Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have seen many women here wait several years before pursuing VFS after years of voice therapy and training. But given that voice is a critical part of passing and a meaningful source of dysphoria, I wonder why women generally don't pursue it earlier in transition, especially if using a female voice causes strain.

I understand that VFS has meaningful risks, isn't always effective, creates significant personal disruption and is not a substitute for therapy. Hence, it's been thought of as an operation to pursue only as a last resort. Still, if you're going to do it, it seems like something to do earlier in transition rather than later.

What are people's thoughts on this?

I do see the value in achieving a feminine voice early in transition.  My voice is the thing that gives me the most concern for my passing as a woman.  I started voice therapy only yesterday and wish I started from day one.  I was told then that I should start electrolysis first, but the voice is a dead giveaway.
I do feel therapy will help me speak like a woman, but to sound like one may require surgery.

I am one to try other options before surgery, and my suggestion is try therapy immediately and go from there.

Hugs and smiles from a California girl

Voice training should be done as early as possible.  VFS should be seen as a last resort.

Most often it is recommended by surgeons to have VFS last. I've had FFS, I'm having SRS in January followed by VFS later in 2019 as my final transitional procedure. The reason for this is that you remove the risk of damaging the VFS results with intubation tubes for other procedures.

With procedures like Glottoplasty and FemLar coming as far as they have, the whole 'last resort' mentality regarding voice surgery is not accurate anymore. Yes the procedures come with a certain level of risk, but so does every surgical procedure.

Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on September 29, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
Most often it is recommended by surgeons to have VFS last. I've had FFS, I'm having SRS in January followed by VFS later in 2019 as my final transitional procedure. The reason for this is that you remove the risk of damaging the VFS results with intubation tubes for other procedures.

With procedures like Glottoplasty and FemLar coming as far as they have, the whole 'last resort' mentality regarding voice surgery is not accurate anymore. Yes the procedures come with a certain level of risk, but so does every surgical procedure.

Good point on the intubation thing. Hadn't thought of that. In addition, as you say, it's very possible in the next 3-4 years we'll see further advancement of VFS procedures.

My take on it being a last resort is because voice training is more successful than people tend to think. On top of that even with vfs, if you don't learn inflection you just sound like a high pitched dude.

Of course training is scary and it takes a lot of work. Vfs is seen as easier and I'm sure it is but it's not a stand alone solution.

Yes - I completely agree on the need and value of voice therapy, with or without surgery. It's not just about pitch, it's about all the other things that make up a female voice.

I guess my question is...let's say you start out doing voice therapy early in transition (even pre-fulltime) and after many months, you have a good idea of how far therapy by itself is going to take you. Why not just do VFS then?

The only reason I'm asking is because most people I've seen on this board who have done VFS do it as one of the last steps in transition (even after GRS), not one of the first steps, and I don't really understand why given the importance of voice for passing.

Said another way, for those who did do VFS late in transition, do you wish you had done it early in transition?

I'm all for surgery if training doesn't get you to where you want to be in the pitch department.

I just don't like how some people seem to think that they can simply throw money at this and have a passing voice simply by being cut on. It's just not quite that simple unfortunately.

I've heard of people requiring botox injections and having to pay extra for VFS due to however long they strained their vocal cords to produce a female voice prior to opting for VFS. It can cause a 'vocal tremor' which needs treatment of it's own. Maybe this was from lack of training and incorrect vocal practise though, I'm not sure.

Speaking to high, to low or to loud will result in voice problems before or after surgery. A trained ear can detect the problems and address them before they cause issues. I would recommend therapy before surgery so you learn the proper way to use your voice and so your aware of what you need from surgery. In my case, I knew I required a good deal of change in pitch and had the surgeon offered less than was possible, I wouldn't have had surgery.

By the time you have had therapy and schedule surgery, you will probably be a ways into your transition so you may have already checked a few items off your list.

I was told a 5.5 mm intubation tube and 4 months post VFS was a minimum before another intubation.

I had 9 months of vocal training and it taught me the basics of a feminine voice. My pitch and timbre were male sounding.

I have a cricothyroid subluxation which took me to 170 to 185 HZ. My range was 15 HZ after 6 months. Then I had a glottoplasty and my range is 150 plus HZ I am at about 270 to 330 HZ normal pitch and can go from 270 to 450/460 hz if I try. My vocal folds are just now starting to touch at times. My voice will need more time in order to heal. It has been almost 6 months.

