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Unless we think as mtfs that we will not ever pass well, is it better than not to wait, let's say, another year or two or more, to see if we will be able to pass nearly all the time before going almost completely or completely full-time?  I realize that bottom surgery does require, in most countries, at least a year of living full-time, but living full-time does seem reasonable to do before having those kinds of surgeries.


Chrissy

 My hope is that some day there won't be so many humps to being oneself. Gatekeeping or society's rules.


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It depends on your social work/circle, which is heavily influenced by where you live.  If you are accepted by your community does it really matter whether you pass or not?  In the USA people move all the time to better opportunities.

Hello again Chrissy

My view is that one should go fulltime when one feels the time is right. I am 10 months HRT and 6 months Body Hair Removal. When I am satisfied with my appearance resulting from HRT and BHR, I shall go fulltime which certainly will be in 2019.


Hello again Gertrude

I agree entirely


Hugs to all

Pamela

Chrissy,
   It is such an individual thing of course. Passing is not all about your look though. It is also about your actions and mannerisms. I learned a lot during that period of time when I knew I didn't pass. I didn't enjoy it much as I didn't like sitting in school on a beautiful day, but it is what I needed. I don't judge anyone for their views on passing. I have always wanted to, probably because of the time I grew up in. (Highly binary) I have strong memories of sitting in my car waiting to go to electrolysis, nervous and scared to be out in public. It got me to where I am. Hard to believe its been two and a half years since I have worn guy clothes. I really think getting as much experience as one can is a good thing. Many want to be a woman (or man) in a mental image they have. Getting a dose of really being out there gives us so much more info. (Of course keeping in mind safety.) Full time depends on your individual life, work, relationships, etc,.
Moni

Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 15, 2018, 09:19:40 AM
Hello again Chrissy

My view is that one should go fulltime when one feels the time is right. I am 10 months HRT and 6 months Body Hair Removal. When I am satisfied with my appearance resulting from HRT and BHR, I shall go fulltime which certainly will be in 2019.


Hello again Gertrude

I agree entirely


Hugs to all

Pamela

Pamela,

That makes sense, start when you think you are ready.  That seems to apply even if you think you will never pass well.   No set rules as to when to start going full-time, just start full-time when you think that you are ready.

For others who think that they will eventually pass well, it just seems to me that it makes some sense to wait to start full-time until you appear to have male fail a lot.  Many good experiences (and learning from the bad experiences) of being out dressed as, behaving as, and sounding as a woman, until you seem to be fitting in well in public - seems to be crucial, if not at least confidence building, and also it helps you (in theory) to be more resistant to the ridicule we sometimes may receive (ugh, it is tough to hear how being trans is awful.)

To me, it also seems to make sense to be comfortable living full-time for awhile before the bottom surgery, simply because that surgery is not reversible.

Perhaps I am thinking too deeply about this though.


Gertrude: 

Some rules or mandates should just be guidelines.  We just need to be sure ourselves that we are personally doing the right thing for us as individuals.  Very sure about the surgeries being right!  :)


Chrissy

I think for me when I "male failed" it clicked for me I'm good to go. It's also something I built up to for almost 2 years... Crossdressing for a while only at night, then during the day.. What I wore, how I felt, where I went and who I interacted with.. All of these things matter and only the person can decide if it's to their satisfaction.
For me, I wasn't satisfied to elicit people to see me as a woman by my clothes, makeup, hair, accessories... Of course, I slowly (again, after previously crossdressing) I slowly started to change up my presentation. I only do it when I want and yes, I do tend to be aware of how others interact and treat me as I change things... I see transitioning as an experiment.. The world is our laboratory in a very strange way...

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I had planned to wait until I had been on HRT for a full year, but 10 months in Jessica told me she didn't want to wait any longer. My hair was still a bit shorter than I wanted, I had not seen a voice therapist (and I still haven't), my wardrobe was sparse, I had never used makeup, I had never gone out in public as a woman, but I just knew it was time. I worked furiously to get my name change and new driver's license as quickly as I could, and I went full time just shy of 11 months after starting HRT. I know I would have been more readily accepted if I had waited longer, but I simply could not hide any more.

A benefit of going full-time quickly is that it reduces your overall wait time for GCS if you are considering that route. Since WPATH requires 1 year RLE for GCS, the sooner you start, the sooner you will fulfill the requirement.

I went full time about 10 months on hrt, I was maybe 85% passable, but I just couldn't take it anymore. I work in a very accepting environment so it was a little scary being out in the world. I think the best answer is whenever you're ready/can't hold it back anymore.

I don't think I meet any of the "standards"for passing now, let alone when I went full time...I went full time when I realised that I could get relief from my GD by doing that...So I  did it about 12 months after starting HRT and about 6months earlier than I had planned.

For me I realised that "passing standard" was not a realistic option and no amount of surgery or pills would ever change that...Once I removed "passing" as the bench mark I had far less stress and worry over it.

However what I am able to do is present myself (the whole package)place enough doubt in peoples minds that they do not misgender me and whilst it is certainly not the the same, it was an acceptable compromise. Bearing in mind that I am 55 and as I get older the more androgynous I look. One of the few advantages of ageing LOL

Bottom line...do it when YOU are ready

Take care

Liz


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When to go full-time is an intensely personal decision.  Each of us has to make that decision for ourselves, each for our own reasons.

I couldn't wait to go full-time.  For me that was what the whole desire to transition was about, and it couldn't come soon enough.  I was already 62 when I started, and I didn't want to waste any more time.  I was riding the brakes on my transition just to be prudent and not make mistakes, so I decided to wait several months after starting HRT.  I figured that once I started to male-fail in a T-shirt, it would be time to do it.

