Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What are the direct financial costs of transitioning?   Seems like many thousands of US dollars, depending on what you do.

Some items to consider:

Therapy
Medical doctors
Lab tests
Mtf HRT medicine itself
Hair removal

New sensible size and quality of wardrobe and appearance:
Clothes
Shoes
Halr and beauty
Jewelry
Accessories

Legal

Surgeries

And so on...


On top of that, maybe a financial loss of income because of lost work or lost clients; the loss of what others may have financially contributed for shared living expenses when they lived with you but who have now moved out, so you are paying it all now; and costs of potential moving/relocating.

Chrissy

Therapy
Medical doctors $ 400
Lab tests $ $0
Mtf HRT medicine itself  $4500
Hair removal  $1200

Well out of the list you gave I have spent around

New sensible size and quality of wardrobe and appearance:
Clothes  $3000  plus $1100 for work uniforms
Shoes   $500
Halr and beauty $1500
Jewelry  $ 200
Accessories $300

Legal   $ 500

Surgeries $0

Adding
* Traveling to the Doctors Gas $1000

For me:

Therapy $900
Medical doctors $0
Lab tests $400
Mtf HRT medicine itself $3500 (two years)
Hair removal $2700

New sensible size and quality of wardrobe and appearance:
Clothes $500 (lots of second hand clothes)
Shoes $140
Hair and beauty $450
Jewelry $250
Accessories $120

Legal $180

Surgeries $3500 (next month!) + $500 expenses

Gas money ~$1000

Total : $14,140 (so far!)


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I'm also counting in my expenses the amount extra I'm paying to be on a PPO plan vs an HMO plan to give me more choice of providers. It's going to be about $5k per year for two years. But I think it will be worth it for peace of mind.

So far in 2018...

Therapy $1500
HRT $500
Surgeries $30,000
Clothing - $10,000
Shoes - $1500
Makeup - $500
Traveling to Doctors - $3000
Hair Removal - $4000

Total ball park - $51,000



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Never went to a therapist since i didnt need to pay someone to tell me something I already knew.

with that said about 10,000 for voice surgery, 20,000 for facial surgery, 16000 for ba and GRS........... '

brought my own electrolysys machine out of Canada and did it myself over countless hours.............


Nothing in life worth a crap is easy!

Quote from: Katie on December 14, 2018, 05:46:45 AM
brought my own electrolysis machine out of Canada and did it myself over countless hours.............

          OUCH! I watched somebody here do this *not easy* takes practice, steady hand and a love of *pain* what if one bought a decent machine and the rest of us learned to work on each other?

Not much use for "therapists", "doctors" & "surgeries" been going on 40yrs now and I AM STILL HERE! Feel like "trans" is fast becoming the latest, greatest medical insurance industry SCAM not all of us can afford the outrageous monthly payments am thankful for good health do whatever I can without it!

$12,500 on surgery, 7 months of E patches and spironolactone at around $100/month, now I'm on E only, at $15/month. I only had two therapy appointments, $310 total. Let's not talk about clothing expenditures! :laugh:

I'll catch flack for this, but I've never appreciated the comment "I didn't need a therapist telling me who I am."
That statement makes it sound like if you need someone to tell you you have gender dysphoria, them you're not trans.

In my province, therapy was required to get letters for my GCS which was fully covered.
Therapy helped me how I would word my coming out to my ex-wife, friends and family.
Therapy helped me to deal with how I handled relationships.
Therapy helped me open doors in my mind that had been previously shut. Issues like my childhood, relationship with my parents etc. soon became clearer.

Therapy is NOT just to tell you if you're trans, or trans enough...it's to help you deal with emotions, pain, understanding.
Therapy helped set in motion what steps I needed to begin transition.
Therapy was required to go on HrT.

K, enough of my rant.
All my costs below are in Cdn$
Six sessions therapy at $100 per session.
My trachea shave: $4,200
Electrolysis: from start to finish - $7,000
$0 spent on Voice training or surgery
My GCS was free as surgeries are covered in most parts of Canada. It would have cost $20,000 if from out of country.
Mammograms and MRIs are free where I live. I've had half a dozen mammograms thus far.
Meds: very little. Had an excellent health plan and used Costco pharmacy. I'm not on meds anymore, but I recall my last Estradiol was like $3 a month.
Clothing: I'd say less than $1000 over the first five years. I was never into fashion or style. Last five years, even less. I spend more money on hunting clothing than I do on my personal wardrobe.

What did it cost me....
2017 Audi SQ5 (it was me trying not to be me) still paying on it.

$695 a month for self paid health insurance
36 months worth

$3,000 for travel, consult, gcs and stage two and BA (cost was for travel for two)
Hair removal face and down below $4,000 however, insurance paid back $3,600
Clothing way too much
Lost work as clients did not want one of them... more than I care to list.
Estrogen and Progestrone $240 for two years and counting
$2400 copay for GCS $0 for Stage two and BA
$400 in Co pays for voice training at Kaiser
Upcoming $10,000 for VFS with Dr. Thomas
What are the end results? I am content and that is priceless!

