Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Like I really hate passing sometimes "sound self absorbed right". Esspecially in this political climate."your probably saying wtf by this point" Were I constantly get into heated debate's."huh"

People both in public and online have both question my opinion of men aka trans women in women restroom without realizing I am trans. Quite litterly how would you feel if a man or thing follows you in the restroom. An then I have to go through the whole explantation I am trans. Then half of people make excuses saying I am different cause I pass an in there words beautiful. The other half will then try to argue I am ether lieing or fakeing being a women.

Yes I am privilege and should never complain about it. I just hate the feeling of being treated better than other trans girl cause I pass. Basically I hate being able to pass cause of the privilege so many people will give you just because you become acceptable once you look a certain way. Why people just accepted all in the same manner. Why does beauty and passing earn respect.

No tg female who passes would ever regret being one of the lucky ones. The only negatives you will receive are from those that dont or barely pass. Enjoy your good luck but remember as you get older  passing is not only the looks but behavior, manners and speech.

Yeah.. I sort of know what you mean. But what's the alternative really? You're fairly young- trust me, if you can make your life easier now, do it! And I'm only 28 lol but that's the truth!
With that said, there's still always ways to be seen as trans or at least queer if you change up your look. I know, I find that pretty "basic" thinking, but in this material and superficial world we live in... It's true.

Am I the only one who feels like people crowd around more when presenting as female?! Even when I talk or give it away (that I'm trans) somehow, men tend to still gender me female... It's really amazing how much more people are accepting. I'm shocked! Today one guy told a friend "you almost hit a lady" as I walked past them lol I felt kinda bad because I was rushing and it wasn't his fault... I was laughing a bit at that [emoji23]

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Quote from: warlockmaker on November 07, 2018, 07:51:20 PM
No tg female who passes would ever regret being one of the lucky ones. The only negatives you will receive are from those that dont or barely pass. Enjoy your good luck but remember as you get older  passing is not only the looks but behavior, manners and speech.

Will then I am special. An I don't care about passing I would be one the lazyist people about doing it. I just do no makeup no effort no cares. *Shrugs* not trying seems be what gets me what I want and we're I want to be

Quote from: Allison S on November 07, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Yeah.. I sort of know what you mean. But what's the alternative really? You're fairly young- trust me, if you can make your life easier now, do it! And I'm only 28 lol but that's the truth!
With that said, there's still always ways to be seen as trans or at least queer if you change up your look. I know, I find that pretty "basic" thinking, but in this material and superficial world we live in... It's true.

Am I the only one who feels like people crowd around more when presenting as female?! Even when I talk or give it away (that I'm trans) somehow, men tend to still gender me female... It's really amazing how much more people are accepting. I'm shocked! Today one guy told a friend "you almost hit a lady" as I walked past them lol I felt kinda bad because I was rushing and it wasn't his fault... I was laughing a bit at that [emoji23]

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What I hate most when crreps start flirting so I tell them I am trans and they think that makes you hotter to them. Some people just are really creepy.

I am not certain that I really understand the dynamics behind the title of this thread.
As a transgender it is intrinsic in our final goals to be able to pass reliably.

As a full-time trans-woman living where I do as a self-employed small business woman, it is certainly most assuring to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my clients, friends and my suitors consider and think of me as a female....  and that includes being the object of flirting and come-on/pick up lines and also the chivalrous efforts of the males and others to help carry heavy items, hold doors open for me, etc, etc. 

I personally am not seeing a lot of negatives with all of that... I am enjoying living as a female with all of the positives and negatives.   This is the life that I made the immense effort to achieve.

Danielle

Rosyfox. All women try to look good and I notice you have long hair akin to a female, thats trying in my view. If you pass you dont need to try its natural.

Me growing out hair is cause I like long hair lmao. I don't believe in passing even if I do. When first started transitioning I did. But then I realized I don't care about it. I don't even believe in society gender or spectrum. I just believe in being myself in any fashion or way I want. I realized I can be both male and female at the whim of myself. I can pass ether way without effort. The only thing that makes me trans is a want for a sex changed. So no I don't try to be female. I only care about being myself.  :)

This is the flip side of trans issues having that much more visibility lately.

Passing gets a pass from some but is met with even more ire from others. Some see it as if you pass then you have "made enough effort" or something, these people are usually more open to the idea of transpeople in society provided they blend in - apparently they have difficulty accepting a non-passing trans person on some visceral level. Others who didn't know you were trans before because you passed 100% might dislike you because you "fooled" them.

There's some strange psychological process in people whereby they seem to believe they own what they've categorized with their eyes. If you can't easily be categorized you're an affront to some of them. Or if you've been successfully categorized and "vetted" in their eyes as passing sufficiently, then you're "ok". For some if they know you are trans it doesn't matter what you look like, you're the enemy. Depends on their views and ideology I guess, but you being there in front of them at all is taken as an entry into their personal lives when it's not.