I wasn't yet actually male-failing, simply because it wasn't yet T-shirt weather, but once I needed to wear a bra to protect the girls, I figured it was time.

Passing or not was not a big issue to me.  I figured that it would take a while before I passed, if I ever did.  In the meantime, everyone I associated with would have to know that I was the same person as that guy, so passing just wasn't an option.  The village I live in has a population of only 300, so everyone knows everyone else's business, and stealth is not possible.  The environment just took that concern right off the table for me: it wasn't something that was worth worrying about.  They would either accept me as I am or not.

That was me.  Social dysphoria was the biggest part of my gender dysphoria, so I needed to go full-time as soon as I could.  Other people experience their dysphoria differently, and therefore have different priorities.  The social environment will influence people's decisions, too.  Some places are more conducive to transitioning than others.

Hi, I started HRT 5/28/2013 and went full tine 11/13/2015. I had FFS 9/2016 and GCS 11/2016. So I was a little over 2.5 years on HRT before I went full time. I have had a lot of procedures. I think it took me 2 years to feel at ease in public. I do not know if I pass more than 75% of the time.

When you express depends on you. I waited because I wanted to save my marriage. In the end the marriage was not to be. I was hoping HRT would have done more for me than it did. In the end the procedures is what helped me look more feminine. GCS is what eliminated my dysphoria. I had to express to get GCS. Odd as I never had thought to wear men's clothing after I got use to expressing. I wore men's clothing in the past and did not care how I looked; now, I put an effort into how I look and really enjoy it. 

Thank you all for sharing.

Chrissy

I am going to wait until I male fail constantly.

I have no intention of "coming out" whatsoever but I have slowly but surely been making daily changes to look more female for the past two years.

I will echo what others have said, when people stop calling me "sir" 90% of the time I will go full time

My experience is similar to Kathy. The need to be living as a woman, and easing my social dysphoria, overwhelmed any anxiety about my physical appearance. I had to start going out and doing my shopping and daily routine before starting HRT or doing anything physical. Not full time, but I couldn't wait to starting presenting as a woman in public, at every opportunity.

~Dee.

I do not think that I would go full time unless I could have a nice female voice first.

While it is nice to have affirming time with others while sounding male, I would feel much more comfortable with a sweet sounding female voice that just comes out naturally. 

I love the sound of a joyful feminine voice.  It can be so attractive and soothing. 

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 15, 2018, 08:38:59 AM
Unless we think as mtfs that we will not ever pass well, is it better than not to wait, let's say, another year or two or more, to see if we will be able to pass nearly all the time before going almost completely or completely full-time?  I realize that bottom surgery does require, in most countries, at least a year of living full-time, but living full-time does seem reasonable to do before having those kinds of surgeries.


Chrissy

Back in 2005, I was convinced I would never pass.  It's amazing what E does over time. 

I once gave myself a test - I had been laid off for 6 weeks so I told myself I'd live full time female.  Three weeks later I finally managed to drum up the courage to go to the grocery store because there was no food in the house.  Today it's a funny story.  Back then it was reality.

Whether you will pass or not may depend more on your ability to accept yourself than the ability for others to accept you.   

Woman plans, Goddess laughs...

At one time I planned to wait at least a year on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), and try to get facial feminization surgery (FFS) before going full time.  At one time...

Things changed, and I found myself living alone, relocating to a new town, about 5 months into HRT.  I went full time immediately.  At that point I knew how indeterminate actual surgery times for FFS and Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS) could be, and any sort of nice tidy schedule that would be covered by insurance would not be possible.

I did gain some immediate dysphoria relief.  I grabbed whatever surgeries I could in any order, just to get through transition.  Oddly, a trach shave may be the very last procedure, if i do one at all.

The opportunity presented itself and I went full time.  It was the right choice for me.

I started presenting full time because it was what I wanted, not because I thought I would pass other people's tests and standards.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

My apologies if this is a little 'brutal' but I'm now a year older in birthday terms and stuff worries me less.


When is the right time to do anything in life?

What I have realised is that tomorrow never comes and waiting for it is futile.

Life, however, changes constantly.  I waited for some things and then found out that I had cancer and my life is now predictably short. I'm by no means alone with that and it does not particularly concern me... any more.

But (there is always the BUT) I do realise I want to live for every day as tomorrow - I am dead .....

As for what people think of me?

I don't care  - let them laugh at my corpse, it won't worry me.

Oh and voice -- I now have a 'mechanical' voice as I have no vocal cords. I speak in short sentences at best.  No one. Absolutely no one has misgendered my voice. Maybe they are too busy looking at the half inch hole in my neck but I take what I can !

So don't worry so much. Take your chances when you can. Never fear the future, live for now and make your own luck and life.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on January 01, 2019, 08:41:59 PM
I do not think that I would go full time unless I could have a nice female voice first.

While it is nice to have affirming time with others while sounding male, I would feel much more comfortable with a sweet sounding female voice that just comes out naturally. 

I love the sound of a joyful feminine voice.  It can be so attractive and soothing. 

Chrissy

Hello again Chrissy

I agree absolutely on both counts.

I wish my voice to sound feminine and I shall shortly address that.

A feminine voice is certainly attractive and soothing as you say; it can be approachable, understanding and compassionate.

Hugs

Pamela

Quote from: pamelatransuk on January 02, 2019, 05:01:40 AM
Hello again Chrissy

I agree absolutely on both counts.

I wish my voice to sound feminine and I shall shortly address that.

A feminine voice is certainly attractive and soothing as you say; it can be approachable, understanding and compassionate.

Hugs

Pamela

I would love to hear the experience of you girls as you develope a voice. I bet you already have the inner disposition for it but not the vocals yet. I know a good voice takes many hours as well.

It is my first goal when I finish electrolysis.

Wishing you  timely fulltime,  Kirsten.

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