I had better be saving more money, that is for sure!

Chrissy

Mostly hard to say. Some of my costs are covered by insurance... and a few things changed since I did get a different insurance 18 months ago

Therapy: $120 per session. Initially covered by my old insurance, now not anymore. I do about one session a month these days.

HRT: Initially: $30 copay a month, no copay with new insurance

Doctor Appointments / Labs: $15 copay

Hair removal: So far about $3k ($1500 for bottom, flat fee and 2 x 750 for 15 facial sessions each.) need another 15 sessions to finish my face, so total will be $3,750

GRS: Not entirely sure yet since I am still working out details with my insurance. I do assume it will be about $5,000 - $6,000 out of pocket in the end.

Loss of work: I will be losing 25% pay in the month post surgery for recovery. That is due to the short term disability limitations. Have not lost any customers but my work cannot assign me to certain projects (Middle East projects or certain religious groups). But that has no impact.

New wardrobe: Ugh - I did not keep track of it. I was due for a new wardrobe anyways but of course, female clothing is more expensive and you actually need more variations. I also need business outfits. I can make an educated guess but I don't want to :D These days I try to limit myself to about $250 per months on new wardrobe while I am still building up my portfolio. I am at a point where I can go a few months without buying anything new.

I haven't been keeping track, so these are guesstimates only.  Items with '*' are costs after partial rebate from insurance.

Therapy: $500*
Hair removal: $5800*
HRT: $1200*
Gas to Doctor and support group: $1500
Doctor: $0
Lab: $0
GRS: $0
Trachea shave: <not sure yet>
Wardrobe: $5000
Voice training: $400

Over $45K (USD)

I think I will skip a vacation to save some more money!

Wow.  Thanks for sharing.


Chrissy

60,000 miles / 96,000 km.

2014-17, more than 100 visits to an electrologist in Seattle (10 miles each way) and 20 laser visits (5 miles each way). 
SEA>PHX          10/2017  GCS evaluation, Scottsdale Arizona
SEA>BOS          10/2017  FFS evaluation, Boston Massachusetts
SEA>LHR>->-bleeped-<-  11/2017  FFS evaluation, Marbella Spain
SEA>PHX           01/2018  GCS, Scottsdale Arizona
SEA>ICN           03/2018  VFS, Seoul Korea
SEA>PHX           04/2018  GCS followup, Scottsdale Arizona
SEA>PHX           05/2018  GCS followup, Scottsdale Arizona
SEA>LHR>->-bleeped-<-   05/2018  FFS, Marbella Spain
SEA>PHX           07/2018  GCS-2 & BA, Scottsdale Arizona

That isn't counting last week's trip to Marbella since that wasn't medically necessary - but had a quick checkup while there.

And I should probably add local trips for 9 blood tests in 18 months, and several dozen appointments with medical practitioners (endocrinologist, physician, therapist, psychologist, speech therapist).

I posted a Haiku last summer that included:

     who is it that said
     the best things in life are free
     did not see my bills

The rest of the Haiku is here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,225490.msg2039949.html).

How much you spend really depends on how much surgery you need and where you live.

For those of us who transition as a teen or early 20's, therapy, hormones and GCS should be sufficient. For the older girls, add to this FFS, hair removal from the face and scalp transplants.

These costs can be minimized by either living in a country that supports transition services through national health insurance or in the US, by going to work for an employer who offers health insurance that will cover transition.

For an older transitioner as myself, my costs are nearing $70,000 and after all is said and done, it will be close to $100,000. This sounds like a lot and it is, but it seems to be equally divided between GCS, FFS, hair removal and transplants and finally complicated legal fees.

It is not inexpensive to transition, that's for sure.

Chrissy

It took me a while to add up everything, and some of these are estimates. I am only showing out-of-pocket expenses, and I am not including any travel expenses. I will have more surgical expenses in April as well...

$14.600   Laser hair removal (face, neck, back. stomach, legs)
  7,000   Electrolysis (face, neck, chest, south pole... so far...)
    300   Medical check-ups
    540   Therapy
    520   HRT
    160   Lab work
    200   Legal
   5000   Clothes
    600   Shoes
    800   Hair and beauty
   1000   Jewelry (includes a new wedding ring)
    200   Accessories
   3400   Trachea Shave
   2500   GCS deposit

$36,820   Total

Quote from: Kiera on December 14, 2018, 06:03:47 AM
          OUCH! I watched somebody here do this *not easy* takes practice, steady hand and a love of *pain* what if one bought a decent machine and the rest of us learned to work on each other?

Not much use for "therapists", "doctors" & "surgeries" been going on 40yrs now and I AM STILL HERE! Feel like "trans" is fast becoming the latest, greatest medical insurance industry SCAM not all of us can afford the outrageous monthly payments am thankful for good health do whatever I can without it!

There's a school for that costs about 10k for training and license.

Mental health is just as important as physical health.  So,yes, while the costs are high, for some the benefits are well worth the costs.  And therapy is essential for determining whether you really need to go through all the pain and suffering to transition.