I have learned so much from my vocal transition. During this last iteration I was made fun of at an operational meeting and my boss asked a very insensitive question at a high level meeting. I have had a lot of questions asked from strangers and acquaintances. I just love how people speak slower and louder after they hear me speak.

I am glad I am past my FFS, GCS (2) and hair follicle transplants (2).  My dysphoria is gone and I have a suit of armor now or better a dress of armor.

VFS can take a year to heal and there can be poor results. Anyhow, the videos and pics of my vocal cords show a beautiful piece of work done. At some point I will show a few pics. I do have a growth behind the one vocal fold and it needs to heal or be removed. I see the doctor in a month. I record my voice daily and periodically go back in time. I am making progress and it is evident each week.

I hike on Saturdays with an 85 pound pack. There are three hills on the 5 plus mile hike. One is a steep and long hill, one is long and moderately steep and one is very long. I only have the feeling of restricted air passage on the one hill. I go a pace that is pretty fast and my breathing is a little restricted. I panicked a bit the first time I took the hill on after my glottoplasty. I am use to it now. Spinning I do not have an issue

Rachel

Personally I consider VFS on an even tier of importance with SRS, and most likely worth getting first.

Learning to use your instrument optimally is one thing - having an instrument that is capable of doing what you are telling it to do is what VFS gives you. The modern glottoplasty procedures tend to yield fantastic or at the least "better" results.

People can argue for training all they want... but in the end... do you want to be able to yell? Cheer? Speak in a variety of registers and volumes? Do you want the ability to do all of this sounding flawlessly female, without people clocking you or having doubts, and without being hideously self-conscious of your voice? Do you want to actually live your life?

If you answered yes, and you were not blessed with the voice of Ross Matthews, I cannot imagine why someone would pass up what VFS offers - the ability to use your voice and hear yourself.

Funny how pleasing other's need for you to conform to their ideals equates to "actually living your life".

I'll stay out of that prison.  :)

Quote from: Devlyn on October 09, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Funny how pleasing other's need for you to conform to their ideals equates to "actually living your life".

I'll stay out of that prison.  :)

One could say the same about HRT or SRS, why is voice any different?

Guys don't really seem to care much but women give me a VERY peculiar look when they hear me speak. Some would be smiling before I talk, then... A frown! Lol I do find it funny [emoji12]
I wouldn't jump into any major surgery, and yes, somedays my voice does bother me... But I think having VFS is only really wise to do if you're "passable" in every other way

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Lucca on October 09, 2018, 12:04:33 PM
One could say the same about HRT or SRS, why is voice any different?

It isn't any different, if described in terms of needing to bolster others perceptions.  ;)

Quote from: OU812 on October 09, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Personally I consider VFS on an even tier of importance with SRS, and most likely worth getting first.

Learning to use your instrument optimally is one thing - having an instrument that is capable of doing what you are telling it to do is what VFS gives you. The modern glottoplasty procedures tend to yield fantastic or at the least "better" results.

People can argue for training all they want... but in the end... do you want to be able to yell? Cheer? Speak in a variety of registers and volumes? Do you want the ability to do all of this sounding flawlessly female, without people clocking you or having doubts, and without being hideously self-conscious of your voice? Do you want to actually live your life?

If you answered yes, and you were not blessed with the voice of Ross Matthews, I cannot imagine why someone would pass up what VFS offers - the ability to use your voice and hear yourself.

Yes - this is my perspective as well. I'd put VFS and SRS on the same level. I've seen so many women who've said that VFS has done so much for their confidence because they don't have to worry about one little slip in the voice. And as you say, it's not just the speaking I care about but all the other girly noises that I want to sound feminine (or worry about accidentally coming out masculine-sounding).

My view is that you basically start voice therapy at the same time that you start hair removal, very early and prior to full-time. You take voice therapy for 9-12 months and see where you are at. If you still have doubts about the confidence in your voice, you should be aggressive in your VFS timeline. I know the surgery has lots of risks, but the upside in confidence seems massive.

What's wrong this thinking? I'd love hear counter views. Am I discounting the risks too much?

Sarah

Perhaps my information is outdated, but my understanding was that the success rate of VFS was lower than for other procedures.  Certainly, I have heard the results of VFS gone wrong, and it was not pretty at all.

