Susan's Place Transgender Resources

The Joys of Not Passing.  What stupid kind of title is that?  I was going to put this off until the weekend because I really need some sleep but I have been thinking about writing this all week.  This will probably be an introduction and I will expand on it over the weekend.  My first day off in two weeks !!!  YAY  :)

How can there possibly be any joy in not passing?  I have spent several years reading topics such as:

1.  Do I look passable?
2.  What can I change to look more passable?
3. What if I don't pass?
4.  Will I pass?
5.  I passed today  :)

5, 6, 7 , 8.......blah blah blah.

We have all read them.  I have written them.  I have worried about passing, hoped to pass, wondered if I passed.

I am getting exhausted thinking about it.

Here's the thing.  Sometimes it's pretty cool and fun to not pass.  Women love showing me how accepting they are of me.  If I was still a 58 year old conservative looking white male 20 something and 30 something women would not even look sideways at me, I would be the enemy.

Most of them are so friendly to me.  They want to show they support me.  They want to befriend me.  I get constant hugs.  In a meeting at work the other day one walked behind my chair and flipped my hair as she passed complimenting my new haircut.  This was a gorgeous 25 year old African American woman that would have never even talked to me a few years ago.

When I am out in public many people are so much friendlier to me than they used to be.  Women I don't know smile warm and friendly smiles for no reason.  They call me hon and sweetheart.  They compliment my nails and my clothing.

And many men think I have guts. They have told me so.

At the ripe old age of 58 I am hip.  :D  Who'd have thunk it?

Next Friday I am going out drinking with a bunch of girls from the office.

Do some people hate us?  YEP.  But lots of people love us.  We are brave, cool, different, non conformists.

I was a huge conformist my entire life.  Everyone had to accept me.  Well now some don't but the ones that like me like me a lot more than when I tried to blend into the scenery.

Being openly trans over the last few years has went from terrifying to fun.  :) 

WARNING -----  More rambling on this topic coming this weekend.  Next tangent is about being OK with ourselves and even feeling good when we don't pass.   

Heresy I say  :D  An abomination  :-\   Nope  :)  It happens.

Thank you Kim for raising this awesome topic! I am one who feels she may never pass, and was probably destined to present as someone else in public due to fear of not being accepted, but you have opened another dimension for me. I will be watching this thread with great interest as I try to work out my future.

Allie

What a great thread!  I can pass with a lot of work, and sometimes do, but mot as much as I used to.  Pretty does not equal passing and vice versa.  In five minutes I can look pretty when it takes me 15 to 20 to pass.  I just don't have that kind of time.  When Im trying to pass I'm always on edge.  When Im not I have more confidence.  And I call not passing my a** hole filter.  Someone gives me static or side-eye and I automatically know they ain't worth the time.

I am a firm believer in the idea that people see what they expect to see...if I give them enough clues then they will gender me correctly...yes I get the odd strange look and occasionally someone will get all weird with me.

I had a guy at the petrol station in a small country town over the weekend, who kept circulating into the back of the burger franchise(within the petrol station) and then through to the front counter to stare at me. I never noticed until my  daughter sarcastically said loudly to no one in particular "Why don't you take a picture it lasts longer" Until this happened I didn't even realise what was going on. I just laughed and then made a concerted effort to catch his eye,  I wanted to give him a smile and a wink... but after my daughter spoke up he got all shy and wouldn't look at me LOL

Generally I get treated well and sometimes I pass but the staring is not an unusual thing for me to experience. Most seem to be very accepting and just treat me like any other woman. I don't think it matters that much to most people where I live...I am obviously not a guy and appear to be woman so am treated accordingly.   

Liz 

Kym, I love your posts.   Interesting in that on the "other forum" the same topic was raised and this is what I wrote:

Thank you so much for your input and sharing your experience. I too realize that for me passing 100% is far from possible. My goal is to be 100% accepting of whom I am and have an inner peace that is not dependant on how others see me. I am still working toward it, but believe that in this life it is attainable.

Passing for me has become an interesting curiosity, nothing more.  Sometimes I pass, and it's fun when I do.  I am quite sure that I mostly don't.

The bagel lady at Tim Horton's recognizes me, and always has a smile and a few words for me in spite of being super busy.  I suspect the reason she recognizes me is because I don't pass.  And that is fine, because I get a smile and a few words.

More importantly, the other employees and all the customers get to see the interaction and see that trans people are just normal people.  We buy bagels and coffee, we talk to severs, we get smiled at, and we aren't trying to rape their wives and daughters in the bathroom.

We represent variety in our local demographics.  Yes, a few people find variety threatening, but most people like it.  We add spice to their lives.

I want it all.  I want people to know that I am trans and to treat me like a woman.  And most of all, I don't want to hide.  For me, that means not caring about passing, and even sometimes outing myself.

Going out and not passing has been a big fear of mine.  You have given me a new perspective to consider.  Thank you

Bea

This is a great thread Kim!

My goal is to finally be me.  How that works out on my female presentation will take time but I hope that in time the confidence I feel in being me will overcome any shortcomings I have in passing.

I don't need to pass as a woman, I need to pass as me.

Hugs,

Emma

I know for a fact that I get extra pleasant and engaging comments due to the fact that I don't pass. Just during my 'vacation that wasn't' a waitress talked to me about hair and color and how her husband wanted her to let it grow back out to natural gray. She went out of her way to come back to initiate the conversation.

I like passing
I like being recognized as me
I like educating the individual
yes .. I like the attention. It's actually more boring to pass even though it feels good.

Kim I really, really love this:  "Being openly trans over the last few years has went from terrifying to fun."

I may come out today so I can be one of the cool kids!

Thank you Kim! I too have noticed this. At work, I now have total strangers say hi to me, by name, and wish me a good day/night. I can't help but think about the movie "GBF". Are they looking for a TBF (trans best friend)?

Out and about town, women that work in places I frequent almost always are sweet, kind, and openly converse with me. Some even know me by name (because I use web ordering).

I'm 6'2, 200+lbs, rather thin hair but quite long now, and far from passing. I too wondered and feared the idea of transitioning and not being able to pass. But now that I've gotten over the initial fear and panic that we all fight to overcome when we first venture out as our true selves, I own that I'm trans. And I think that confidence goes a long way in others eyes.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

People reflect what you put out.  If  you want people to be friendly, you need to be friendly yourself!

This gets back to the confidence issue.  If is hard to be happy if you are worried about passing.  But, if you are happy with how you look, people will pick that up and be happy  as well.

I want to reply to everyone individually.  I love the input !!!  My hope is every single pre transition lurker on this site reads this.

Dorit - Old habits die hard.   :D  Yeah I haven't been called Kym in awhile  ;D.  Nice to see you again.  I like it so much better here.  I hope your post surgery recovery is going well.

More replies and more thoughts after dinner.  I DON'T WORK TOMORROW YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: KimOct on May 02, 2019, 09:55:41 PM
The Joys of Not Passing.  What stupid kind of title is that?  I was going to put this off until the weekend because I really need some sleep but I have been thinking about writing this all week.  This will probably be an introduction and I will expand on it over the weekend.  My first day off in two weeks !!!  YAY  :)

How can there possibly be any joy in not passing?  I have spent several years reading topics such as:

1.  Do I look passable?
2.  What can I change to look more passable?
3. What if I don't pass?
4.  Will I pass?
5.  I passed today  :)

5, 6, 7 , 8.......blah blah blah.