Therapy is NOT essential to going through transition. Within the passages of the DSM you will see a statement saying something like "some people dont need therapy".  THat is right out of the big book!!!!!!!!!!!

Therapy might be helpful for a LOT of people but as I said earlier I didnt need to pay someone to tell me something I already knew..............

My mistake.  I should have explained my line of thinking better.

I think many people could use someone who will suggest practical options for dealing with your dysphoria.  And talk about practical details like how to best navigate the way to pay or have the insurance company pay for it.  Discuss the risks involved with the different procedures and how useful they are in achieving your end goal.

I think this is like being tossed into a foreign country.  It is lot easier if you have a guide who knows the locals and can tell you the dangers to watch out for.

What were the direct costs to me of transition? I had to give up my acute suffering of dysphoria. I was forced to surrender toxic relationships that I used to chain myself to suffering. I gave up shaving my face. I had to stop pretending to be one of the guys. I had to give up squelching my emotions. I had to let go of my death wish and surrender suicidal depression.

It costs money to live life and take care of ourselves and our loved ones. That's the bargain we made when we came into this life. The real question is how do we choose to invest our financial resources? Do we invest in satisfying others who may be more concerned with their own comfort than with ours? Or do we invest our resources in moving steadily towards harmony within our own skins? In the long game, living life costs us everything we have to pay. Everything. Invest wisely.

Love you, Miharu

I haven´t really counted how much this has costs, but some estimation. In Euros, which is about the same as in Dollars.

SRS: 10 000€ (including flights, hotel and living)
Laser/electrolysis for face/genitals: 2 500€ (few times more and I´m done)
ID/Passport/Documentation/Certificates/Name & Birth certtificate change/etc etc: 500 €
Hormones: 80€ per month at first, now 30€ per month
Labs, taken few times: 500€
Doctor fees: 500€
Statement for SRS: 500€
Clothes: 1000€ (rough estimation)
Everything else for facial/skin care, hair, beauty etc etc: 1000€ (rough estimation)

Coming expenses:

BA: 5000€ (including flights, hotel and living)

And then I´m finally done :) I wont be needing FFS because I really don´t know what I would want to be done. Also every friend is telling, that dont go and have FFS. Probably few wrinkles will be ironed, perhaps botox here and there, but nothing major :)

Yeah, costs a lot, but wouldnt change a thing :)

Those costs are accumulated within a year mostly. Some laser I had previously years ago as well as hormones and one time lab.

Thank you all for sharing the costs of transitioning.

It can be more than initially expected by me, that is for sure.


Chrissy

Despite the cost in money, time, emotions, physical discomfort, friends, and relationships, being able to live as your true self, being able to finally become the person you were meant to be, is priceless.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Let me explain a little bit.  I served in the US Military for over 26 years and am now retired. Now I receive all of my medical care from the VA (Veterans Affairs) for free.  The VA will cover everything EXCEPT the actual surgery. So I am very blessed in this regard.  :)

For me:

Therapy $Free
Medical doctors $Free
Lab tests $Free
Mtf HRT medicine itself $Free
Hair removal $3800 starting soon
Speech Pathologist  $Free
Prosthetics  (breast/wigs)  $Free
Dietician $Free

New sensible size and quality of wardrobe and appearance:
Clothes $300 so far
Shoes $200 so far
Hair and beauty $450
Jewelry $0
Accessories $0

Legal $Free

Surgeries $ ? TBD


Total : $Math

It's been a while for me so my memory on the costs are hazy but I'll try.

$22,000 for GCS

$2,000 for a one bedroom apartment with a sofa bed in the living area for my caretaker (friends and my mom took turns) for two weeks. The apartment was only a few miles away from the hospital and it had a emergency room in it in case of complications during recovery.

$150 per appointment for therapy starts out once a week and near the end was down to twice a month for about a year and a half.

$200 per appointment with my endrocronologist starting once a month and eventually down to bi-yearly.

$45 for 90 days of estrodile.

$100 per session for voice training once a week for roughly two years. This price was discounted because I worked for GWU and was working with students.

Quote from: Katie on December 25, 2018, 05:24:51 AM
Therapy is NOT essential to going through transition. Within the passages of the DSM you will see a statement saying something like "some people dont need therapy".  THat is right out of the big book!!!!!!!!!!!

Therapy might be helpful for a LOT of people but as I said earlier I didnt need to pay someone to tell me something I already knew..............

You know what, I didn't need someone to tell me what I knew either.. What I had to do was see a therapist in order to meet legal requirements for transition in my jurisdiction. The DSM is not the leading document for treating trans people - that's the WPATH Standards of Care and it has some glaring issues.

Quote from: PurplePelican on January 02, 2019, 12:49:46 PM
You know what, I didn't need someone to tell me what I knew either.. What I had to do was see a therapist in order to meet legal requirements for transition in my jurisdiction. The DSM is not the leading document for treating trans people - that's the WPATH Standards of Care and it has some glaring issues.