It may have something to do with a phenomenon I've noticed in people honest enough to broach the topic with me, I don't know if it has a scientific term - but it's the habit of looking at other random people in everyday life and "sizing" them up, sexually. In order to do that they first identify if they are male or female. It's more common in men to do this, I think, but this might be where some of the disgust comes from. They're viewing others subconsciously as potential mate material, even if not actually looking for one; if someone doesn't match up right because they "confuse" them sexually, the result is usually a negative brain response. So if you pass, then that's a positive response subconsciously, but then if they learn you're trans you'll be subject to both the conscious and unconscious responses of their brain thereafter, and the ego-driven one will often override the other.   

Beauty and passing earns more respect for this reason I believe - it's hard-wired into people to want to identify a gender in another, and if that person is attractive and/or sexually attractive to them as well, that is hard-wired into them to behave far more positively towards. It's been studied and found that "conventionally attractive" people are more often able to use their looks to get what they want out of others. Advertising uses it relentlessly to fool us into buying things, and attractive people are all over the TV because it gets an overwhelmingly positive response from the audience, not the least of it being sexual attraction. If people look confusing to others that generally gets a negative response at least at first sight, as their brain struggles to categorize them.

Given that we've had drag queens and drag acts for a long time and the understanding is that we "know" what the person is under the look in one sense and then we approve of their ability to transform into the other gender and look attractive as that gender in another, I think it's just a biological response thing. Being trans gets more of a pass from the average person than being a non-passing trans person because human brains are fairly mechanical and subconscious in their approach to gender. 

The P word I hate so much. Its ok for a crossdresser to use it but if your TS WTF. Are you a woman or are you a man? Are you a man pretending to be a woman to PASS with the general world.


If your a woman then you be a woman no matter how you look and you OWN it dam it. I guess i hate the p word because one of the definitions of it says something like to put forth something that is not real and getting away with it.

I myself use presentation. How does someone present to the world...............

Actually passing is meaningless to me. At my work place, most people know who I am. I just pursue looking good or beauty, not passing. Some people treat me as a woman, others as a kind of man. But it doesn't matter as long as they regard me as a human companion. Nevertheless I use women's public restroom, just to avoid any fuss. When travelling with my family, I avoid entering the same public restroom at the same time with my wife and little daughter. As I cherish my family so much, HRT is not an option to me. My daughter is very interested in my fashion and beauty items, touching and inspecting nearly every new one delivered or purchased at stores.

barbie~~

Quote from: roseyfox on November 07, 2018, 07:27:47 PM
Why does beauty and passing earn respect.

A direct quote from my mom.  "Because Cindy, beauty is a woman's power."

Not that I want to agree with my mom.  However the society we live in today beauty is a strength of ours.

So I guess that's one reason why.

I agree with the comment about passing being a "cross dressing" phrase though.

If you are a woman you're a woman no matter how you look.  I see manly looking cis girls daily.  The are still girls to me.

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 07, 2018, 08:57:42 PM
I am not certain that I really understand the dynamics behind the title of this thread.
As a transgender it is intrinsic in our final goals to be able to pass reliably.

As a full-time trans-woman living where I do as a self-employed small business woman, it is certainly most assuring to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my clients, friends and my suitors consider and think of me as a female....  and that includes being the object of flirting and come-on/pick up lines and also the chivalrous efforts of the males and others to help carry heavy items, hold doors open for me, etc, etc. 

I personally am not seeing a lot of negatives with all of that... I am enjoying living as a female with all of the positives and negatives.   This is the life that I made the immense effort to achieve.

Danielle

Meh why is it a goal to pass. What even is passing complying to society standards of gender looks and clothing. Don't really care for all that. It was important when I first started but after 1-2 months after hrt. I completely lost the want to pass lol. It more if I do then cool. If I don't I won't care. I still post timelines and will ask people opinions at time of how they perceive me but it not because I am actively looking or trying just curiosity.

An ya those gender roles of male should do this. An female should do this is. Just is a crap ideal. More like be you don't give zero f what anyone else thinks. As long as your happy in your own skin. Ya do what you want to look pretty. But Don't let society force you into a box and manipulate you into thinking you have to like these things. Chivory is dead and unless a women show's it to a man they shouldn't expect it in return.

Also don't get wrapped up with what others think of you. Ya it is very difficult with society pressure. You just have to learn society opinion doesn't matter. If you know what you are then just be happy knowing that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. An if they do f them they aren't worth your time. Give respect to earn respect is my golden rule.

Quote from: Kylo on December 01, 2018, 05:09:43 PM
This is the flip side of trans issues having that much more visibility lately.

Passing gets a pass from some but is met with even more ire from others. Some see it as if you pass then you have "made enough effort" or something, these people are usually more open to the idea of transpeople in society provided they blend in - apparently they have difficulty accepting a non-passing trans person on some visceral level. Others who didn't know you were trans before because you passed 100% might dislike you because you "fooled" them.

There's some strange psychological process in people whereby they seem to believe they own what they've categorized with their eyes. If you can't easily be categorized you're an affront to some of them. Or if you've been successfully categorized and "vetted" in their eyes as passing sufficiently, then you're "ok". For some if they know you are trans it doesn't matter what you look like, you're the enemy. Depends on their views and ideology I guess, but you being there in front of them at all is taken as an entry into their personal lives when it's not.

