Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was recently interviewed for an article on unexpected shifts or discoveries in gender orientation for folks coming out after age 30.  I had a few thoughts on the topic that I expressed in the interview, and I thought I would get them in writing for our members.

https://www.bustle.com/p/discovering-my-sexuality-after-i-was-30-was-confusing-this-is-what-i-wish-i-knew-13168529

I believe my shift in orientation, fundamentally becoming open to a larger range of partners, was due more to my recognizing and breaking down social taboos on orientation than any innate shift from hormone replacement therapy (HRT) or transition-related surgeries.

Our gender orientation, sexual and romantic, is built in layers.  There is a biological primitive, a bit of our brains wired to recognize other people as possible mates or competitors.  This sets the core of our sexual orientation.  We see others and this bit of our brain identifies those who might be possible mates or sexual partners, based on what can be perceived.  It tends to be a pretty broad sort of classification filter, and there are correlations such that it appears to be set in fetal development during the third trimester by the testosterone level the developing brain is exposed to.

In my case, the filter seems to favor femme appearance as a possible mate.

Our culture insists on certain behaviors as being acceptable.   Since this body was assigned male at birth, this culture had insisted that while growing up and presenting as male, that I only select persons with a strongly femme appearance as a potential mate.  That more or less matches my brain's setting, so that was OK.  I accepted the cultural conditioning and assumed that was just how I was.

Ah, but then I came to accept my true nature, and violated cultural taboo by coming out and transitioning.  It turns out that breaking one taboo and surviving makes it easier to break other taboos.

Post-transition I, as a woman attracted to women, identified my orientation as a lesbian.  (Cis-lesbian readers, I understand how you may feel about this.  Just read on, please.  This is just my orientation, not culture!)

I was in a transgender person support group meeting, and sitting next to me was a man, with a lovely red-orange beard and reddish leg hair.  They were very kind and open, and I liked them.  In fact, I found myself fantasizing about them.  Now, where was THIS coming from?

After considerable introspection and discussion with some very good sexuality specialists, I realized that the people I am attracted to have not actually identified their genitalia to me, and that the women I did attractive are actually just a subset of persons with some strongly feminine aspects that I admire.  That is I am attracted to persons with some strongly femme attribute to their presentation, and not to some particular set of genitalia.

I rather flippantly describe my orientation now as lesbian with a 30% chance of queer.

This change was driven by my being more open to questioning cultural norms, and I beleive it was not affected by my HRT or surgery, beyond those resulting from my initially challenging and violating cultural norms.

Michelle,
   Shift in gender orientation or sexual orientation?  I had read that article and did not realize that was you. I am honored to be in the presence of a celebrity. lol Good on you for doing it.
   I think for anyone changing orientation, they have a very personal set of circumstances behind why that happens. Mine would be quite different than what you describe. I will say that I find kindness to be a very attractive quality to me. Who I see as sexually attractive also has a great deal to do with the role I fill in comparison to that person. Surgery has played a part in this.
Moni

For me I don't see it as much of a shift but more of a "allowing" or "opening of mind". I recognise that whilst presenting as male I could not entertain the idea of another man wanting me because I was a man. I was perfectly ok if he was a man wanting me as a woman. I am also perfectly Okay with women although my needs and wants are going to be very different in a few days... I assume women will do it for me as well(don't know for sure) but when I fantasize its not the ladies I think about...I never allowed myself to consider a relationship with a guy because he would want me for all the wrong reasons....For me its going to be more about the person than their gender.

Take care

Liz

Pre-transition I had no attraction to men and I was only attracted to women. After about 6 months on HRT I started to notice men and now I'm pansexual with a strong preference for masculine men. I still find women attractive but not as strongly as I once did. For me the barrier with men pre transition is I was turned off about being male and having men interested in me for my masculinity but me as a woman changed things and now I find it really contrasts my femininity well.