Correct, and the WPATH guidelines don't require therapy, they require an assessment that you're capable of making informed decisions and don't have underlying mental health issues.

I really did not follow up very well on my costs.  I might be a little lower than most, because I do not need all the hair removal (except my thinly growing beard), and structural changes of my face.  I pay out of pocket for my psychologist ($300/month), and for the special endocrinologist ($200 per session).  I pay co-pays for estrogen.
I will see an urologist on Friday, and I hope that I can convince him that an orchidektomie is a medical indicated necessity for me, and would thus paid for by my health insurance.

As of currently, my Health insurance would pay most of the cost for SRS, as long as it is done in Florida .

I am self funded. Nice for the lack of grief and privacy factor, but obviously not an option for everyone, I won't itemize here for privacy reasons but all in,  I am very close to  the 100k mark. That doesn't include clothing, makeup, downtime, pain or any of the nonsense you can't hang a price tag on like lost (false) friendships. I justify all this with the fact that I would otherwise be dead. I am finally living my truth and managed to unload some dead weight that pretended to call themselves my friends.  A high price to take the trash out but 100k was cheap from that perspective ;D.

Quote from: Devlyn on January 02, 2019, 01:01:14 PM
Correct, and the WPATH guidelines don't require therapy, they require an assessment that you're capable of making informed decisions and don't have underlying mental health issues.

Where did I say therapy was required? Oh, that's right, I didn't.

Where did I say you said it was? I was agreeing with you. Apparently that happens so infrequently that you can't recognise it.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Wow! I am stunned by how much some of you guys have to pay.

And since many of you live in the US I'm very curious about how things work out there.

These health insurances that your workplace may provide. Are they usual? Do most workplaces provide these or is it only for the lucky ones? How much does a insurance usually provide?

Hugs! :)

Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 02, 2019, 03:23:14 PM
Wow! I am stunned by how much some of you guys have to pay.

And since many of you live in the US I'm very curious about how things work out there.

These health insurances that your workplace may provide. Are they usual? Do most workplaces provide these or is it only for the lucky ones? How much does a insurance usually provide?

Hugs! :)

I have to buy my own insurance because Obama is our saviour and gave insurance to everyone. Unless you're a single, white, working guy. Then you get nothing. So my insurance costs $720 per month just to have, and if I use it, I pay the first $7,500 before it kicks in and starts paying anything. That's why I made sure everything took place in one calendar year.

Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 02, 2019, 03:23:14 PM
Wow! I am stunned by how much some of you guys have to pay.

And since many of you live in the US I'm very curious about how things work out there.

These health insurances that your workplace may provide. Are they usual? Do most workplaces provide these or is it only for the lucky ones? How much does a insurance usually provide?

Hugs! :)

For the most case, larger employers pay a large amount for health insurance.  My employer paid for a so called "Cadillac"  plan, and my health insurance cost was about half of what it as in Germany.
My wife was on a governmental plan (she taught at a university), and so are my son and my daughter in law.  They hardly pay anything out of their pocket.
Most smaller employers have no or only minimal health insurance plans, and those people have to buy insurance in the market.  Most of who I know, who have to do this, are, unlike Devlyn, are very happy that Obama gave them insurance!

I am retired, and I am insured with the governmental run Health care e insurance for over 65 year old, called Medicare.  I have additional insurance, a Medicare advantage Plan with prescription benefits, which is free for me (Florida is good to older people)

My cost is about $150 a month with $10 copay for any doctor visit and $40 for a visit at a specialist.  All my medication iss free as long as I get it by mail and it is generics.

Very poor people have a free?? governmental plan called Medicaid.

Many Insurance Companies refuse to cover trans related issues or make you jump through so many hoops and cue up for so long and so often that they are essentially and effectively nonexistent. Others, like Kaiser Permanente in the State of California are quite accomodating but have limited skilled personnel for our particular needs. America has become a third world backwater in medical care thanks to corporate greed. The Obamacare that Devlyn mentioned is actually a catastrophic care plan since the deductibles are so ridiculously high. I live in a State where if you are a homeowner, your home could be taken from you to cover medical bills. So the $890.00 dollars I pay per month wth my 7500.00 dollar deductible is effectively there to protect my home from seizure should I have a catastrophic health issue. Our healthcare system is broken, unlike your Swedish model. Healthcare for profit is stone cold evil. That was an opinion,  by the way😁.

Quote from: Devlyn on January 02, 2019, 03:33:34 PM
I have to buy my own insurance because Obama is our saviour and gave insurance to everyone. Unless you're a single, white, working guy. Then you get nothing. So my insurance costs $720 per month just to have, and if I use it, I pay the first $7,500 before it kicks in and starts paying anything. That's why I made sure everything took place in one calendar year.

My insurance had a similar cost and deductible, and I was grateful to get it.  My pre-existing medical conditions (mostly due to being over 55), were sufficient to cause me to be denied for insurance in 2010.  I did qualify under the Affordable Care Act, and was also qualified for subsidies that reduced my net cost per month considerably due to my low income.

