Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Here we go again...more surgery although this one is not quite as extensive as the last one but certainly as important and life changing.


After working on my voice for over a year I managed to get my average pitch up to about 170 if I concentrated really hard on it. The moment I became emotional in any way that would all go out the window.

Whilst certainly not a beauty queen by any stretch of the imagination I do kind of pass in many circumstances until I speak. Up until I do people are not sure if I am trans or not at first glance and the moment I speak in comes the hesitation when speaking to me. Phone can be a hit or miss and the other day the guy came to the door to deliver the groceries and I spoke to him...he could not see me and addressed me as sir...can't blame him he only had my voice to go on.


Today I received my paperwork for surgery next week to be at the hospital 7:30 am 1 Feb with a planned overnight stay. I have to remain silent for 3 days and then I can do some talking,. He suggested I will need some voice therapy after this which is fine. I have no doubt this will help stop the hesitation and help me feel more confident. I am really looking forward to it. I was surprised that I had to have an overnight stay but such is life.

Will update again after Surgery next week

Till Friday

Liz

Wow!  Another round already!  You and @Kendra, charging ahead...

Liz, it sounds like you've done your homework, and with your previous voice work, I bet this will get you the results you desire.  I look forward to hearing how you are doing (once you can speak for a while, of course!)

I hope all goes well, with no last minute glitches.  Smooth all the way!

Hugs
Michelle

Already?

  That is quick. There must be less gate keeping and hoops for VFS there than here. I'm glad for you Liz.

Quote from: Laurie on January 23, 2019, 01:44:09 PM
Already?

  That is quick. There must be less gate keeping and hoops for VFS there than here. I'm glad for you Liz.

To be honest my experience has been NOhoops to jump through at all and NO gatekeeping behaviour. I did expect it however when I told him I was going for GCS in December he kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he requires nothing. I am not sure if it would have been different if I had not already had surgery.


Could be a few weeks until we can have another talking skype....but will keep you updated.

Liz

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 23, 2019, 09:16:54 AM
Wow!  Another round already!  You and @Kendra, charging ahead...

Liz, it sounds like you've done your homework, and with your previous voice work, I bet this will get you the results you desire.  I look forward to hearing how you are doing (once you can speak for a while, of course!)

I hope all goes well, with no last minute glitches.  Smooth all the way!

Hugs
Michelle

Thanks Michelle yes I have done the voice work which I found to be quite depressing to hear myself drop all my good work the moment I became emotionally stressed. Despite my work I barely achieved the lower end female range and that was in a quiet room fully engaged and concentrating on what I was doing. With all your public speaking experience you know that speaking in front of others, is a very different and far more difficult scenario. :)


The only thing about this that surprised me was the overnight stay in hospital.

Liz

 Voice is a real bear to get right at all times. We have a default voice that we slip into when distracted.

The only way I know of to feminize that default voice is to practice using our feminine voice and only our feminine voice. Any use of male voice reinforces that as our default.

I've been at this about two years and it finally seems to be becoming my new default. My speech therapist told me when some one cuts me off in traffic and I cuss them out in feminine voice that I'm there! [emoji1787]

The surgery will definitely help get the pitch right, without the damage some of the "quick fix femme voice" stuff on YouTube can cause. I did the pitch the old fashioned way, therapist work and practice, practice, practice!  Every morning I'm alone it's "Eeeeeeeee", "Oooooooo...",  breath and scales with a pitch app, then spoken passages into a frequency analysis app. I've slowly moved into the feminine pitch range.

Singing hymns in church is still really rough as a "learned alto"!


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Hi Liz, best wishes on your upcoming surgery!  Can you please share the name of the surgeon you are going to for your voice surgery and the technique he will use for you?  Thank you.

@LizK
Dear Liz: 
I have been anticipating when you were going to go for VFS...   
... and as some of the other replies mentioned, WOW, this is quick!!!  
and just an overnight stay, but the big issue for me is not talking for however long the surgeon specifies...
I immediately have a problem with "not talking"  ....  I am told by my friends that I can talk the ear off of a brass monkey!!... so perhaps that is why I am posting here a lot...  I can talk with my keyboard too!!!

I will be eagerly following your thread for surgery updates before, during and after.
Congratulations to you for going taking another big step and going through another gauntlet in your transition journey.
I am so very happy for you.

Hugs and best wishes...
Danielle

Best of luck with your surgery!  May you have a speedy recovery!

