Susan's Place Transgender Resources

In the 'masculine smell' thread on the FTM board Dennis mentioned that his neighbor's dog, who is afraid of men, became shy of him after he started T. I've heard numerous stories to this effect. Lots of dogs are afraid of men, and the animal egg-spurts will say it's because men behave more aggressively and have deeper growlier voices, but this shy-of-men-shy-of-FTM-on-T thing starts before the T produces a voice change, and the FTM behaves just the same. And a man who is quiet and doesn't speak still gets the 'scared of men' response from dogs like that. It is clear that dogs, at least, can smell your hormone-balance and that they classify people by sex this way.

I've never heard of anybody's own pets responding differently to them after they started HRT, though. I suppose that your personal smell isn't changed enough that they think you're all that different.

Any stories about animal aquaintances and how they responded to your HRT?

I'm particularly curious about parrots. I can't figure out how birds know what sex a person is, as most birds (new world vultures and tubenoses -- that'd be albatrosses, petrels and shearwaters -- are a notable exception) don't have much of a sense of smell. But most pet parrots have a noticable preference for people of one sex or another, usually the apposite sex to that of the parrot. Anybody notice a parrot's additude towards you change after starting HRT? At what point in the process did the bird's reactions to you change?

Hi Doc,

My best friend has a parrot, a green Amazonian parrot (with blue , red flashings on its wings), who is Male and called Captain (Cappy for short).

It absolutely HATES men and squaks, flaps and tries to bite them as soon as they take a step towards him.This includes my friends husband, who even though he feeds him, is subject to the same behaviour. He has attacked many male vets and they have to handle him with large leather gloves.

In contrast any women can pick him up and he allows you to stroke him, play with him, pull out disloged feathers and he exhibits the same behaviour towards you by grooming you when he sits on your shoulder with your hair.

The first time I went to my friends house (who now knows my past, but not at that time), she told me about "Captain"  and my initial thoughts where " Oh my God.. a Transsexual detecting parrot", but he has always behaved the same way to me, as he does any women.

He sure is one strange little bird!

Rebecca

Hehe. Cool. I wonder how he'd be towards transsexual women who don't pass well, or are no-op-no-H. Pity (at least for the purposes of my thread) that you didn't know him before and during transition so you could actually mark when your sex changed in his birdy head.

Might it have somthing to do with one's demeanor too?
You know, the 'vibe' you are putting out?
The hormone thing is interesting though..

hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

Quote from: Sarah on January 03, 2008, 10:43:23 PM
Might it have somthing to do with one's demeanor too?
You know, the 'vibe' you are putting out?
The hormone thing is interesting though..

Well, I really doubt that the ftms who are inoffensive to man-shy dogs before HRT and scary to those dogs after aren't changing their demeanor.

I do wonder wether it's not just a 'vibe' with birds, though. The only parrot I know well is an unusual bird in that he pretty much likes everybody he's used to and flirts with them all.

When artifically inseminating falcons, you get the (tame) male falcon to fall in love with your head and wear this rubber hat that collects the semen when the bird humps your head. I have heard that some people are somehow attractive to male falcons and others aren't. If falcons think your head is sexy, you are a 'hawk hussy' and almost all male falcons will agree that yours is a head they'd like to have sex with. But some hawk hussies are men and some are women. This'd make me conclude that it's a 'vibe.' But I dunno, raptors are really genderqueer animals, by human standards -- female hawks are bigger and mostly behave in more 'masculine' ways than male hawks. (I don't believe in such things, but I can imagine all transsexual people as having been hawks in past lives. When they filled out the paper-work for a new life, they checked their former sex as a raptor 'cause they really liked it, and then when born as a human go, 'Oh, crap, it's backwards!') Other kinds of birds seem to sex people more consistantly than do hawks. Or maybe not, it's not like I actually know a lot of trans-people, much less a lot who transitioned around birds of any sort.

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

Greetings,

Something to consider too...the changes in your personal smell do not happen over night...rather it takes a while of being on HRT before your body smell changes...but it is gradual...your own pets would be accustomed to it while other's would not...just my thought on the topic....

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

Quote from: Tink on January 04, 2008, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

lmao :laugh:  thought baby was a boy.  it aint?

Quote from: Chris on January 05, 2008, 12:31:17 AM

Quote from: Tink on January 04, 2008, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

lmao :laugh:  thought baby was a boy.  it aint?

