Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: Linde on January 08, 2019, 11:15:42 PM Return to Full Version
Title: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: Linde on January 08, 2019, 11:15:42 PM
Post by: Linde on January 08, 2019, 11:15:42 PM
A name and gender change might come up in the near future for me. Has anybody any idea how this would work for a naturalized citizen? I do not have a US birth certificate, my naturalization is for me the main indicator that I am a US citizen. This document, of course, is a federal document, and would need to be changed in it's entirety.
It gets really interesting if my dual citizenship comes into play, I might be a female for the US, but still a male for Germany/European Union. That would make me into a documented inter-gender being. What a mess!
I did a little research, and came across this:
What Do I Need to Update my Naturalization Certificate?
To change the name and/or gender marker on a naturalization certificate, you must submit:
Form N-565, Application for Replacement Naturalization/Citizenship Document (http://www.uscis.gov/n-565)
Filing fee of $555 (subject to change) or a Fee Waiver
Two passport-style photographs
Supporting documentation
If changing name, a court order for name change or other proof of legal name change.
If changing gender, a birth certificate, passport, driver's license, court order, or other official government-issued document recognizing the new gender, OR a letter from a licensed health care provider certifying the change in gender, as shown in the sample letter.
What Should My Provider Certification Letter Include?
USCIS will accept gender designation letters from licensed health care professionals, including licensed counselors, nurse practitioners, physicians (Medical Doctors or Doctors of Osteopathy), physician assistants, psychologists, social workers, and therapists. All certifications should include the information in the below letter. Proof of sex reassignment surgery or other specific medical treatment is not required.
I, (provider's full name), (provider's license number), (issuing state, country, or jurisdiction of the provider's license), have treated or evaluated (name of patient), (date of birth of patient), in relation to their gender identity. In my professional assessment, (name of patient)'s gender identity is (specify gender) and their documentation should be updated accordingly.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the foregoing is true and correct.
Provider's Signature
Typed Name
Address
Phone Number
Date
It gets really interesting if my dual citizenship comes into play, I might be a female for the US, but still a male for Germany/European Union. That would make me into a documented inter-gender being. What a mess!
I did a little research, and came across this:
What Do I Need to Update my Naturalization Certificate?
To change the name and/or gender marker on a naturalization certificate, you must submit:
Form N-565, Application for Replacement Naturalization/Citizenship Document (http://www.uscis.gov/n-565)
Filing fee of $555 (subject to change) or a Fee Waiver
Two passport-style photographs
Supporting documentation
If changing name, a court order for name change or other proof of legal name change.
If changing gender, a birth certificate, passport, driver's license, court order, or other official government-issued document recognizing the new gender, OR a letter from a licensed health care provider certifying the change in gender, as shown in the sample letter.
What Should My Provider Certification Letter Include?
USCIS will accept gender designation letters from licensed health care professionals, including licensed counselors, nurse practitioners, physicians (Medical Doctors or Doctors of Osteopathy), physician assistants, psychologists, social workers, and therapists. All certifications should include the information in the below letter. Proof of sex reassignment surgery or other specific medical treatment is not required.
I, (provider's full name), (provider's license number), (issuing state, country, or jurisdiction of the provider's license), have treated or evaluated (name of patient), (date of birth of patient), in relation to their gender identity. In my professional assessment, (name of patient)'s gender identity is (specify gender) and their documentation should be updated accordingly.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the foregoing is true and correct.
Provider's Signature
Typed Name
Address
Phone Number
Date
Title: Re: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: tgchar21 on January 09, 2019, 07:51:50 AM
Post by: tgchar21 on January 09, 2019, 07:51:50 AM
As far as the court process it'd be just like anyone else changing their name (except that you don't have a U.S. birth certificate to amend).
Title: Re: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:52:43 AM
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:52:43 AM
I went through some of the same research (I am a permanent resident so a few things are different).
Germany does not recognize a name/gender change in a foreign country. So your US documents can easily be changed as you figured out. The biggest catch with this is international travel - traveling into Germany you have to use your German passport and traveling back to the US you have to use your US passport. And of course, that messes with your airline tickets.
Trying to do a gender/name change in Germany is currently a giant mess given the process and cost involved. My immigration lawyer recommended to change everything in Germany first and before I apply for citizenship but Germany currently requires 3 years RLE.