Some of us made it work.  It ain't great.  I prefer true universal insurance, even if it does impact profitability of some financial multinationals.  So it goes...

Very interesting to read your perspectives on things. I have no experience of the American model. I have just heard that there is some hot political debate going on between your two partys. And I don't want to get involved in American party politics.

But it sounds like the system is quite beneficial for some and tougher for others.

In order to tell my financial cost for transition I have to explain how our medical system works in Sweden.

Here all health care are government founded. The health care is provided by the government though there are some private clinics and a private hospital, that I know of. But they have a deal with the government so they function in the same way as the government runed and they cost the same.

There is a principal fee when you make any health care visit, it varies from around 11 to around 44 dollars.
There is a lot of exceptions from this fee though.

There is a roof (high costs protection) for ones medical costs in a 12 month period. The roof is around 122 dollars. When you hit that roof, you are free of charge for a 12 month period.

Then we have medicines. There is a high cost protection here as well. But here its more complex and works like a discount stair. The government subsides prescription drugs until you reach a roof. Then its free of charge for a 12 month period. The higher your costs are the higher the percentage of the government subsidies. The roof for prescription medicines are around 256 dollars.

Both of these system works automatically through computers. So I do not have to do anything to make sure things work and it works very well. We are also able to get our travels to and home from medical treatment paid by the state. Of curse they just pay for the cheapest possible way of travel. This system is not automatic and I have not bothered to use it. I don't feel that I need it and I see no need of robbing the state of money.

So I have reached the roof for health care since a while ago so I have paid around 122 dollars for this.
I have paid 220 dollars for prescript medicines so far.
I have prescription for Triptorelin (gnrh analog), Estrogen and Sertraline (antidepressant).

A shot of triptorelin costs 299 dollars but in the drugstore I just had to pay 125 for it, the government subsidized the rest. After I have bought the injection a nurse helt me to inject it at my local health center, free of charge.
I pay around 68 dollars for my estrogen patches.
And last around 20 dollars for Sertraline.

So around 342 dollars is what I have paid so far.

What do I get?
So far I have done fertility-preserving treatment (freezing), I have started hrt and laser hair removal.
I will have a trach shave surgery this spring and meet a speech therapist in the end of February.
Genital surgery are still a bit away in the future.

In order to revive government funded transition treatment in Sweden you need a diagnosis. Because of that before you are able to begin treatment you need to be examined by a medical team at one of our gender identity clinics. That medical assessment can take between 4 months up to a couple of years depending on each case. Mine took around 4 months.
The waiting lines for ones first appointment are absurdly long though. Some clinics even have 16 months or more before they are able to receive you. I had to wait around one year.

We of curse have problems in our system as well but I have to confess that it feels quite well to not have to worry about financial facts when it comes to my transition. At lest not so far. I have had some thoughts about FFS witch they don't provide in Sweden or making my GCS abroad. But I'm not sure yet.

Hugs! :)

Another example of the US system.  I am just back from a trans gender specific endocrinologist, the star in that field in South West Florida.  he does not accept my insurances, and i had to pay out of pocket.  I was there for about an hour and had to pay $402.00.  Now I have to try to convince my insurance to pay me for a part of that bill. (probably 60% of it).  That means, if you have a low income, and want to get transgender (or other specialized) services, you will not get them, because you do not have the money available.

That's what is wrong with the US system, if you have money, you get top class health services (in my opinion, the best in the world - I worked in the system for 36 years), if you don't, you have to see how you limp along!

Obama wanted a national health care system the way most European countries have, but the opposing party blocked everything, and is still trying to derail the bits that are left!

Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 03, 2019, 01:08:42 PM
Very interesting to read your perspectives on things. I have no experience of the American model. I have just heard that there is some hot political debate going on between your two partys. And I don't want to get involved in American party politics.

But it sounds like the system is quite beneficial for some and tougher for others.

In order to tell my financial cost for transition I have to explain how our medical system works in Sweden.

Here all health care are government founded. The health care is provided by the government though there are some private clinics and a private hospital, that I know of. But they have a deal with the government so they function in the same way as the government runed and they cost the same.

There is a principal fee when you make any health care visit, it varies from around 11 to around 44 dollars.
There is a lot of exceptions from this fee though.

There is a roof (high costs protection) for ones medical costs in a 12 month period. The roof is around 122 dollars. When you hit that roof, you are free of charge for a 12 month period.

Then we have medicines. There is a high cost protection here as well. But here its more complex and works like a discount stair. The government subsides prescription drugs until you reach a roof. Then its free of charge for a 12 month period. The higher your costs are the higher the percentage of the government subsidies. The roof for prescription medicines are around 256 dollars.

Both of these system works automatically through computers. So I do not have to do anything to make sure things work and it works very well. We are also able to get our travels to and home from medical treatment paid by the state. Of curse they just pay for the cheapest possible way of travel. This system is not automatic and I have not bothered to use it. I don't feel that I need it and I see no need of robbing the state of money.

