Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Today HappyMoni  said in another topic, "Have you considered a slow visual transition with your mother? "


I wonder if that slow visual transition (without direct self-outing of your mtf status beforehand) would work with most people you have not said anything to about your transition, would it soften any potential shock for them?  You could be more outwardly female in a variety of ways over time.  If they notice, perhaps it opens up a path to a frank conversation on their own timetable, providing you can wait potentially that long to talk about it.

But going cold turkey, get the outing done and over with, perhaps that is just as good or better?  Maybe you have your own timetable and you just feel that you should not hold this life change in any longer. 

What do you all think?

Chrissy

I went slow-out at first. Friends and acquaintances thought I was sick or dying, due to varying degrees of make-up. They thought I was covering up an illness.

people at work asked what's up, word got around.

I gave up and dressed as me.

word got around faster.

ymmv

Quote from: Faith on November 23, 2018, 02:38:46 PM
I went slow-out at first. Friends and acquaintances thought I was sick or dying, due to varying degrees of make-up. They thought I was covering up an illness.

people at work asked what's up, word got around.

I gave up and dressed as me.

word got around faster.

ymmv

@Faith   
Dear Faith:
I am in full agreement with what you stated and how it might be best to approach our transition progress as it may become evident to others, especially close friends, relatives and immediate family members.

Hugs and well wishes as always,
Danielle     

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 23, 2018, 02:34:21 PM
Today HappyMoni  said in another topic, "Have you considered a slow visual transition with your mother? "


I wonder if that slow visual transition (without direct self-outing of your mtf status beforehand) would work with most people you have not said anything to about your transition, would it soften any potential shock for them?  You could be more outwardly female in a variety of ways over time.  If they notice, perhaps it opens up a path to a frank conversation on their own timetable, providing you can wait potentially that long to talk about it.

But going cold turkey, get the outing done and over with, perhaps that is just as good or better?  Maybe you have your own timetable and you just feel that you should not hold this life change in any longer. 

What do you all think?

Chrissy

@ChrissyRyan    cc: @HappyMoni
Dear Chrissy:
Every transitioners personal situation is different so the coming-out timetable is also going to be different for everyone.   One thing for sure is that when you finally do come-out it will be like a big weight is lifted off of your shoulders and you will live more freely and be able to finally dress and appear the way that makes you happy.   The best thing to do in my opinion is to not have to harbor your secret any longer than is necessary for your situation.   There is no "one answer fits all" ....  you do have choices to make that only you can deem appropriate.

I hope that these comments from Faith and me might have help you in some way... any further questions please let us know.

Hugs and I am always wishing your well.
Danielle

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 23, 2018, 03:45:39 PM
@ChrissyRyan    cc: @HappyMoni
Dear Chrissy:
Every transitioners personal situation is different so the coming-out timetable is also going to be different for everyone.   One thing for sure is that when you finally do come-out it will be like a big weight is lifted off of your shoulders and you will live more freely and be able to finally dress and appear the way that makes you happy.   The best thing to do in my opinion is to not have to harbor your secret any longer than is necessary for your situation.   There is no "one answer fits all" ....  you do have choices to make that only you can deem appropriate.

I hope that these comments from Faith and me might have help you in some way... any further questions please let us know.

Hugs and I am always wishing your well.
Danielle

Totally agree. Every time I come out to someone, it is a huge relief. I just wish I could come out to more people, but I can't yet, given my social circumstances and institutional commitments. But I think the bias should be to come out rather to continue to hide. You should always be asking, "Is there any compelling reason not to come out to this person?"

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 23, 2018, 02:34:21 PM
Today HappyMoni  said in another topic, "Have you considered a slow visual transition with your mother? "


I wonder if that slow visual transition (without direct self-outing of your mtf status beforehand) would work with most people you have not said anything to about your transition, would it soften any potential shock for them?  You could be more outwardly female in a variety of ways over time.  If they notice, perhaps it opens up a path to a frank conversation on their own timetable, providing you can wait potentially that long to talk about it.

But going cold turkey, get the outing done and over with, perhaps that is just as good or better?  Maybe you have your own timetable and you just feel that you should not hold this life change in any longer. 

What do you all think?