That and the fact that insurance wouldn't cover it were enough to convince me that it was not for me.

Voice does seem to be something that can be worked on. Training it will work, to a good degree, and someone can really improve. Look at how actors learn accents. Its the same.

For VFS, I would say for those of us, who are extremely dare I say it passable, having a very female sounding voice can be good. For those of us who are not, it would be a mixed bag.

Candice Cane, on that reality show, we all watched but had very mixed feelings about, pointed out to Caitlyn how her voice was Her, Her journey. Some of us will relate to this, others won't.   Its a journey you may want people to know about..

As for the safety, If anyone has read some of my posts, Im pretty pro surgery all round and consider myself a future member of the plastic posse once I hit 60 years old.... :laugh: :laugh:
However, I will say VFS is not widely done in the States, Not done at all in the UK (best standards in the world) so beware...
My rule of thumb - If Dubrow and the other one on Botched won't do it its not that safe!

It looks like a very tough recovery. You can't avoid talking for long. Muscles will struggle to heal if used alot post surgery.

I would not compare it to GRS, or FFS. As frankly some Cis Women do sound Manly and theres nothing wrong with that!
GRS gives you the body of a Anatomical Woman. FFS puts you into the facial range, the voice though, its less of a issue.

I would see it as a last resort if voice training can't get you what you want.
A bit like Butt implants if the Hip Thrusts and Abductions don't give you the Booty you need.

Thats my 2 cents. Will add lastly, I am of the disposition that even if I ever after a Caitlynesque spend of $$$$$$$ looked Cis Female, I would still want people to know Im Trans. so the voice for me, isnt that big, For others though ......I guess you risk what you need to get where you want to be.

Quote from: KathyLauren on October 09, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
Perhaps my information is outdated, but my understanding was that the success rate of VFS was lower than for other procedures.  Certainly, I have heard the results of VFS gone wrong, and it was not pretty at all.

That and the fact that insurance wouldn't cover it were enough to convince me that it was not for me.

Its got a bit better with results, from what Ive heard, however it is still considered high risk and I would not recommend this. A botched voice is a big problem!

Please don't accuse me of watching that garbage.

Anyway, yes you can absolutely train your voice to be able to yell and in time it becomes natural. The only thing I worry about any more is inflection, which a surgery recipient would have to do as well. Anyone who claims that people with trained choices can't have range is also woefully ignorant.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on October 09, 2018, 02:45:40 PM
Please don't accuse me of watching that garbage.

Anyway, yes you can absolutely train your voice to be able to yell and in time it becomes natural. The only thing I worry about any more is inflection, which a surgery recipient would have to do as well. Anyone who claims that people with trained choices can't have range is also woefully ignorant.

Agree you can get alot of power in a re trained voice.

Disagree E TV is Garbage, Not everyones bag and I understand that, however to call it Garbage sounds a bit WASPY if Im honest with you darling.....

You said we all watched that cringe fest "reality" show, but I did not. I refuse to watch anything of the sort.

As for calling it garbage, I stand by that. It's a video freak sideshow. It is so others can marvel at how weird certain groups are when they're following scripts and having fake drama added in. It's not a positive thing in any way.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on October 09, 2018, 03:12:28 PM
You said we all watched that cringe fest "reality" show, but I did not. I refuse to watch anything of the sort.

As for calling it garbage, I stand by that. It's a video freak sideshow. It is so others can marvel at how weird certain groups are when they're following scripts and having fake drama added in. It's not a positive thing in any way.

Wow....You are a bit prickly and judgemental.    The phrase that we all watched, is a turn of speech, not a literal statement.   

Now while I can totally accept you don't like a show, and could have said something sensible like, I don't watch reality TV and find it vacuous and not my thing.....you didn't....   Heres my 2 cents on your views

Given we are both Trans to call a bunch of Trans women on a reality show  a freak show seems poor taste and a bit of a shot in the foot if we expect people to be nice to Us.......I mean if someone said some of us look like Men in Dresses were would not like that......Food for thought........ Thats With Caitlyn show....    As for the KUWTK show the star star is not Blonde, nor skinny, and most of the Clan are in inter racial relationships......Prehaps theres something else here?? Not feeling your WASPness....it comes over loud and clear (and yes even in the UK, my Ethnic wife and I know what WASP means!)