It may have something to do with a phenomenon I've noticed in people honest enough to broach the topic with me, I don't know if it has a scientific term - but it's the habit of looking at other random people in everyday life and "sizing" them up, sexually. In order to do that they first identify if they are male or female. It's more common in men to do this, I think, but this might be where some of the disgust comes from. They're viewing others subconsciously as potential mate material, even if not actually looking for one; if someone doesn't match up right because they "confuse" them sexually, the result is usually a negative brain response. So if you pass, then that's a positive response subconsciously, but then if they learn you're trans you'll be subject to both the conscious and unconscious responses of their brain thereafter, and the ego-driven one will often override the other.   

Beauty and passing earns more respect for this reason I believe - it's hard-wired into people to want to identify a gender in another, and if that person is attractive and/or sexually attractive to them as well, that is hard-wired into them to behave far more positively towards. It's been studied and found that "conventionally attractive" people are more often able to use their looks to get what they want out of others. Advertising uses it relentlessly to fool us into buying things, and attractive people are all over the TV because it gets an overwhelmingly positive response from the audience, not the least of it being sexual attraction. If people look confusing to others that generally gets a negative response at least at first sight, as their brain struggles to categorize them.

Given that we've had drag queens and drag acts for a long time and the understanding is that we "know" what the person is under the look in one sense and then we approve of their ability to transform into the other gender and look attractive as that gender in another, I think it's just a biological response thing. Being trans gets more of a pass from the average person than being a non-passing trans person because human brains are fairly mechanical and subconscious in their approach to gender.

Thank you very much. Your one the few that understood what I was saying. It not saying I hate passing cause I am privilege. It more I hate society interpretation of passing being the only way to accept trans people. An yes the way I worded was controversial but it to make other cis and trans people think of what they consider acceptable.
Even trans people will argue other trans people don't pass enough therefore they shouldn't be treated the same as me.

Quote from: CindyLouFromCO on December 13, 2018, 01:05:37 PM
A direct quote from my mom.  "Because Cindy, beauty is a woman's power."

Not that I want to agree with my mom.  However the society we live in today beauty is a strength of ours.

So I guess that's one reason why.

I agree with the comment about passing being a "cross dressing" phrase though.

If you are a woman you're a woman no matter how you look.  I see manly looking cis girls daily.  The are still girls to me.

I agree beauty is both man and women power. Not the physical presence but the inner beauty. Flesh is meaningless in all ways. Individualism is beautiful and creates blossoming flowers. Passing is dust, An if it our society that desires it. Then maybe are society should be dust as well.

This thread bothers me!! I just feel sad thinking about pre hrt how different things were for me and how much social dysphoria sucked!! Sorry for my word choice there, but I really wish I could forget some of those times I felt so bad about my body and how people treated me... Then again it does give me a unique perspective on gender roles and perceptions...

I guess it's lingering severe dysphoria? If that makes sense... I guess I "pass" enough to make that a thing and will need go learn to embrace it... I mean I still live in fear too passing or not passing. Bottom line trans is trans and the pecking order is created by insecure people is how I see it!

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Passing = passing a cisgender test as to whether or not one's superficial appearance merits them accepting you as a "good transgender" who will blend in and not rock their boat.  It is essentially identifying with one's oppressor.

It's not like history isn't full of people who did this to please the ruling majority at the time.  Just read a little about the civil rights movement in America.

My advice. Just be you.

Real strange topic.

I pass visually. I don't just pass, I think going by reactions in life I think I'm actually good looking too.
I don't think I really pass with my voice, but based on my look, it gets me the rest of the ticks to be able to pass even face to face.
Visually in the streets, without anyone talking to me I pass, And I love it. I would not giveaway my ability to pass ever. It just means I can go about my days without weird stares. Ther will always be the few guys chancing their arms and staring, but I think that's a good sign all in all.
Sometimes scary though if they wistle or say things D:

Quote from: roseyfox on November 07, 2018, 09:49:10 PM
Me growing out hair is cause I like long hair lmao. I don't believe in passing even if I do. When first started transitioning I did. But then I realized I don't care about it. I don't even believe in society gender or spectrum. I just believe in being myself in any fashion or way I want. I realized I can be both male and female at the whim of myself. I can pass ether way without effort. The only thing that makes me trans is a want for a sex changed. So no I don't try to be female. I only care about being myself.  :)

Hi Roseyfox,

I get what you're saying and  I wish the world was like this.  If people want to judge people, they should judge them on their kindness to others.

Paige :)

I've always had female traits for compassion and wanting to help others. My wife didn't nurture our children. I did. I changed their diapers, I fed them, I woke up with them in the middle of the night, I played with them. I did homework with them. If I could have birthed them myself, it would have been so perfect. That's about as far as it went until I started my journey armed with information that I never knew existed. I have a pretty clear idea now of how and why I have always felt different. While my brain went one way, my body went another. At 18 I could dress like a beautiful woman and pretty much pass. I even had delusions that I could compete with Cheryl Tiegs and  Christina Ferrari as a model. If only we had Proactive instead of Clearasil. Today some 40 years later, passing is not such a big deal but respect is. I still think I am pretty good looking for my age and the effects of the HRT on my body is really pretty amazing to me. I wish fear was not a controlling factor in my life.  Ok I'm shallow. But as my male self I just didn't fit in, so they have actually been mis-gendering me forever and I have gotten used to it. But when they get it right, there is no better feeling. I do get peeved when my family addresses me as "Dudeman" which has been my nickname for thirty years. I am not Dudeman and really have never been Dudeman. Getting loaded and getting your wife pregnant does not make you Dudeman. We are still working on it but we are creatures of habit and sometime habits are hard to break. I just wish they could do it cold turkey like I did with my smoking.