We have all read them.  I have written them.  I have worried about passing, hoped to pass, wondered if I passed.

I am getting exhausted thinking about it.

Here's the thing.  Sometimes it's pretty cool and fun to not pass.  Women love showing me how accepting they are of me.  If I was still a 58 year old conservative looking white male 20 something and 30 something women would not even look sideways at me, I would be the enemy.

Most of them are so friendly to me.  They want to show they support me.  They want to befriend me.  I get constant hugs.  In a meeting at work the other day one walked behind my chair and flipped my hair as she passed complimenting my new haircut.  This was a gorgeous 25 year old African American woman that would have never even talked to me a few years ago.

When I am out in public many people are so much friendlier to me than they used to be.  Women I don't know smile warm and friendly smiles for no reason.  They call me hon and sweetheart.  They compliment my nails and my clothing.

And many men think I have guts. They have told me so.

At the ripe old age of 58 I am hip.  :D  Who'd have thunk it?

Next Friday I am going out drinking with a bunch of girls from the office.

Do some people hate us?  YEP.  But lots of people love us.  We are brave, cool, different, non conformists.

I was a huge conformist my entire life.  Everyone had to accept me.  Well now some don't but the ones that like me like me a lot more than when I tried to blend into the scenery.

Being openly trans over the last few years has went from terrifying to fun.  :) 

WARNING -----  More rambling on this topic coming this weekend.  Next tangent is about being OK with ourselves and even feeling good when we don't pass.   

Heresy I say  :D  An abomination  :-\   Nope  :)  It happens.

I've resigned myself to just present male. It seems so much easier in life.

Quote from: StacyRenee on May 03, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
Thank you Kim! I too have noticed this. At work, I now have total strangers say hi to me, by name, and wish me a good day/night.

Out and about town, women that work in places I frequent almost always are sweet, kind, and openly converse with me. Some even know me by name (because I use web ordering).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yep... It seems that everybody knows my name.  It's like being Norm at 'Cheers"

Quote from: Faith on May 03, 2019, 08:15:45 AM

I know for a fact that I get extra pleasant and engaging comments due to the fact that I don't pass.

I like passing
I like being recognized as me
I like educating the individual
yes .. I like the attention. It's actually more boring to pass even though it feels good.

I agree with all of that.  It is so obvious when people are trying to be extra nice to you.  Who doesn't like that?

Quote from: Emma1017 on May 03, 2019, 08:04:49 AM


I don't need to pass as a woman, I need to pass as me.

Hugs,

Emma

EXACTLY !!!!

Quote from: Bea1968 on May 03, 2019, 07:34:31 AM
Going out and not passing has been a big fear of mine.  You have given me a new perspective to consider.  Thank you

Bea

My pleasure and privilege

Quote from: KathyLauren on May 03, 2019, 07:08:17 AM
Passing for me has become an interesting curiosity, nothing more.  Sometimes I pass, and it's fun when I do.  I am quite sure that I mostly don't.

The bagel lady at Tim Horton's recognizes me, and always has a smile and a few words for me in spite of being super busy.  I suspect the reason she recognizes me is because I don't pass.  And that is fine, because I get a smile and a few words.

More importantly, the other employees and all the customers get to see the interaction and see that trans people are just normal people.  We buy bagels and coffee, we talk to severs, we get smiled at, and we aren't trying to rape their wives and daughters in the bathroom.

For those of you that fear what it will be like, well this is what it is actually like.  It's nice.

Quote from: plastic-mayhem on May 03, 2019, 02:21:15 AM
  And I call not passing my a** hole filter.  Someone gives me static or side-eye and I automatically know they ain't worth the time.

I agree about the a**hole filter.  Anybody that has a problem with me I realize that they are the one with the problem.

GingerVicki  there is nothing wrong with that.

I've resigned myself to just present male. It seems so much easier in life.

If you feel that will make you the happiest then that is the best path.  This is all about living our best life.  If that will be your best life then absolutely.  If you feel that you would be happier doing something else then do that.

Quote from: KimOct on May 03, 2019, 07:31:09 PM
GingerVicki  there is nothing wrong with that.

I've resigned myself to just present male. It seems so much easier in life.

If you feel that will make you the happiest then that is the best path.  This is all about living our best life.  If that will be your best life then absolutely.  If you feel that you would be happier doing something else then do that.

I'm really lazy.

Bravo Little Sister!!!

Well done thread!... I have seen so many who come to this tied tightly to the notion that happiness is only accessed through 100% "passing" ( as a cis-woman)...  This perspective is, I believe ...quite off the mark but, generated by the fears that fill the gaps in their knowledge of what truly lies ahead further along transitions path...

This outlook has caused so much needless anguish and despair but, as with all things in life... perspectives can be revisited as often as we wish... the lens we view each thing in our lives through is ours to choose... I hope this thread will be one of many available that demonstrates that "passing" as simply ourself ...opens the doors to the real connections to others and the world around us that I think most of us are seeking!!!

Love Ya Sis!!! ❤️

A 🙋‍♀️💕🌻

5 months on this journey and, no, I don't pass. In fact, a good friend told me, in the nicest way, that it is hard to tell ... man in woman's clothes or what?

I know who I am. I do get compliments from woman, women openly talk to me more easily, like others have experienced, and I carry myself with confidence.  That's the key.... confidence!

I was travelling last week and checked in at the airport. Well obviously. I handed the girl at the check in my passport and there is the now normal double take. "You look a lot different now," she says. "Yes," I respond, "I came out transgender in November." "Great. What name and pronouns do you want to use?" she asks. "Zoe Catherine and she/ her pronouns," I said.

We finish the check in process, she hands me my boarding pass and says, "Have a good flight,  Zoe."

Mic drop!

I didn't pass but I was respected for my choice. That was way more affirming!!!

Luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Quote from: tgirlamg on May 03, 2019, 09:22:20 PM
Bravo Little Sister!!!

Well done thread!... I have seen so many who come to this tied tightly to the notion that happiness is only accessed through 100% "passing" ( as a cis-woman)...  This perspective is, I believe ...quite off the mark but, generated by the fears that fill the gaps in their knowledge of what truly lies ahead further along transitions path...

This outlook has caused so much needless anguish and despair but, as with all things in life... perspectives can be revisited as often as we wish... the lens we view each thing in our lives through is ours to choose... I hope this thread will be one of many available that demonstrates that "passing" as simply ourself ...opens the doors to the real connections to others and the world around us that I think most of us are seeking!!!

Love Ya Sis!!! ❤️

A 🙋‍♀️💕🌻

Ladies for those of you not aware... may I introduce.... my first mentor..   Ashley YAY !!!!
Hi Sis.  You must be posting off your phone to get all the cool emojis. 

Getting to where I am took a lot.  Me (yep I get some credit ) a great therapist, a group of supportive trans friends and two mentors in particular.  Ashley and Bad >-bleeped-<.  BT has kind of retired from the whole mentoring thing.  But they were both so inspirational in very different ways.

