Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Is laser hair removal for the face cheaper than electrolysis?

What does it cost to laser your facial hair?  Then for any remaining facial hairs, what is the cost for the electrocutioner's work?   :)    What is the cost to do all of this facial hair removal by electrolysis?

What facial regions should be done before others, or does it really matter if you are going to do it all?

Is laser hair removal less painful than using electrolysis?

Chrissy

Costs will vary.  Laser sounds expensive per session, but they can do your entire face in 20 minutes, whereas electrolysis can do about 1 square inch in an hour.  (It gets faster as you make progress.)

On the other hand, laser has definite limitations.  It is not generally permanent.  It only works if you have dark hair and light skin.

I did a few laser sessions until I discovered, after starting HRT, that the estrogen made my skin light-sensitive.  It did zap the dark hairs, but they eventually came back.  I can't really compare pain levels, since I was less competent at pain management back then.  It hurt, but so does electrolysis.

I don't think it matters which areas you do first.  Maybe start with the ones that make you most dysphoric?  The upper lip is the most painful area, followed closely by the lower lip.

I think I paid $350 for three laser sessions.  I had a fourth single session, but I forget what it cost.  Electrolysis costs me $65 per hour, and that is after a discount because I am such a regular customer.  I am closing in on 100 hours of electrolysis, and thinking I might only need about 25 more sessions.

Kathy Lauren,

Thank you.   Your posts are often helpful to me.

It sounds as if it might be better to do any laser facial hair removal before starting estrogen if possible as estrogen may impact your skin in a way that hampers the effectiveness of laser hair removal.  I have also heard some women say here that estrogen lightens or even thins out their hair, although that might have been about their body hair rather than their facial hair.

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 18, 2018, 07:59:46 PM
Kathy Lauren,

Thank you.   Your posts are often helpful to me.

It sounds as if it might be better to do any laser facial hair removal before starting estrogen if possible as estrogen may impact your skin in a way that hampers the effectiveness of laser hair removal.  I have also heard some women say here that estrogen lightens or even thins out their hair, although that might have been about their body hair rather than their facial hair.

Chrissy

Laser-then-electrolysis is exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to do 4-5 sessions of laser and then transition to electrolysis. This is partly because I have a salt-and-pepper beard, so lots of gray as well as dark hairs. The laser sessions have been effective, because most of what I am shaving now is gray. My laser technician concurred with my strategy. So I'll finish up laser in January and transition to electrolysis then.

I am doing both laser and electrolysis (darn grey hairs). It usually takes anywhere from 200 - 400 hours of electrolysis to clear male facial hair. My electrologist (she is certified) is the least expensive one I have heard of, she is awesome and only charges $35 US an hour. She usually zaps about 500 hairs each hour. If you are lucky and find someone who charges a similar rate, your are talking about $7000 - $14000 for facial hair removal. Laser is faster, and probably less expensive, but it is usually advertised as 'permanent hair reduction'. Unless something has changed recently, electrolysis is the only approved method for 'permanent hair removal'.

Laser is only good for dark hair and light skin. If your hair is red, blonde, or grey, it will have little if any effect.

Upper lip is the most painful, for both laser and electrolysis. Work on the most visible areas of the face first -- if you hair covers your sideburns you could consider saving that area for last.

The pain from electrolysis varies quite a bit. Some areas are not too bad, while others (upper lip) feel like you are being jabbed with a hot needle. The pain is sharp but fleeting, usually 2 - 3 seconds for each hair. It feels similar to plucking a hair.

For me laser is significantly more painful, and it takes longer for the pain to fade. It feels more like being shot with a BB gun, and the pain from each laser pulse may take 15 - 20 seconds to fade. Even then you will feel like you have a mild sunburn for an hour or so. I have already had 12 facial laser session, and #13 is scheduled.

I seem to be getting used to the pain from electrolysis. Although when my estradiol dose was bumped up the pain increased, after a few months the pain dropped back down quite a bit. Electrolysis hurts, but laser hurts like hell. I am also having my legs done via laser, and there are some places that take my breath away -- much more painful than upper lip work.

Estrogen has reduced my body hair quite a bit, but the only effect on facial hair was a slight decrease in growth rate.

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on November 18, 2018, 08:57:27 PM
I am doing both laser and electrolysis (darn grey hairs). It usually takes anywhere from 200 - 400 hours of electrolysis to clear male facial hair. My electrologist (she is certified) is the least expensive one I have heard of, she is awesome and only charges $35 US an hour. She usually zaps about 500 hairs each hour. If you are lucky and find someone who charges a similar rate, your are talking about $7000 - $14000 for facial hair removal. Laser is faster, and probably less expensive, but it is usually advertised as 'permanent hair reduction'. Unless something has changed recently, electrolysis is the only approved method for 'permanent hair removal'.