Quote from: Allison S on December 30, 2018, 10:21:07 AM
This thread bothers me!! I just feel sad thinking about pre hrt how different things were for me and how much social dysphoria sucked!! Sorry for my word choice there, but I really wish I could forget some of those times I felt so bad about my body and how people treated me... Then again it does give me a unique perspective on gender roles and perceptions...

I guess it's lingering severe dysphoria? If that makes sense... I guess I "pass" enough to make that a thing and will need go learn to embrace it... I mean I still live in fear too passing or not passing. Bottom line trans is trans and the pecking order is created by insecure people is how I see it!

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The point of this post is to talk about what a useless concept of what passing is and how it init self should not be a thing. It socital concept to say these trans people are ok and these ones aren't. Just because we feel like this one is passable and that one isn't. I don't hate that according to society that I pass. I hate that society forces this concept of passing.

I pass. For those that don't, it can seem life brings severe misery and can drive those with the issue into dysphoric fits and send them down the rabbit hole of severe depression.

QuoteMeh why is it a goal to pass.

I'm sorry, but this is pure gloating and hurtful to our sisters that didn't win the "gene pool lottery". Just kinda rude and indifferent to others pain.

Quote from: Paige on December 30, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Hi Roseyfox,

I get what you're saying and  I wish the world was like this.  If people want to judge people, they should judge them on their kindness to others.

Paige :)

The world just needs to learn you can't force people into boxes for one. But then to expect  them to just match not just the shape of the box. But the color design and texture of it as well. An if you don't or can't you are just not deemed good enough and then you are force to face social hate and challenge. Just because your not up to society standards.

We get rid of the boxes. Then we won't even have to worry about the texture and color. Or how will we can mimic or just naturally look in comparison to the box. :)

Quote from: luckygirl on December 30, 2018, 12:50:17 PM
I pass. For those that don't, it can seem life brings severe misery and can drive those with the issue into dysphoric fits and send them down the rabbit hole of severe depression.
I'm sorry, but this is pure gloating and hurtful to our sisters that didn't win the "gene pool lottery". Just kinda rude and indifferent to others pain.

<Removed by moderator>
Society is brain washing trans and cis people to thinking the only point about being trans is passing. An it is not about that at all when you get to the core of the matter.It about living your true authentic self. If you feel the need to do everything in your power to pass then do you. But it shouldn't be a requirement for being respected as who you are. Nor the equality that you receive in job, houseing, and respect.

<Removed by moderator> 
People that can't or never will pass have to live in a world where there are no magic pony rides. People are total >-bleeped-<z to each other, whether cis or trans. It makes no difference. For those that don't and never will, they will never get to experience the world you enjoy. "It shouldn't matter if you pass or not" is a meme that just sounds tired to those that don't. Because simply put, you do and they never will. I'm sorry but it just sounds flippant. Kinda' like a rich person lamenting that poor people shouldn't be treated different than wealthy people and "doesn't it just sucks being rich sometimes". From the outside looking in, that sort of noblesse oblige just looks, well, indifferent......nuff' said.

Quote from: luckygirl on December 30, 2018, 01:27:08 PM
<Removed by moderator> 
People that can't or never will pass have to live in a world where there are no magic pony rides. People are total >-bleeped-<z to each other, whether cis or trans. It makes no difference. For those that don't and never will, they will never get to experience the world you enjoy. It shouldn't matter if you pass or not is a meme that just sounds tired to those that don't. Because you do and they never will. I'm sorry but it just sounds flippant. Kinda' like a rich person lamenting that poor people shouldn't be treated different than wealthy people and doesn't it just sucks being rich sometimes. From the outside looking in, that noblesse oblige just looks, well, indifferent......nuff' said.

You probably did not realize but I didn't pass my entire first year. An that was when I came to this conclusion on my own. But if I had posted it then just the same as now. People would say that I wouldn't understand the other side perspective at all. An It would be spun that I was just mad that I couldn't pass for what ever reason and to try harder. An it goes along with the other argument that since I am privilege I can not see the injustices therefore I shouldn't talk about it because there no possible way for me to understand.

Ya this world isn't a pony ride and or magic I am not asking for that. I am fighting for the full equality of my trans sister and brother no matter there walk or life. How they look or live there lives. Equality and respect should never be based on how good or bad you look in society eyes. Every phrase throughout history we see that this thinking Becomes the pass and is frowned upon by future generations. All it takes to start that phase is a conversation and a fight.