Thanks Sis.  We will talk soon, I was just thinking about Nancy an hour ago when I saw a TV ad for the arboretum. 
I am going to get in touch with her.

Closing thought for others.  Get many different points of view.  Take a little here and a little there.  You do this on your own,  those of us that 'mentor' just throw out our thoughts.  Take the ones that work for you and leave the rest behind.

Quote from: Zoey421 on May 03, 2019, 09:32:43 PM
5 months on this journey and, no, I don't pass. In fact, a good friend told me, in the nicest way, that it is hard to tell ... man in woman's clothes or what?

I know who I am. I do get compliments from woman, women openly talk to me more easily, like others have experienced, and I carry myself with confidence.  That's the key.... confidence!

I was travelling last week and checked in at the airport. Well obviously. I handed the girl at the check in my passport and there is the now normal double take. "You look a lot different now," she says. "Yes," I respond, "I came out transgender in November." "Great. What name and pronouns do you want to use?" she asks. "Zoe Catherine and she/ her pronouns," I said.

We finish the check in process, she hands me my boarding pass and says, "Have a good flight,  Zoe."

Mic drop!

I didn't pass but I was respected for my choice. That was way more affirming!!!

Luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Mic drop is right !!!!  Zoe is in the advanced placement class for early transitioners.  That is how you do it.  Just be YOU.  Don't let all the crap you have absorbed your entire life by society and media make you embarrassed about who you are.  Each of you is beautiful.  Somehow Zoe figured this out right out of the gate.

Thanks for checking in Zoe.  :)

Quote from: tgirlamg on May 03, 2019, 09:22:20 PM
Bravo Little Sister!!!

Well done thread!... I have seen so many who come to this tied tightly to the notion that happiness is only accessed through 100% "passing" ( as a cis-woman)...  This perspective is, I believe ...quite off the mark but, generated by the fears that fill the gaps in their knowledge of what truly lies ahead further along transitions path...

This outlook has caused so much needless anguish and despair but, as with all things in life... perspectives can be revisited as often as we wish... the lens we view each thing in our lives through is ours to choose... I hope this thread will be one of many available that demonstrates that "passing" as simply ourself ...opens the doors to the real connections to others and the world around us that I think most of us are seeking!!!

Love Ya Sis!!! [emoji3590]

A [emoji2320][emoji177][emoji258]

Ashley

As usual right on point...being yourself is the most important part of transition.

Liz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Zoey421 on May 03, 2019, 09:32:43 PM
5 months on this journey and, no, I don't pass. In fact, a good friend told me, in the nicest way, that it is hard to tell ... man in woman's clothes or what?

I know who I am. I do get compliments from woman, women openly talk to me more easily, like others have experienced, and I carry myself with confidence.  That's the key.... confidence!

I was travelling last week and checked in at the airport. Well obviously. I handed the girl at the check in my passport and there is the now normal double take. "You look a lot different now," she says. "Yes," I respond, "I came out transgender in November." "Great. What name and pronouns do you want to use?" she asks. "Zoe Catherine and she/ her pronouns," I said.

We finish the check in process, she hands me my boarding pass and says, "Have a good flight,  Zoe."

Mic drop!

I didn't pass but I was respected for my choice. That was way more affirming!!!

Luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Boom!!!

This is why Kim and I have been amazed from the beginning little sister... You found the secret of life without all the usual angst!!! It is wonderful to see the flowers that start blossoming on day one!!!

Love Ya Little Sister!!!!

A 🙋‍♀️💕🌸

Quote from: KimOct on May 03, 2019, 09:49:23 PM
Ladies for those of you not aware... may I introduce.... my first mentor..   Ashley YAY !!!!
Hi Sis.  You must be posting off your phone to get all the cool emojis. 

Getting to where I am took a lot.  Me (yep I get some credit ) a great therapist, a group of supportive trans friends and two mentors in particular.  Ashley and Bad >-bleeped-<.  BT has kind of retired from the whole mentoring thing.  But they were both so inspirational in very different ways.

Thanks Sis.  We will talk soon, I was just thinking about Nancy an hour ago when I saw a TV ad for the arboretum. 
I am going to get in touch with her.

Closing thought for others.  Get many different points of view.  Take a little here and a little there.  You do this on your own,  those of us that 'mentor' just throw out our thoughts.  Take the ones that work for you and leave the rest behind.

Thanks for the sweet words Sis!!!... Your last paragraph is so true... assemble for yourself what the truths in all this are... then look at them again and again... reshape them as new experience and outlooks are added... what you wrote reminded me of the line by William Blake which I will paraphrase... " One must build their own system of beliefs or be enslaved by the system of another"

Onward we go brave sisters!!!

Ashley 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

PS... Yes... Keep an eye on Nancy for me!!!... You've got her until the big freeze starts again!!! we need to make sure she keeps getting stickers!!! 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

Quote from: LizK on May 03, 2019, 09:54:24 PM
Ashley

As usual right on point...being yourself is the most important part of transition.

Liz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank You for the sweet words Liz!!!...

Hugs!!!

A 🙋‍♀️🌸💕

I don't pass. I look OK for 61 but I'm over 6' tall and big build with a voice like Lemmy. I'm accepted though & that matters more. I hang around with bikers & punks & metalheads, they don't care if you're gay, straight whatever. Once a month I go to the nearest Hell's Angels clubhouse for open nights for none members. They hold doors open for me & pull up chairs.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=084f3778bf210b134fcad1129417eb96&oe=5D661CE8

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=4611fcb38fb5d204cf2fa6854eaffbb8&oe=5D359AB2

Quote from: big kim on May 04, 2019, 01:41:45 AM
I don't pass. I look OK for 61 but I'm over 6' tall and big build with a voice like Lemmy. I'm accepted though & that matters more. I hang around with bikers & punks & metalheads, they don't care if you're gay, straight whatever. Once a month I go to the nearest Hell's Angels clubhouse for open nights for none members. They hold doors open for me & pull up chairs.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=084f3778bf210b134fcad1129417eb96&oe=5D661CE8

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=4611fcb38fb5d204cf2fa6854eaffbb8&oe=5D359AB2

I love this.  I was telling Kirsten in her thread you can be any kind of woman that you are.  There is no need to be a stereotype.  That is the whole point of this journey - being YOU. 

Kim. Absolutely great thread.  Hit its right on the fear of not passing.  I have been wrestling with that question.  It being me that matters not anything else.   I hope to look good, but at my age I need to be clear that it's how I feel that is important.  The stories of recognition and aceepting support are all I have received so far too.  There are many good people out there.
It's can adventure of discovery.   That can be positive. I am still learning the woman I am.  Self acceptance is the key,  I know.   All those years I didn't accept it.  Now It is so liberating.

Gina

Thanks, Ashley. You are a great friend and mentor. [emoji307][emoji847]

When I made the decision  on November 12, 2018, to accept who I am and to stop being hemmed in by my concern for what people think I shoud be, I opened a door that has been shut for 54.5 years. There were cloudy skies, lightening in the distance, but I knew sunshine was somewhere over the horizon.

I made mistakes. I pushed hard at the start and there was no real gradual roll out of being a woman. When a mean gradual, I mean months or years.