Chrissy

Since you quoted me Chrissy, I will give my personal opinion. Everyone must handle things their way, but I am not a big fan of the slow visual changes before coming out. I am a fan of putting it out there and then maybe slowly changing physical appearance to help loved ones adjust. I am not a fan of shocking people visually with a dramatic change. As for kind of hinting around as a means to come out, I think it causes confusion. People do better with certainty. If you are going to come out eventually, why not rip off the band aid. Allies appreciate you trusting them. I spoke in front of 90 coworkers when I came out. I didn't change my appearance for another 8 months or so. They had time to process the information, see that I was still me for a while without any change. If I had slowly changed before telling them, it would have seemed like I was hiding something. The gossip and speculation would have gotten going. Wrong assumptions would be made. It would not be me controlling my coming out. I wanted to present my news the best way I could. I was scared beyond belief, but I was as classy in my delivery as I could be. People respected me telling them face to face. I told them of the pain this thing caused me. I told them how I ran from it for so long and that I had to start living my life for me and not in fear of people's reactions.  I got a standing  ovation with many hugs. I wouldn't change a thing. YMMV

I think the the ripping off the wax or band-aid approach makes more sense than the slow reveal.  It may be wise to be selective though of who you come out to, its timing, and the order of who you reveal yourself to earlier than later.

The face to face approach makes the most sense to me, as it has the highest level of communcation strength, it is the most personal way to share.

But each of us has our own timetable.  Some wish early announcements but others prefer to have more "things lined up" and commitments made to self for transitioning before sharing. I am of the latter mindset.

Chrissy

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 23, 2018, 03:45:39 PM. . . not have to harbor your secret any longer than is necessary for your situation.   

           I call it "plausible deniability" tend to agree gradual approach best. Be all the woman one can be: hair, body shape & mannerisms, choice of type cloths, light foundation etc etc if needs be . . . but fact remains it's other people who tend to actually *confess*, out their impressions/feelings to me! Among others (mind you live in "the conservative South" no less) it was daughter-in-law's grandmother who out-of-blue one day critiqued (lol forget exact words) "<malename>! if wanna be girl your gonna need to work on your face"!.

My thought to self: "Gee thx grandma got an unused houses laying 'round we can sell for FFS"?

         Whether or not I ever decide to full transition remains to be seen but just GRS or 'dress' does not "a woman" make!  Always regarded myself as "living the dream" rather than "walking the walk"? Find family & friends most important but understand how many do not have that luxury so count my blessings instead. Everything we decide to do is a change-off, involves a sacrifice somewhere, but having to 'explain myself' to strangers, people I hardly know, would definitely NOT be one of them!

          Suppose in that sense I'll always be "stealth"? Be it male or female I think it's mostly others that decide that which "fits us best" it can't always be about 'me', or just "what I think". Recently posted elsewhere about liking "other guys" but taking the less traveled, "high-road" for me doesn't necessarily entail having to jump off some "deep end"!

(ps edit: Firmly feel MtF transition can be a male rite of passage if wanna get more "cis guys" on board then stop worrying about what the TERF's think!)

There was nothing visually slow about my transition. I told my manager, HR, and one trusted co-worker in Oct 2017. I kept my hair slicked down with a fistful of mousse every morning. Wearing jackets at my desk hid the growing girls. On Friday, 16 February 2018, I told my teammates and sent an email to over five dozen co-workers. On Monday, 19 February, Jessica went to work, and she has never looked back. No more hiding. As I came out to others, including my family, Jessica is who they saw and heard. Switching back and forth would have been too painful, so I just ripped off the band-aid.

So the summary of this thread so far seems to be: Slow works. Fast works.

;D

One potential benefit to the slow visual presentation route might be the possible dysphoria reduction of doing "small" things. Probably, for most, in the long run, such things will only delay the inevitable. If you are young, and have the opportunity to transition early, the delay would be bad. But if you are older, and would have to deal with an late transition anyway, perhaps the small things will be enough.

To add my data point to this: I have had and worn essentially only women's clothes for the past 30 years. I have worn mascara almost ever day for the past 30 years. But I presented as female only on my own time, and it was only last week that I came out fully at work. It sort of worked for me, and my spouse, for all those years. (I REALLY wish I had the guts to transition 30 years ago, but in that alternative future, my daughters don't exist and that is unacceptable...)

Kate

Quote from: KatieP on November 24, 2018, 03:07:16 PM


To add my data point to this: I have had and worn essentially only women's clothes for the past 30 years. I have worn mascara almost ever day for the past 30 years. But I presented as female only on my own time, and it was only last week that I came out fully at work. It sort of worked for me, and my spouse, for all those years. (I REALLY wish I had the guts to transition 30 years ago, but in that alternative future, my daughters don't exist and that is unacceptable...)

Kate

Kate, that's like the slowest coming out ever! lol (Please understand that that is totally said as a joke.)
No, I wouldn't wish my kids away either.
Glad you finally got off the fence. (Another joke, don't kill me.  :P)

Quote from: KatieP on November 24, 2018, 03:07:16 PM

I REALLY wish I had the guts to transition 30 years ago, but in that alternative future, my daughters don't exist and that is unacceptable...