Quote from: echo7 on January 23, 2019, 05:39:51 PM
Hi Liz, best wishes on your upcoming surgery!  Can you please share the name of the surgeon you are going to for your voice surgery and the technique he will use for you?  Thank you.

Hi @echo7

Dr Theo Athanasiadis

Adelaide Hills ENT

PM me Telephone number

KTP Laser - Restylane web gloyyoplasty He used laser and a surgical glue to "shorten" some of the vocal folds...that is my best description going off what he showed me he will do. I have a couple of trans friends who have had this procedure and in every case they have been bought into the correct vocal range and from there is is about speech patterns etc which is why I will be returning to my speech therapist. Hope this helps

Liz 

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on January 23, 2019, 05:58:33 PM
@LizK
Dear Liz: 
I have been anticipating when you were going to go for VFS...   
... and as some of the other replies mentioned, WOW, this is quick!!!  
and just an overnight stay, but the big issue for me is not talking for however long the surgeon specifies...
I immediately have a problem with "not talking"  ....  I am told by my friends that I can talk the ear off of a brass monkey!!... so perhaps that is why I am posting here a lot...  I can talk with my keyboard too!!!

I will be eagerly following your thread for surgery updates before, during and after.
Congratulations to you for going taking another big step and going through another gauntlet in your transition journey.
I am so very happy for you.

Hugs and best wishes...
Danielle

I never really considered this to be all that quick as we had to plan around my other surgery. But I guess being 51 days PO it is quick. I really wanted it done last year but my surgeon did not want me intubated for as long as I was going to be  for GCS, on a freshly healing throat. Hence why it is now because I have yet another surgery due in the next 3 months (depending on GCS healing) for my hip replacement.

I will keep everyone posted and do a before and after recording which I will post a few weeks after surgery. Thanks @Alaskan Danielle for you unwavering support.  :)


Liz

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 23, 2019, 04:11:07 PM
Voice is a real bear to get right at all times. We have a default voice that we slip into when distracted.

The only way I know of to feminize that default voice is to practice using our feminine voice and only our feminine voice. Any use of male voice reinforces that as our default.

I've been at this about two years and it finally seems to be becoming my new default. My speech therapist told me when some one cuts me off in traffic and I cuss them out in feminine voice that I'm there! [emoji1787]

The surgery will definitely help get the pitch right, without the damage some of the "quick fix femme voice" stuff on YouTube can cause. I did the pitch the old fashioned way, therapist work and practice, practice, practice!  Every morning I'm alone it's "Eeeeeeeee", "Oooooooo...",  breath and scales with a pitch app, then spoken passages into a frequency analysis app. I've slowly moved into the feminine pitch range.

Singing hymns in church is still really rough as a "learned alto"!


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I have yet to do more work on my speech patterns however having only to concentrate on the pattern and not having to worry about pitch should make this job ea bit easier but I am under no illusions that it will take time and practice. I should be able to avoid the obvious "male sounding voice" misgendering on the phone and like what happened at the door the other day even without training. I have heard how this proceedure turns out and I would not be unhappy with the results "straight out of the box"...so to speak

One of the things I wanted to avoid was the sometimes disingenuious sounding voice that some trans women have from poor training. Thanks for all your support


Liz

Quote from: Maid Marion on January 23, 2019, 05:59:12 PM
Best of luck with your surgery!  May you have a speedy recovery!

Thankyou @Maid Marion I appreciate your support and thankyou for the kind words


Liz

Confirmed the type of voice surgery I am having and will drop in some comparison recordings when I get a chance.

The Procedure name is

RTP Laser + restylane web ghottoplasty

Confrmed with my insurance that this will be fully covered with the exception of the $500 payable each year for hospital stays. My out of pocket total for this is $1100 comprising of the hospital excess, Surgeons excess $500 and Anesthetist Excess $100.


Admission time is 0730, 1st Feb



Liz

Thank you for sharing and good luck with your surgery!

@LizK
Dear Liz:
I will be eagerly looking for your updates... as always your thread is on my list to always check up on whenever I login.

Wishing you the best and good success with your medical procedures.

Many HUGS and warm wishes for the  C O L D  north.
Danielle

Best of luck with your procedure. It would be nice to have a nice pleasant sounding female voice coming out of my mouth.

 Always wishing you warm happy things and good luck.. Nothing but happy thoughts and great results allows.

Tick, tick, tick.  That's the sound of progress.
Good luck on Friday Liz!