I told my wife in a public restaurant. The strategy was she couldn't freak out in public and I was genuinely scared she would do exactly that. I secretly wore panties and make up while away and while at my in-laws on a trip. Both of these instances may have been misguided and they certainly massively upset my wife. Could I have approached this better ... yep, I could have.

Now, my wife and I had a broken marriage anyways (I recently learned she had an affair with my former boss, off and on for years, and both of them deceived and lied to me about it). Coming out was a "reason" to separate and work towards a divorce.

One other thing that is important about me. I had a major depressive episode 13 years ago and have worked diligently to build a tool box of skills to manage my mental health. This may be different than many others who come out and are trying to build that tool box at the same time. I had the skills and confidence built to make the decision to transition and move ar a pace that is comfortable for me.

So, there are consequences to our decisions.

My contribution is this ... you have to love yourself before you can love others and, more importantly,  so others can love you. Fear is a huge barrier to overcome. Fear about what others will think about you. Fear you will lose friends, family, colleagues. Fear you will be harrassed, discriminated against, and bullied. Fear you may be physically or sexually assaulted. Fear you will be marginalized. Fear you may lose your job and benefits.

Some of this may come true, but hopefully not.

Passing is not important. Love and live authentically as you. People will notice and respond positively.

And the final lesson .. when you write a long reply, make sure you know which thread you are responding to.

I know I wondered off topic.

So, passing is not really important if you love yourself first. Some of us will not pass as cis-women, or what society tells us and we internalize what cis-women look like. Love and courage.  Embrace these instead.

Hugs and luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Not passing is a huge fear for most of us.  It was for me.  That fear prevented me from transitioning for decades.  Also it made the first year of transitioning and the early months of full time very difficult.

The fear of not passing is based on many things.  Of course I will espouse my 'enormous wisdom'  :D ;D :D  ( yeah right)
anyway I want to share more about those thoughts later.

Right now it is a spectacular day in Mpls and I have the day off !!!!!  Time to go out and enjoy. 

More of my drivel  :D later.

We were typing together Zoe (not ignoring you but I will read later) daylight is burning.  :)

Quote from: Zoey421 on May 04, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
Thanks, Ashley. You are a great friend and mentor. [emoji307][emoji847]

Now, my wife and I had a broken marriage anyways (I recently learned she had an affair with my former boss, off and on for years, and both of them deceived and lied to me about it). Coming out was a "reason" to separate and work towards a divorce.

One other thing that is important about me. I had a major depressive episode 13 years ago and have worked diligently to build a tool box of skills to manage my mental health. So, there are consequences to our decisions.

My contribution is this ... you have to love yourself before you can love others and, more importantly,  so others can love you. Fear is a huge barrier to overcome. Fear about what others will think about you. Fear you will lose friends, family, colleagues. Fear you will be harrassed, discriminated against, and bullied. Fear you may be physically or sexually assaulted. Fear you will be marginalized. Fear you may lose your job and benefits.

Some of this may come true, but hopefully not.

Hugs and luv Zoe xoxoxo

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Zoe I am so sorry you experienced that betrayal.  You are better off.  As for battling depression well done.  I have been challenged with it myself periodically.

Your paragraph that you begin with ... My contribution..  Is right on the mark.  Thanks for sharing I hope many read those thoughts.

Hugs

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 03, 2019, 02:02:59 AM
Thank you Kim for raising this awesome topic! I am one who feels she may never pass, and was probably destined to present as someone else in public due to fear of not being accepted, but you have opened another dimension for me. I will be watching this thread with great interest as I try to work out my future.

Allie

Hi Allie

I hope you do find the courage to come out as yourself and present yourself in a way that you are comfortable.  You can see by the number of posters in this thread and their great attitudes that it can be done. Hold your head up and just be you. I no longer care what others think and am quite often amused by their reactions.

Take care

Liz


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So my day out and about on a spectacular day is complete.  Now I am home relaxing and wanted to continue my story about not passing and finding joy in our lives when we don't.

So I spent the day going to the horse racing track where I work on Sundays as a poker dealer.  It was packed.  In addition to it being opening weekend for the horse-ys  ;D they had betting on the Kentucky Derby which was simulcast on the jumbo-tron.  The place was packed.  Parking lots were overflowing.

I knew it would be packed.  Many of the women wear those big floppy derby day hats.  Didn't want to try to pull that off but I debated wearing a big flowing Maxi skirt.  I finally did.  ( This sounds like the cross dressing sub forums  ;) )

Anyway finally getting on in the story I must go backwards.

For 15 years I was a regular poker player there before I worked there.  Most people knew me.  I was very well known.
When I transitioned I didn't go back for a year.  I was terrified.  It is mostly guys that play poker.

A friend kept asking me 'are you ever going back'.  I stalled, I made excuses, finally one day I thought - I am not going to hide anymore.  I walked in the door and my knees were shaking as I walked.  I mean literally shaking.  I was terrified.

People were surprised.  A handful had heard through the grapevine but many didn't believe it.  I made the rounds and it was a blur.  I was so scared.  Then the operations mgr told me her niece used to be her nephew.  We talked and I felt better.  Then she asked if I was at the same job.  I had just quit.  She offered me a spot in a training class for poker dealers and here I am.  I only deal part time now but I am still there.

So today it wasn't just the regulars.  About 300 people know me as the trans poker dealer and I am only a surprise to newcomers.  But today there were 20,000 people.  I got some stares, not many.  I was sitting outside on a bench and this woman comes up and starts talking to me.  By the end we were Facebook friends.  :D  I couldn't get rid of her.

My story is that a couple of years ago I was terrified to walk into this place.  Now I get hugs, compliments and have real friends.  And think of the hundreds of people that now know a transwoman.  I was yucking it up with this 70 year old guy while I took his money.  ;D  ( I won $44 for the day at poker )

I went outside and watched a few races.  It was beautiful out.

Look at my pictures.  I am no beauty.  I don't pass.  But people like me.  I was terrified. Now I enjoy it and I get lots of great attention.  Everybody knows my name and I can't walk around without people saying Hi.

If someone as scared as me can do this you can do this too.

Going to take a break and come back and talk about where the fear comes from.  It really is all in our heads.

(https://i.imgur.com/eiUKZFa.jpg)
The racetrack

(https://i.imgur.com/qNMMgSu.jpg)
Me watching the races

(https://i.imgur.com/I3l45ji.jpg)
The poker players

(https://i.imgur.com/rf0NwVq.jpg)
Me taking their money  :D ;D

Quote from: LizK on May 04, 2019, 07:28:28 PM
Hi Allie

I hope you do find the courage to come out as yourself and present yourself in a way that you are comfortable.  You can see by the number of posters in this thread and their great attitudes that it can be done. Hold your head up and just be you. I no longer care what others think and am quite often amused by their reactions.

Take care

Liz


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Thanks for your encouragement Liz. It drives me nuts being a prisoner in my own house, and I know I have to break out, but it's not just me I worry about. Most people who know me recognise my female side. I am 'one of the girls' at work, and my daughters 'second Mum', so I know I will get support from those close to me. My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows. My daughter's in laws would likely react badly and put pressure on her to keep me away from my grandchildren. I cherish the relationships with my wife, daughter, and grandkids, and would not do anything to jeopardise them. I have been on this journey for over 60 years, so I'm hoping another year or so on HRT will soften me enough so my wife and others will feel more comfortable and accept me.