Laser is only good for dark hair and light skin. If your hair is red, blonde, or grey, it will have little if any effect.

Upper lip is the most painful, for both laser and electrolysis. Work on the most visible areas of the face first -- if you hair covers your sideburns you could consider saving them for last.

The pain from electrolysis varies quite a bit. Some areas are not too bad, while others (upper lip) feel like you are being jabbed with a hot needle. The pain is sharp but fleeting, usually 2 - 3 seconds for each hair. It feels similar to plucking a hair.

For me laser is significantly more painful, and it takes longer for the pain to fade. It feels more like being shot with a BB gun, and the pain from each laser pulse may take 15 - 20 seconds to fade. Even then you will feel like you have a mild sunburn for an hour or so. I have already had 12 facial laser session, and #13 is scheduled.

I seem to be getting used to the pain from electrolysis. Although when my estradiol dose was bumped up the pain increased, after a few months the pain dropped back down quite a bit. Electrolysis hurts, but laser hurts like hell. I am also having my legs done via laser, and there are some places that take my breath away -- much more painful than upper lip work.

Estrogen has reduced my body hair quite a bit, but the only effect on facial hair was a slight decrease in growth rate.

Yikes!  Thank you Jessica Rose for this information.  Perhaps this treatment is best done under general anesthesia! 

Chrissy

I have salt and pepper all over my face, so just went the electrolysis route right out the gate.  I have only just begun when it comes down to it, 15 hours so far.  My electrocutioner has been rotating between my right and left upper lip and chin with 20 minutes each.
The last appointment though I was able to receive a shot of novacaine and the first (hardest) pass of the middle part (frenulum) and some each side and some in the nose.  With no sensation at all.  I even took a nap.
It costs $96 per hour, but my healthcare covers all but my co-pay of $20.

Hugs and smiles from a California girl

The laser folks eventually offered me a prescription for 'triple anesthetic cream', which is a combination of benzocaine, lidocaine, and tetracaine (yes, a BLT). It helps quite a bit, but it still hurts! If it is safe for you, taking some ibuprofen about an hour before your session also helps.

During my first several electrolysis session I had tears running down my face most of the time. After my second session I mentioned that this is not something anyone would do on a whim. No one would put up with this much discomfort unless they had a goal in mind.

Just wait until you start 'south pole' electrolysis!

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on November 18, 2018, 09:21:57 PM
The laser folks eventually offered me a prescription for 'triple anesthetic cream', which is a combination of benzocaine, lidocaine, and tetracaine (yes, a BLT). It helps quite a bit, but it still hurts! If it is safe for you, taking some ibuprofen about an hour before your session also helps.

During my first several electrolysis session I had tears running down my face most of the time. After my second session I mentioned that this is not something anyone would do on a whim. No one would put up with this much discomfort unless they had a goal in mind.

Just wait until you start 'south pole' electrolysis!

Is this "South Pole" electrolysis required for the surgeries down there?
If so, Non-Op sounds better right now!

Or is that hair removal down there just a personal preference item?

Double Yikes!  Gosh can we get an epidural for all of this?  Holy Moley!

Chrissy

Quote from: Jessica on November 18, 2018, 09:19:56 PM
I have salt and pepper all over my face, so just went the electrolysis route right out the gate.  I have only just begun when it comes down to it, 15 hours so far.  My electrocutioner has been rotating between my right and left upper lip and chin with 20 minutes each.
The last appointment though I was able to receive a shot of novacaine and the first (hardest) pass of the middle part (frenulum) and some each side and some in the nose.  With no sensation at all.  I even took a nap.
It costs $96 per hour, but my healthcare covers all but my co-pay of $20.

Hugs and smiles from a California girl

Thanks Jessica!  Your comments gives some hope to us pain averse whimps!

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 18, 2018, 09:30:29 PM

Is this "South Pole" electrolysis required for the surgeries down there?
If so, Non-Op sounds better right now!

Or is that hair removal down there just a personal preference item?

Double Yikes!  Gosh can we get an epidural for all of this?  Holy Moley!

Chrissy

South pole clearing requirements are unique to your surgeon. Some don't require it, while many insist on it. But think about it, would you really want to take a chance on having hair inside your vagina? Although it is a small area to cover, due to hair growth cycles the process could take 9 - 12 months to complete.

My electrologist had never worked in that area before, her husband was against it. I met her husband twice, once before I transitioned and again several months after. A few weeks after our second meeting, he told his wife that she could work on my 'south pole', but only for me. A few weeks later he told her that she could work on anyone who needed it. I am the first, and so far only, person who she has worked on in that area. During our first 'south pole' session she kept asking if I was OK. It was painful, but not as bad as I had expected. When the session was over and I checked things out I discovered my she was worried -- it looked like I had sat on a wasp nest! Although it looked painful, there was no lingering pain at all. Within 3 - 4 hours the swelling was completely gone. The discomfort and swelling seem to reduce with each session. Again, this is not something you do on a whim!