Lexa xx

I watched the show and enjoyed most of it. I think it was a good platform for educating people on what transgender people go through. There were a lot of powerful and heartfelt moments which truly felt more like a documentary than a reality series and it opened people's eyes who told me about it (one being a laser technician who simply didn't understand what transgender meant before watching it). Sad that it got cancelled, was definitely one of the best things to come out of the Karjenner franchise.

Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on October 09, 2018, 06:18:57 PM
I watched the show and enjoyed most of it. I think it was a good platform for educating people on what transgender people go through. There were a lot of powerful and heartfelt moments which truly felt more like a documentary than a reality series and it opened people's eyes who told me about it (one being a laser technician who simply didn't understand what transgender meant before watching it). Sad that it got cancelled, was definitely one of the best things to come out of the Karjenner franchise.

Thank you. While there are some parts in the shows particularly the second series that are not so great, overall the show did shine some light on trans gender and present some examples of reality for trans people in America.
Certainly not a freak show!

I can understand if someone wants FFS for a prominent brow or to have their nose done. Anything else I would definitely wait.

The voice is just one part of the total package or presentation. I myself waited a few years after SRS/ffs to get vocal surgery and i regret it. It was the icing on the cake and opened the door for a normal life integrated into society as any other girl.

Please understand for me transition was just a process to a final goal of being integrated into society as any other girl. That was MY OWN point of view. I do realize there are some people that have no issue being a trans person in the eyes of the world and for them I suspect vocal surgery might not be important.............

Quote from: Katie on October 10, 2018, 07:29:51 AM
The voice is just one part of the total package or presentation. I myself waited a few years after SRS/ffs to get vocal surgery and i regret it. It was the icing on the cake and opened the door for a normal life integrated into society as any other girl.

Please understand for me transition was just a process to a final goal of being integrated into society as any other girl. That was MY OWN point of view. I do realize there are some people that have no issue being a trans person in the eyes of the world and for them I suspect vocal surgery might not be important.............

I've met a lot of trans girls when I was more actively involved in the work of our local trans support group and I was surprised to see how many of them just didn't care about their voice at all. Very few of them had a voice that passed.
Some of them doesn't care about passing that much, some of them deluded themselves into thinking that they just pass fine in every situation because people rarely point out that they have been clocked.

Quite a few of them worked in the same area as me, some of them even in the same building, so I had the chance to observe how others perceive them. They were always clocked because of their voices if they passed otherwise.
People usually don't tell them that they know, but they still gossip about them behind their backs.

I want to be perceived as a woman and my inadequate voice plays a large part in not going full-time for years. Most of those girls thought I would transition quickly because on a good day I can pass without HRT and makeup but that's really not enough for me.

Edit: And even if I take out passing from the equation, I just don't like my voice the way it is, it doesn't allow me to express myself the way I want to.

Quote from: Katie on October 10, 2018, 07:29:51 AM
Please understand for me transition was just a process to a final goal of being integrated into society as any other girl. That was MY OWN point of view. I do realize there are some people that have no issue being a trans person in the eyes of the world and for them I suspect vocal surgery might not be important.............

I agree. If you blend in with other women, a whole lot of uncomfortable realities are avoided. There's a very clear difference, even among people who intend to be accepting and understanding. People aren't always aware of how they act differently.

I think a lot of people, rather than actually believing their innate gender identity to be on a spectrum between male and female, eventually settle into the "gender doesn't exist" lifestyle because they feel they'll never be able to pass sufficiently well for their own tastes (which, accepting that in-between is the real meaning of "conforming to [others'] ideals" or points of view, as in those who will not fully accept them as female etc.). I personally know people who have told me they will not transition for that very reason, and they don't want a half-measure. One way or another, a lot of us thirst for the therapeutic effects of not having the gender with which we were improperly designated at birth taint our interactions with others for the rest of our lives, thank you very much.

The word trans has a broad and expansive definition these days, but we should be cautious to look carefully at what we encounter, and remember that it was decades of research at the most prestigious institutions which led to full social and surgical transition being written into the medical literature as something that is real in human psychology and has value to individuals and society at large. Some of the far-left wing gender theories throw all definitions of gender out the window as meaningless; which, in a twisted irony, is basically using theories that have the same amount of scientific validation currently offered to Otherkin to erase the research-based precedents that made it possible for their own progressive identities to emerge with any kind of descriptive substance in the first place.

