whatsoever, lol........sigh).

As for the reason I told the guy at the bar that I was trans, it was because I wanted him to go away. I was irritated that he decided to interrupt us as my friend and I were catching up. So I cut the conversation short by telling him I was trans when he asked me if I was single.

tbh, I'm not sure if I'm going to go for a social transition, it seems to be more of a hassle than anything else.

Quote from: miyann on September 27, 2018, 04:14:26 AM
All in all, it was fun but felt like a lot of work, just getting ready with clothes and makeup felt like a hassle...
How long does it take until all of this feels normal?

Because it IS a hassle; the reason most women don't bother with clothes and makeup unless they need to and others don't bother at all. Have you considered that your comfort level may be closer to not bothering, and you may be making yourself do something that is not right for you?

Quote from: Virginia on September 24, 2018, 07:48:12 AM
When I started therapy back in 2009 my GT explained there are three different human needs that drive Gender Dysphoria; social acceptance, acceptance of how we look and acceptance of who we are. Therapy is vital for helping a person to explorer these needs so they can determine how to meet them.

In my case, social acceptance was vital for my female alter. My GT explained her encouraging me to transition was "because" I was so androgynous. That she would suggested other options if I had difficulty being perceived by others as a woman out of concern than transition would worsen my needs rather than fill them.

Hello Virginia and Miyann

I have been closeted for many years crossdressing and bodyshaving all my adult life but have always managed to occasionally go out in girl mode for a short walk in the park if I am local or for more mingling with people unknown to me if in another town. However I have been on HRT 7 months and fully intend to publicly transition in 2019.

Because I do not do it often, I still feel a bit wary but nothing like as nervous as the first time and so I feel I am "getting there".

I agree that there are 3 stages in the process to transition and to reduce GD as you state but for me the order is thus:

1. Self acceptance - I have that completely now.

2. Social acceptance - This is something I desire and will work hard to achieve by further HRT, by surgeries including voice, by make up, by clothing. However I realise it has to be two ways; I cannot make others perceive/treat me as female. I hope that may come in the medium term but no guarantees.

3. Acceptance of how I look - This I consider to be the most difficult as I fear I may probably always not be up to the  standard for a cisfemale. I hope to blend in at best but I do not expect to pass fully.

Hugs

Pamela

Hi,

Thanks for this chat Miyann!  I like the three angles of acceptance, which I feel are all part of one's self-image.

My main drive is self-acceptance, which to me is to be more self-aware.  I can't believe I hid this from myself for so many years, but I am old-school where denial was an accepted part of being male.

Pamela, I liked your summary, but on #3, accepting how you look isn't male, female, or trans.  No person with an ounce of self-awareness cannot see themselves in a mirror and not admit that this or that could look better.  Only the totally narcissistic will be happy with what they see, regardless what they see.  My feeling is that the people on this chat are more aware of themselves than ordinary people, and this blind acceptance will never be acceptable. In other words, #3 is not transgender or cisgender, it is just human.

Aspire to be human!  I'll take it over being a worm.   ;D

Yours, Eva...