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Quote from: Nikkimn on December 01, 2018, 02:43:36 AM
Pre-transition I had no attraction to men and I was only attracted to women. After about 6 months on HRT I started to notice men and now I'm pansexual with a strong preference for masculine men. I still find women attractive but not as strongly as I once did. For me the barrier with men pre transition is I was turned off about being male and having men interested in me for my masculinity but me as a woman changed things and now I find it really contrasts my femininity well.


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We are all very individual I think. I'm not sure there is a generic story. In my old persona I hadn't thought about men but I think there were masculine traits I admired and naturally prized in girlfriends. Since I discovered my real self I have found that I am exclusively interested in men for which my boyfriend is very thankful [emoji16][emoji16]


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I've never been particularly observant of cultural norms. I knew I was bisexual around the age of 13-14, and I didn't feel a hint of guilt or questionableness in that, which if I had would imply I'd been paying attention to cultural norms. I haven't experienced any change after transition and HRT in orientation though. 

Quote from: HappyMoni on November 30, 2018, 11:54:43 PM
I will say that I find kindness to be a very attractive quality to me. Who I see as sexually attractive also has a great deal to do with the role I fill in comparison to that person. Surgery has played a part in this.
Moni

I am the same as you Moni. I find kindness the most sexually attractive quality... followed by charisma. My concept of physical beauty changes according to how people interact with me. So if you look at my past partners, they have all been very different physically but very similar in personality. At the moment that translates in female partners but only because men have rarely treated me with that sort of kindness before. That might change as I change. If a man steps in to defend me in the future, then I am likely to start finding them attractive.

   I have been thinking about this and I will put this out there. Please be kind if you differ in your thoughts.  I think we trans people who have partners hope upon hope that our partners are flexible enough to accept a 'changed gender' partner. That could be with or without the sexual component depending on the individuals. SO's are faced with tremendous change in their partner and it affects their self concept as well. Not being an SO, I don't know what social pressures that that brings on them. I imagine some pressure is of the 'you should stay' variety and some is 'you should leave.' As a trans person I feel tremendous social pressure to not have  my sexual orientation change. The hope upon hope is that that part needs to stay the same. I went to my medical professional the other day. She treats trans people. She stated that change in sexuality for transitioning people is pretty common. From what I have  seen on these boards, it is not uncommon on here either. I so often see new people agonizing over whether trans feelings they have are legitimate because they have a sexual  component to them. "Maybe this is just a fetish, and I'm not really trans." (In some cases, it may be true.) But to me, we are sexual beings who happen to be trans as well, and sometimes that sexuality can be squeezed to try to make all this work.  After all, we are often trying to be sexual with the wrong body parts. We seek changes because it doesn't work. So, once we are able to express our true selves (through social interactions, hormones, body part changes, and self concept changes) our sexuality is no longer squeezed as it is when in the wrong gender configuration. For some, this means orientation change, for others, it stays the same. For some, the ship stays on course, for others, a course correction is needed. I don't care to judge either group. What we all aim for is being happy, to not be tortured with dysphoria. The tricky part is this. How do you find your own personal happiness and not hurt others in the process. You can have an amazing relationship, be happy with so much, and be faced with desires that don't fit that life. Does it become a happiness versus hurting loved ones scenario? Yeah, maybe. I don't think orientation can any more be controlled than being trans can be.

Everyone is different so I think orientation is very much an individual experience. I agree in that suppressed orientation will eventually lead to change when free from suppression.

I have always been attracted sexually to guys but suppressed that to fit in. I like to socialize with woman and find generally attractive in body and personality. Guys can be extremely attractive in body but many times no matter how physically attractive there are there are turn offs. Mostly around being too nice or complete jerks. There are some guys that are physically attractive and are fun to be with and being difficult (not jerks) rarely. They are the ones I want to be with. 

Quote from: Rachel on December 09, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
Everyone is different so I think orientation is very much an individual experience. I agree in that suppressed orientation will eventually lead to change when free from suppression.

I see it as definitely not a suppression as much as an evolution. I never felt I suppressed any attraction in my case.