Quote from: Lynne on October 10, 2018, 02:51:32 PM
I've met a lot of trans girls when I was more actively involved in the work of our local trans support group and I was surprised to see how many of them just didn't care about their voice at all. Very few of them had a voice that passed.
Some of them doesn't care about passing that much, some of them deluded themselves into thinking that they just pass fine in every situation because people rarely point out that they have been clocked.

This is my experience as well. A lot of people would pass so much better with a proper voice adjustment. Using your voice shouldn't be something "hard" that you have to practice and takes effort to use. It's supposed to be natural, or it'll feel fake and that will wear you down over the years.

I think a couple posters who replied to me have been conned into thinking that how others perceive your gender expression is insignificant - maybe those posters just lack any ability to read how someone is responding to their own voice or presentation (or maybe they're extremely anti-social and don't care) but the nature of wanting to transition is rooted in the desire to live up to your own ideals for yourself and your own gender expression - by its own nature, that has nothing to do with what others want for you, it has to do with what you want for yourself; I, too, am aghast of the idea of someone shortchanging herself over one of the most vital and newly-polished aspects of that self-actualization process (VFS) that has made an enormous difference in my quality of life.

Quote from: Lynne on October 10, 2018, 02:51:32 PM
Quite a few of them worked in the same area as me, some of them even in the same building, so I had the chance to observe how others perceive them. They were always clocked because of their voices if they passed otherwise.
People usually don't tell them that they know, but they still gossip about them behind their backs.

I want to be perceived as a woman and my inadequate voice plays a large part in not going full-time for years. Most of those girls thought I would transition quickly because on a good day I can pass without HRT and makeup but that's really not enough for me.

Edit: And even if I take out passing from the equation, I just don't like my voice the way it is, it doesn't allow me to express myself the way I want to.

Yep. Your point of view sounds exactly like what I've observed as well. Being able to express yourself fully and authentically is what life is all about. It's why we risk everything for the chance to make the outside match the inside.

For a couple years I worked for the state doing HIV prevention targeting transgender people. I sat in on my share of so called support groups...

I have not been to a support group in many years because what I saw was people supporting each others dysfunction. One of my favorites was someone that would come to the support groups claiming to be transsexual and in transition but looked like any guy off the street. Someone told me that person been going to the group claiming to be in transition for 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! 10 YEARS and nothing that anyone could detect to show for it, I kid you not......

The day I left that job was the last day I ever spent any physical time in the trans community. I occasionally come to these web sites but outside of that I just live in the normal world like any other girl NEVER talking about my past with people. Crap I got married recently to a great guy...... I did everything it took to be a woman instead of a transgender person. I am very happy with the results..

Mind you it took a crap load of blood sweat and tears and sacrifice to be the person I am today. NO baby steps or half ass attempts. I have not talked to my parents or sister in years, I moved away from where I transitioned and started a new life with no baggage. I did not make excuses, I just did what it took to be the person I knew I was.

When people here talk about getting a female voice I smile often because quite frankly one of the best ways to get a reasonable voice is to actually go full time IN THE REAL WORLD not around other trans people. When ->-bleeped-<- is real a person will try a hell of a lot harder. Add to that vocal surgery and many people can have a dam nice voice.

Of course you can see all the excuses under the sun for not doing this or that, i have to remind myself the world is filled with those that do and those that dont...............

Wow - there are some really great ideas and stories being discussed here.

I think a hard, honest discussion like this is very helpful for people to ponder and come to terms with.

Thank you,

Sonja.

It is so refreshing to hear the clear, strong and clarion voices of strong women speaking freely and forthrightly about their experiences in the real world and presenting a clear contrast to the stifling restrictions of life according to the trans narrative.
We should all be free to live our lives according to what we as individuals see as what is best  for us as the free thinking individuals that we are and not feel a need to conform to what the "conventional thinking" tells us is the best way to go.

Quote from: Complete on October 14, 2018, 09:50:39 PM
It is so refreshing to hear the clear, strong and clarion voices of strong women speaking freely and forthrightly about their experiences in the real world and presenting a clear contrast to the stifling restrictions of life according to the trans narrative.
We should all be free to live our lives according to what we as individuals see as what is best  for us as the free thinking individuals that we are and not feel a need to conform to what the "conventional thinking" tells us is the best way to go.