So I have reached the roof for health care since a while ago so I have paid around 122 dollars for this.
I have paid 220 dollars for prescript medicines so far.
I have prescription for Triptorelin (gnrh analog), Estrogen and Sertraline (antidepressant).

A shot of triptorelin costs 299 dollars but in the drugstore I just had to pay 125 for it, the government subsidized the rest. After I have bought the injection a nurse helt me to inject it at my local health center, free of charge.
I pay around 68 dollars for my estrogen patches.
And last around 20 dollars for Sertraline.

So around 342 dollars is what I have paid so far.

What do I get?
So far I have done fertility-preserving treatment (freezing), I have started hrt and laser hair removal.
I will have a trach shave surgery this spring and meet a speech therapist in the end of February.
Genital surgery are still a bit away in the future.

In order to revive government funded transition treatment in Sweden you need a diagnosis. Because of that before you are able to begin treatment you need to be examined by a medical team at one of our gender identity clinics. That medical assessment can take between 4 months up to a couple of years depending on each case. Mine took around 4 months.
The waiting lines for ones first appointment are absurdly long though. Some clinics even have 16 months or more before they are able to receive you. I had to wait around one year.

We of curse have problems in our system as well but I have to confess that it feels quite well to not have to worry about financial facts when it comes to my transition. At lest not so far. I have had some thoughts about FFS witch they don't provide in Sweden or making my GCS abroad. But I'm not sure yet.

Hugs! :)

Time is the fire in which we burn. I am not detracting from your medical system but in all things anywhere a balance between quality, speed and how fast it is has to be struck. In your case it sounds like inexpensive and high quality was the choice at the expense of time.

In my case it was quality and as little time as possible at the cost of working a second job (programming in DC, Ashburn and remotely for roughly six months) in order to cover the expenses out of pocket without incurring debt.

The American system is very much broken but at the same time if you have the money there is little to no waiting.

Quote from: Dietlind on January 03, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Another example of the US system.  I am just back from a trans gender specific endocrinologist, the star in that field in South West Florida.  he does not accept my insurances, and i had to pay out of pocket.  I was there for about an hour and had to pay $402.00.  Now I have to try to convince my insurance to pay me for a part of that bill. (probably 60% of it).  That means, if you have a low income, and want to get transgender (or other specialized) services, you will not get them, because you do not have the money available.

That's what is wrong with the US system, if you have money, you get top class health services (in my opinion, the best in the world - I worked in the system for 36 years), if you don't, you have to see how you limp along!

Obama wanted a national health care system the way most European countries have, but the opposing party blocked everything, and is still trying to derail the bits that are left!

I'm very impressed by the speed and quality of the American system. Here in Sweden the ordinary person on the street thinks that the American health system is an evil system. That one should not be able to make money on health care. But since I also know about the big big problems in our system I must admit I'm a bit curious on alternative ways. I think we at least should consider allowing private options to take som load of our government system. The idea about equality is very strong here. It's rooted deep.

But since you have the kind of system that you have, I guess most people must profit from it. But, hypothetically, would your system refuse health care to anyone if they would be so sick they may die and not have an insurance?

Quote from: NatalieRene on January 03, 2019, 01:32:28 PM
Time is the fire in which we burn. I am not detracting from your medical system but in all things anywhere a balance between quality, speed and how fast it is has to be struck. In your case it sounds like inexpensive and high quality was the choice at the expense of time.

In my case it was quality and as little time as possible at the cost of working a second job (programming in DC, Ashburn and remotely for roughly six months) in order to cover the expenses out of pocket without incurring debt.

The American system is very much broken but at the same time if you have the money there is little to no waiting.

I agree with you. Our system is practical free, the costs are just symbolic sums. I would say that the quality is actually very good, the standard is usually quite high. The government likes to burn money on quality medicines and stuff. The doctors and nurses treat you as a patient very well. They have a lot of understanding about trans issues. But the waiting time is absurd.

The waiting time have gone up quite dramatically the last 5-7 years. Actually extremely high. Every year the number of people who seeks gender affirming care have dubbled since 2013. And the health care budget was not prepared for this and is still lagging. I don't know if they will be able to get things reasonable again. The Swedish health care system is under severe pressure at the moment. But that's Swedish politics and that is quite different from US.

Quotesounds like the system is quite beneficial for some and tougher for others

there is nothing egalitarian about anything in the United States. It is all about the $$$$.  Course, if you have                                $$$$, this is a wonderland.

Quote from: luckygirl on January 03, 2019, 03:10:33 PM

there is nothing egalitarian about anything in the United States. It is all about the $$$$.  Course, if you have                                $$$$, this is a wonderland.

Being equal doesn't mean everyone has the same things. I think you are confusing the currency of trade in the realm for rights of the citizens. I also think we should avoid politics on this site. ;D

Quote from: NatalieRene on January 03, 2019, 03:37:34 PM
Being equal doesn't mean everyone has the same things. I think you are confusing the currency of trade in the realm for rights of the citizens. I also think we should avoid politics on this site. ;D

rights of the citizens? you're kidding right? there is a monster difference between dejure and defacto laws and their implementation.  That was an opinion, By the by. There was nothing political mentioned there. I won't comment again on this subject because I don't like hijacking threads.