Big hugs, Jess

Liz, you are going to have no problems, great results, and an easy recovery. You are an old pro at this now.

Happy thoughts, happy dreams, and a pleasant recovery!

Best wishes to you Liz!  Here's to a healthy outcome.  Cheers.

About 20minutes from surgery..all gowned up in the waiting room ready to go through...feeling really nervous...definitely more so than my GCS... go figure lol should be back in the land of the living about 11am

Liz


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Quote from: LizK on January 31, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
About 20minutes from surgery..all gowned up in the waiting room ready to go through...feeling really nervous...definitely more so than my GCS... go figure lol should be back in the land of the living about 11am

Liz

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@LizK
Dear Liz:
On your behalf, I have my fingers and my toes crossed you ...
...wishing you a very successful outcome. 

I will eagerly be looking for your followup reports

Now, if I could just cross my eyes for you too !!!  :o ::)

Hugs and my best wishes to you.
Danielle

Big hugs girl!  You'll do great!

All done sitting up on the ward...Throat is sore when I swallow (expected) but drinking fine and may even go home this afternoon. Will be reviewed this afternoon.


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Quote from: Jessica on January 31, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
Big hugs girl!  You'll do great!

Thanks Jessica appreciate your kind words [emoji8]


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Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on January 31, 2019, 06:05:24 PM
@LizK
Dear Liz:
On your behalf, I have my fingers and my toes crossed you ...
...wishing you a very successful outcome. 

I will eagerly be looking for your followup reports

Now, if I could just cross my eyes for you too !!!  :o ::)

Hugs and my best wishes to you.
Danielle

Thanks Danielle everything is progressing nicely as far as I can tell.  Sitting up drinking keeping quiet lol [emoji23]


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discharged from hospital in the next half hour....apparently I am a "tough old bird"...received instructions from Iffy(GCS surgeons nurse) to  "REST PROPERLY" for the weekend...along with strict instructions of no talking till Monday afternoon and then only 10 minutes per hour for the rest of the week...not allowed to use my mobile phone to talk from Monday afternoon till Saturday afternoon

Voice surgeon said he was really pleased with the surgery and I had the biggest larynx he had ever seen.

All in all really good.

Liz

Quote from: LizK on January 31, 2019, 10:28:59 PM
discharged from hospital in the next half hour....apparently I am a "tough old bird"...received instructions from Iffy(GCS surgeons nurse) to  "REST PROPERLY" for the weekend...along with strict instructions of no talking till Monday afternoon and then only 10 minutes per hour for the rest of the week...not allowed to use my mobile phone to talk from Monday afternoon till Saturday afternoon

Voice surgeon said he was really pleased with the surgery and I had the biggest larynx he had ever seen.

All in all really good.

Liz

Wonderful news Liz!   You are a tough old bird, but soon you'll be singing like a robin.

 Great news Liz. Michelle and I were out and about today but I had reminders set so we knew just when you were supposed to be getting the surgery going. Glad it went well and glad you get to go home. Behave yourself and follow the nurse's and doc's instructions.

Hugs,
  Laurie

I did behave myself and was discharged yesterday after about a 30 minute wait.

Throat has been a little sore but nothing of any great problem a bit like when you have a bad cold and you throat gets scratchy. Needed some Endone last night but today had some Panadol early when I got up but have been fine since.


I can't wait to see how my voice sounds the early indications from the my coughing etc makes me think I will easily be within female range...but will get to test my voice on Monday afternoon. I did a couple of recordings on Thursday as a baseline comparison which I will post on Monday after my first talking session.

I have muttered a few words without thinking however nothing of any consequence and I am sure it won't do me any harm...normal talk reflexes are hard to stop. But I am aware of it.

I asked the Dr why I  have to be quiet for 3 days instead of 2 weeks and whether taking some extra time will be beneficial  but he told me that after about 3 days of not talking the muscles begin to become weak and damaged which prolongs the amount of treatment required...so as I suspected he has refined his technique and aftercare

Will update again on Monday

Liz

Day 3 Post op

Today is talk day. I will get to hear what my voice sounds like if only briefly.

Sunday's pain was worse than Saturday, with more pain and scratchiness than Saturday. Almost felt like I had taken a step backwards. I don't really know why yesterday was worse as i was pretty careful on Saturday but today(Monday) it is better again.