In the end it's about what is important to you. Right now, my family trumps my needs, and time will tell if we can find a workable existence. I'm just 2 months HRT, and have seen no change to my very masculine physique and facial features, so I'm willing to give it some more time to develop. I honestly believed I would never come out, but this thread by Kim has really opened my mind. I know I won't pass, but now I'm planning to be me at some stage. You ladies are life changers!

Allie

Oh, and Kim, I dream of one day looking as good as you at the races!!

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 04, 2019, 09:01:45 PM
Thanks for your encouragement Liz. It drives me nuts being a prisoner in my own house, and I know I have to break out, but it's not just me I worry about. Most people who know me recognise my female side. I am 'one of the girls' at work, and my daughters 'second Mum', so I know I will get support from those close to me. My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows. My daughter's in laws would likely react badly and put pressure on her to keep me away from my grandchildren. I cherish the relationships with my wife, daughter, and grandkids, and would not do anything to jeopardise them. I have been on this journey for over 60 years, so I'm hoping another year or so on HRT will soften me enough so my wife and others will feel more comfortable and accept me.

In the end it's about what is important to you. Right now, my family trumps my needs, and time will tell if we can find a workable existence. I'm just 2 months HRT, and have seen no change to my very masculine physique and facial features, so I'm willing to give it some more time to develop. I honestly believed I would never come out, but this thread by Kim has really opened my mind. I know I won't pass, but now I'm planning to be me at some stage. You ladies are life changers!

Allie

Hi Allie

I understand you wanting to do everything you can to keep your family intact. You are so right about it being what's important to you ...you are the only person qualified to make the decisions about your relationship with your family.

Reading posts like yours is what makes me stay on at Susan's...seeing the incredible men and women slowly emerge from their own darkness is such an uplifting experience. I am so glad you are now able to see the possibility of a future as yourself is fantastic.

Liz


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Hi Allie, I am glad I gave you cause to think about possibilities.  That is why I am on Susan's.  Three years ago I was a scared person about to embark on a life changing transition and others that were on this path before me helped me figure things out.

I didn't always agree with them but often I did.  My views evolved over the next few years but what they did for me was ask me tough questions about myself, what I wanted and why.  It is from that background that I base my approach.

I don't ask tough questions to judge anyone.  Rather I throw out ideas to consider.  Keep the ones that fit and reject the rest.

That said my approach to my friends and family has always been, you love me or you don't.  If knowing the real me causes you to turn away then we were never really together as friends or family.  My one exception to this is a spouse or serious significant other.  Is a woman that married a man being unloving by not being comfortable now being married to a woman?  I don't think so.  Fortunately some couples do stay together.  Read the significant others thread.  Moonflower is a great example.  I know quite a few in real life also.  But many times it can't work.  It is nobody's fault.

But I don't think anyone can be happy or make their spouse happy if they are hiding who they really are.  Living with an unhappy person leads to one thing...... two unhappy people.

I hope you and your wife find happiness as a couple or as two friends that still care for each other.  But you have to be happy in order to make her happy. 

I am frequently guilty of derailing threads.  Just ask Moni  :D  so I am fine with the tangents.  Keep them coming.
IMO it is up to the original poster to bring it back to the topic if they choose to.  So I will.  Additional tangents are welcomed.

Why are we so afraid of not passing?  Plenty of reasons.  We have spent our lifetime living in the same society as everyone else.  We have seen the comedies about men in dresses.  The jokes, mean spirited or not if you are the butt of a joke it affects you.

Most people can take a well intention-ed joke.  I just made one today.  Someone was talking about not conforming and I said well I always try to fit in.  Everybody laughed. 

But knowing how our society has viewed men in dresses over the years seeps into our consciousness.  Think of Milton Berle (dating myself) or Klinger on MASH, Tom Hanks in that Bosom Buddies sitcom, recently I saw Leonard on Big Bang Theory wearing a tutu.  We have been taught that a man in a dress is to be laughed at.

But people are laughing at a ridiculous idea.  I just watched Happy Gilmore.  If you don't know the movie Carl Weathers is a golf pro that had his hand bit off by an Alligator.  It was so stupid that I laughed.  There is a guy that works in my office building with one hand.  Would I laugh at him?  Of course not.

There is nothing wrong with who we are.  We were born this way.  Just like gay people were born gay.  Finally society is becoming OK with gay people for the most part.

We are at the beginning of the transgender revolution.  It is happening before our eyes.  My Mother told me when I first came out 'why didn't you tell me?'   Well if I told her in the 1970s she would have tried to cure me.  Now she loves having a daughter.

The world is changing.  The time is now.  Forget about my story here.  Read the posts above by people like KathyLauren, LizK, Ashley (tgirlamg) Zoey and others. 

Living this life is not scary.  Getting here is VERY SCARY.  You know why?  Because it's all in our own heads.
It is much better on the other side than you think.

Allie wrote: "My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows."

I heard the exact same concern from my ex-wife (we are in the process of legal separation and divorce). Here is what I learned. My wife is embarrassed because: (a) people will judge her as a poor wife; (b) that her social standing in the community will diminish because her "husband" wears dresses as a woman; (c) people will make jokes about her; (d) people will think the family is weird,  deranged, immoral?

Allie, your wife is concerned about her, not you. What if your child came out transgendered? Would the same concern apply?

Marriages are a complicated union between two people who manage between being a couple all of the time and being independent,  ensuring you dont give up either end of the spectrum. Successful marriages should be based on trust, empathy, forgiveness, and, most importantly,  respect! (So says the woman who has failed twice)  If your spouse loves and respects you, hopefully this is because of the person inside, your morals, ethics, and decency, not because of how you look on the outside or how you dress.

By saying she is supportive that you identify as a woman as along as know one else knows is controlling and pardon me here if I over step the boundary, emotionally abusive. Shut you away, deny you your dignity, control how you live...

My apologies for being blunt and I am probably saying these things because that is how I felt.

So, believe in you and love yourself, live a life that is fulfilling to you and only you. You will be called selfish. Exactly, for the correct reasons. Your wife is being selfish,  for the wrong reasons.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't be understanding of how your wife feels. You absolutley should. Here is something that resonated with me told to me by my ex-wife: friends and family who have known you for decades are grieving the loss of the old you, the image of you in their mind. They, too, are going through a process. Your wife is probably experiencing "shock and denial" at this point. Look up the 5 or 7 stages of grieving, It may help contextualize how your wife is processing your transition.

However at the end of the day, transition for you and only you.

There is a entire community here to suppprt you. Be brave. Be courageous. Be you.

Zoe

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Quote from: Zoey421 on May 04, 2019, 11:07:53 PM
Allie wrote: "My wife is terribly worried that my outing would embarrass her so much it would end our relationship. She is supportive of me provided no one else knows."

I heard the exact same concern from my ex-wife (we are in the process of legal separation and divorce). Here is what I learned. My wife is embarrassed because: (a) people will judge her as a poor wife; (b) that her social standing in the community will diminish because her "husband" wears dresses as a woman; (c) people will make jokes about her; (d) people will think the family is weird,  deranged, immoral?

Allie, your wife is concerned about her, not you. What if your child came out transgendered? Would the same concern apply?