Who decides if we pass or not?  My friends feel that I am the almost perfect woman.  When I wear a wig and keep my mouth shut, this might be true, but I do not feel this way, because I am afraid that i might have to talk to somebody, and my male speech pattern (not my voice) will give me away.
When I go as a man, I can pass all the time, because I learned that role over many years, but only as long as I keep my mouth shut, because my rather high pitched voice might give me away.
But who is it really who decides that we pass?  My body has been pretty feminin all my life, but because I presented as a male, nobody rally questioned my masculinity.  Why should anybody question my femininity, if I dress this same body into female clothing and present as a woman?  It is just my voice that will not fit into either gender scheme, but who makes the decission what gender I am?

I think the only passing that is of any importance is the belief in one self, and If I feel like a woman, I am a woman, and if I feel like a man, I am a man!  My boobs are still growing, ad once they are bigger, am I more woman and less men, even though my mind has not changed a bit?
I am still fully gender fluid, what would passing mean for me?  I just would want to be accepted as the person who I am, and I feel this is way more important than any passing codes that were made up by society and that may change next week anyway!

Quote from: Dietlind on December 30, 2018, 03:42:01 PM
Who decides if we pass or not?  My friends feel that I am the almost perfect woman.  When I wear a wig and keep my mouth shut, this might be true, but I do not feel this way, because I am afraid that i might have to talk to somebody, and my male speech pattern (not my voice) will give me away.
When I go as a man, I can pass all the time, because I learned that role over many years, but only as long as I keep my mouth shut, because my rather high pitched voice might give me away.
But who is it really who decides that we pass?  My body has been pretty feminin all my life, but because I presented as a male, nobody rally questioned my masculinity.  Why should anybody question my femininity, if I dress this same body into female clothing and present as a woman?  It is just my voice that will not fit into either gender scheme, but who makes the decission what gender I am?

I think the only passing that is of any importance is the belief in one self, and If I feel like a woman, I am a woman, and if I feel like a man, I am a man!  My boobs are still growing, ad once they are bigger, am I more woman and less men, even though my mind has not changed a bit?
I am still fully gender fluid, what would passing mean for me?  I just would want to be accepted as the person who I am, and I feel this is way more important than any passing codes that were made up by society and that may change next week anyway!

Mhmm I completely agree. If your being your self you don't have to worry about society view of you passing. Cause you know who and what you are. Now society just as to learn that an realize passing isn't about appearance. It about realizeing your true self and being you.

When we subscribe to passing, we're reinforcing the binary. Great for some people, totally exclusionary for others.  There's no need to be a man or a woman to be authentic. So, yes, I hate "passing".

Roseyfox - I do see your point, and I agree that passing shouldn't matter, and that the world should be a place where everybody can and should be who they wish to be and be accepted fully in that place. (PS. I prefer the word blending than passing generally as passing itself almost has connotations of dishonesty).

However, I dont think that your thread title is saying that, and I completely get where luckygirl is coming from there. "You ever hate passing" is kinda equivalent to "don't you hate it when your diamond shoes are too tight" and "don't you hate it when your purse is too small for your 20s", especially since you've now clarified thats not quite what you're trying to say.

And I'm sure Roseyfox that passing is important to many people, including yourself, which is no doubt why you recently posted in the Do I Pass? thread.

Myself, I think passing is important for my self esteem. I pass most of the time. The only time I've hated passing is when you meet a guy or girl in a bar and you're like "sigh, I'm going to have to have this conversation if this goes anywhere". Other than that I've only seen positives in passing. That shouldn't be the case. But in the imperfect world in which we presently live passing is a benefit not a burden, or a position of neutrality. It shouldn't be, but in my view it is.

I have utmost respect for any woman who can hold their head high, say "I am trans, hear me roar" and be who they wish to be not caring what the world thinks of that. But thats not me

Em x

Quote from: emma-f on December 30, 2018, 04:53:07 PM
Roseyfox - I do see your point, and I agree that passing shouldn't matter, and that the world should be a place where everybody can and should be who they wish to be and be accepted fully in that place. (PS. I prefer the word blending than passing generally as passing itself almost has connotations of dishonesty).

However, I dont think that your thread title is saying that, and I completely get where luckygirl is coming from there. "You ever hate passing" is kinda equivalent to "don't you hate it when your diamond shoes are too tight" and "don't you hate it when your purse is too small for your 20s", especially since you've now clarified thats not quite what you're trying to say.

And I'm sure Roseyfox that passing is important to many people, including yourself, which is no doubt why you recently posted in the Do I Pass? thread.

Myself, I think passing is important for my self esteem. I pass most of the time. The only time I've hated passing is when you meet a guy or girl in a bar and you're like "sigh, I'm going to have to have this conversation if this goes anywhere". Other than that I've only seen positives in passing. That shouldn't be the case. But in the imperfect world in which we presently live passing is a benefit not a burden, or a position of neutrality. It shouldn't be, but in my view it is.

I have utmost respect for any woman who can hold their head high, say "I am trans, hear me roar" and be who they wish to be not caring what the world thinks of that. But thats not me

Em x

Like I said the point of the title and the way I worded things was on purpose. It is to make you think about it in a completely different way than how most people would. An as previously stated I have posted pics In the do I pass fourm not so much because I want to pass but because I am curious as to what others see. An no I really don't try to pass anymore lol. Maybe I should just post a photo here of me that shines the light at how I go out half the time.

