Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well I am from South Africa that is not one of the most transgender friendly places on earth.

But recently a new trend emerged with my ex.

She is born through Jesus again Christian. But she uses this as a weapon to bash me. She believes that she lives in the spiritual realm and we mortals in the materialistic realm.

Where the trouble comes in there is a 5 year old now involved my daughter that is being used as a weapon to try and get me to detransition.

She dead named me for the first time this weekend. Insisted that she want to call me by my old name otherwise Jesus is going to be angry at her. She said I am a man because if she say I am a woman Jesus is going to be angry also.

She already brain washed my child into this.

Now comes the big thing the push for me to detransition. I called her and she told me it is because my dad apparently sold my soul to the free masons that I am transgender.

This is starting to become a huge issue now as she is attacking me as a transgender Christian telling me I can't be one and I am not welcome to serve God because serving God is living to his great design.

My daughter is telling me they are praying a lot that I become a man again. My ex insisted that I will become a man one day it is just going to happen on Gods time.

O and don't forget the evil female spirit that she dreamed about that is apparently in me playing with my head.

How do I deal with this. It is a much more complicated situation than someone just bashing you?

I look at this as a birth defect....something got formed differently in our brain somehow before birth that sets this path in motion.  While I do think there are some anomalies among us, I do believe this the case for the majority of trans people (MtF and FtM).  So if it is a "birth defect", does your ex believe that no other birth defects should be corrected.  What about a cleft palate in a child.  If that procedure is done, is the child forever a sinner in God's vision as they did not live as God created them???  What about medical care in general??  Vaccinations?

I find the religious right very selective in their views of what God deems right and wrong.

Yeah it is becoming a massive problem now she bursted out yesterday when I tried to reason with her logically Be gone from me, Satan.

The problem is I can't cut her out of my life because she is the mother of my child and their is absolutely no reasoning with her.

She condemned the christian people that accepts me that I know as sinners and that they wont go to heaven because they are submitting to the lies of the devil that I am a woman.

Long time, no see. There isn't a good way to deal with this. Most of the time when the religious argument is used, it's made up in the attackers mind or by a church leader. They aren't conforming to the word of the bible when they do this. The only argument possible is to hand them a bible and ask them where is the line in the new testament that says that. They will not be able to find it or they will pull some line out of the old testament.

The argument then becomes followers of Jesus are guided only by the word in the new testament so why are you using the old one. If they declare it doesn't matter, you still need to follow the word of the old testament, then ask why they eat pork or dress so immodestly. It may not change their mind but it will back them into a corner.

People who do this are hypocritical had voice the idea of do as I say and not as I do. They have forgotten the most important message that Jesus had and that was forgiveness. Even on the cross, he forgave the people who put him there. Your ex could learn from this.

See the thread on dealing with religion.     
'How to refute religious arguments?'

Amore, you have my deepest sympathies!! This sounds like a very hard situation to be in and I'm sending all my positive thoughts and hopes your way that things will get better!

My family is also very religious and subscribe to the whole 'god doesnt make mistakes and you should be obedient to his plan' belief. And tho I dont have children of my own, i have neices and nephews that i love dearly. I know when I do come out to my family, there is a very real chance that I will not be allowed to see them and that breaks my heart.

  There doesnt seem to be any good answers to these situations. I'm just hoping that once my neices and nephews are older, they will be more open than their parents and I can re-establish a connection with them. It does seem like the younger generations have a brave new perspective on gender and sexuality so I have hope for the future.

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You know I believe that the way to God is seeing his glory and acknowledging him as God in your life.

That you are so amazed that he will accept you and love you despite your flaws, mistakes and who you are.

Her believes fall more in line with a pharisee.

"the conviction that law-keeping is the ground for our acceptance with God"

Hello Amore,

I think the issue is that she has control of your daughter and is teaching her things that pit you against her.

Are there any issues with your ex that could be abusive to your daughter?  If so it needs to be documented and reported to the court.

I am sorry your are going through this. From past posts your ex is very manipulative and controlling. This is just another expression of her control issues. I hope she moves on to another religion that teaches tolerance of others.

Amore if memory serves you are intersex.  There isn't any man to go back to because you were never one to begin with.

Your ex has bought into a series of delusions created by American evangelical Christians where they sell her the satisfaction of hate, blame and controlling others through guilt—in exchange for her loyalty and her money.

There is no validity to her beliefs whatsoever.  In Biblical terms you were born a eunuch (Matthew 19:12) and you deserve an exalted place in church (Isaiah 56:4).