I have wondered about whether or not I was suppressing any attraction to men.  After more than a year and a half full-time and nearly two years on HRT, I have felt not the slightest urge in that direction.  So I am starting to conclude that the interest was just never there.  I have always found men kind of icky, and it embarassed me that I was (apparently) one of them.

My awareness of my orientation has shifted a bit, though.  I knew I was lesbian before I knew I was a woman.  (Yes, I know that makes no sense, but that's how it was.)  But since transitioning, I now realize that I am mostly asexual and always have been.

Being in a long-term relationship, I am happy that nothing has happened to my orientation that would shake things up.

Thank you Michelle for such an interesting thread. I am aware that most transitioners do not change sexual orientation but that it does happen to some and I can completely understand and believe what you state.

I never married and as a man had a few girlfriends for romantic reasons many years ago and have been celibate for over 30 years. I am 63 and on HRT 10 months and will publicly transition in 2019. Unlike Kathy I knew I was trans as a child of 4 and realized I was "not really interested in either" and hence mainly asexual aged 20.

However last year aged 62 I realized that like Kathy I am of course asexual with minor lesbian tendencies.

Hugs to all

Pamela

2.5 months in and starting to notice guys more and women less.

I have always admired women. Not necessarily because of sex but because I admired their beauty, their compassion, their ability to nurture. Maybe sex would have been more prominent if my equipment were not so lacking. It is easy to love but hard to express with all the expectations and not being able to perform.  I value character more than sexual orientation so I can say I love my male friends as much as my female friends. It's just men don't usually show much character they would rather be macho. Even the most feeble examples believe they are sexual Gods.

This is a fascinating thread.  Thank you, Michelle for starting it.

Since I was aware of attraction at around age 10 I have liked boys and girls but socially suppressed the boy part as I as was in a Catholic school.

My first sexual partner was male and it was so incredibly intense that nothing has come near it since.  It was a big secret and nobody knew.  My only female sexual partner was my wife although she knows that just before we got together, I was on the rebound from a different guy. It has never felt quite right using my male parts with either a male OR female partner and it was only after I realised I was trans that it clicked that I seem to have the sexuality of a heterosexual female.  Since that time, my sexual interest in women has dropped off, but my interest in men has been the same as it was.  Maybe it's the breaking of the taboo?

Interestingly, I can be attracted to women from a distance but as soon as I get close to them, that attraction drops off.  Conversely, I can be not attracted to a certain man but if I get really close then my attraction increases dramatically.  I noticed this when I had to bandage a guy's hand a work (as a first aider) as I was holding his hand it was electric!  It really shook me.  I tried a similar scenario with holding my wife's hand and a female friend and nothing...

I can be emotionally attracted to a woman, but not sexually any more and that is a shift since coming out and it can't be HRT as I'm not on it yet.

How I feel about trans men and women?  Well, that's a whole other can of worms that I'm trying to work though as I AM attracted to femininity AND masculinity, but male femininity and this might be some manifestation of internalised transphobia or it could be just as simple as if they look totally cis-female then the attraction drops off.  It's definitely a can of worms for me, but I think I'll have to take it on an individual basis and work out if I'm attracted at the time.

Interesting stuff!  ;D ;D ;D

V x

Quote from: VickyS on December 13, 2018, 11:25:26 AM
...
Interestingly, I can be attracted to women from a distance but as soon as I get close to them, that attraction drops off.  Conversely, I can be not attracted to a certain man but if I get really close then my attraction increases dramatically.  I noticed this when I had to bandage a guy's hand a work (as a first aider) as I was holding his hand it was electric!  It really shook me.  I tried a similar scenario with holding my wife's hand and a female friend and nothing...

I can be emotionally attracted to a woman, but not sexually any more and that is a shift since coming out and it can't be HRT as I'm not on it yet.

That's interesting!

One idle speculation is that change in our olfactory response that many report when starting HRT.  The sense of smell becomes much more acute in some of us, and I wonder if that also means some latent sensitivity to pheromones becomes more active.