I don't think "it" is gonna win you any points either Chris :P

Dennis

I have no idea about birds.  But I do know that I've always been known as one to whom animals seem to flock.  I've never had a deep voice, never been very large, and never gotten upset in their presence.  Your own demeanor will disarm or alert most animals.  For instance, when a dog looks scared or threatening, try immediately squatting, staring them in the face, and softly calling their name.  It will be interesting to see if HRT makes any difference, but I hope to find out soon.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on January 06, 2008, 09:06:04 PM

Quote from: Doc on January 04, 2008, 09:05:38 PM

When artifically inseminating falcons, you get the (tame) male falcon to fall in love with your head and wear this rubber hat that collects the semen when the bird humps your head. .

thanks for that mental image. 

I would like to thank you for that image as well, I laughed a lot.

Hi Kristi
OK then it is not only me that have experienced what you have said about animals, works good with  kids as well. They can feel our energy and I have been able to do the animal whispering  thing since I was a little kid. As for strangers that use to come to our house when I was  little I would end up hugging their leg or if it was a lady I would cuddle up to them just sucking up on their energy.

But there were times where you would find me hiding behind my mom just peeking around her to look at the man that didn't feel right. it felt something like the picture of the snake twisting around  itself. That picture gives me the willies. 

Hey Pica Pica that is one image I wouldn't want to see either. But then I may never see such an image because I'm a night hawk. Throws hat with long plume into the room then steps out causiously to retrieve her hat.

Cindy

Quote from: Dennis on January 06, 2008, 05:45:57 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 05, 2008, 12:31:17 AM

Quote from: Tink on January 04, 2008, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

lmao :laugh:  thought baby was a boy.  it aint?

I don't think "it" is gonna win you any points either Chris :P

Dennis

damn.  next time dont say nothin. dont quote me so I can modidy my post :laugh:  Idont know if baby is a boy or a girl.  "it" is ok.  right?  it's a cat dude!  it aint  a person :laugh: now I'm in deep sh#t :laugh:

Quote from: Chris on January 07, 2008, 12:37:56 AM
[damn.  next time dont say nothin. dont quote me so I can modidy my post :laugh:  Idont know if baby is a boy or a girl.  "it" is ok.  right?  it's a cat dude!  it aint  a person :laugh: now I'm in deep sh#t :laugh:

It makes a difference to the cat! Dont try and mate HER with another FEMALE

Rebecca

Quote from: Kristi on January 06, 2008, 08:54:00 PM
For instance, when a dog looks scared or threatening, try immediately squatting, staring them in the face, and softly calling their name. 

Eh, don't squat. This is a good way to get bitten in the face. Staring at them is hit or miss, some will relax faster if you look away. Offer the dog your hand to sniff, and let it come to you to do it. Dogs are more comfortable if you move in such a fashion that your hand, when reaching for them, comes from the side or below, reaching down to pat a dog on the top of the head will alarm an animal that doesn't trust you to pet it yet.

my dog's like that, hates people coming at it from above.
He hates moustaches and beards, mainly likes women over men, though he prefers me to my sister. I think that's because my sister keeps shoving her face in his, where I'm sort of relaxed and let him come over. He likes to shove his face into my armpit when I'm trying to lace me boots up.

Miss the damn thing, I could do with his silly face around here sometimes.

Ya I still miss my long grey furred Tabby I named Garfield. I got him on a rescue mission one night when I went in this guys backyard and stole the cat. It was starving to death and it's fur was all scraggly looking. I had that cat for almost six years and it was an indoor cat, I never let him out, I kept it indoors hoping he wouldn't catch other feline diseases. I moved to this new place and the dumb %^$#@ moving people let it get out. It didn't come back until two weeks later and by the fall of the following year he took sick. He was diagnosed as having feline aids and had to get him put away. I really don't want anymore pets, it hurts to much loosing them. Every once in a while I see a shadow move through a doorway going between my legs.  ;) Maybe?

Cindy   

Quote from: Doc on January 07, 2008, 03:47:40 PM

Quote from: Kristi on January 06, 2008, 08:54:00 PM
For instance, when a dog looks scared or threatening, try immediately squatting, staring them in the face, and softly calling their name.

Eh, don't squat. This is a good way to get bitten in the face.