Well said!

Quote from: Katie on October 13, 2018, 08:01:23 PM

When people here talk about getting a female voice I smile often because quite frankly one of the best ways to get a reasonable voice is to actually go full time IN THE REAL WORLD not around other trans people. When ->-bleeped-<- is real a person will try a hell of a lot harder. Add to that vocal surgery and many people can have a dam nice voice.

Of course you can see all the excuses under the sun for not doing this or that, i have to remind myself the world is filled with those that do and those that dont...............

Yes.  There are a lot of transitioners who will occasionally try to practice their female voice, but who constantly drop back to their male voice, in private, in support groups, with family, etc.  "It's hard...  I don't need it with friends/family..."

Here's the thing.  We are creatures of habit, with lots of things that have 'default' states.  We have our default behaviors, default mannerisms, and these include our default voices.  The only way to change our default states to something new is to practice, practice, practice what we want the default to be, and never, ever go back to the old settings we are trying to get rid of.

If we don't change the default state for many of our mannerisms, including voice, then when we are not concentrating on mannerisms or voice, we are very likely to slip back to the old default, a more masculine walk or stance, that male voice, even behavior like 'mansplaining'.  In a culture with a strong gender binary, this quickly 'outs' us when we slip, and that can have unpleasant consequences.

(Yes, I am familiar with arguments that we should just 'be ourselves'  to somehow become more accepted.  Perhaps, in a few generations, that might even have an effect on the broader culture.  I need to live my life now, though.)

I practice my voice and movement 24/7, and have been doing this for the entire time I have been full-time.  I am fortunate in having a voice range that could be exercised to include a normal female range, and in having had access to a speech therapist for  several months to coach me.  Currently, I use a set of apps on my phone to monitor the daily pitch exercises I still run through, as well as checking the speaking range I use when reciting from texts, as when i teach a course or am doing a presentation.

I've been at this constantly for two years, and feel that my feminine voice is finally becoming my default voice, and I am able to speak and lecture in the proper pitch range.  Over this time, my prosody has improved from constantly conversing with friends i've made the past two years, women who learned prosody the old fashioned way, being raised with it.  I've picked up quite a bit of this from immersion in the broader culture of women.

I personally consider this the real purpose of my Real Life Experience, the immersion in the feminine side of my culture and my learning to just be one of the girls, in manner, speech, and other aspects of my gender presentation.  I'm still me, of course, but have been working very hard to fit in and be seen as just another woman.  I want to avoid accidentally outing myself by inappropriate default behaviors showing when I am distracted.

Two years on, and I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  It takes time to replace decades of old behaviors, old patterns of speech and vocalization.   I'm getting there.

(This is turning into another whole article.  I'm cutting myself off here before I need to start chapters...)

Quote from: sarahc on September 29, 2018, 10:07:44 AM
I have seen many women here wait several years before pursuing VFS after years of voice therapy and training. But given that voice is a critical part of passing and a meaningful source of dysphoria, I wonder why women generally don't pursue it earlier in transition, especially if using a female voice causes strain.

I understand that VFS has meaningful risks, isn't always effective, creates significant personal disruption and is not a substitute for therapy. Hence, it's been thought of as an operation to pursue only as a last resort. Still, if you're going to do it, it seems like something to do earlier in transition rather than later.

What are people's thoughts on this?

I got VFS at my 10 month mark after just a few months therapy by Dr. Haben in Rochester NY and it was the best thing ever. I told my voice therapist "I feel there's something in my head holding me back that VFS will fix but I can't explain why I feel this way." This feeling went away after the surgery and two months post-op things are already great.   I'm only 1 year HRT at this stage so new to so much, however if ya want to see photos let me know and I can send you a PM with it.

Specifics:
HRT: 12/16/2017 (5 days before turning 25)
VFS: 10/24/2018
Procedure: Triple
Adams apple shave done 4/20/2016 by Haben so knew he'd do a good job.

I had voice surgery with Dr. Spiegel in Boston at the beginning of October 2018. It was my first gender affirming surgery, before all others. I had my lower surgery several weeks later.  I mention this because I asked the anesthesiologist for my lower surgery (gcs) if that would be an issue with me getting VFS first. The anesthesiologist said that it wouldn't be an issue, and that they have devices that do not go beyond the vocal cords if I had any issues with the regional and had to be put under with a general that requires intubation. I would always recommend that you keep everyone informed before hand so they can have the equipment available to help you in case any complications arise. That said, i had severe vocal dysphoria and the VFS changed my life for the better. Best.