The surgeon Suggested that late this afternoon I can speak softly. I am home on my own so get to hear it privately. I am quite apprehensive as to how it will sound. I did almost speak on a couple of occasions on Saturday and once on Sunday (more of a whisper )...it sounded quite high pitched to me but to be honest it was very hard to tell from the one of two fleeting partial words that slipped out. Tomorrow I will post audio of my old voice alongside my new after I have seen my HRT Dr.

I doubt I will be able to say that much anyway as my throat is still a little sore so until tomorrow afternoon.

Take care

Liz

I couldn't wait any longer and had a go at talking

OMG...I couldn't say anything nothing...then slowly I found how to get my voice working and over the period of about 10 -15 minutes I tried a few different things and I have a voice...

It appears to be piching somewhere in the 250's and as high as the 350 but its all very hard to tell


When I finally relaxed and stopped panicking I was able to make a recoding of my voice which sounds pretty high piched to me but then again I am used to my 147 average. Its only a few days and I am sure with time and therapy it will settle down a bit. When I first tried to speak it was as I always have and that just doesn't work anymore. When I heard the higher pitch I naturally tried to to bring it down which of course didn't work. I also need to be well lubricated in order for it to work.


Its all alearning curve and now I have to be quiet for the next hour LOL I can feel the small amount that I have said already.


As I said will post some recordings tomorrow

Liz

Soon you will be chirping right along. I'm Interested in hearing your difference but make sure that you don't over do it and hurt yourself.

Hi Liz, after my surgery my HZ was in the 350 HZ range. I am 210 to 230 HZ base range now. It took about 6 months for the HZ to come down. I am settled now and it is not lowering. I am still not use to my new voice. It sounds so different in my head.

Good luck and remember recovery takes time. I found that cold water helps with the pain.

My average range was deemed just below androgynous at around 140-150 and yet, I always pass as female on the phone because my resonance is female due to the way I use muscles when speaking.

Quote from: Rachel on February 09, 2019, 09:52:33 AM
Hi Liz, after my surgery my HZ was in the 350 HZ range. I am 210 to 230 HZ base range now. It took about 6 months for the HZ to come down. I am settled now and it is not lowering. I am still not use to my new voice. It sounds so different in my head.

Good luck and remember recovery takes time. I found that cold water helps with the pain.

Thanks @Rachael

I was hoping that was the case and I can hear how "squeeky" I am at the moment. I am glad to hear it all settle down and after my little "test" Monday I have settled in a very quiet routine. I see the Dr on Wednesday and will post a further update then. I can actually squeak out an audible reply now but have tended to try and rest my voice as much as possible keeping in mind the Dr's instructions about doing some speaking to keep all the muscles exercised.

Quote from: KayXo on February 09, 2019, 10:11:15 AM
My average range was deemed just below androgynous at around 140-150 and yet, I always pass as female on the phone because my resonance is female due to the way I use muscles when speaking.

That is great outcome for you. I was always gendered correctly but that was due mainly to being able to use my "trained voice correctly combined with politeness by the other end but in a face to face situation I would drop out of my trained voice so easily when I forgot. My speech therapist is a lovely woman who will not pull any punches when it comes to being honest about how you sound. After my final session with her she agreed with my need for surgery to achieve the goal I wanted which was to fall consistently within female range even when I become emotional.

Saw my surgeon today

He said I am about 50% healed and everything is looking great...he gave me these images that he took during the operation. This is not everything that he did but a good idea

(https://i.imgur.com/QoneP5t.png)

Good news, then.  And wow!  Welded that tissue right up!  That'll surely change things.

Apparently I had the widest gap he had ever seen....Not sure if I am just "special" or it is related to my cleft palate.  But you can easily see the huge difference it made

I did a pitch test today which was a simple graph showing where your voice now falls as far as pitch goes and my average came out  as upper end of female scale considering it was middle to upper end of male scale pre surgery(on my best day)

I will do. more accurate test when I can find a tool that will do,it effectively.


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Liz
Glad to see that all is going well and very much to plan. Your doctor seems very experienced and confident in his technique.  It is certainly looking like a real alternative to Yeson being local, cheaper and involves a shorter period of silence post op.  Really appreciate the posts.
Safe travels
Aisla

I had my first voice therapy on Saturday post op. I am not suffering any pain from the op and am able to speak most days with out too much of an issue. I use the term speak loosely and I think Cindy can attest to what I mean as she has actually heard me. My voice fluctuates from day to day but each day it does get a little better.