However at the end of the day, transition for you and only you.

There is a entire community here to suppprt you. Be brave. Be courageous. Be you.

Zoe

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Allie I don't want to hurt you or harshly judge your wife whom I am sure you love but I must agree with Zoe.
We all have shortcomings as people.  Your wife is showing hers.

To be fair to most spouses of transgender people are not gay or bisexual.  Most of us here are obviously MtF.  Wives of those reading are most likely attracted to men.  If we are planning to live as women that is a lot to ask of them.  However your wife is not talking about her possible lack of attraction to you as a woman.  She is talking about embarrassment, hiding and what people will think.  Read that last sentence.  That is shame.  You have zero reason to be ashamed of who you are.

Shame of our loved one is not the same as lacking the desire to be a couple with someone of the same sex.

Therefore I am sorry but I must agree with Zoe.  :'(

Zoe and Kim, there is no need to be sorry, you are both right in that she fears for her own wellbeing. I am not ashamed of who I am.  Let me explain why I still respect her fears. She hasn't had a lifetime of learning about transgender, and doesn't have a support resource such as this. Like most people, she doesn't understand transgender, and lack of knowledge breeds fear. She believes, as I did, that people will point and laugh. She fears the reaction of her friends and family. She married me and is committed to be my partner, even though I am actively changing. If I could 100% pass, I believe she would fear it less, but, like most people, she fears me standing out as different, or as some may view it, freakish. Yes, they are her fears for herself, but as I am committed to her, I must regard those fears. I believe that for the commitment and support she has shown, I owe her a couple more years to learn and grow with my changes.

As I said before, it is all about what is most important to you. For me, I would give my life for my loved ones, so a little time and education seems a reasonable price to pay to keep them with me. We are all different. We are all changing. For you, the importance is on being yourself, and I respect that. I have a really strong maternal instinct, so my focus is my family, and then me. This thread has changed my outlook for myself, but not my priorities. I'm hoping I can get through this transition, and now maybe be as a non passing me, and still keep my loved ones close. It may not work, but I would feel terrible if I didn't give it my best shot.

It is awesome that you pass on your experiences, and it really does help many of us, but please remember, we are all different, with different needs, circumstances, beliefs, and backgrounds. I do respect where you are coming from, but ask you to also respect where others are coming from.

Allie

Allie, you need to do what is right for you. My experience is different... different marriage circumstances and different life stories. I respect your opinion and putting family first.

I hope you get the support you need and that you lead your life as you need.

I can hear the struggle inside you. Keep being positive and you will find the path that works for you.

Remember the concept of mourning the loss of the old you ... help her through her process so she can eventually see the shining light of the future that you see.

All of us have a barriers to overcome. For me, it is not my wife, but my 20y son. I need to understand his journey like you are trying to understand your wife's journey.

Hopefully that helps.

Hugs Zoe



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Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 05, 2019, 01:09:34 AM
Zoe and Kim, there is no need to be sorry, you are both right in that she fears for her own wellbeing. I am not ashamed of who I am.  Let me explain why I still respect her fears. She hasn't had a lifetime of learning about transgender, and doesn't have a support resource such as this. Like most people, she doesn't understand transgender, and lack of knowledge breeds fear. She believes, as I did, that people will point and laugh. She fears the reaction of her friends and family. She married me and is committed to be my partner, even though I am actively changing. If I could 100% pass, I believe she would fear it less, but, like most people, she fears me standing out as different, or as some may view it, freakish. Yes, they are her fears for herself, but as I am committed to her, I must regard those fears. I believe that for the commitment and support she has shown, I owe her a couple more years to learn and grow with my changes.

As I said before, it is all about what is most important to you. For me, I would give my life for my loved ones, so a little time and education seems a reasonable price to pay to keep them with me. We are all different. We are all changing. For you, the importance is on being yourself, and I respect that. I have a really strong maternal instinct, so my focus is my family, and then me. This thread has changed my outlook for myself, but not my priorities. I'm hoping I can get through this transition, and now maybe be as a non passing me, and still keep my loved ones close. It may not work, but I would feel terrible if I didn't give it my best shot.

It is awesome that you pass on your experiences, and it really does help many of us, but please remember, we are all different, with different needs, circumstances, beliefs, and backgrounds. I do respect where you are coming from, but ask you to also respect where others are coming from.

Allie

Allie I think you stated your position very well and I respect every word you said.  I am glad that you understand that Zoe and I mean no disrespect and none is taken by your reply.  ( I read this again a couple more times and maybe you did think we were disrespecting you - at the start you mentioned no need to be sorry but at the end it sounded like you may have thought we were being disrespectful.  Regardless, that was not my intent and I am confident it was also not Zoe's )

I always say not everyone has to transition.  This is a choice.  We must all weigh what matters.  You appear to want to transition.  I am sure your wife loves you.  I truly hope it works out.  Hopefully you can educate her regarding what being transgender is all about.

My big concern for you is the embarrassment that she believes that she would feel and the need for you to keep it hidden.  That is no way to live.  But you make good points and this is your life to live and no one else's including those of us that offer our opinion.

That is all we do here is offer suggestions, insight and opinion.  It is up to the reader to decide if it fits for them.
I tend to be a bit strong in my opinions and will continue to do so.  That type of motivation is what helped me to transition however it is never my intent to criticize someone else's desires or beliefs.  Only to give my opinion and something for them to consider.

From your note I don't believe you were offended but if you or anyone reading was I apologize.  Not for what I said, I believe those things, but for making anyone feel that they are being criticized.  I don't know everything and never claimed to.

Keep sharing and we will keep trying to support you.  And TALK to your wife.

Hopefully Allie, Zoe and I are good. 

I would like to hear stories from other people that don't pass about how their daily lives are now.  Also I would like to hear from those that their fear of not passing is holding them back from transition.

Any of you non-posters want to give it a try?  We don't bite and I am pretty sure nobody is searching your computer.  :)

Kim, all of good. I appreciate your forthrightness and honesty.

Zoe

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Quote from: KimOct on May 05, 2019, 01:50:47 AM
Hopefully Allie, Zoe and I are good. 

From my part we are absolutely good! Just needed you to see my situation and know there are many other perspectives as well. I am terribly thick skinned, have been a moderator on forums full of aggressive people, and have a customer service background where I took the most difficult customers. This forum is a dream with the very nice people I have encountered thus far.

Another perspective on passing. I present at work as a man, albeit with quite long hair and other give aways, but everyone interacts with me like I was a woman. I have a high level of empathy, I cry easily, I'm not pushy, and care greatly about others (including animals in our care). I am the one who washes the dishes in the lunch room. I bring baked goods, do any sewing jobs, and take home the tea towels to wash (we take turns). We work with children and I take on the upset, handicapped, or just plain difficult kids, and have great success at making them happy, or at least join in. The ladies I work with confide in me and value my opinion on many things only women should know. They know I raised my two children, from 3 and 5 yo, by myself, so I am included in mothering discussions. My boss addresses us collectively as 'girls'.  My point is that acceptance is as much about what we do as how we look. The problem is that it only works with exposure, whereas we can be assessed on looks immediately.