Quote from: HollyKay on January 09, 2019, 01:05:38 AM
I had voice surgery with Dr. Spiegel in Boston at the beginning of October 2018. It was my first gender affirming surgery, before all others. I had my lower surgery several weeks later.  I mention this because I asked the anesthesiologist for my lower surgery (gcs) if that would be an issue with me getting VFS first. The anesthesiologist said that it wouldn't be an issue, and that they have devices that do not go beyond the vocal cords if I had any issues with the regional and had to be put under with a general that requires intubation. I would always recommend that you keep everyone informed before hand so they can have the equipment available to help you in case any complications arise. That said, i had severe vocal dysphoria and the VFS changed my life for the better. Best.

Thank you for your reply. That's a very affirming story. I'm leaning now towards making VFS my first surgery. I know the risks but it just seems like a good outcome can be truly life changing and really helps one achieve a successful transitioned life.

Everyone's transition is different. My voice and adam's apple give me more dysphoria than my genitals. For a lot of people it's the other way around. Voice training would be fine I'm sure but just knowing my voice can go into a male range gives me intense dysphoria. We all have our triggers and one's justification for having VFS may not apply to others as we are all unique.

Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on January 09, 2019, 05:52:43 PM
Everyone's transition is different. My voice and adam's apple give me more dysphoria than my genitals. For a lot of people it's the other way around. Voice training would be fine I'm sure but just knowing my voice can go into a male range gives me intense dysphoria. We all have our triggers and one's justification for having VFS may not apply to others as we are all unique.

^---- that's exactly how I feel too - voice is really important to me, but I know for others it's not as important as other steps.

Quote from: sarahc on January 09, 2019, 06:22:00 AM
Thank you for your reply. That's a very affirming story. I'm leaning now towards making VFS my first surgery. I know the risks but it just seems like a good outcome can be truly life changing and really helps one achieve a successful transitioned life.

I hope that my experience helps you with your decision. I should also mention that I did eight sessions with a registered speech pathologist before hand. That helped me with my speech patterns such as: pitch, inflection, resonance, breathing, articulation, voice quality, duration of words, and also non-verbal communication.

One thing that was mentioned in the training is that they acknowledged any person holding their speaking pitch, causes strain on the vocal cords which can lead to damage over the long term. They mentioned this even when they were teaching me how to raise my pitch by straining my voice for prolonged periods of time.

Quoting them: "Usually, trans women consider vocal surgery when they feel dissatisfied with voice therapy results, or they want a more authentic sounding female voice. However, it is important to note that vocal surgery alone may not produce a voice that sounds completely feminine, and voice therapy may still be needed."

How I interpreted this is with the guitar example that Dr. Spiegel uses. He says in his YouTube video that even though he can give you the instrument, you still need to learn how to play it.  Now, for me, I would further that analogy by saying that you were provided a bass guitar and have learned how to play it. It is different to then play an acoustic guitar, because they are meant to produce their own unique sounds. 

Whether you choose:

a. Speech therapy only
b. Speech therapy and VFS after
c. VFS and then Speech therapy
d. VFS only

Either path you take has advantages and disadvantages. Go with your intuition and you will ultimately be happy. All are options available to you.

@HollyKay

I'm definitely doing voice therapy, then (probably) VFS. In fact, I have my voice therapy session in a couple of weeks. VFS would probably be sometime in the fall.

Sarah.

That sounds like a good plan.  Let me know if you have any questions about the surgery, healing, or anything  else.  Best.   :)

I started voice therapy 2 long years ago. It has helped a lot, just not enough. I decided to delay VFS until the last surgery, I just did not want a tube down the throat anytime soon after VFS. I do on the plus side of OK in person and the 85% club of being called sir on the phone, if I could have gotten that down to 50% or even 60% of the time would be avoiding VFS. I have knife time set for March 11th 2019 in Portland OR with Dr. Thomas. I weighed the risks, rewards, costs and time. Sure going over seas might have been a bit less, however, time is money, money is time for me. I talked to a few local women who have had him preform VFS, the results were mostly good, however, you get out of it what you put into it! Practice is the key for a good outcome.
Take Care
-Margaret