There is some agreement in Germany to change the process to be self-determined, so a form at your local consulate should be all you need. but they are just starting the discussion and given the state of German politics right now, I don't have much hope even though there was a promise made to tackle an overhaul of the TSG in 2019.
They finally changed the regulations for intersex people at least, with an appropriate medical confirmation, they can change their name and gender without any court order or court hearing. This is an amendment to the Personenstandsgesetz (§ 45b Erklärung zur Geschlechtsangabe und Vornamensführung bei Personen mit Varianten der Geschlechtsentwicklung) - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pstg/__45b.html.
There is lots of criticism about the new law but I won't go there now.
To be fair, I am tempted to drop my German citizenship during the naturalization process if there is no change in the TSG until then.
Germany does not recognize a name/gender change in a foreign country. So your US documents can easily be changed as you figured out. The biggest catch with this is international travel - traveling into Germany you have to use your German passport and traveling back to the US you have to use your US passport. And of course, that messes with your airline tickets.
Trying to do a gender/name change in Germany is currently a giant mess given the process and cost involved. My immigration lawyer recommended to change everything in Germany first and before I apply for citizenship but Germany currently requires 3 years RLE.
There is some agreement in Germany to change the process to be self-determined, so a form at your local consulate should be all you need. but they are just starting the discussion and given the state of German politics right now, I don't have much hope even though there was a promise made to tackle an overhaul of the TSG in 2019.
They finally changed the regulations for intersex people at least, with an appropriate medical confirmation, they can change their name and gender without any court order or court hearing. This is an amendment to the Personenstandsgesetz (§ 45b Erklärung zur Geschlechtsangabe und Vornamensführung bei Personen mit Varianten der Geschlechtsentwicklung) - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pstg/__45b.html.
There is lots of criticism about the new law but I won't go there now.
To be fair, I am tempted to drop my German citizenship during the naturalization process if there is no change in the TSG until then.
Title: Re: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:57:26 AM
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:57:26 AM
I went back through your introduction where you had mentioned that there are indicators you are intersex. If you can find a doctor to write a letter confirming your intersex status you can easily change name and gender in Germany (see below).
~S
~S
Quote from: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:52:43 AM
I went through some of the same research (I am a permanent resident so a few things are different).
Germany does not recognize a name/gender change in a foreign country. So your US documents can easily be changed as you figured out. The biggest catch with this is international travel - traveling into Germany you have to use your German passport and traveling back to the US you have to use your US passport. And of course, that messes with your airline tickets.
Trying to do a gender/name change in Germany is currently a giant mess given the process and cost involved. My immigration lawyer recommended to change everything in Germany first and before I apply for citizenship but Germany currently requires 3 years RLE.
There is some agreement in Germany to change the process to be self-determined, so a form at your local consulate should be all you need. but they are just starting the discussion and given the state of German politics right now, I don't have much hope even though there was a promise made to tackle an overhaul of the TSG in 2019.
They finally changed the regulations for intersex people at least, with an appropriate medical confirmation, they can change their name and gender without any court order or court hearing. This is an amendment to the Personenstandsgesetz (§ 45b Erklärung zur Geschlechtsangabe und Vornamensführung bei Personen mit Varianten der Geschlechtsentwicklung) - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pstg/__45b.html.
There is lots of criticism about the new law but I won't go there now.
To be fair, I am tempted to drop my German citizenship during the naturalization process if there is no change in the TSG until then.
Title: Re: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: Linde on January 09, 2019, 08:59:35 AM
Post by: Linde on January 09, 2019, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 08:52:43 AMI contacted the German Consulate in Miami about this, the following was their answer. To me it seems to be pretty straight forward once one has the court decission in hands
I went through some of the same research (I am a permanent resident so a few things are different).
Germany does not recognize a name/gender change in a foreign country. So your US documents can easily be changed as you figured out. The biggest catch with this is international travel - traveling into Germany you have to use your German passport and traveling back to the US you have to use your US passport. And of course, that messes with your airline tickets.
Trying to do a gender/name change in Germany is currently a giant mess given the process and cost involved. My immigration lawyer recommended to change everything in Germany first and before I apply for citizenship but Germany currently requires 3 years RLE.