Allie

Great post Allie.  As someone with 2 autistic children I thank you for what you do.  Also you make a good point about how we are perceived.  Looks really shouldn't matter unfortunately our own perception of our looks is what causes many of us, including myself, to not live as our authentic selves.  My own perception of my looks prevented me for 55 years which is why I started the topic.

Kim, I just want to post a slight thread derailment and mention I loved your hair on racetrack day  ;D

Nikki I hate it when people interrupt to give me compliments  ;D :D   Thanks I appreciate it.  Actually my hair looked much better before going out into the wind.  I really should have went to the ladies room and fixed it before starting to play poker.  Gotta look pretty for the guys.  :o :D

Nice to see you. 

Kim looking at your pix I see a woman. If I hadn't read about you I would never have known

AS some one that never expects to pass (but have been told I do) I must say I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about me, but like you say men say you have guts and women are more than friendly . Off to the pub now, best hair and makeup time!!

Yes amazing though this was going to be hateful rhetoric like transgender circle jerk on >-bleeped-< rude they're  but yes I feel that way 2 thank you for sharing

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So I saw my therapist today who is amazing.  A fair amount of my insight has found its roots with her.  I am having a very tough time at work for the last few days and really beating myself up so the timing was good.

But related to this topic, at least loosely, we talked about gender roles and conforming to those roles and expectations both physically and mentally.

I like some vestiges of my pre- transition life.  The examples we discussed were there is a co-ed softball team at work.
I used to be a big 'stick' at softball for years.  Batted clean up played 1st base, I could really crush the ball deep. I loved that.  But she gave the example of a female softball player.  The local University U of MN has a good team.  She said is their big hitter any less female?

She went on to talk about my nails.  I do a great job on my own nails.  No need for a salon.  She said 'you love to hit a home run and you love to do your nails' that is all part of who you are.  I thought about that for awhile.

We are who we are.  We don't need to fit into a box.  Not just what we enjoy or our sexuality or our appearance.
I am Kim as ONE person.  All of this gender stuff is nothing more than a societal construct that has been entrenched over decades and centuries.

Being our true selves is what matters.  We don't have to act the way others expect, like the things we are 'supposed'
to like or look the way we are supposed to.  All we really need to do as live as who we are.

And a lot of people in the world still like us anyway. 

I was feeling very discouraged at work today and a straight male worker gave me a hug.  Others checked on me to try and cheer me up. 

There is a joy in not passing.  That joy is that people get to know the real you.  And usually if you let your guard down most of them will like you.

That doesn't make my work problem go away but the problem of hiding who I am is sure gone.

Passing an interesting topic.

At this point I can easily submerge myself and no one would be the wiser. Sometimes I choose to do so. Sometimes I choose to out myself as trans because... I 'm not ashamed of being me and trans is part of that.

I suppose I'm lucky that I have 'passing privilege' BUT it didn't bother me when I didn't either. I think we can get so hung up on passing we forget that we have the unique opportunity to be ourselves and actually enjoy life.

There is no model male or female. Look around any busy public place. There are so many different shapes. sizes, ethnicities, ages, etc that it really doesn't matter if you appear 'male' or 'female' because you only have to be binary if you choose to be!

Thanks Kim and you other posters for this great and highly relevant thread! This is so timely for me. I just found it today (thanks for the cross reference Kim).

This is exactly where I am in my own process. I can relate to Allie above. My wife and I have agreed that I will not start HRT, and she is Ok with me wearing anything I want. We are very close and mutually supportive. We love to travel together and spend time outdoors. We've been together for 38 years and value our relationship. Foregoing HRT is a sacrifice for me, and I hold out hope that she may eventually come around. But I want to stay together, and crossdressing does pretty well to alleviate my dysphoria.  So...long derailing paragraph complete lol.

I am pretty comfortable out in public dressed as a woman but not bothering with makeup. I am literally a man in women's clothes. But it's Ok, and I rarely get so much as a look. The past few weeks I've been attending my twice-weekly weight lifting class at the YMCA fully crossdressed in female workout clothes.  My hair is now below shoulder length and this week I began wearing it tied back with a scrunchie (I still have to wear a femme cap to cover the top of my bald head, which they've all seen for the 3 years we've been in this class together). I have to add that the class is 80% women, as is the instructor. A few long glances to check me out, but not a word, and people still talk to me the same as ever. As many of you have said, it's the fear that holds us back, but once we take the plunge it's no problem.

Just this morning I got an email from Quora (I have indicated an interest on that site in crossdressing, so I get notifications when somebody answers a question on that topic). It's not a support site, more a Q&A one. (I dont think this violates the TOS since its a general interest site unrelated to gender.) Anyway, somebody asked something about crossdressing without passing, and there were so many positive responses just like here. We are not alone! There are many of us! You can do this!

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Randy, you have to do what is most important to you, but things can change. My wife has accepted me crossdressing for 20 years as it kept my dysphoria under control, but last year I started to get more depressed until I became unwell. After the medicos ran out of ideas, it became obvious my dysphoria was getting on top of me and my therapist recommended I transition. The change since starting HRT has been amazing. My illness was resolved within a couple of weeks after 8 months of suffering, and I felt amazing. Thankfully, my wife recognised my health was on the line, and has supported my transition, albeit taking it slowly. Last night she was feeling my breast development and joked she could become a lesbian above the waist. I am happy how this is developing, as I see she is evolving with me, but I made her part of the decision process so she shares ownership. Bottom line is I'd hate to lose her and be on my own, and have to start over again financially in my 60's.

Allie

Quote from: Allie Jayne on May 17, 2019, 02:30:11 AM
Randy, you have to do what is most important to you, but things can change. My wife has accepted me crossdressing for 20 years as it kept my dysphoria under control, but last year I started to get more depressed until I became unwell. After the medicos ran out of ideas, it became obvious my dysphoria was getting on top of me and my therapist recommended I transition. The change since starting HRT has been amazing. My illness was resolved within a couple of weeks after 8 months of suffering, and I felt amazing. Thankfully, my wife recognised my health was on the line, and has supported my transition, albeit taking it slowly. Last night she was feeling my breast development and joked she could become a lesbian above the waist. I am happy how this is developing, as I see she is evolving with me, but I made her part of the decision process so she shares ownership. Bottom line is I'd hate to lose her and be on my own, and have to start over again financially in my 60's.

Allie

This reply is not only to Allie and Randy (primarily I guess ) but to everyone with a spouse.  Everyone with a spouse has an added challenge is this decision.  I do not begrudge anyone their choice regarding transition - the whole point of this is to be happy - however I do think it is wise to have an honest conversation as both Allie and Randy have.
And hopefully you can find peace.

This really should be in the other topic THE Decision but of course there is some overlap as with everything else in the crazy, interesting, wonderful world of being trans.

I know this is not a music site but please indulge me.  Both of these songs have helped me feel better about how I look out in the world and hopefully they will do the same for someone else. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6mM_zfxwE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfyFTzZDMM

Great songs Kim.  I want to learn the first.

What you said about the honest conversation-- Really conversations is so right on.  I started my transition by sitting. Talking, and listening to my wife.  I am so amazed still that she though stunned, has been so supportive. We go to therapy. together our coversations are daily. We are staying together.  I know I am blessed in this my best friend is on the journey with me.