Kate

I had been buying women's clothes for decades, but could never wear them because I was afraid of being caught. I even considered starting DIY HRT around 2002, but I was afraid it would destroy my family and my career. I too sometimes wish I could have transitioned four decades ago, but just like you, I can't envision a world without my daughters. We can't fix the past, but we can 'fix' the present and look forward to a future being the person we were meant to be.

Quote from: HappyMoni on November 25, 2018, 08:40:38 AM
Kate, that's like the slowest coming out ever! lol (Please understand that that is totally said as a joke.)
No, I wouldn't wish my kids away either.
Glad you finally got off the fence. (Another joke, don't kill me.  :P)

HA!

Not only taken as a joke, I laughed, and am still smiling thinking about the slowest coming out ever!  ;D

I am not sure WHY I finally decided to get off the fence. It's probably something worth talking to a therapist about, although I probably won't. And, I have been VERY happy not having those fence posts sticking up my butt any more...


Kate

The only family I had near me that saw me often was my second cousin. He and his family never gave it much thought.

My Mom didn't see me often but I remember showing up at their place with my GWU T-shirt and woman's kakis with a sports bra under the shirt because I required the support. The first thing my Mom did was do the feel test to see if they where real. It was very quick and awkward and happened too fast for me to stop it. My Mom then took us to a therapy session after church without letting me know that they where planning it. I was upset and my oldest younger sister was more concerned about how she would tell her potential boyfriend about me...

I ended the session blessing them all out. The worst part is my Mom still displays my old photos all over the house and now I've been outed to my sisters in laws and I'm patronized. The worst is going out to eat and they still slip up on the pronouns. I love my parents, barely speak to my one sister but hate going back there because after 8 years the slips are still outing me around them and I'm sick of it.

So in short the speed of your transition won't necessarily do anything with the timeline for others.

 I probably had the slowest transition possible.  I transited over the course of 15 or 16 years without really knowing it (or my body did, and my mind tried to catch up).  Once I knew kind of what was going on, I tried to play the gender fluid role for a couple of years.
I presented as man, but every female (they seem to have far better senses in those things which are emotional) felt that i was different from other men.  They told me that they could not put a finger on it, but the could talk with me and to me like to another woman, and got unexpected female type responses instead of male ones.
After a while, specifically once my breasts grew more, I could not hold back anymore, and started to come out.  Still presenting as a male at that time.  There more people I came out to, the more relived I felt.  as if a bunch of rocks were taken off of my shoulders.  At that time I started to dress female more and more, and my friends helped me (all cis women) to become a real woman!
Now that I am out to anybody I want to be out, I finally feel free.
I just discussed with my ex, what our son should call me, we did not come o a conclusion, yet!

What a brilliant thread. This is so what I needed.

My greatest fear is coming out at work which I was planning to do little by little. But perhaps I will take a more direct approach as this has made me think about trust and respect at work.

If I explain why I am doing this then at least people have a chance to understand. And it will also hopefully show that I respect them as not only colleagues, but also as friends. If I don't explain then people will do what people do - they will form their own views. And chances are it will be wrong.

I don't expect everyone to accept this, but at least it should isolate the prejudiced whispers more than it will isolate me.

Thanks
John

Quote from: JaslineUK on December 28, 2018, 06:55:27 AM
What a brilliant thread. This is so what I needed.

My greatest fear is coming out at work which I was planning to do little by little. But perhaps I will take a more direct approach as this has made me think about trust and respect at work.

If I explain why I am doing this then at least people have a chance to understand. And it will also hopefully show that I respect them as not only colleagues, but also as friends. If I don't explain then people will do what people do - they will form their own views. And chances are it will be wrong.

I don't expect everyone to accept this, but at least it should isolate the prejudiced whispers more than it will isolate me.

Thanks
John

Sometimes you find acceptance in groups you feel you would never get accepted by.  One of my hobbies is real hard offroading (like in rock climbing), a sport as macho as they come.  I belong to a forum for offroaders, and came out to them, expecting laughter and jokes about me.  It as not the case, the tenor was, "great, we need more chicks in this sport anyway", and that was it!

Quote from: JaslineUK on December 28, 2018, 06:55:27 AM


If I explain why I am doing this then at least people have a chance to understand. And it will also hopefully show that I respect them as not only colleagues, but also as friends. If I don't explain then people will do what people do - they will form their own views. And chances are it will be wrong.

I don't expect everyone to accept this, but at least it should isolate the prejudiced whispers more than it will isolate me.