There is some agreement in Germany to change the process to be self-determined, so a form at your local consulate should be all you need. but they are just starting the discussion and given the state of German politics right now, I don't have much hope even though there was a promise made to tackle an overhaul of the TSG in 2019.
They finally changed the regulations for intersex people at least, with an appropriate medical confirmation, they can change their name and gender without any court order or court hearing. This is an amendment to the Personenstandsgesetz (§ 45b Erklärung zur Geschlechtsangabe und Vornamensführung bei Personen mit Varianten der Geschlechtsentwicklung) - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pstg/__45b.html.
There is lots of criticism about the new law but I won't go there now.
To be fair, I am tempted to drop my German citizenship during the naturalization process if there is no change in the TSG until then.
.MIAM RK-1 Consten, Alexandra <rk-1@miam.auswaertiges-amt.de>
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:24 AM
to me
Translate message
Turn off for: German
Guten Morgen aus Miami,
vielen Dank für Ihre Email.
Wenn Sie Anfang nächsten Jahres Ihren Vornamen und das Geschlecht ändern, müssten Sie zunächst dem Generalkonsulat den entsprechenden Gerichtsbeschluss vorlegen. Dieser kann ggfs. inzident anerkannt werden. Anderenfalls müsste in Deutschland das Verfahren nach dem Transsexuellengesetz durchgeführt werden.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Alexandra Consten
Leiterin der Rechts- und Konsularabteilung
Generalkonsulat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
100 N Biscayne Blvd, Ste 2200
Miami, FL 33132-2307
USA
Tel. +1 305 358 0290
VoiP: +49 228 99 17 801 614 584
Fax. +1 305 358 0307
Internet: www.miami.diplo.de
E-Mail: info@miami.diplo.de
Title: Re: Name and gender change when naturalized
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 09:50:37 AM
Post by: sarah1972 on January 09, 2019, 09:50:37 AM
Very interesting. I hope it works out! and they accept the US court order If it does work for you, I can try here.
~Sarah
I contacted the German Consulate in Miami about this, the following was their answer. To me it seems to be pretty straight forward once one has the court decission in hands
.MIAM RK-1 Consten, Alexandra <rk-1@miam.auswaertiges-amt.de>
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:24 AM
to me
Translate message
Turn off for: German
Guten Morgen aus Miami,
vielen Dank für Ihre Email.
Wenn Sie Anfang nächsten Jahres Ihren Vornamen und das Geschlecht ändern, müssten Sie zunächst dem Generalkonsulat den entsprechenden Gerichtsbeschluss vorlegen. Dieser kann ggfs. inzident anerkannt werden. Anderenfalls müsste in Deutschland das Verfahren nach dem Transsexuellengesetz durchgeführt werden.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Alexandra Consten
Leiterin der Rechts- und Konsularabteilung
Generalkonsulat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
100 N Biscayne Blvd, Ste 2200
Miami, FL 33132-2307
USA
Tel. +1 305 358 0290
VoiP: +49 228 99 17 801 614 584
Fax. +1 305 358 0307
Internet: www.miami.diplo.de
E-Mail: info@miami.diplo.de
[/quote]
~Sarah
I contacted the German Consulate in Miami about this, the following was their answer. To me it seems to be pretty straight forward once one has the court decission in hands
.MIAM RK-1 Consten, Alexandra <rk-1@miam.auswaertiges-amt.de>
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:24 AM
to me
Translate message
Turn off for: German
Guten Morgen aus Miami,
vielen Dank für Ihre Email.
Wenn Sie Anfang nächsten Jahres Ihren Vornamen und das Geschlecht ändern, müssten Sie zunächst dem Generalkonsulat den entsprechenden Gerichtsbeschluss vorlegen. Dieser kann ggfs. inzident anerkannt werden. Anderenfalls müsste in Deutschland das Verfahren nach dem Transsexuellengesetz durchgeführt werden.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Alexandra Consten
Leiterin der Rechts- und Konsularabteilung
Generalkonsulat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
100 N Biscayne Blvd, Ste 2200
Miami, FL 33132-2307
USA
Tel. +1 305 358 0290
VoiP: +49 228 99 17 801 614 584
Fax. +1 305 358 0307
Internet: www.miami.diplo.de
E-Mail: info@miami.diplo.de
[/quote]