I have offered to go slow, she says no.  She knows my happiness lies on this path.  Se sees already the change in me.  Somehow we did good.  It all stems from our loving communication.

Whether I pass down the road or not becomes less important.  I am happier and more at peace than I imagined.  Everyone has their own situation. I know.  Thanks for this great thread. It made me think deeper.

Hugs,   Gina

It's official, we are off topic  :D  but that's OK this stuff is important.  Admittedly I am post divorce (not due to gender )
but it just makes sense to me that the only way a relationship can be healthy is to truly and honestly communicate.

Relationships deteriorate for many reasons far more diverse than this issue but in order to keep them healthy we have to talk to each other.  If one partner is miserable then it's pretty likely then they will both become miserable. 

Couples do stay together, which is wonderful.  And some don't but staying together unhappy makes no sense to me.

Find happiness, hopefully together.

I would love to hear somebody jump in that their fear of how they will look is a major hurdle in deciding to transition or even just go out in public.  It was by far my biggest fear.  It took a lot of work but I eventually figured it out with a lot of help from others and also by helping myself.

Don't know of any "joy" in not passing, but resignation may apply.
As a giant, I know I'll never ever in a million years be seen as anything but a super tall dude.
Size 16 feet, 5'20"
no I never played basketball, did you play miniature golf?
15 years hrt, still pass awesomely as a guy without anyone ever seeing differently.
If I were to go out dressed to the 9s with makeup on...same.

Quote from: Barri on May 18, 2019, 03:05:59 AM
Don't know of any "joy" in not passing, but resignation may apply.
As a giant, I know I'll never ever in a million years be seen as anything but a super tall dude.
Size 16 feet, 5'20"
no I never played basketball, did you play miniature golf?
15 years hrt, still pass awesomely as a guy without anyone ever seeing differently.
If I were to go out dressed to the 9s with makeup on...same.

5' 20"  I like that.

OK well resignation is better than shame.  Also living openly is better than hiding.  Here is the thing about goals of any type.  Even if you only make it part way there it is still better than where you would be if you did not try at all.

Living openly is the most important thing IMO.  If you can do so and find peace that is a good thing.  Joy is icing on the cake.

If you dont feel like you pass give it time. We are often our own worst critics, try figuring out if the hair style works for your facial type. And when it comes to clothes get a wardrobe that flatters your body type. also your voice and mannerisms/body posture (I cant stress these enough). and always remember we are here for you :)

Barri,

I know how you feel. I'm 5'16" and weigh 19.6 stone right now. I'm taking steps to drop my weight way down though so at least that's something. My voice is the thing that I think will forever keep me from passing. I sound just about like Sam Elliott. However I'm going to try my best to fit in. My mama told me that as long as you try your hardest at something then you're never going to fail. So ladies like you and I may face a hard road, as long as we try our best we'll be fine.

By the way I thought I was the only person in the world who listed my height that way. When I was in college I confused one of my professors with the 5'16" line...and she was a math teacher. LOLOLOL

Hang in there my friend!!

Lexxi

Great stories ladies thanks for sharing  :)  I work 2 jobs. One at the racetrack/poker room I mentioned at the start of this thread and also at a large office.  4000 people in the corporate campus and 330 at my company on our floor.

So I am seen by A LOT  of people.  Once in awhile I pass in public during brief interactions ( I can usually tell ) but anyone in my office or the employees at the poker room or any player at my poker table when I am dealing KNOW I am trans.  My voice, my height, my body build and oh yeah my face.

Most people are very nice.  And after a few minutes of interaction they seem to relax and realize I am just another person. 

We sweat this stuff about passing WAY TOO MUCH.  And I can make a case for why passing is not really that great a thing.  I know stealth people are reading this and it is obviously a personal choice for those that can be stealth if they choose to do so.  But as someone that doesn't pass I don't have to worry about what I say or if people will find out.
They know.  And many ask polite and intelligent questions.

Do I wish I was 5'6" with a great figure and beautiful face?  Of course I do.  Most women do.  But the old saying about making lemons into lemonade really holds true regarding not passing.  Is it ideal?  No.  Does it have some benefits?
ABSOLUTELY.

I was going to end this with the previous sentence but as I reached for the mouse to click I remembered something.
The night before last I went out for Margaritas with two women from work a 24 and a 25 year old.  Not too many 58 year old men get to do that  :D  unless they are paying.  :D  and neither do 58 year old women for that matter.

People do like us.  Stop hiding and find out.

Quote from: Lexxi on May 23, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Barri,

I know how you feel. I'm 5'16" and weigh 19.6 stone right now. I'm taking steps to drop my weight way down though so at least that's something. My voice is the thing that I think will forever keep me from passing. I sound just about like Sam Elliott. However I'm going to try my best to fit in. My mama told me that as long as you try your hardest at something then you're never going to fail. So ladies like you and I may face a hard road, as long as we try our best we'll be fine.

By the way I thought I was the only person in the world who listed my height that way. When I was in college I confused one of my professors with the 5'16" line...and she was a math teacher. LOLOLOL

Hang in there my friend!!

Lexxi

Lexxi, you look great if the picture is you.
I weigh 260lbs...heaviest ever, have tried changing food intake to lose weight...nothing.
I think it's likely harder with estrogen being the dominant hormone.
Sometimes when people cock their head after hearing I'm 5'20" I modify with "or 4'32" if you prefer"  had doctors, PhDs, and lawyers fail the quiz, mechanics and machinists nearly always get it.
At least at your height you can walk through most doors, I duck even in commercial settings out of habit, 38 years since getting to this level at 17....have the noggin top scars to prove it.
Sam Elliot has an awesome voice btw, mine is more like Sam Walston....but I can sing just like Tennesee Ernie Ford.

Quote from: KimOct on May 18, 2019, 08:52:25 AM
5' 20"  I like that.

OK well resignation is better than shame.  Also living openly is better than hiding.  Here is the thing about goals of any type.  Even if you only make it part way there it is still better than where you would be if you did not try at all.

Living openly is the most important thing IMO.  If you can do so and find peace that is a good thing.  Joy is icing on the cake.

Thanks, but I don't live openly in any kind of female guise. I have no shame in who/what I am however, I just see no point in confusing the littles of the world (that's most humans, not meaning kids).
I'm in no way stuck on daily presentation, hence the resignation. I just accept that giants are what those like me will be perceived as regardless the situation. I'm at peace.

Being at peace is the goal of this journey.  Truly being at peace.  Not saying 'oh well nothing I can do about it"  That is what I said most of my life.  I knew I would never physically be the woman I wanted to be.  Too tall, too built, too masculine of a face.   Etc etc.

Am I totally at peace?  Eh probably not being brutally honest.  I still wish I looked like what I dreamed of.  But I am more at peace than I used to be.  I am no longer hiding my secret and I am absolutely convinced that this journey has made me a better person.  I see the world and other people in different ways than I used to.  Also I have different experiences than I used to.  Some of them are unpleasant.  I was called he by 3 different people this week (far more than in quite awhile ) but of my new experiences there have been far more positive ones than negative ones.

For those that are fearful of this journey because they fear not passing I assure you not passing is really not the terrible thing we fear.  And much of the time it really is fun.  This is from someone that used to be afraid to be seen anywhere.  I never thought this would be fun, but it truly is..... well almost all the time.