Thanks
John

I have two things to say about explaining things to others: 1. Most of us do not have an "elevator pitch" that really explains what is really inside. And 2. Even if you do, the person you are talking to will never understand it, since they are not trans.

I use word pictures and similes/metaphors most of the time. I described my first day fully out at work by saying, "It was like taking my first big deep breath on a cool mountain morning." I never had to get to WHY it felt like that or any of the inside my head things.

Maybe I am just saying that I don't think we have to explain things to others, necessarily.

Kate

Quote from: KatieP on December 28, 2018, 10:36:45 AM
Maybe I am just saying that I don't think we have to explain things to others, necessarily

Hi Kate

I think with everything there is a time and a place as well as what is the best approach for individuals. I was going to go the route of small changes over a period of time. But reading the thread make me think that it would probably be easier and less stressful to do it in one go. For me I need to let people know before I do it . . . . that's just my nature  :)


P.S. Just made myself laugh on several accounts - I'm talking about work, so how do I sign my post. As Jasline . . . nope. I sign as John. Now what would Freud make of that? It also made me realise that I have probably signed work emails as Jas or Jasline. Will need to check that one out . . . that would have confused someone   :D

Jasline x

Quote from: JaslineUK on December 28, 2018, 10:50:32 AMI have probably signed work emails as Jas or Jasline. Will need to check that one out . . . that would have confused someone   :D

        lol Would it? Slow & gradual as some transitions may be your always gonna have surprising, more dramatic one-on-one moments. Picture that person on other end of a work email *smiling* and going "ah-ha! but already knew as much all along!"

I suspect that some suspect as I've had long hair, long finger nails and I gesticulate lots when I talk. So I do have some feminine traits.

I gesticulate a lot, naturally.

Chrissy

I tried a slow visual transformation of my face so that no one would notice as my beard went away but I kept my long hair. What actually happened was that no one noticed my beard getting shorter until it was just about gone, they only noticed when it went from almost gone to totally gone, then everyone still noticed all at once. It seems that there are some things for which there is a critical tipping point where everyone will notice as you cross a particular threshold, and be otherwise oblivious as you waffle about both sides.

I don't really know if a single mannerism of me indicated more femininity or not.  All my female friends (most of them were already friend when I still presented as male), told me that they always sensed that I was more woman than man, because of the emotional level I used to talk with them.  I did not have long hair (but no beard either), and dressed most of the time kind of androgynous, with a little leaning to the male side.  But I never dressed typical guy sloppy, and had always the right shoes in type and color for any outfit I had on.  Bu my voice was never real low, not high as a tenor, but also in the androgynous level.

It is interesting that none of them recognized the more obvious female things my body displayed (they later admitted that they should have seen those).  No Addams Apple, no hair on arms or legs, no receding hairline or bald spots, which is pretty unusual for a man of my age.  All these clear indicators went unrecognized, and it was the emotional level that outed me as a female to them.

I did a slow transition,I grew my hair out from a DA, had electrolysis while self medicating.I got away with it for 18 months or so, people asked me how come I was getting younger looking. I  had my hair dyed many different colours, blonde, red then black then red & permed but most people assumed it was because I was hanging round with the crowd from the punk & metal club

Hi HappiMoni:
You talk quite a bit in your post (Reply #19) about what will be easiest on others. Sorry, but I'm much more concerned with what will be easiest on ME!! My therapist (Dr. Andjelka Stones, a specialist in trans matters, whom I found on this site!) recommended that I get myself as far along emotionally and physically as possible before telling the whole world. She said that a negative response at that moment can be devastating—and the happier I am with my presentation and with my decision when I encounter a tactless or intentionally cruel response, the better able I will be to withstand it. And I agree. Much more important than helping neighbors, co-workers, etc, digest the news. I believe that anyone who is going to stand by me is going to stand by me, regardless of how they find out. The decision to transition has at its core the belief, hard won by many of us, that we need to pay more attention to how we feel and less to how others feel, at least insofar as our own lives are concerned. So, we each need to choose our own path, without question; and this one may not be for everyone but it's definitely mine!! :)

Quote from: StephanieIn2019 on January 19, 2019, 10:38:51 AM
Hi HappiMoni:
You talk quite a bit in your post (Reply #19) about what will be easiest on others. Sorry, but I'm much more concerned with what will be easiest on ME!! My therapist (Dr. Andjelka Stones, a specialist in trans matters, whom I found on this site!) recommended that I get myself as far along emotionally and physically as possible before telling the whole world. She said that a negative response at that moment can be devastating—and the happier I am with my presentation and with my decision when I encounter a tactless or intentionally cruel response, the better able I will be to withstand it. And I agree. Much more important than helping neighbors, co-workers, etc, digest the news. I believe that anyone who is going to stand by me is going to stand by me, regardless of how they find out. The decision to transition has at its core the belief, hard won by many of us, that we need to pay more attention to how we feel and less to how others feel, at least insofar as our own lives are concerned. So, we each need to choose our own path, without question; and this one may not be for everyone but it's definitely mine!! :)