@Jenny1969  @Swedishgirl96

You both wrote that your care has been or will be free.  Nothing is free.  You served in the military and earned those benefits Jenny.  And I understand that healthcare is paid for in Sweden because the taxes are high enough to cover it.   

We do seem to have a wonky system of healthcare in the US, so we're left to work with what we have.   :(

There seems to be a lot of costs for most people, especially so if one completes surgeries.


Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 03, 2019, 05:04:59 PM
There seems to be a lot of costs for most people, especially so if one completes surgeries.

Chrissy

Yes... and it's sad, that because of the costs a lot of people have no access to these surgeries.

The mtf HRT medicine itself may be the least expensive item, not counting the associated physician and lab fees.

If someone knows, what is the cost for the twice a week E patches for 30 or 90 days?
Then the costs for the E generic one a day tablets for 30 days or 90 days?

For a 30 day box of E patches to be used for 82 hours (1/2 week) each, do they provide eight or nine of these patches in a 30 day supply container?  My guess is that a 30 day supply is actually a 28 day supply.  So you would really need about 13 monthly boxes each year, not twelve.

I am not putting doses in above medicine lists because I think we are not to mention doses.

Chrissy

Often, the cost of medicine is a function of the number of doses.  This is why people will cut pills in half, to cut the effective out of pocket cost of a medicine in half.  Or, put another way, the 40 mg pills cost no more than the 20 mg pills when covered by insurance.

Hi,

I transitioned four years ago.  I had FFS, GCS, BA, electrolysis, hair transplant..  Then add in psych, endo, physicals, hrt... With great insurance, just over $28,000. 

Jen

Quote from: JudiBlueEyes on January 03, 2019, 05:02:07 PM
@Jenny1969  @Swedishgirl96

You both wrote that your care has been or will be free.  Nothing is free.  You served in the military and earned those benefits Jenny.  And I understand that healthcare is paid for in Sweden because the taxes are high enough to cover it.   

We do seem to have a wonky system of healthcare in the US, so we're left to work with what we have.   :(

@Judi

Yes you are correct.   I should have worded that a little better. 

Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 03, 2019, 02:13:08 PM
I'm very impressed by the speed and quality of the American system. Here in Sweden the ordinary person on the street thinks that the American health system is an evil system. That one should not be able to make money on health care.

So what do those Swedish people think a system, can obtain qualified workers, if they do not get paid well?
I wen tot the university for about 10 years, an did earn hardly any money during this time!  You bet that I wanted to make money once I was out working in health care, and I wanted to pay into a pension fund, too.  This means, I wanted to make a decent profit on my education and my work.  And I paid back by making some important inventions in the field (anybody, who undergoes major surgery, globally, will have it done by utilizing some developments I made in this field).
Which means, those people who think one should not make a profit in health care, are very willing to benefit from my work, but are not willing to compensate me for this?

Quote from: Dietlind on January 03, 2019, 10:45:38 PM
So what do those Swedish people think a system, can obtain qualified workers, if they do not get paid well?
I wen tot the university for about 10 years, an did earn hardly any money during this time!  You bet that I wanted to make money once I was out working in health care, and I wanted to pay into a pension fund, too.  This means, I wanted to make a decent profit on my education and my work.  And I paid back by making some important inventions in the field (anybody, who undergoes major surgery, globally, will have it done by utilizing some developments I made in this field).
Which means, those people who think one should not make a profit in health care, are very willing to benefit from my work, but are not willing to compensate me for this?

I don't think anyone wouldn't want Doctor's and Nurses and PA,s and LNs or LVNs to be compensated well for their hard work. Insurance Companies? Pharmaceutical Companies? Some Hospitals? Well that's another kettle of fish and actually driving quality people from the field. Stockholder's in Insurance companies shouldn't decide who gets what treatment and who lives or dies. I could go on here ad infinitum, but my point is not that hard workers in the field shouldn't be paid well. When I transitioned, my Insurance Company had no interest in helping and there was a specific  point of noting that no gender change procedures would be sponsored. The U.S. system in my opinion, borders on the criminal.

Quote from: luckygirl on January 03, 2019, 11:01:50 PM
The U.S. system in my opinion, borders on the criminal.

Believe me, most providers feel the same as you do, it is frustrating to have the absolutely best solution available, but being not allowed to apply it, because of cost restrictions by the insurance companies.
Having lived about 1/2 of my life in Europe, I would take their system at any time (France seems to have the best system in place).  I am not that much for a single payer system, because that removes the incentives for providers and creates very long waiting times.  There is no reason to have a health competition between providers, but keep the cost for services under tight control. And we should have a non profit insurance system in competition with a for profit one (like in Germany), and that seems to function pretty well!

Quote from: JudiBlueEyes on January 03, 2019, 05:02:07 PM
And I understand that healthcare is paid for in Sweden because the taxes are high enough to cover it.   