Because I know who I am and passing doesn't matter as long as I know that. An other trans girl and guys should here that. You don't need to pass to be you. You don't need surgery you don't need hrt. You can be whoever you want without those things. An society needs to learn passing shouldn't be the goal of trans people. Accepting themselves is the goal of trans people.  An they should be respected  for that not there looks. Hrt and SRS are more of  a support to help you understand that.

(https://i.imgur.com/IEg097p.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/R4KLv9S.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/bYVItLE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hSTcl0a.jpg)

This is me still Rosa still a woman and i go out in the world like this. There is only a total of three things that makes a difference. An it not to pass it because I want to look as I do when I do. So here the threes things I Changed a nice close shave, hair down, and glasses are optional.

Well to be honest I don't like when a guy clocks me and tries to make me feel down on myself about it. Maybe my posts here veered away from "downside of passing", but I'm tired of passing (or not) in my case being a way to manipulate my feelings.

Yeah it's a privilege at first to pass until the person finds out and your safety is potentially compromised... I think the OP is more so sounding like I eat cavier on a cereal budget... That's what being trans kinda feels like to me.

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Quote from: roseyfox on December 30, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Like I said the point of the title and the way I worded things was on purpose. It is to make you think about it in a completely different way than how most people would. An as previously stated I have posted pics In the do I pass fourm not so much because I want to pass but because I am curious as to what others see. An no I really don't try to pass anymore lol. Maybe I should just post a photo here of me that shines the light at how I go out half the time.

Because I know who I am and passing doesn't matter as long as I know that. An other trans girl and guys should here that. You don't need to pass to be you. You don't need surgery you don't need hrt. You can be whoever you want without those things. An society needs to learn passing shouldn't be the goal of trans people. Accepting themselves is the goal of trans people.  An they should be respected  for that not there looks. Hrt and SRS are more of  a support to help you understand that.

As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

Quote from: emma-f on December 31, 2018, 02:39:49 AM
As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

Word

I never expected to pass , not bothered just being myself but only 1 year on HRT and until I speak find I mostly do pass/ get gendered correctly. That's just a bonus nothing more

Quote from: emma-f on December 31, 2018, 02:39:49 AM
As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

I believe you missunderstood the context of the argument. It not that I hate how I look but rather we are judge on are looks. I hate that those who past are treated better and given more equality than those who don't. Therefore the notion of passing has become a tool to punish those who don't and reward those that do. It a who argument about teaching Tran people to love themselves no matter how they look. An teaching society that passing isn't about looks. An how if someone does not pass then they are punished and are given less rights in the reality of it. An no I don't need reassurance lol. Because no matter how I look I know I am beautiful. The reason why is because I love myself an know who I am.

Posting those pics in transpassing which I don't do anymore. Was like I said not to be reassured but to see were I stood in the view of this society and how I be judged and understand why. But after much deliberation I have there is not a lot of good data or information that can be pulled because it is sadly biased in my favor. The amount of praise compared to critism at varying levels seem to be the same no matter what. Now when I went into the film industry that is we're I learned we're I stand in the reality of things. An got a equal amount of criticism with praise. So the only time you would say I would try to look a certain way is during a shot.

Lived in a hateful little state and town were everyone knows everyone all ready done that. That why I moved from Kentucky. Took one person pulling a gun on me yelling some homophobic crap and I was done at the point. But I am ready to go back now. I don't care about there hate and judgement an if one them feels the absolute need to try and shoot me like I was threaten when I first live there so be it. I won't live in fear anymore and if it kills me to live freely and how I want so be it. I am a firm believer in give me freedom or give me death. Because living in fear is just not for me  and shouldn't have to be a thing for anyone in this country.

Quote from: roseyfox on December 31, 2018, 03:06:48 PM
Lived in a hateful little state and town were everyone knows everyone all ready done that. That why I moved from Kentucky. Took one person pulling a gun on me yelling some homophobic crap and I was done at the point. But I am ready to go back now. I don't care about there hate and judgement an if one them feels the absolute need to try and shoot me like I was threaten when I first live there so be it. I won't live in fear anymore and if it kills me to live freely and how I want so be it. I am a firm believer in give me freedom or give me death. Because living in fear is just not for me  and shouldn't have to be a thing for anyone in this country.

Hi Roseyfox,

Please be careful.  I'm amazed by your bravery but please be smart about it.  Pick the fights that will actually help the community.  You being killed by some ignorant bigot will not be helpful.  It will be terribly sad.

Take care of yourself,
Paige :)

Okay, have read the whole thread. I don't want to address specific comments, but simply state my view.

I feel like what is called a woman in the society I happen to live in. I believe my ways of thinking are more closely aligned to the women I have met and known during in my life.

If to be recognised as part of that group, and to ease my social dysphoria it is easier for other people to recognise me as belonging if I look a certain way, I am happy to be that way.

There are individuals in the world who don't care about following societal conventions. If they are happy being different, great! But I am not one of them and am trying to blend in.

Am I selling out to the stereotypes of society? Maybe. But we all have to pick our own battles in life. My battle may not be the same as yours.

Don't judge me, and I won't judge you.

~Dee.