It remains very weak and somewhat hoarse but every now and then I will find a good patch where is sounds a bit better. Of course on Saturday when I saw my voice therapist I could hardly get it working at all. It has been really hot here in Adelaide and I tend to sleep with my mouth open creating some issues for me first thing in the morning. In this case the issues seemed to be all day but today it seems to be back to where it was so maybe some anxiety was involved in yesterdays issues. 

We did look at different techniques for smoothing out parts of my voice but I think she felt I need a bit more time to heal before we will be able to get a good pitch reading and see what area's need worked on. 

One of the issues I have is that I spend most of my days on my own and then will suddenly have a phone call. It normally takes a few minutes to warm my voice up and can tend to just "blow air" when I am anxious or until it warms up. I have some breathing exercises to help with that along with trying to find a tone or sound that I create and hold steady.

I will try and get a sample uploaded of my current voice and my old voice however I am not sure if there is a site similar to Imgur for voice recording? Anyone have any suggestions

The reaction I get is very different from most people and I have had several conversation about my "bad throat"

 Really Liz, it is difficult to imagine you having a hard time talking.

Quote from: Laurie on March 03, 2019, 12:53:32 AM
Really Liz, it is difficult to imagine having a hard time talking.

I have to say that when I caught up with Liz when she was banned from talking she could burn up a whiteboard with ease. I could hardly fit a word in the margin!

Quote from: Laurie on March 03, 2019, 12:53:32 AM
Really Liz, it is difficult to imagine you having a hard time talking.

:icon_censored: :icon_evil_laugh:  :icon_eyebrow: :icon_evil_laugh::icon_eyebrow:

Quote from: Cindy on March 03, 2019, 12:58:20 AM
I have to say that when I caught up with Liz when she was banned from talking she could burn up a whiteboard with ease. I could hardly fit a word in the margin!

;D ;D ;D ;D

Liz, when you're ready, I'd love to hear the difference on Skype sometime.  Maybe when I'm visiting Michelle and Laurie? 

Quote from: LizK on January 31, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
About 20minutes from surgery..all gowned up in the waiting room ready to go through...feeling really nervous...definitely more so than my GCS... go figure lol should be back in the land of the living about 11am

Liz


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Liz
I am a few months behind you.  Your surgeon sounds very happy with your progress.  When does he think you will recover from the surgery and your voice will settle at its final pitch?  I am trying to get a sense as to my next 18 mths with gcs, ba and FUE ahead of me. Suspect that there won't be a lot of travel or too much exercise.
Your family haven't been very supportive.  I am not holding my breath either as my wife has asked for a divorce.  I feel that I absolutely need to move interstate just to find better support, be closer to the surgeons and to complete the social transition without folk criticising my decisions.
Thoughts welcome.  Your transition threads have been very, very useful.  Thank you.
Safe travels
Aisla

Here are my voice samples the first being a Pre VFS reading of the opening page of Conundrum
Pre vfs  (https://soundcloud.com/user-169509058/conumdrum-reading)

This second being Post VFS. My voice is still a bit rough but it will give you an idea of the change in pitch
Post VFS  (https://soundcloud.com/user-169509058/conundrum-reading-post-op)

Please let me know if the pinks do not work

Enjoy...

You still have a lot of swelling from the surgery and this is far from where your voice will settle out. The pitch will change and you will gain more control over your voice given some time. It's unfortunate that you need to wait possibly over a year for your voice to approach it's final form. The good news is your definitely in the feminine range and it will only get better with time.

Hi Liz,

The recordings work perfectly well.  By way of background, I am a Yeson graduate (Feb 2017) but I wouldn't say I am particularly evangelical about it!  Once I made the decision to go to Dr Kim, I was buying into his program.

That all said, I just went back to my medical file to look at the post-op instructions (these may have changed a bit since then).  Yeson required 7-day complete voice rest period but recommended 1 month.  I did the month of silence which is interesting when you are travelling internationally.  They then recommend not much talking for the 2nd month.  After that, you start the voice exercises 5 times a day.  I couldn't do 5 times as I work for a living which is something doctors involved in trans surgeries seem to intentionally ignore (voice and dilation!). So I made do with 2 long sessions a day.

The reason I raise this is that Dr Kim recommends a very long period of voice rest and recuperation.  As I understand it, this is for 2 reasons.  Firstly, while the wound may have healed, as Dena said swelling may not have.  The second reason is that it allows some of the muscle memory to go so that when you start talking again,  you can train the muscle groups without as much interference.  I can't comment any more on whether or not that works.  Dr Kim also injected botox at 1 week post surgery to disable the muscles and I was taking other pills for few months after that.  Some things like singing have to wait much longer and every new use like that  is tested at very low volumes to see if it is going to cause too much strain.