Whatever you say.  It always works for me.  Being shorter means being less intimidating.  But if animals sense fear or mistrust on you, and they can if it is there, then do not squat down.  And I agree about offering your hand to be sniffed.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)

 I agree with you Kristi, If you squat down and just extend your hands out and sit very still, if its a dog they usually approach you slowly and then smell your hands then walk around you and if they are waging their tail you are ok with them. I use to do that when I was a kid, do it on bets with other kids. and then looked at me kind of odd afterwards. Ya I was the weird  one or the runt back in those days.

Cindy

Quote from: Chris on January 05, 2008, 12:31:17 AM

Quote from: Tink on January 04, 2008, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

lmao :laugh:  thought baby was a boy.  it aint?

Yes, Baby is a boy, but I thought Daisy was the one who hissed at you.  Daisy is a she, not a he, Mr. smarty pants!  :P  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

a cat called baby?

No wonder the gender of said cat was hard to ascertain. 

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 07, 2008, 07:27:50 PM
a cat called baby?

No wonder the gender of said cat was hard to ascertain. 

Actually his name is Bebe which is the Spanish word for Baby :)

tink :icon_chick:

Do we give her that? (asks audience)

Quote from: Kristi on January 07, 2008, 04:06:13 PM

Quote from: Doc on January 07, 2008, 03:47:40 PM
Eh, don't squat. This is a good way to get bitten in the face.

Whatever you say.  It always works for me.  Being shorter means being less intimidating.  But if animals sense fear or mistrust on you, and they can if it is there, then do not squat down.  And I agree about offering your hand to be sniffed.

Sure, it works. :) It's just not safe if the dog is hurt or so fearful its at the end of its rope, or is stuck with you in an enclosed space, or is genuinely aggressive. Many people are very very good with dogs and know exactly when this is safe and instinctively will not crouch when it's not, but somebody might do this with a fearful shy dog in, say, a small kennel-run, and get hurt.

Quote from: Tink on January 07, 2008, 07:25:48 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 05, 2008, 12:31:17 AM

Quote from: Tink on January 04, 2008, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 04, 2008, 01:26:48 AM
hehehe one my gf's cat dont like me.  he comes near me, smells me & hisses.  :laugh: my gf says the cat doesnt like men.  only girls.  dunno.  I never thought about it till the cat started hissin at me :laugh:

She doesn't like you because you keep on calling her a "he".  Perhaps if you pet her, things could change ;)  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

lmao :laugh:  thought baby was a boy.  it aint?

Yes, Baby is a boy, but I thought Daisy was the one who hissed at you.  Daisy is a she, not a he, Mr. smarty pants!  :P  ;D

tink :icon_chick:

:laugh: oops busted! still dunno their names :laugh:  you aint mad, right? ;)

I know this is a late posting but I am a dog trainer and I want to say right up front. If a dog is afraid of you by all means make yourself smaller and less threatening but under no circumstance should you stare a dog in the face at there level unless you want a bite. Most dogs see direct eye contact as a threat and will respond in kind. Instead talk with the owner and ignore the dog until they approach you and seek attention, you can give attention at first by letting them smell your open hand approaching from below. Ignore any and all barking, growling and other poor behavior.

It terms of behavior, I transitioned around many dogs, horses and cats and their response has been interesting. I am less likely to be outright challenged and more likely to be approached with care. Cats mostly don't want anything to do with me anymore. Horses and dogs tend to be easier to handle and still love me. I dislike birds and they hate me so not much to report on that front. Dogs that are fearful are more likely to submit to me then argue now. I think it is a combination of smells, sounds, looks and behavior that is effected by hormones. I would also argue against it being solely smell because male dogs still behave differently with an altered and unaltered male and females dogs but in the grand scheme the changes are fairly minor and typical male versus female issues don't change much.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Well amazingly I have never had any problems with animals, since all the way back when I was a kid. But I also will not take chances with an animal that is showing signs of hostility. Just back off and leave them some room. When I was a kid there was not much I was afraid and to just stand there with my hands turned out they usually only just walked around me and sniff, like I said before. If their tail begins to wag after the first pass, your OK in their books. As for birds, I have had some success in communicating with them and have them land on me. Especially the ravens, they in particular appear to be attracted to me. I am not a veterinarian or any other kind of animal handler, I am empathic and that is it, no more no less.

Cindy