Don't complain about it, count your blessings and try to make this a better world for the rest who aren't as lucky.

No.  I would not hate passing.

I prefer to blend in, not to stand out.

If others do not mind to stand out or go counter to societal conventions, that is okay for them, it is just not me.

Chrissy

Quote from: roseyfox on December 31, 2018, 02:54:18 PM
I believe you missunderstood the context of the argument. It not that I hate how I look but rather we are judge on are looks. I hate that those who past are treated better and given more equality than those who don't. Therefore the notion of passing has become a tool to punish those who don't and reward those that do. It a who argument about teaching Tran people to love themselves no matter how they look. An teaching society that passing isn't about looks. An how if someone does not pass then they are punished and are given less rights in the reality of it. An no I don't need reassurance lol. Because no matter how I look I know I am beautiful. The reason why is because I love myself an know who I am.

Posting those pics in transpassing which I don't do anymore. Was like I said not to be reassured but to see were I stood in the view of this society and how I be judged and understand why. But after much deliberation I have there is not a lot of good data or information that can be pulled because it is sadly biased in my favor. The amount of praise compared to critism at varying levels seem to be the same no matter what. Now when I went into the film industry that is we're I learned we're I stand in the reality of things. An got a equal amount of criticism with praise. So the only time you would say I would try to look a certain way is during a shot.

I remember when I was in that phase wondering if I really was being viewed as a woman or if I was being pandered to. I took my photos and put them up on Match, didn't mention boo about being trans and paid for a month of service. The sheer number of messages I got from men was a huge confidence booster for me.

I can understand why it is depressing for people that are not as lucky and I agree that it is a double standard. However that is how people are. Many people cannot handle critical thinking so labels and categorization has to be implemented. I thank my stars though that I do pass if only to make my life easier. I can honestly say that I do not know if I would have been able to transition if I had thought I would still be viewed as a guy. In many ways those that go through this are far more courageous then I.

It's not perfect for people that pass though. Being intimate in my opinion requires being honest and many men freak out. It can be very painful at times.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 02, 2019, 07:53:42 AM
No.  I would not hate passing.

I prefer to blend in, not to stand out.

If others do not mind to stand out or go counter to societal conventions, that is okay for them, it is just not me.

Chrissy

I also want to blend in, but me being 6' tall, prevents blending into the crowd pretty much.  And I like to wear shoes with a little higher heels, and that does not help either with blending in.

I have only one thing to say.....This >-bleeped-< is hard.  It takes time and money to look good.   Lots of time......who knew.  (but I'm loving every minute ((hour)) of it

Quote from: Jenny1969 on January 02, 2019, 10:57:35 AM
I have only one thing to say.....This >-bleeped-< is hard.  It takes time and money to look good.   Lots of time......who knew.  (but I'm loving every minute ((hour)) of it

Before transitioning it was cheap and easy day to day because I didn't care how I looked and walls are cheap.

I'm glad that you are doing well. That is what it is all about, making us comfortable in our skin.

Coming from an Asian perspective, honestly passing is extremely detrimental not about just purely wanting to be a woman. It's about survival. And in many way impact your life that can possibly drive you to being suicidal. In fact this is so important, that some psychiatrist back here deem it as part of assessment before granting the green light, well basically no need to come to that stage, RLT will be the hurdle that is required to be crossed. More than often many Asian GID first thoughts are 'Can I pass well?'

Why is it important?
Firstly, employment.
Asia being always perceived to be conservative and irregardless of policies put in place by corporate management, it is always present. You cant control the mindset of the employees that works below the TOP. You will see doors being shut upon declaring yourself as a transgender or good opportunities for career growth being halted. That is reality here. No matter how hard you try to overcome with your able capabilities, once you are discovered or identified; all the effort are deem useless. Without a job, meaning no income, where does that lead you to? Guess the answer is pretty obvious.

Second, mental pressure.
Can one take the mental stress of general public taking stares and viewing you like an animal, sure you can stare back, but how many can you stare. It's yourself against an army of homophobic. The stares, the gossip and physical expression of disgust will drop your confidence to negative not to even say zero. Passing often eliminates this but it also creates another form of mental stress which is uncertainty and suspicion of those around you. Constantly your mind will be clocking out everyone who puts a stare to you for more than 10sec. Your mind will be flooding with queries and fears of 'Can he/she spot me?' This creates the insecurity that can never be eliminated, no matter how well you or your close one/friends THINK you can pass. Both can drive you into extreme depression at many times.

Third, relationship.
Can assure you it is extremely hard to even find a partner in Asia if you deem to be unpassable especially if your sexual inclination is F looking for M or M looking for F. You probably have betterc chances looking for same gender partners or Gays or Les relationship. But then again for a transgender women looking for a gay man, probably that isn't his cup of tea as well. So you are stuck as more than often most Asian man criteria in selection is still primarily based on looks.

Of course they are other factors such as living Everyday life activities eg, using the toilet, crossing customs at airports and etc.

Passing is extremely a must in my opinion if you intend to live a much more peaceful life. Passing also means living in stealth whilst most may disagree with what I had mentioned.