It is unfortunate that American Hate Christianity has traveled all the way to South Africa.

But be comforted to know you are not alone in this fight.

Hugs, Carly

I am a late transitioner, having transitioned at age 66. I was married to a conservative woman for many years. I was miserable, but I felt that I could overcome my feelings, so I struggled on.

Then a number of things happened that lead me to transition. We are now getting divorced.

This is the price many of us pay for transitioning. Not everyone accepts us as humans with the same rights as everyone else. If your spouse is firmly convinced that you are wrong, do not expect to change her mind.

On the other hand, I do know of three close friends who's wives of many years are accepting of their husbands need to transition. Sometimes miracles do happen.  :angel:

Hello again Amore

As Alice (nym) advises and if you have time, you may wish to read through the "How to Refute Religious Arguments" thread.

I never married but have recently lost a close friend as he is a "born again evangelical" who thinks it is a sin to take any action on my transgender status including crossdressing and/or HRT and/or surgery.

I copy my comment for you from that thread:


"I do have some personal experience of this problem.

First, I am Christian and it is my experience that it is usually the evangelical or "born again" ones who are so against transgender people like us whereas the more traditional Christians are sometimes quite tolerant. Apart from the wing within Christianity (and there are separate wings or philosophies within denominations), it is usually the younger generation who are more understanding of us.

Also I have recently lost a friend who cannot accept me as I am publicly transitioning in Summer and he is an evangelical and told me what I do now to crossdress mainly in private and what I intend in Summer is offensive to God. I tried to reason with him but it was pointless and we have gone our separate ways and I shall probably never see him again.

My 2 arguments to use to these people are:

1. God knows we are transgender and loves us all very much and would never discriminate on grounds of gender.

2. The genitalia do not determine our gender - they just have appeared due to an error which occurred before our birth during our mothers' pregnancy. Our gender is determined by our brain providing we are sane which I am sure you are.

Sadly these and other arguments are likely to fail as they have been brainwashed or are simply ignorant and wish to remain so."


I totally empathize with you as it so painful when a friend or partner hurts you with false hateful doctrine which they believe so passionately and that they cannot and will not change their thinking. I feel for you.

Wishing you resolution and success.

Hugs

Pamela

Amore, hi! Excuse my ignorance on the specifics as I am an atheist, but wasn't it a big thing about, "Let those without sin cast the first stone." The point being that it wasn't anyone on earth's place to judge, it was God's place. This seems to be about her using anything to manipulate, not about religion at all. I hope you have the opportunity to be the voice of reason for your daughter. If you give in to their argument with her, my fear is she will only see her side.
Moni

Hi all thanks for the replies.

I decided to allow my child to call me a man now and too call me by my dead name as she is only 5 and doesn't know better. My ex decided the discussion ends here and she will teach my child her ways.

I will just have to conjure up the strength to take it and love my child and not play tug of war with her as the rope in between two parents and their believes and views.

So I am going to submit to what she is teaching my child and let my child make up her own mind as she grows older if she still want to implement her mothers believes or not. I believe that in the end the unconditional love that I will show her will win.

So if my child dead names me I am going to take it. If my child misgenders me I am going to take it. I will only show her love. She is not doing it out of her own choice but under instruction and brainwashing from her mother.

Amoré, I don't think this is a religious issue.  By that, I mean that trying to argue with your ex about religion is doomed to fail.  The problem is not your religious differences with your ex.  Advice on how to find a more suitable religion misses the point.

The problem is that she is brainwashing your daughter to hate you.  Unfortunately, I cannot think of a solution.  Your ex will continue her brainwashing efforts.  Your best hope to prevent that would be to get custody of your daughter.  Sadly, I know that that will be difficult to do.

I am sorry that you are in this terrible predicament.  I wish there was something I could say or do that would make it better.

[edit]  I just read what you posted while I was typing.  That is a difficult choice that you are making, but it is a good one.  You are showing wisdom and strength, and I commend you for it.

I won't argue with anyone over religion. Pssstttt ... I'm religious. But I'm not going to project my beliefs onto others. My Belief is that God is love. In that spirit I try to love everyone. Some people make that very difficult. Just no sense arguing... you won't change anyone's beliefs.. If you look at the different tenets of religion ... Every individual branch considers the others heretics... LOL you just can't get thru to em

I say this because I am divorcing my wife at present... She is a very hard line religious person.  Sometimes it's in your own best interests to walk away

Quote from: KathyLauren on March 03, 2019, 10:44:24 AM
Amoré, I don't think this is a religious issue.  By that, I mean that trying to argue with your ex about religion is doomed to fail.  The problem is not your religious differences with your ex.  Advice on how to find a more suitable religion misses the point.