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on November 18, 2018, 09:54:53 PM
South pole clearing requirements are unique to your surgeon. Some don't require it, while many insist on it. But think about it, would you really want to take a chance on having hair inside your vagina? Although it is a small area to cover, due to hair growth cycles the process could take 9 - 12 months to complete.

My electrologist had never worked in that area before, her husband was against it. I met her husband twice, once before I transitioned and again several months after. A few weeks after our second meeting, he told his wife that she could work on my 'south pole', but only for me. A few weeks later he told her that she could work on anyone who needed it. I am the first, and so far only, person who she has worked on in that area. During our first 'south pole' session she kept asking if I was OK. It was painful, but not as bad as I had expected. When the session was over and I checked things out I discovered my she was worried -- it looked like I had sat on a wasp nest! Although it looked painful, there was no lingering pain at all. Within 3 - 4 hours the swelling was completely gone. The discomfort and swelling seem to reduce with each session. Again, this is not something you do on a whim!

Yes, for sure this should be not done on a whim, or on a wasp nest.  Is this the pole and/or scrotum or below those that gets this hair removal treatment? 

I see what you mean about having a hair inside the vagina, as that could be problematic.

Thank you for openly and tastefully addressing this "hairy" topic of the "South Pole" hair removal.

Chrissy

Quick question of my own; I have very dark brown hair with very light skin, no light hairs at all. From what I've read, it sounds like I have the best complexion for laser short of my hair being jet black. I realize it's hard to judge without a picture, but did anyone else with a dramatic contrast between hair and skin color have particularly good results with laser?

Quote from: Lucca on November 18, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
did anyone else with a dramatic contrast between hair and skin color have particularly good results with laser?

When I did laser, I was fair, but not light, skinned, and very dark hair. Laser did nothing at all for my facial hair, after several sessions and LOTS of money. It seemed lighter for a few months, and then seemed to come back with a vengeance. Laser worked fabulously on my legs. VERY happy about that laser experience. But for the face, an hour at a time doing electrolysis is the sure bet. A long bet. But a sure one...

As I have said in other threads, not only is there no easy button, there is no fast forward button...

Kate

I just had my first laser treatment.  I am pretty well tanned (because I live in SW Florida), my hair is a pepper and salt color type of mixture.  They want to do 3 laser treatments, and follow up for the rest with electrolysis.
According to their advertising, they have the most modern laser system available.  I seem not to be very pain sensitiv in my beart area (except for the upper lip I found out), and she could set the gun to the highest power.  It was not a hay ride, pain wise, but it was pretty tolerable, and the pain went away very fast once she was done.

I have another facial adventure tomorrow, microneedeling.  I hope that I will survive this, too, and look like a young goddess once it is done!

My next goals are to lose 15 to 20 lbs and get longer hair!  I wonder which of those goals I reach first?

Quote from: Lucca on November 18, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
Quick question of my own; I have very dark brown hair with very light skin, no light hairs at all. From what I've read, it sounds like I have the best complexion for laser short of my hair being jet black. I realize it's hard to judge without a picture, but did anyone else with a dramatic contrast between hair and skin color have particularly good results with laser?

Yes - you're a great candidate for laser. I'd do around 6-8 sessions of laser and then move to electrolysis.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 18, 2018, 10:09:54 PM

... Is this the pole and/or scrotum or below those that gets this hair removal treatment? 

Chrissy

Each surgeon may have different requirements, so to be certain you will need to check with them first. However if you are like me and hate body hair, then clearing the whole area is always an option!

I know medical terms are usually acceptable. Here is the description from my surgeon:

The area to be cleared for vaginoplasty must be completed no later than two weeks prior to surgery. The back of the scrotum should be cleared to one inch from the anus. Leave a 1/2 inch strip uncleared on the sides of the scrotum. It is not necessary to clear the front of the scrotum. If there is abundant hair on the shaft of the penis, this should be cleared to the base.

For me, the most painful area seems to be the 'seam' that runs down the center of the scrotum. Some places that I thought would be very painful are actually almost painless. It takes several clearings to permanently remove hair. Even though I have had that area cleared four or five times, I will keep having it done until nothing returns. 'Peach fuzz' hair is OK, you only need to be concerned with the coarse hair.

I have not seen many male genital areas, because we did our testing with pigs, who have different hair styles.  How hairy is the average male down there?  Is it very hairy, or just some hairs and the skin is easy to see through it?