Nope passing is awesome! Living life just like I did pre transition but looking like the girl I've always been is such an amazing feeling. Getting to live an almost completely cis normative life where you never think about your gender is relieving. Getting to be "done" with transition and moving on with your life is incredible.


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Quote from: Brenda80 on January 18, 2019, 01:17:34 AM
Asia being always perceived to be conservative and irregardless of policies put in place by corporate management, it is always present. You cant control the mindset of the employees that works below the TOP. You will see doors being shut upon declaring yourself as a transgender or good opportunities for career growth being halted. That is reality here. No matter how hard you try to overcome with your able capabilities, once you are discovered or identified; all the effort are deem useless. Without a job, meaning no income, where does that lead you to? Guess the answer is pretty obvious.

I am not quite sure in which part of Asia you have resided, but that is a stereotype. Asian countries tend to be more accepting and open-minded than other regions of the world, because of the influence of Buddhism.

Those few people who have ever explicitly expressed their hate to me as m2f transgender were all Judo-Christians in the U.S. Here in S. Korea, I have never faced any discrimination. Of course, there were some fuss whenever I tried to get a new job. But my performance had to overcome it.

I teach at a national university while wearing miniskirt and high heels, while I have never been on HRT. I guess all hundreds of university staffs and faculty members know my name, which I am now no longer surprised at. I don't need my name cards. My Facebook activity certainly has contributed it, as many people say they got to know me through Facebook. I got a tenure position about 5 years ago, and sometimes lecture for elementary school students.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1780/30198272218_0d4c255ce6_b.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1820/44007279462_f5ab95b84d_b.jpg)

barbie~~

Quote from: jess2179 on January 18, 2019, 02:17:43 AM
Nope passing is awesome! Living life just like I did pre transition but looking like the girl I've always been is such an amazing feeling. Getting to live an almost completely cis normative life where you never think about your gender is relieving. Getting to be "done" with transition and moving on with your life is incredible.


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Can one ever be done with transition?  Can you ever fully forget that your life started out as a guy?  I don't know if i can!
And I had a way better start than many of you, and biologically never was a "real" guy!  But I never will be a "real" woman either, because I still have some male parts inside me (even if he outside of my body looks like that of a cis woman).  I don't really know if we ever can be done with transition?

Quote from: Dietlind on January 18, 2019, 10:08:25 AM
Can one ever be done with transition?  Can you ever fully forget that your life started out as a guy?  I don't know if i can!

I am essentially done with social transition, and medical transition once the docs deliver a few final tweaks in a couple of months.  (Anything past that is just the vanity of this older woman.)

I was never a 'guy'.  I was someone with that Assigned Male At Birth body, but that has been addressed.  No, I will never forget playing that male role for much of my life.  That is simply part of who I am, one of the rare individuals who has transcended gender.   My past gives me unique insights into my nature and my culture that others rarely are even aware of, and I treasure that.

I am.  I am myself.  That was the goal, and I have crossed it.

The drive and focus that I once used for my transition can now be redirected to other purposes, another gift from my unique path through life.  I am still deciding exactly how I want to apply it, but it will be for the betterment of life for those like us who are still in the shadows.

Because I never had, and still do have not any clear gender identity.  I never had any feeling for being a male or a female.  I was told I was a guy, it tried to be one.  Playing a guy did work for quite q while, and I think I was kind of good at it, but failed after a while. 
I know as a fact that I am more female than male with my biology (and of course, always were, genome analysis told me), and I am now trying to live the female roll of my body.  I don't even know if I am really transitioning, or am I just reclaiming the large part of my body that was suppressed all the time?  But that male part is still inside me, and I can do what I want, I cannot eliminate it.  That allows me to be gender fluid, and act male if I see an advantage in it.  However, my default gender is female, because that is what most of my body is.

Quote from: Dietlind on January 18, 2019, 10:08:25 AM
Can one ever be done with transition?  Can you ever fully forget that your life started out as a guy?  I don't know if i can!
And I had a way better start than many of you, and biologically never was a "real" guy!  But I never will be a "real" woman either, because I still have some male parts inside me (even if he outside of my body looks like that of a cis woman).  I don't really know if we ever can be done with transition?

Yeah I mean I could care less what my chromosomes are. After srs I will have mostly the right genitals I pass 100% and my voice is fine so I'll consider myself done with transition. Lots of girls hit a point where while they don't forget the past it just because part of their personal medical history that doesn't effect them in day to day life in any way what so ever other than the fact they can't get pregnant


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Quote from: jess2179 on January 18, 2019, 03:51:41 PM
Yeah I mean I could care less what my chromosomes are. After srs I will have mostly the right genitals I pass 100% and my voice is fine so I'll consider myself done with transition. Lots of girls hit a point where while they don't forget the past it just because part of their personal medical history that doesn't effect them in day to day life in any way what so ever other than the fact they can't get pregnant

I've never had anyone demand to inspect my chromosomes.  My genitals are my own business, and any stranger who asks has no chance of ever seeing them.  They've just doomed any chance of a relationship with that clumsy query.





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I will never hate or regret being passable. To me that idea is just crazy. Being totally passable has been my absolute goal from the start of my transition. Having achieved that goal why would I ever regret it? I don't understand the point of your post.