Absolutely. That is how it works. We pay high taxes. A lot more than you do in the US.

Quote from: Dietlind on January 03, 2019, 10:45:38 PM
So what do those Swedish people think a system, can obtain qualified workers, if they do not get paid well?
I wen tot the university for about 10 years, an did earn hardly any money during this time!  You bet that I wanted to make money once I was out working in health care, and I wanted to pay into a pension fund, too.  This means, I wanted to make a decent profit on my education and my work.  And I paid back by making some important inventions in the field (anybody, who undergoes major surgery, globally, will have it done by utilizing some developments I made in this field).
Which means, those people who think one should not make a profit in health care, are very willing to benefit from my work, but are not willing to compensate me for this?

I have no problem with what you are saying. I understand your point of view and I agree with you. You should be able to make money out of hard work. But Sweden is a country were people don't like hierarchies, we prefer a flat organization. And Sweden is govern by socialist ideas. That's just the way things are here. It part of the consensus, no big debate at all.
I think that the average swede would see no problem with you having an high income but they would want you to "take responsibility" and pay high taxes. People here se no conflict between getting a good education to make a lot of money and then paying taxes for it.
But that's politics.

Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 04, 2019, 03:29:38 PM
Absolutely. That is how it works. We pay high taxes. A lot more than you do in the US.
I have no problem with what you are saying. I understand your point of view and I agree with you. You should be able to make money out of hard work. But Sweden is a country were people don't like hierarchies, we prefer a flat organization. And Sweden is govern by socialist ideas. That's just the way things are here. It part of the consensus, no big debate at all.
I think that the average swede would see no problem with you having an high income but they would want you to "take responsibility" and pay high taxes. People here se no conflict between getting a good education to make a lot of money and then paying taxes for it.
But that's politics.

As long as the return from the taxes is there it is worth it.

Total cost for me up through my SRS?  Hmmm, it's been a while (I had my SRS back in 2003).  Lemme think:

1.  Electrolysis (laser was just coming on the scene back when I started transitioning in late 1998) - around $35,000 (I had very little body hair, but a ridiculous amount of facial hair [I used to shave myself raw at 4:30 am for work, and I'd have 5 o-clock shadow by 9 am - yeesh!).

2.  Meds  & doctor's visits (luckily once I came out in work in mid 1999, my health insurance covered meds and doctor's visits) = about $2000

3.  Clothes - about $2000 (once I got my wardrobe settled to my satisfaction, I tried to go easy on buying clothes [to have addtional money towards SRS]).

4.  SRS, Rhinoplasty, and Trach. Shave - $14,000 (I was one of Suporn's last "lower priced surgeries" - in 2004, he raised rates by like 20 or 30%).  F.Y.I. - as was typical back then, my employer provided health insurance did NOT cover the cost of this item (I remember reading our health insurance policy and it had a specific rider in it saying that "sexual transformation surgery" would NOT be covered [which was confirmed by that bastard of an HR director I had to deal with at the time -  he was the one who gave me nothing but grief with regards to bathroom issues]).

Total cost out of pocket for me, including SRS - about $53,000.

There seems to be a wide range of out of pocket costs, depending on what is done and the availability of non-exclusionary insurance or government subsidized medicine, electrolysis, therapy, and surgery.  Wardrobe and lifestyle changes (nails, hair, etc.) adds to that total.  I have noticed at the higher ranges, the totals do easily go into five and even low six figures for the self-pay for everything for total transitioning costs. 

I can see that these costs can pose quite a challenge to many, perhaps their transitions will be on a slower schedule, or will not include some surgeries.

Save up for the future.   :)

Chrissy

ANY UPDATES?

Please don't let any of these numbers scare you. Transitioning can be expensive, but not all of us have the same needs. Also, insurance coverage varies quite a bit. Several of the surgeries I paid for out-of-pocket are now covered, unfortunately it wasn't retroactive.

Here are some of my surgical expenses which were not covered by insurance:

$  3,400    Trachea Shave
$  7,369    Breast Augmentation (Coverage was added AFTER my procedure)
$ 18,517    Brow Contouring, Lip Augmentation, Scalp Advancement
$ 16,216    Genioplasty (chin) and Mandibular (jaw) Contouring
$ 23,923    Facelift
$  2,500    Lip augmentation Revision
$ 15,000    Hair restoration
$ 86,925    Total Surgery Costs (out-of-pocket)


Laser and electrolysis costs can also add up. Laser hair removal on my face wasn't very effective, but it worked great on body hair. These are my estimated costs:

$ 36,000    Electrolysis (Estimated over 600hrs @ $60/hr -- ongoing)
$  5,400    Laser Hair Removal (Face)
$  5,000    Laser Hair Removal (Back)
$  3,400    Laser Hair Removal (Legs)
$  2,800    Laser Hair Removal (Arms)
$    800    Laser Hair Removal (Stomach)
$ 53,400   Total Hair Removal Costs  (out-of-pocket)

Love always -- Jessica Rose