My thoughts are to give yourself time with this.  At 35 days, your voice sounds to me like it needs more recovery time and it is not quite ready yet.  Proviso - Your doctor and voice therapist may have a different approach and you should follow their advice.  For all that, the pitch is there.

After 2 years, I don't have a perfect female voice (for want of an easier term) and age may have something to do with this.  Muscle changes are possibly not that effective as we get older.  I did find that do some exercises first thing in the morning does set it up nicely.  Whenever I do a pitch test, my F0 is 220Hz which is perfectly fine to me.

Time is the key.

Keep well.

Emma

wow Liz  definite pitch change and it will get better.... 😊
hmmm i thinking 😉👍
thanks for posting

@Dena

Quote from: Dena on March 09, 2019, 09:12:02 AM
You still have a lot of swelling from the surgery and this is far from where your voice will settle out. The pitch will change and you will gain more control over your voice given some time. It's unfortunate that you need to wait possibly over a year for your voice to approach it's final form. The good news is your definitely in the feminine range and it will only get better with time.

Thanks Dena I appreciate the advice. I have been told by both my therapist and my Surgeon that time is the key and that the recovery will take a year or more to be 100% where I want it. I agree with your observations in that yes my voice as a long way to go.  My pitch is changing almost on a a daily basis as the area heals and the swelling slowly goes down. As far as control goes ...lol there is not a whole lot of that going on...I am grateful just be able to make myself understood. Thanks for the encouragement it means a lot coming from those who know about this stuff...I am a complete novice to it all.

Quote from: EmmaD on March 09, 2019, 06:10:45 PM

Hi Liz,

The recordings work perfectly well.  By way of background, I am a Yeson graduate (Feb 2017) but I wouldn't say I am particularly evangelical about it!  Once I made the decision to go to Dr Kim, I was buying into his program.

That all said, I just went back to my medical file to look at the post-op instructions (these may have changed a bit since then).  Yeson required 7-day complete voice rest period but recommended 1 month.  I did the month of silence which is interesting when you are travelling internationally.  They then recommend not much talking for the 2nd month.  After that, you start the voice exercises 5 times a day.  I couldn't do 5 times as I work for a living which is something doctors involved in trans surgeries seem to intentionally ignore (voice and dilation!). So I made do with 2 long sessions a day.

The reason I raise this is that Dr Kim recommends a very long period of voice rest and recuperation.  As I understand it, this is for 2 reasons.  Firstly, while the wound may have healed, as Dena said swelling may not have.  The second reason is that it allows some of the muscle memory to go so that when you start talking again,  you can train the muscle groups without as much interference.  I can't comment any more on whether or not that works.  Dr Kim also injected botox at 1 week post surgery to disable the muscles and I was taking other pills for few months after that.  Some things like singing have to wait much longer and every new use like that  is tested at very low volumes to see if it is going to cause too much strain.

My thoughts are to give yourself time with this.  At 35 days, your voice sounds to me like it needs more recovery time and it is not quite ready yet.  Proviso - Your doctor and voice therapist may have a different approach and you should follow their advice.  For all that, the pitch is there.

After 2 years, I don't have a perfect female voice (for want of an easier term) and age may have something to do with this.  Muscle changes are possibly not that effective as we get older.  I did find that do some exercises first thing in the morning does set it up nicely.  Whenever I do a pitch test, my F0 is 220Hz which is perfectly fine to me.

Time is the key.

Keep well.

Emma

@EmmaD

Hi Emma

Thanks for taking the time to listen to my voice and give the advice you have. As I mentioned to Dena I really appreciate ladies like you and her who are knowledgeable about this stuff giving your thoughts on my progress.

I have to say I was really surprised about the post op instructions I received. 3 Days silence from day 4 minimal talking up to day 14...in my case as I spend most of my days on my own I spoke very rarely in the first couple of weeks. Since my appointment with the surgeon her wanted me to wait a further 2 weeks and then start voice therapy. As it turns out my voice therapist listened to me and advised a further month before we try and do anything significant with my voice. She also talked about months and months of recovery, also that my voice was a long way from where it will finish.