I know in my case that some men started smelling very musky, almost acrid, and women seemed to have a slightly sweet scent, no, not Chanel, but something subtle even with women who were 'fragrance free'.  (I find I am not attracted to cis-males, and this might be a factor.)

I'm pretty sure I started giving off different pheromones.  After starting HRT, but not out and still passing as male, I noticed changes in posture of men around me.  In club meetings, for example, some of the older men shifted their posture, leaning in toward me or standing closer than they had a few months earlier.  I thought it was odd until I read about scent cues related to hormones.

Quote
How I feel about trans men and women?  Well, that's a whole other can of worms that I'm trying to work though as I AM attracted to femininity AND masculinity, but male femininity and this might be some manifestation of internalised transphobia or it could be just as simple as if they look totally cis-female then the attraction drops off.  It's definitely a can of worms for me, but I think I'll have to take it on an individual basis and work out if I'm attracted at the time.

It's an interesting question.  All I can suggest is being aware and honest with yourself, and keep note of feelings of attraction and the sensations around you.  Enjoy your explorations!

Quote from: KathyLauren on December 10, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
I have wondered about whether or not I was suppressing any attraction to men.  After more than a year and a half full-time and nearly two years on HRT, I have felt not the slightest urge in that direction.  So I am starting to conclude that the interest was just never there.  I have always found men kind of icky, and it embarassed me that I was (apparently) one of them.

My awareness of my orientation has shifted a bit, though.  I knew I was lesbian before I knew I was a woman.  (Yes, I know that makes no sense, but that's how it was.)  But since transitioning, I now realize that I am mostly asexual and always have been.

Being in a long-term relationship, I am happy that nothing has happened to my orientation that would shake things up.

Yes - how do you maintain the relationship with your spouse and go the whole 9 yards.  Right now I'm just trying to deal with being on HRT and having fessed up to my Doctor about it.  Which is all less then a week ago so going beyond that is difficult to ponder.  I've been wading in an inch at a time I guess.  I admire the bravery of those that jump in with both feet but....   Its just too much and I'm not sure but perhaps HRT is enough.   Being public and getting acceptance is not as important to me.  Internal change is really more my thing.   Which probably sounds very odd.

I guess it sounds odd to people who aren't feeling this way but how else would you describe being a lesbian before you knew you were a woman?  I think maybe the two just go together for some of us.  I think part of the difficulty is having to heap on one more thing that is going to add to the stigma that some people try to lay on us for existing.  The thing that is always a mystery is why people with no connection or experience are so sure they are right. 

I do hope that HRT doesn't shift my interest in women to men.  I obviously don't care for my own guy parts much less someone elses. 

Maybe this is just me but I've had a couple of odd experience with men coming out to me as gay and I've had to be "Ok, thats great and all but I'm sorry but I'm really not into men."   Maybe its the Radar picking up "different" and miss IDing? 

Feeling asexual can be (my opinion) the Hormone mix.  Dialing down estrogen to near zero blanked out my drive.  Having near zero testosterone had the same effect.  I think having none of either is a sure fire way to put out the fire.

I do not know if this has anything to do with it but my male orgasm is really lacking. I really get nothing out of it.  :icon_confused:

While the other one is now 10 times better in every way possible. One good one and I'm good for a week! The other one before transitioning took 3 to 4 times per week and at two attempts each time. And I would still be frustrated.

I would still have sex with a woman, but it would be a bit different if you know what I mean.  Probably TMI, but it is SO very true.

"It has never felt quite right using my male parts with either a male OR female partner"

BINGO Wow that sure rings true.   Without this getting too TMI a "guy" who wears a strapon most of the time suddenly  makes a lot more sense. 

Quote from: JanePlain on December 13, 2018, 02:55:08 PM
Yes - how do you maintain the relationship with your spouse and go the whole 9 yards.