That's been my motto for the past 2 years almost.  How do I explain something I haven't lived, become and experienced? I just caught a high school friend up and although she did know I was transitioning, she didn't keep up. Realistically speaking, no one, unless they're immediate family can possibly keep up with a transgender persons transition. Peoples lives are just too busy. Gradually overtime they adjust little by little, but invest in yourself first and foremost. 

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Allison S on January 19, 2019, 11:13:53 AM
That's been my motto for the past 2 years almost.  How do I explain something I haven't lived, become and experienced? I just caught a high school friend up and although she did know I was transitioning, she didn't keep up. Realistically speaking, no one, unless they're immediate family can possibly keep up with a transgender persons transition. Peoples lives are just too busy. Gradually overtime they adjust little by little, but invest in yourself first and foremost. 

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Allison,

What you say about people being busy with their lives makes sense.  Unless the person who knows of your transitioning truly cares about your life and is very personally close to you, that person is just not involved much with your changes and new life.

That is likely true though whether you are transitioning or not, it is all about how much you both keep in touch with each other and how well that you both keep each other informed.  That is a mutual responsibility and interest relationship.  The other person has to do his or her part to keep that level of interest up.  She or he has got to want to do that as do you.

Chrissy

I came out to my closest friends and family while I was still presenting as male only.  They actually helped me along during my transition.
My therapist gave me homework to do, to get "hardened" for fail situations.  The toughest part was, she wanted me to go bra and female underwear shopping in several stores while presenting as male.
I almost s*** into my own underwear ,prior to entering the first store for this kind of shopping.  And to my surprise, hardly anybody cared, some older ladies looked a little funny at me, but that lasted only a second or two, and they went back to their own shopping.  The second store was way easier, and when I went into the third store, I could care less what others thought about me.
The next hurdle was bathrooms, I hardly drank anything prior to going out, because I was scared t death to go into the ladies room.  And nobody there killed me either.
e were out last night, and i had to go to the bathroom, and all stalls were occupied, and two other women, also waiting, and I had a nice chat about the event going on in town.  Going to the ladies room is as norml for me now, as going to the mens room used to be.

Hey Chrissy !

I tried to come out to my mom when I was 13 but it tragically wasn't taken seriously. When I was 25 I mentioned it again, and, through many reasons, was talked out of transitioning. Little did I know it started a pressure in me that almost led to offing myself 5 years later. 

At that moment I knew I was on my own and had to make an unpopular decision.. or else. So.. The hammer of near-suicide striking the pressure that was built up sort of led to quite a coming out to every possible person I knew, starting with those who I figured would back me.. and working my way outward. The momentum of people being happy for me,coupled with telling them about it a little better each time, coupled with the fact that my lifelong dark secret was getting exposed to light.. Just accentuated the faster-than-light experience.

Lost some friends. Improved the quality of those that remained.  Mom went through phases of denial, self blame, weird conclusions, acceptance but embarrassed, to neutral, to.. Going shopping with her daughter as a girls night out. Just have to give her time, have tons of patience, and help clarify and correct her rational as the realization settles in.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on November 23, 2018, 02:34:21 PM
Today HappyMoni  said in another topic, "Have you considered a slow visual transition with your mother? "


I wonder if that slow visual transition (without direct self-outing of your mtf status beforehand) would work with most people you have not said anything to about your transition, would it soften any potential shock for them?  You could be more outwardly female in a variety of ways over time.  If they notice, perhaps it opens up a path to a frank conversation on their own timetable, providing you can wait potentially that long to talk about it.

But going cold turkey, get the outing done and over with, perhaps that is just as good or better?  Maybe you have your own timetable and you just feel that you should not hold this life change in any longer. 

What do you all think?

Chrissy

Sorry to chime in so late. I found that at work while transitioning that the guys where clueless and the woman looked at me strange. However I still shocked all of them when I came out even with 9 months of changes. Mostly because presentation, body language and speech mannerisms make a huge difference and having perfected my mask even with the truth right there they still stayed inside the box that is their expected reality.

Interestingly enough it got to the point where they where correcting waiters at lunch when I got mammed before they heard me speak.

I think this is probably like the cooking a live frog scenario where going slowly actually makes it more of a shock.