There was no medications apart from pain meds and certainly no Botox. I have heard the results of my surgeons work and  they have been very pleasing. I understand the reason fro the rest and think the idea of the muscle memory being lost as a valuable thing. I am having to learn how to speak all over again and find certain things seem to come a bit more naturally. There are still many days that I will hardly speak at all as I am at home and my partner works...then when I do speak it is not for long as my voice is not strong enough. I spoke with Michelle and Laurie on Skype yesterday and could not manage a huge amount of time and was pretty much silent for the rest of the day.

I have noticed over the last few days that I can now actually speak first thing in the morning without having to worry about just "pushing air" like I have every other morning since surgery. My surgeon said to me that part of the problem with not speaking is the muscles begin to atrophy very quickly which makes for a longer recovery. He encouraged gentle use of my voice no whispering, no yelling (lol like I could) turn down noise in the immediate vicinity and if I felt strained in any way to stop and take a break. I have tried to follow these as much as I can...the only real discomfort comes from sleeping with my mouth open and my throat gets really sore...I found (especially in the recent heatwave) that ice blocks feel amazing to soothe my throat. Apart from this I have had not real discomfort.

As far as pitch goes the very quick tests I have done all put me smack bang in the middle of feminie range...the same test prior, even using my trained voice, put me just into the Androgynous range...I mean only just. As both you and Dena have suggested my final voice and pitch will sound different from where it is now. My therapist described that I have to train my voice which is now using a part of my vocal chords it has never usually used to work as my everyday voice and this is just going to take time. Once again I really appreciate you thoughts and advice.

Quote from: Drexy/Drex on March 10, 2019, 04:05:43 AM
wow Liz  definite pitch change and it will get better....
hmmm i thinking
thanks for posting

@Drexy/Drex

Hi Drexy

As both Dena and Emma have said my voice has a long way to go and will change a fair bit over the next 11 months. I am pitching in the feminie range at about 250htz (will come down a bit) at the moment. I have a few basic exercises to do but apart from that I will have to wait until the swelling subsides a bit more before going on to more. I have noticed already a difference in the way people react to me as the hesitation when I used to speak is gone...they hear me speak and in their minds assign me as female...I would like it to stabilise a bit more but essentially I wanted to remove the "hesitation" (deciding on gender?) I detected with people who had not met me. That has gone...so far so good. The surgeon is very accomplished and looks after the voice needs for all the famous singers who come to this part of the world and by that I am told Australia wide.

Thanks for the input ladies

Liz

Hello Liz,

How interesting. I have really enjoyed your posts and have found them to be so helpful as well as informative. My Voice is a really upsetting part of me.

I hope to go to speech therapy in the next week or so to try and find some sort of help to my frustrations.

I have not considered surgery but a consideration is a must! Lets see what comes of the voice trainig.

Hope you heal fast.

Quote from: MichelleVindee on March 10, 2019, 11:50:32 PM
Hello Liz,

How interesting. I have really enjoyed your posts and have found them to be so helpful as well as informative. My Voice is a really upsetting part of me.

I hope to go to speech therapy in the next week or so to try and find some sort of help to my frustrations.

I have not considered surgery but a consideration is a must! Lets see what comes of the voice trainig.

Hope you heal fast.

Hi Michelle

I am glad you are able to get something from my postings. it makes it all worthwhile. I don't know if surgery is for everyone but for me whenever I became emotional or under stress my voice training flew out the window and once that bird has flown there is no getting it back. Even with voice training I would speak and most new people would have a slight hesitation before addressing me. After discussions with my trans friends who have also experienced this I put it down to the mismatch is what people see and hear...now as far as I can tell even with my new scratchy voice it appears there is a match between the expectation of what they are seeing and what they are hearing.

Good luck with the voice therapy...I haven't escaped that, its just different now, its about trying to learn how to use my new voice.

Liz

So roughly 80_90 hertz higher for the start
when i heard your previous voice and it was in the range of 156 hertz
i thought how lucky you were.... my average is about 100
its really fantastic how people treat you differently now
you were right in your postulation!!
it definitely is so important
i think i will be paying your surgeon a visit
btw what voice pitch analysis did you use?
was that average previous voice using your trained voice?

Quote from: Drexy/Drex on March 11, 2019, 01:14:50 AM
So roughly 80_90 hertz higher for the start
when i heard your previous voice and it was in the range of 156 hertz
i thought how lucky you were.... my average is about 100
its really fantastic how people treat you differently now
you were right in your postulation!!
it definitely is so important
i think i will be paying your surgeon a visit
btw what voice pitch analysis did you use?
was that average previous voice using your trained voice?