Either I got lucky in the spouse sweepstakes or my judgement 15 years ago was better than I thought.  She doesn't consider herself a lesbian though we are now a same-sex couple.  Rather, she considers herself "LBM": lesbian by marriage.  :D  Our relationship has been asexual for quite a few years, since she hit menopause, so that was not a factor for either of us.  So it comes down to the fact that she wasn't weirded out by remaining married to me.  She knows I am still the person she married, though I am now me 2.0.

Quote
Maybe this is just me but I've had a couple of odd experience with men coming out to me as gay and I've had to be "Ok, thats great and all but I'm sorry but I'm really not into men."   Maybe its the Radar picking up "different" and miss IDing? 

Yes, that is a thing.  It didn't happen to me as an adult, but it did when I was a teenager, long before I knew I was trans.  This guy's gaydar malfunctioned and he thought I was gay.  It was traumatic for me, and left me confused for a long time.

Quote
Feeling asexual can be (my opinion) the Hormone mix.  Dialing down estrogen to near zero blanked out my drive.  Having near zero testosterone had the same effect.  I think having none of either is a sure fire way to put out the fire.

My E is in the normal range for a pre-menopausal woman, and my T is unmeasurable.  The lack of T certainly shut off what libido I had.  But it is not just current lack of libido that makes me conclude that I am mostly asexual.  There are signs going way back in my life.  I didn't date a lot, and I was a virgin until I was 30.  I was never the one to initiate sex.  So, in hindsight, I would say that I was always close to asexual.  Which makes my current situation acceptable.

Quote from: JanePlain on December 13, 2018, 03:15:08 PM
"It has never felt quite right using my male parts with either a male OR female partner"

BINGO Wow that sure rings true.   Without this getting too TMI a "guy" who wears a strapon most of the time suddenly makes a lot more sense.

<blushs> So very true!

Quote from: KathyLauren on December 13, 2018, 03:44:39 PM
Either I got lucky in the spouse sweepstakes or my judgement 15 years ago was better than I thought.  She doesn't consider herself a lesbian though we are now a same-sex couple.  Rather, she considers herself "LBM": lesbian by marriage.  :D  Our relationship has been asexual for quite a few years, since she hit menopause, so that was not a factor for either of us.  So it comes down to the fact that she wasn't weirded out by remaining married to me.  She knows I am still the person she married, though I am now me 2.0.

Yes, that is a thing.  It didn't happen to me as an adult, but it did when I was a teenager, long before I knew I was trans.  This guy's gaydar malfunctioned and he thought I was gay.  It was traumatic for me, and left me confused for a long time.

My E is in the normal range for a pre-menopausal woman, and my T is unmeasurable.  The lack of T certainly shut off what libido I had.  But it is not just current lack of libido that makes me conclude that I am mostly asexual.  There are signs going way back in my life.  I didn't date a lot, and I was a virgin until I was 30.  I was never the one to initiate sex.  So, in hindsight, I would say that I was always close to asexual.  Which makes my current situation acceptable.

I'm really glad to hear that your relationship didn't blow up!  Its good to have a place like this where you can find others who have been there and done that.  LBM!  Ok, thats pretty good.  I think technique wise my spouse has been LBM the day we got married.  She just didn't know it.

I'm really curious about the connection between hormones and mood (Like depression) and sex drive.  I have read a mountain of stuff.  After the Orchie I was trying for the longest time to testosterone myself out of my issues and part of that was taking a drug that inhibited estrogen.  I had to stop taking that (Health problem) and my estrogen levels went back up along with sex drive.  Thats when I jumped ship (so to speak) and went rogue with blackmarket estrogen (Which was dumb) and dialed down the testosterone.  I think that this also does something positive about depression.   Or it just might be that finally doing something about this whole mtf thing relieved some of the depression. 

Odd what you say about dating.  This mirrors me in a way.  I was just never that much of a initiator sexually.  I actually had a girl friend call me decades later (She sounded tipsy) asking me why about not having sex and if it would have been great.  I said it would have been great and got off the phone as fast as I could without being rude.    What can you do?  Anyway being more sexual seems to me to be better then the alternative.  Although if you had asked me before?  I would have had a different (pretty much asexual) opinion.