The problem is that she is brainwashing your daughter to hate you.  Unfortunately, I cannot think of a solution.  Your ex will continue her brainwashing efforts.  Your best hope to prevent that would be to get custody of your daughter.  Sadly, I know that that will be difficult to do.

I am sorry that you are in this terrible predicament.  I wish there was something I could say or do that would make it better.

[edit]  I just read what you posted while I was typing.  That is a difficult choice that you are making, but it is a good one.  You are showing wisdom and strength, and I commend you for it.

This is a very important point.  My first wife left me 20 years ago.  At the time I was committed to being a man and had no thoughts of transitioning.  And although I had a few deeply suppressed feminine mannerisms that bubbled to the surface, she had no idea that I was transgender.  AFAIK, she still does not know.  But still, my ex did everything she could think of to teach my son to hate me.

Amore your ex is not exercising religious beliefs.  She is using them as leverage and justification to teach your daughter to hate you regardless of what she actually believes.

Amor'e,

As I read through this thread I came to the same conclusion as you and many of the others.  There is nothing you can do to convince her to stop hating you.  Her religious justifications are her means of making her feel better about herself.

It is so sad that she has the need to turn you little girl against you.  This often happens when marriages end for whatever reason.  Your ex just has a "cause" that is readily vilified.

As you have already concluded, there is not a lot you can do to change your ex's mind.  What you must do is everything in your power to make sure your daughter knows you love her and will always be there for her in every way you can.  Don't assume she will see your love.  Tell her it is there.   Do not respond to you ex's attacks in kind when your daughter is around.

My thoughts will be with you,
Stevi

Amore, do you not have legal protection of your rights with regard to your daughter? I totally agree not putting your child in the middle of an emotional battle, but I hope you are not risking losing  her to your wife's deception. I think I would consider a method of documenting your ex's behavior should you ever change your mind and decide to go to court. If someone tried to poison my child's mind against me, I would be furious. They have no right to do that to you. I know you need to decide what is best but, over the long term, can you handle her being turned against you? This may be out of line, but you do know what she is doing is messed up and that you don't deserve this right? She hasn't guilted you into thinking she has any point, I hope. (Just asking, something to think about. No offense intended.)
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on March 03, 2019, 04:22:33 PM
Amore, do you not have legal protection of your rights with regard to your daughter? I totally agree not putting your child in the middle of an emotional battle, but I hope you are not risking losing  her to your wife's deception. I think I would consider a method of documenting your ex's behavior should you ever change your mind and decide to go to court. If someone tried to poison my child's mind against me, I would be furious. They have no right to do that to you. I know you need to decide what is best but, over the long term, can you handle her being turned against you? This may be out of line, but you do know what she is doing is messed up and that you don't deserve this right? She hasn't guilted you into thinking she has any point, I hope. (Just asking, something to think about. No offense intended.)
Moni

Hi Moni

The problem is in South Africa we have strong laws on discriminating against someones believe and religion and teaching their child that. I am not sore what the context of that is ones the religion gets discriminating against other that doesn't choose the lifestyle you have.

I am still trying to figure that out. In the end I don't think there is anything I can do. This country is very biased against transgender woman.

She didn't guild me into thinking she is right. I think rather she is a bit loony because the stuff she talks about is a bit loony.

Quote from: Amoré on March 04, 2019, 01:57:38 AM
Hi Moni

The problem is in South Africa we have strong laws on discriminating against someones believe and religion and teaching their child that. I am not sore what the context of that is ones the religion gets discriminating against other that doesn't choose the lifestyle you have.

I am still trying to figure that out. In the end I don't think there is anything I can do. This country is very biased against transgender woman.

She didn't guild me into thinking she is right. I think rather she is a bit loony because the stuff she talks about is a bit loony.

Amore,
   Yeah, I wasn't thinking about it being in South Africa. You have to work within the system you live  in. Your ex does sound pretty lost. She seems to be grabbing onto this religious extreme and using it as a weapon. It is sad. I hope you will be able to teach your daughter to respect all sides despite the nastiness your ex is presenting. Be strong  and reasonable and she will grow up seeing that in you.