My hair is pretty "open" and I can see skin at any place.  Most of my hair is located around the base of the penis, and there is hardly any hair on my scrotum.

Would that mean that my hair growth is normal, or less than normal?
The hair removal question will come up for me next year, and the longer of a lead time I have to get it done, the better it would be.

There are electrolysis places that do full clearings in one go. Some under twilight sleep/nerve blocks/sedation. The 2 I know of are in Dallas and Chicago. 2 8 hour days with 2 torturers err technicians runs about 5k with all options.  They claim 40% reductions per clearing so you may only need 3 sessions with a time/cost reduction each go. They both seemed to offer help for travelers  if staying at a recommended hotel.

Quote from: Jaime320 on November 19, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
There are electrolysis places that do full clearings in one go. Some under twilight sleep/nerve blocks/sedation. The 2 I know of are in Dallas and Chicago. 2 8 hour days with 2 torturers err technicians runs about 5k with all options.  They claim 40% reductions per clearing so you may only need 3 sessions with a time/cost reduction each go. They both seemed to offer help for travelers  if staying at a recommended hotel.

I used E2000 in Dallas a long time ago, and was VERY disappointed with the results in all dimensions. How much they cleared per day, the pain, the healing, the scaring, and the costs. All were far from the "advertised." I still have scars on the sides of my chin from that event...

Kate

Thanks so much everyone for all of this useful information.


Chrissy

Quote from: Dietlind on November 19, 2018, 07:26:08 AM
I have not seen many male genital areas, because we did our testing with pigs, who have different hair styles.  How hairy is the average male down there?  Is it very hairy, or just some hairs and the skin is easy to see through it?

My hair is pretty "open" and I can see skin at any place.  Most of my hair is located around the base of the penis, and there is hardly any hair on my scrotum.

Would that mean that my hair growth is normal, or less than normal?
The hair removal question will come up for me next year, and the longer of a lead time I have to get it done, the better it would be.

Oddly enough the amount of hair is not that important. Hair grows in cycles, and for electrolysis to work best the hair must be actively growing. Hair in different areas of the body has different growth cycles, some maybe as short as six weeks, some maybe as long as 12 weeks (I'm not certain about these numbers). Each hair needs to be treated two or three times during an active phase before it will be killed. So if you have 100 hairs or 1000 hairs you would still need at least 6 - 9 months before they will be killed off.

That sounds brutal!
To change the subject a little, I had my mircroneedeling session today.  Talking about torture.  I think the machine has the similar idea like tattoo machines, only it goes a little deeper into the skin.  They have to cover the entire surface of the facial and neck skin with it.  Hurting is a very mellow word for it! 
The idea behind this is to hurt the outer layer of the dermis enough to force it to create new collagen, which, when it grows new, will replace the previous wrinkly skin and also tightens it more.  The dead skin will be removed with several skin peels (4 are projected for me).  Considering the pain and the cost, I better look like a cover girl of Cosmopolitan once I am done with this!

Quote from: Lucca on November 18, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
Quick question of my own; I have very dark brown hair with very light skin, no light hairs at all. From what I've read, it sounds like I have the best complexion for laser short of my hair being jet black. I realize it's hard to judge without a picture, but did anyone else with a dramatic contrast between hair and skin color have particularly good results with laser?

I've been doing laser for most of this past year. My skin is light olive with black secondary hair.

YMWV, but I have been delighted with my results. I think my very best results have been from actual laser machines, not IPL (intense pulsed light, I think). Even so, IPL has also worked very well. I'm practically hairless.

Where has it hurt worst? My face! Yowch! It got easier as more and more follicles died, but the first few sessions were harsh.

Also, every time the machine's head has zapped even a little bit onto the Mayor or the Aldermen, I've sure felt it. I've learned to hold them securely shielded and out of the way while getting my nether areas cleared.

Very important to know: Groupon is your very best friend. A package of six sessions that would normally cost tons of money will be offered on Groupon for a fraction of that price.

However, Groupon constrains the kinds of packages that can be offered on their site into small, medium, and large, and these map to different areas of the body. For instance, lower legs may be defined as a large area, or faces as a medium. You can buy the clearing only where you need it.

Once you get to the salon, however, things can be a little more flexible. A salon will often give you the Groupon price without your buying the Groupon package, thus avoiding paying Groupon its commission. I have negotiated custom areas that Groupon isn't able to sell (given its constraints) for prices in a Groupon-ish price range.

My experience has also been that the technicians have been very tolerant if not completely affirming. In fact, some of them have been of great emotional support to me. Never would have expected that. Sometimes this world isn't completely >-bleeped-<ty.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Thanks! I have two places that have been recommended to me by my doctor and therapist, so I'm hoping to get decent results since they've been vetted to some degree.