Quote from: JanePlain on December 13, 2018, 02:55:08 PM

I guess it sounds odd to people who aren't feeling this way but how else would you describe being a lesbian before you knew you were a woman?  I think maybe the two just go together for some of us.  I think part of the difficulty is having to heap on one more thing that is going to add to the stigma that some people try to lay on us for existing.  The thing that is always a mystery is why people with no connection or experience are so sure they are right. 

I do hope that HRT doesn't shift my interest in women to men.  I obviously don't care for my own guy parts much less someone elses. 

Maybe this is just me but I've had a couple of odd experience with men coming out to me as gay and I've had to be "Ok, thats great and all but I'm sorry but I'm really not into men."   Maybe its the Radar picking up "different" and miss IDing? 

Feeling asexual can be (my opinion) the Hormone mix.  Dialing down estrogen to near zero blanked out my drive.  Having near zero testosterone had the same effect.  I think having none of either is a sure fire way to put out the fire.

Hello Jane

I agree wholeheartedly with these 4 paras.

Trans & Lesbian or Trans & Asexual with minor Lesbian tendencies go together for many of us.

Indeed why do the opposition really believe they are right? What has moved them to be so narrowminded? 

My dislike of my male parts and body hair extends to those of others also.

I was regularly mistaken as gay instead of trans for most of my life. I am now 63.

I think I am asexual (with minor lesbian tendencies) due to originally below average T aswell as due to being trans and hence in possession of "the wrong equipment".

Hugs

Pamela

For me I went from being what I thought was a heterosexual male, to a bisexual trans woman. It was a weird journey, since I've been attracted to females since puberty, and I didn't really have any attraction towards males. One thing I did notice which I didn't understand until after accepting myself is that there have been a few of my guy friends where I felt differently about them than other friends.

I think a lot of it just comes down to self acceptance, and I'm more open now that I would be a woman in a relationship instead of a man. I do have one question for everyone, does it make me shallow that I identify as bi instead of pan because I like the flag better?

I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face. I thought to myself, "Am I attracted to her (if age was not an issue.)? " I find myself having an attraction to her, but why? I didn't want to be with her. I love her look. I realized that my attraction was based on what I would like to look like. Maybe this shouldn't surprise me at this stage, but it really did. I wonder how much confusion this causes for trans people relating to orientation. The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 16, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face. I thought to myself, "Am I attracted to her (if age was not an issue.)? " I find myself having an attraction to her, but why? I didn't want to be with her. I love her look. I realized that my attraction was based on what I would like to look like. Maybe this shouldn't surprise me at this stage, but it really did. I wonder how much confusion this causes for trans people relating to orientation. The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.
[/quote/

I've been looking at pretty ladies and admiring and wanting to look like them for many years- I don't want to date them, just look like them! [emoji16][emoji16]


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Quote from: HappyMoni on December 16, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face.

I've been looking at pretty ladies and admiring and wanting to look like them for many years- I don't want to date them, just look like them! [emoji16][emoji16]

I had to Google her. She is very beautiful.
http://gigistonewoods.com/

I know what you mean about looking like them. I do too.

Quote from: GordonG on December 16, 2018, 02:43:15 PM
I had to Google her. She is very beautiful.
http://gigistonewoods.com/

I know what you mean about looking like them. I do too.

Quite right too! [emoji16][emoji16]


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Quote from: HappyMoni on December 16, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.

Yes Moni I feel this form of attraction myself and have done for decades!

There are so many different forms of attraction - romantic/physical asexual attraction, romantic/physical sexual attraction, attraction for a friend and as you say attraction with a desire to look like the other!

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 17, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Yes Moni I feel this form of attraction myself and have done for decades!

There are so many different forms of attraction - romantic/physical asexual attraction, romantic/physical sexual attraction, attraction for a friend and as you say attraction with a desire to look like the other!