@Drexy/Drex

My average with my trained voice was 147 HTZ (taken by my voice therapist)with my normal voice such as the reading I did it is about 120htz so without trying at the moment its about 250htz...that will change...the first week it was 320mhz.

I use PRAAT which there is a link for in the stickies, along with a really important tutorial to make it work

thanks Liz... 320......

So I am now about 90 days Post op and I have placed a couple of recordings here for comparison. I pitch somewhere around 220 to 250 and there is now very little variance in that. I am now at the pint where I don't even hear the difference anymore and my voice is my voice. However when you compare it to the pre VFS there is an obvious difference.

I am absolutely thrilled with the outcome and continue to do some voice work concentrating on the other aspects of voice other than pitch. My surgeon expects my voice to smooth out a bit more and I will gain strength over time. I can manage about 5 or so minutes before my voice begins to "break" but that gets better each week. This morning whilst doing this recording I felt a little strained which sometimes occur if I have done a lot of talking the previous day (which I did yesterday) but having said that this recording is a really good indicator of how I now sound. I can without any real effort pitch higher but my voice seems to fall naturally around this level.

Post VFS 91 days  (https://soundcloud.com/user-169509058/home-4)

Pre VFS  (https://soundcloud.com/user-169509058/conumdrum-reading)

Regards

Liz

Wow Liz you sound like an Aussie Sheila 😊 congratulations!

Best compliment I have been paid in a long time Lol Thanks Drexy my surgeon was really happy with the result.


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Your welcome brave lady ...thanks for sharing it give me hope ....😊

Liz
Congratulations on achieving such a great outcome.  Your willingness to share each and every step is brave, inspiring and so very helpful.  I have followed in your footsteps to GCS with Andrew and now I will follow you to Theo.
Safe travels
Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on May 05, 2019, 06:14:09 AM
Liz
Congratulations on achieving such a great outcome.  Your willingness to share each and every step is brave, inspiring and so very helpful.  I have followed in your footsteps to GCS with Andrew and now I will follow you to Theo.
Safe travels
Aisla

I hope both surgeries go really in fact I should say all three. With your determination and ability to persevere these traits will hold you in good stead for the journey ahead. You show great courage and strength and I will be there with you in spirit and maybe even physically if I can get there. I wish you all the joy of it [emoji847][emoji847]

Liz


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Liz
Thank you for your best wishes, for your support and for your friendship.  It is so much easier and less intimidating when an intrepid friend has blazed a path and shared their experience.  :)
Safe travels
Aisla

I think your voice sounds fantastic and it will get even better with time as well.

Hi Rachael

Thank you so much it's weird....I just don't hear it. I saw my HRT Dr today and she was exclaiming out great I sound...which is fantastic but to me it just sounds like my voice.

My voice Dr said it would smooth out over the next few months and continue to improve over the next year.

Liz


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It's interesting that with Lazer .... I'm assuming there would be no bleeding then

Hi @Drexy  I certainly didn't experience any bleeding and when I  saw the pics there was no evidence of it, as I would imagine the laser cauterises as it goes.

The recovery is different from The Yeason procedure in that you can talk sooner but similar enough to get the results. I was told part of the reason for not being able to speak for so long post surgery, is about trying to lose the muscle memory. I had to overcome my wanting to speak in the same way I always had and it wasn't until I relaxed and let my voice go to where it naturally did that I began to make progress with the way I sounded.

Take care

Liz


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I had an interesting experience last night in camp, recently the camp shop has changed to self serve to alleviate the 30 deep queues of workers getting whatever ,
Anyway it was my turn at the machine ....and I messed it up so I was trying to get it working and I heard a voice to the  side of me say ...I think it's crashed...without looking I automatically replied ...no worries thx mate , the to my surprise as I moved away ...I glanced back ...and lo and behold the speaker was a fully transitioned woman ....the point I'm trying to make is that I had answered her as if I had heard a male speak ...and yet she was very feminine...about my height tastefully attired ... I'd never seen her before....and if it was not for a few things only a transitioning male who is attracted to woman can notice , I would never had noticed ....so voice absolutely Paramount from my point of view ..now ..hmm was a little envious but happy for her all the same ....she has had some good work done facially ...

Help...trying to find the before/after recordings but can't seem to find them. Is it because this thread is 5 years old?

Figured it out