Hugs

Pamela

Well stated Pamela. With all of these types of emotion, I can see the potential for confusion. I am sitting here questioning my past and wondering how many crushes on women might have been a jealousy of their looks. (Of course love is more based on personality in my opinion.) I have tended to crush on girls who have the same eye color and hair color as me. Maybe that indicates wanting to look like them rather than be with them. Gosh, sexual attraction is confusing!
If I tend to find attraction to a guy, it usually centers less on looks and more on their kindness and gentleness. I picture this as being a stereotypical woman thing.

I don't know what makes me different than many of you, but I am now asexual for many years, in fact, since my wife left, i have not touched another human in any sexual oriented manner.  This was long before i even thought of HRT or being trans!
I am one of the asexual persons leaning heavily lesbian.  I am more or less (or my body that is) feminizing for at least 10 years now, but my sexual orientation has not changed a bit.  I now consider men even less attractive hat I did a few years ago.  I have hardly any male friends, because I do not seek their company (actually never really did).  At the moment I feel that I will stay asexual even after any SRS surgery, and I hope the HRT will not do anything to my sexual orientation!
Might be that being asexual for such a long time already, and any sex related thoughts are non issues for me, helps me to not have to think much about my sexual orientation, and I can concentrate on to become a woman without all that sexual ballast to be dragged around.

I just don't know!

Quote from: Dietlind on December 17, 2018, 10:41:51 PM
I don't know what makes me different than many of you, but I am now asexual for many years, in fact, since my wife left, i have not touched another human in any sexual oriented manner.  This was long before i even thought of HRT or being trans!
I am one of the asexual persons leaning heavily lesbian.  I am more or less (or my body that is) feminizing for at least 10 years now, but my sexual orientation has not changed a bit.  I now consider men even less attractive hat I did a few years ago.  I have hardly any male friends, because I do not seek their company (actually never really did).  At the moment I feel that I will stay asexual even after any SRS surgery, and I hope the HRT will not do anything to my sexual orientation!
Might be that being asexual for such a long time already, and any sex related thoughts are non issues for me, helps me to not have to think much about my sexual orientation, and I can concentrate on to become a woman without all that sexual ballast to be dragged around.

I just don't know!

Linde,
   Being asexual or not changing orientation is  certainly simpler. You are lucky I guess. Lack of desire is something that either bothers you or it doesn't. At this point in my life, it would not be what I want. It could easily happen if I wanted it. I no longer have a lot of T to create a lot of drive. I take T because I feel like I have unfinished business in my life. In a sense it is a echo version of finding my right gender. Now I have to figure out sexual me instead of gender me. And I thought I was done. lol

Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 19, 2018, 06:04:04 AM
Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

I wrote a small book over there!

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 19, 2018, 06:04:04 AM
Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 19, 2018, 05:00:45 PM
Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

Dear Moni:
EXACTLY the correct and proper attitude when having discussions and debates with others.   It is too bad that more conversations do not develop with those rules being followed...
.
Thank you @pamelatransuk and @HappyMoni  for posting your thoughts about this seemingly missing element in many conversations..

Hugs, and well wishes,
Danielle

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 19, 2018, 05:00:45 PM
Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

I will second that.  We had a great thread earlier this month in the Sexuality section titled something like, "Did mtf HRT change your sexual identity?"  Apparently some posters one day got into squabbles.   I signed in and saw that staff locked the thread for review and possible message deletion, but it appears that the thread was completely removed!  There must have been good reasons for that and I am not questioning that of course.  They do the moderating and controlling and we should applaud them for their work.  Some posts simply are not to be tolerated.

There is no need for disrespectful comments because of different perspectives.  They are not kind or good.  Listen, and learn.  Share, and learn.  Let the moderators do the moderating.

This thread however is similar in discussion though to the other thread, so the discussion continues.

Chrissy

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 19, 2018, 05:00:45 PM
Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 19, 2018, 06:53:01 PM

I will second that.  We had a great thread earlier this month in the Sexuality section titled something like, "Did mtf HRT change your sexual identity?"  Apparently some posters one day got into squabbles.   I signed in and saw that staff locked the thread for review and possible message deletion, but it appears that the thread was completely removed!  There must have been good reasons for that and I am not questioning that of course.  They do the moderating and controlling and we should applaud them for their work.  Some posts simply are not to be tolerated.

There is no need for disrespectful comments because of different perspectives.  They are not kind or good.  Listen, and learn.  Share, and learn.  Let the moderators do the moderating.

This thread however is similar in discussion though to the other thread, so the discussion continues.

Chrissy

Indeed. Over the last couple of months we have seen misgendering, and people having their identities and use of pronouns questioned. While this is a place of learning, I feel that learning is best done by listening closely. We seldom learn anything while we are talking.

Hugs, Devlyn

Thank you Moni, Danielle, Chrissy and Devlyn for your kind words of support.

Thank you Linde. I have read with great interest your comments on the other thread (aswell as on this thread).

May I take this opportunity of wishing the 5 of you a very happy Christmas.

Pamela  xx

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 20, 2018, 06:50:10 AM
Thank you Moni, Danielle, Chrissy and Devlyn for your kind words of support.

Thank you Linde. I have read with great interest your comments on the other thread (aswell as on this thread).

May I take this opportunity of wishing the 5 of you a very happy Christmas.

Pamela  xx

Thank you, and I would want to join in, and wish everybody here a happy holiday season!

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 18, 2018, 06:05:43 PM
Now I have to figure out sexual me instead of gender me. And I thought I was done. lol

May you always have something to look forward to  ;D
Hugs...

Quote from: HappyMoni on December 18, 2018, 06:05:43 PM
Linde,
   Being asexual or not changing orientation is  certainly simpler. You are lucky I guess. Lack of desire is something that either bothers you or it doesn't. At this point in my life, it would not be what I want. It could easily happen if I wanted it. I no longer have a lot of T to create a lot of drive. I take T because I feel like I have unfinished business in my life. In a sense it is a echo version of finding my right gender. Now I have to figure out sexual me instead of gender me. And I thought I was done. lol

I was relieved that I'm not the only one who is trying to get some sort of balance to avoid having zero sex drive.   My endo gave me some guidelines and said within those limits I could adjust a bit to get in the zone (my words not hers) 

Quote from: JanePlain on December 23, 2018, 06:53:28 PM
I was relieved that I'm not the only one who is trying to get some sort of balance to avoid having zero sex drive.   My endo gave me some guidelines and said within those limits I could adjust a bit to get in the zone (my words not hers)

I wish you lots of luck, achieving that zone.  I was asexual long before I took any HRT meds, and over the time I got really comfortable with this.  I have to say that I am alone, and do not have any partner with who I would want to have sex wit.

Quote from: JanePlain on December 23, 2018, 06:53:28 PM
I was relieved that I'm not the only one who is trying to get some sort of balance to avoid having zero sex drive.   My endo gave me some guidelines and said within those limits I could adjust a bit to get in the zone (my words not hers)

Hello again

Although I am like Linde happy being asexual, I do not absolutely rule out a lesbian relationship but it is most unlikely.

I hope you are and Moni explore your sexuality successfully.

I wish you a happy Christmas and a wonderful 2019.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 24, 2018, 07:44:34 AM
Hello again

Although I am like Linde happy being asexual, I do not absolutely rule out a lesbian relationship but it is most unlikely.

I hope you are and Moni explore your sexuality successfully.

I wish you a happy Christmas and a wonderful 2019.

Hugs

Pamela

I am also not saying no to probably have a lesbian relationship at one time,  But I would first to have to find the right partner for such a relationship.  All my live I was very monogamous, and I do not see any changes in this area either.

Too bad that we live so far away (that stupid body of water in between), who knows, we might want to have fun together, who knows?

Hugs back to you!
Linde